BANGOR, Maine — After discussing concerns about the behavior of some of the people who frequent Pickering Square, members of a City Council panel opted not to move the Community Connector bus system hub to another location.
Moving the hub might have required a $25,000-plus study and resulted in logistical problems for buses coming from routes throughout Bangor and its outlying partner communities, namely Brewer, Veazie, Orono, Old Town, Hampden and the University of Maine.
Instead, members of the government operations committee directed staff to come up with alternate solutions, such as ordinances that could help curb the kinds of activities that have been the source of complaints in recent months.
Some suggestions made Tuesday night by city councilors and others ranged from banning smoking, which Councilor Patricia Blanchette thought might reduce loitering, and blasting string quartet and other classical music, which Councilor Geoffrey Gratwick noted effectively drove bad elements away in some major cities.
Councilor Ben Sprague said that Bangor might try imposing fines for foul language, a tack that Middleborough, Mass., recently took.
In recent months, downtown residents, merchants and visitors have expressed concerns about foul language, public intoxication, panhandling, brawls and other less-than-ideal conduct.
Some businesspeople have told Bangor police and city officials that they have been asked to escort scared workers and customers to the parking garage, especially after the sun sets. Merchants worry that the problems in Pickering Square are driving customers away.
While many of those engaging in the problem behavior are homeless, transients or suffering from mental illness, substance abuse or both, not all of them are bus riders, Community Connector Joe McNeil said during Tuesday night’s meeting.
“We have some very good people who ride the bus,” he said, adding that city officials should not blame all the problems plaguing Pickering Square on the presence of the bus transfer hub.
Among the downtown representatives on hand for the committee’s discussion was Maine Discovery Museum Executive Director Niles Parker. One of the incidents he brought forward occurred late last summer, when police were in the children’s museum looking for a possible armed intruder.
That, Parker noted, isn’t good for business. He said some potential patrons have said they won’t visit because of the atmosphere in the parking garage and public square.
Bangor police Lt. Steve Hunt said the area is staffed as a beat but that demand for police resources has “never been higher.” He said that while annoying, some of the problem behaviors plaguing Pickering Square, such as public intoxication, aren’t against the law so there is little police can do to curb them.
Just put a swat team there to tase who ever walks funny, looks funny or even too loud!
Maybe bulldoze the area and put in parking spaces with meters. That should do it.
“… and blasting string quartet and other classical music, which Councilor Geoffrey Gratwick noted effectively drove bad elements away in some major cities.”
That was a good laugh. Is that guy for real? Maybe the economy can be fixed by blasting string quartet and classical music. Who the hell votes for these nutty professors?
The phrase “bad elements” jumped out at me. The people they want to entice downtown aren’t the ones who would be hanging outside the bus stop, the Freese Building, and the New Waverly.
You’re right, who is he to decide what “bad elements” are. One person’s “bad elements” might be another person’s way of life.
One criteria must be an aversion to Long Hair music.
Just blast an Adele album, that will make the ears bleed.
Actually, this seems to work for boarders, buskers and ‘youth’.
“try imposing fines for foul language”… talk about violating our First Amendment right as United States citizens!!! It’s freedom of speech! Ban smoking from PUBLIC property? So now all smokers cause problems? Or maybe all trouble-makers smoke cigarettes??? How about banning all elderly people who live in the Freese’s building or other relatively close homes (considering they’re obviously most of the complaints) from living down town? Change the zoning laws to prevent residency within the down town city limits! Way to go Bangor… I’m sure this will all go over well! *rolls her eyes* :/
Its not impeding on anyone’s freedom of speech. When its loud and constant, is disrupting someone else’s peace and that IS against the law. And any city/town at any time can choose to make smoking any certain public areas a no-no. You are jumping to tantrum state by saying that the city council is saying that “smokers cause problems” or that “trouble-makers smoke cigarettes”. Neither is entirely true, but also neither is entirely false. If smoking was to be banned in Pickering Square, a LARGE portion of the loitering that goes on would be gone, and that is a fact. The city council is not profiling or being biases, they are being practical, and I am on their side for once. I use the city bus system and I at times dread the part of when the bus arrives downtown. I myself smoke and it really irks me to no end when as soon as I pull out a cigarette, I have people that hang out down there bombarding me, asking me if they can have one. The language is out of hand, the yelling and screaming, and the harassment of bus passengers and drivers is also. When I was a PJCC student in 1998, myself and other students petitioned center staff to make Pickering Square an off-limits area for PJCC students and the staff agreed. Too many students would come back to campus drunk and/or high after hanging out there, and we wanted it to stop. Pickering Square is meant to be a nice park-like area for folks to sit and enjoy nice weather, chat, read, and what not but no one does that anymore because of the current situation. It needs to change and its about time something gets done about it.
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Its not impeding on anyone’s freedom of speech. When its loud and constant, is disrupting someone else’s peace and that IS against the law.” and ”
The language is out of hand, the yelling and screaming, and the harassment of bus passengers and drivers is also.” The point you’re trying to make is rather contradicting in itself. Let me break this down for you… “foul language” AKA swearing or obscenities, is NOT illegal, in fact it does constitute as “Freedom of Speech”.
On the other hand, anyone being disruptive to other people IS against the law. It’s called “Disorderly Conduct”. That’s where the yelling and screaming or harassment of any person would come into factor. I agree with the aspect that this type of behavior should not be tolerated ANYWHERE not JUST in Pickering Square. There is CLEARLY a difference between the choice of words and HOW they are spoken.
“Pickering Square is meant to be a nice park-like area for folks to sit and enjoy nice weather, chat, read, and what not but no one does that anymore because of the current situation.” They have issues with Loitering. Definitions of loitering:
verb
1.to linger aimlessly or as if aimless in or about a place: to loiter around the bus terminal.2.to move in a slow, idle manner, making purposeless stops inthe course of a trip, journey, errand, etc.: to loiter on the way to work.3.to waste time or dawdle over work: He loiters over hishomework until one in the morning.
Now, with that said, does your quote not fall into the categories listed above? Wouldn’t anyone reading, chatting, enjoying the nice weather, etc… in one spot, be wasting/spending time? So, they would actually be loitering as well, correct?
I guess things aren’t as complicated as they seem.
Maybe its you that needs to re-read what you just posted, as you only helped to prove my point. If that was your purpose, great, but somehow I don’t think it was. If you don’t understand the definition that you just posted, then you are saying that all city parks and recreational areas should be shut down.
I have this sense you didn’t actually read what I wrote.
Please, by all means, quote me where I said anything of the sort regarding anything being shut down? You’re very inaccurate when you ASSUME things and put words in other people’s mouths. I said absolutely nothing that confirms or “proves” your point. In reality, I very appropriately quoted your statements and deflected them.
The purpose of clarifying the definitions of loitering, was solely to show the exact past-times you discussed, could be considered loitering as well. Who would be the dictators of who’s loitering and who’s not? My best guess would be if you’re over 55… you’re not loitering. If you’re under 55… you are loitering. The fact that some people in this city want to restrict others’ freedoms and will just to appease a selective group of citizens, is completely unsubstantiated and ridiculous!
Even if it is loud enough to be disrupting there are already laws in place to handle such civil problems. If a person is running around screaming gibberish it is no less disruptive than one who constantly uses profanity. This is why we have the charge ‘Disorderly Conduct’. It is the level of disruption which should be the determining factor in any criminal or civil charge, not the content of the speech itself.
Passing an ordinance prohibiting the public utterance of specific words absolutely does violate our First Amendment rights. It’s a pity you and so many others opt for the way of tyranny as opposed to liberty.
http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2012/06/11/news/nation/mass-town-weighs-20-fines-for-swearing-in-public/?ref=latest
The story referenced, if anyone took the time to read it, does explain how this would not violate one’s freedom of speech. Now, of course Bangor would have to follow the steps Middleborough did, but if done the right way, through the proper channels, no one’s speech rights would be violated.
well… there are several precedents from the U.S. court system that limit freedom of expression in the form of cursing. “Fighting words” or anything that directly incites another to violence is not protected under the first amendment. However it is a double edged sword and using curse words in general speech not directed at another individual to incite them to violence is protect as freedom of expression.
Regardless it is still rude and in poor taste to use the F bomb in every sentence in noun, verb, and adjective form.
An educated and thoughtful response. Cheers.
Are you serious in your post or were you just looking to vent?
Now granted, foul language may not be “against the law” – but frankly it is not needed or necessary either. The people that “hang out”/loiter/whatever you want to call it in Pickering Square are obviously causing the problem… it is they who are making down town merchants and their customers uncomfortable, it is they that make parents not want to go to the Discovery Museum any more. I don’t see anywhere in the article where they state the elderly people in the Freese’s building being the ones causing the problem.I would imagine the people that drew up the plans for Pickering Square did not intend for it to be a place for what some would call “losers” to hang out all day swapping drugs for money, harassing people walking by, and causing a general nuisance to the public. Obviously something needs to be done now, if not the problem will only get worse.
Hand out free boxing gloves and bath salts, then charge admission, sell concessions, and hawk commemorative t-shirts.
A creative idea, but the people they want downtown would never go for this. Too scary for those in a protective dream state.
There are two options. Either station a police officer there full-time (or set up a sub-station as many cities do), or ship the Bangor bus hub out of town. Pickering Square does not need to be the center of the BAT Bus. It could just as easily be located out by the airport. Most people who ride the bus don’t live anywhere near downtown.
I’m sorry to say but this sort of activity happens ALL OVER the city. Not just Pickering Square! I’m sure they’re singling this area out for reasons I posted earlier in my response and using this as an excuse to move the BAT Bus hub elsewhere to please a “certain” other crowd of residents. Perhaps their attention should be better focused on issues such as people running red lights… I saw 7 of them within an hour alone today! LOL
yeh how about leadbetters on ohio street affectionately refered to as ghetto-betters.
Bangorian thought I almost never agree with you I do in this instance… move the bus hub over to the airport mall/cape heart area. or @ least further down maine street… oh wait that would interfere with the casino/arena/waterfront?
This isn’t about “The Bus”
Exactly! Ghetto-Betters, Ohio Street, First Street, Second Street, Third Street, the little park across the P.D. and Bangor Area Shelter on Main Street, the park off Texas Avenue where people camp out, drink, use drugs, etc in the woods just feet from a Head Start Program, the woods and park by the foot bridge. Oh, and let’s not forget the Airport Mall… Capehart (New and Old).
Hell, even throw in Barnaby’s at the Ramada Inn for good measure since they have so many problems, they have off-duty police officers working the doors and a cruiser that patrols there every so often. Then there’s the Waterfront Concerts too! These are just a few of the places here in Bangor with high crime rates.
Now, suddenly, Pickering Square ISN’T the ONLY place there are issues here in Bangor. Even Pickering Square doesn’t have HALF of the problems these other spots do. Like I said, it’s all for publicity of moving the BAT Bus hub because the Down Town residents don’t like the people they see there… They’re trying to figure out an excuse and how the public would react to doing so.
That’s the only motivating factor for publication of this issue.
The first option should be for the City of Bangor to bring their police department up to authorized strength. According to a recent article they are currently 8 officers below the authorized limit. It would seem that it would be excellent training for a rookie to spend sometime walking around not only Pickering Square but other areas of downtown as well. The new officers would get to know the citizens who hang out there and the citizens who hang out there would get to meet all the new officers. As a matter of fact it would be a good idea for the new officers to introduce themselves to the citizens who like to hang out in Pickering Square. I am sure the citizens would really appreciate being on a first name basis with a police officer. Something tells me that the bus isn’t the reason for the problem.
Bike police are amazingly effective; but fat out of shape cops won’t ride them; and criminal defenders don’t want them either.
Most of the problems happen after the bus is done runnnig for the day… this isn’t about the bus riders. And while very few riders live downtown, it is the destination point for a alrge number of jobs and services. It would be silly to move the hub to the airport area as you suggest.
Still a terrible idea. How many people live within walking distance of the airport? Downtown is more residential than at any time in the past 40 years. I can walk home in 10 minutes from the bus stop. Let’s make access to public transportation more difficult — a 180-degree counter-productive idea. Anyway, as several posters have already pointed out, the presence of the bus hub has nothing to do with the behavior problems in Pickering Square.
Come on now… People like you are failing to realize the bus routes wouldn’t change or vary far from the way they are now. The only thing that would change is the location of the bus exchanges. The majority of people who ride the bus are NOT beginning their trip at the Bus hub. They are getting on a bus along a street route and only exchange to a different bus at the hub. What difference would it make WHERE they exchange as long as they can continue to get on at their regular stops???
For someone who claims to always be on the lookout for the environment and pollution (married to a Quimby), Councilor Gratwick’s proposal to blast music into our downtown area certainly doesn’t help with noise pollution.
Next, Gratwick will suggest hiring a pied piper to lead them all into the Penobscot! The city doesn’t have a loitering ordinance? They should have, judging by the ‘no cruising’ signage that I’ve seen. So post the area and turn the BPD loose on them.
No cruising signs certainly make the downtown look friendly. Sort of like the ordinance signs around near the waterfront. Welcome to Bangor, now get out!
To letsbehonestforonce and wetheminion you are not funny!! Not everyone has a car! I rode the bus while I went to the University.. There are drunks, homeless and punks any where there is an open space, the bus has nothing to do with the problem!
Sorry pavint46 I am being sarcastic to show the unfairness and incivility we are allowing to come into this city. I am definitely on your side. Good luck with your education!
I say put in a timeout box. If they don’t behave as steller citizens they get 20 minutes… Could take away their TV time..
Or you could do what the city council really wants and thats to pick and choose who is allowed in Bangor. The rest are not welcome.
I vote for the Time-out box!!!! LOL :P
Hold a Job fair there weekly, should scatter them all.
I’m definitely LMAO @ this right now!! Hahaha! It’s probably true though! :)
85 ,”likes”!!!!!!!!
looks like you hit a nerve
Or think of some other “outside activity” that is not conducive to their “lifestyle” – maybe the councilors are looking at this the wrong way… Instead of trying to get rid of the riff raff to get the park back, they need to come up with a way to make the park so it is not a place the riff raff want to hang out.
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Now that made me laugh !
soooo funny! I think that may be the funniest comment that I have ever read in this comment section!!
Okay, if I’m walking in Pickering square and I’m accosted by drunks, bums, bullies or any other assorted nit wits, I’m giving them exactly one warning. Then they’re getting out of the way or I’m kicking their butts. People need to stand up to these a hole s. If the cops can’t “police” their own city, then protect yourself.
unfortunetly that is a loose loose situation. If you manage to gain the upper hand in a 1 on many fight you will be charged for assault. However the more likely loss to you in a confrontation with nefarious persons who don’t play by rules… is you will get seriously injured or dead. You will either become outnumbered and overwhelmed or they will just use a weapon.
Avoid confrontation when at all possible but, when all else fails use whatever means neccesary to defend yourself and your loved ones.
I carry a concealed weapon. However, I know areas like Pickering square to harbor unsavory and possibly troubling characters I avoid it and don’t put myself in that situtation.
For those who rely on public transportation I really empathize.
What we have here is a city of scared bunnies.
Or former vigilantee’s who smartened up after realizing they have nothing to lose in challenging you; and you have everything! …and forgot about police on bikes, they never seem to be on the street when you need them.
I will say it’s nowhere near as scary as people are making it out to be.
It’s more a lack of common courtesy and sense that bother mean. Rude, obnoxious, ethically challenged, many of them may be, but not really scary
public transportion is what you liberal tree huggers want for everyone, and you empathize…LOL!!!
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It’s not benefiting those complaining from their residence in a commercial district, now is it?
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Not everyone realizes yet that at the top, they are all the same elites that marry into each other’s families, and dine in the best of establishments together. Party politics is mere window-dressing for the masses.
Well you’re gonna be really sick when you hear of all the blame liberals are responsible for.
Why don’t you make up a nice story about why we have to subsidize ‘public transportation’…I love pulp fiction.
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i hear you there,people look at whos in the square,KIDS!!they have rights and can be anywhere they want!weren’t anyone here a child once?i say make the parents alittle more responsible!!take away the shaw houses!they have a place to hang out for free!!why would u be home where you are supposed to be if they make it tat easy to runaway?start putting them in jail or juvie and make them go home and back to school,if they want to hang around and do nothing then make it impossiable “law”wise for them to accomplish it!
What an ignorant and truly arrogant response!!! Have you personally ever been to Pickering Square? By the sounds of it, your nonsense opinions may prevent you from being seen at such a place. Take a look at the photograph published with this story. Are those KIDS???? I’m sure the older gentleman with the beard, a few of the other people standing around, and the couple with the baby are OBVIOUSLY under 18 right? Seriously?
Pickering square is always filled with a variety of people: Elderly people, business people, children, teenagers, adults, parents, grandparents, Bus patrons/non-bus patrons, Parking Garage patrons (which inludes different varieties of people as well), Business owners, Homeless/Homeowners, Intoxicated people/Sober people, People who just sit and watch what’s going on around them, people who like to skate board, people who like to read, people who like to eat there… ETC. The problem is necessarily KIDS. Read a previous article about a WOMAN who was arrested there. Since when are WOMEN under the age of 18?
Have you ever been a homeless youth? Have you ever been faced with an abusive situation where you needed to leave? Have you ever been told to leave by your parents? Did your parents die and no one else was available/or wanted to take you in their home? These are just a few reasons why teenagers may have to choose between going to the Shaw House (A Safe, stable environment with people who care about them and willing to give them the resources detrimental to their survival) or living on the streets and jumping from couch to couch which may prove to be more harmful than anything else.
Contrary to your uneducated belief that homeless youth don’t continue to get their education, many of them do actually attend typical school, get their GED, or maybe even attend Job Corp. Which leads me to another subject. If you’re going to shut down the Shaw House, feel free to shut down the Bangor Area Shelter, The Hope House, The Waterworks, Job Corps, Spruce Run, and Park Woods; any and every single housing project designed for Homeless Adults, Homeless Teens, Homeless Families, Students not from around this area and trying to get their education. Yep, that should just about cut the crime rate here in Bangor by at lease 75% right?
I would encourage you to contemplate what you say BEFORE speaking. Let’s take away powerful resources that keep people safe and throw them back on the streets? Talk about an oxymoron. You will see the crime rate sky-rocket because now, they don’t have anywhere to go but sleep on the streets, they won’t have food/warm clothing/bedding provided to them so now they will steal to get what they need, People would fight over personal belongings, etc. Is that what you were thinking when you said ONLY KIDS hang out in the Square???
Next time you’re out around Down Town… stop into Pickering Square. Get out of your vehicle, open your eyes, and go talk to some of the patrons. You may just realize how WRONG you truly are. Before you pass judgements and make assumptions, take a look at what you may be doing wrong in your own life.
Well, it sure could benefit them. Being right next to the bus terminal, they might be able to forgo the thousands of dollars required to own, insure, and operate a vehicle each year. That’s a pretty big benefit.
Also, the bus runs very limited hours. “after dark” noise and problems are NOT caused by the Bus or its patrons.
“Also, the bus runs very limited hours. “after dark” noise and problems are NOT caused by the Bus or its patrons.”
TRUE.
….esp. during flu epidemics.
Geez…….
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You must not have read that article about the bus vs. truck crash on MDI…
Public transportation is irrelevant to this problem. Most of the problems occur after the bus is done running for the day. The bus riders are not the problem.
The problem is mixed use in the downtown. You have a clash of social classes.
If this is the case, then please explain why people are saying the Bus patrons and other Pickering Square visitors are “scared” or intimidated by the issues? If this isn’t happening when others of the sort are around… what is the problem? LOL
My wife chased a guy who broke a window in a car in downtown Portland and took a backpack.
She alerted the security guard at the Portland Museum of Art, and the ‘porker’ decided it wasn’t in his job description and went back inside.
So she chased the guy, who ran into a parking lot and crawled under a car. o.k. you trapped him, now what? The police came, fished out the guy and not only was he under the influence but was really scuzzy…homeless street people usually are; but once her adrenalin levels dropped she realized this guy with his cut arm dripping blood could be infected with a communicable disease, HIV anyone?So before you decide to defend yourself against street rabble; you better use weapons which maintain your distance…unless you’re a superhero!
Another time a guy on a bike on Exchange street was breaking windows and ripping off stuff. He did a BMW and the owner who was making a sales call went berserk, since her ‘electronics’ were taken.
Guy zipped through the clogged street to the amazement of many people who watched and for the hell of it took out a windshield further down the street and was gone.
How many of you take the ferries at night and encounter the ‘street people’ who come out of the shadows and demand money? Armed & dangerous—them or you?
You better think this through or you will become the victim.
don’t feed the trolls… i don’t even look or respond to them…they are not even human beings.
I’m sorry you feel that way.
One left instead of a right in life, we could be right there with them.
thats a bit harsh,u must be sigle,no kids!
single
Rarely is anyone actually accosted. It’s more a general feeling of discomfort for some people.
True. I try not to buy into that “feeling of discomfort” though. Because if you do, that makes it all the worse for everybody. If I AM accosted however, I’ll deal with it. I’ve been in much worse places than Pickering Square in Bangor, ME and survived. Don’t let the b sta rds scare you out of town is my view.
Now I do not see how that remark is any mature then the majority of the people hanging out in that area. LOL
Blast the polka music and Guy Lombardo 24-7.
That’ll do ‘er up some good yessah.
“People gather at Pickering Square to hang out, play games or loiter.
If they aren’t there to catch the bus then why are they allowed to ‘hang out’?
It’s a square with benches and a nice water fall, it was built for people to enjoy..
It’s not the hanging out that bothers the council, it’s the social economic group that hangs there that bothers them.
If it was all lawyers, doctors, firemen/women, police officers, judges, teachers, etc. loitering in the square and behaving the same way, it wouldn’t even be an issue for the matter of WHO is doing it. Once again, the economic status is coming to light.
Are you kidding with this post? If it was all lawyers, doctors, etc they would most likely behave in a civilized manner 0r maybe not. That is all that is being sought for at Pickering Square. It has nothing to do with “economic status”. There are poor people, DRUNK people, uneducated people who can behave themselves in a public place and there are rich and educated people who can’t. You are just adding a useless argument to take the focus away from the REAL problem. When my friends tell me that they find used condoms wrapped around their car door handles and nearly miss being accosted on their way to their car at the parking garage,, then there is a problem. When people can’t take their little kids to the museum because there are knife fights and people screaming obscenities in the square, then THERE IS A PROBLEM. Who care if those who cause it are rich, poor or in-between? Something needs to be done!
You care about their economic back grounds. Do you support the drunks that are attracted to and hang around the Sea Dog, Paddy Murphys, or other outside drinking pubs in the downtown… put a 30 inch movable fence serve booze and everything is OK.. That is one reason I don’t go downtown Bangor, drunks drinking on the streets
The original problem stated is that people wanted to remove a “bad element” which is a much different situation than your description of CRIMES. Crimes require a call to the police, not an ordinance.
My point is, these “CRIMES” are being caused by the “bad element” that is developing in Pickering Square and something needs to be done.
The only problem with that argument is that these beings are not a “Bad element” (insofar as anything that could be enforced by police) until they commit a crime. While being “a jerk” is certainly a bad thing, just being “a jerk” is legally protected behaviour.
The people you describe would NOT be acting like the thugs there now.
And the disorderly conduct of the individuals who are ‘hanging out’.
I don’t think it matters “who” they are, it is what they are doing. If people were there having a picnic, sitting and enjoying themselves and not being loud, obnoxious and talking like they just learned swear words and want to try them all out, then there wouldn’t be a problem!
Pickering Square is NOT the BAT Bus hub. The little area under the parking garage is the BAT Bus hub. Pickering Square is considered a public, city park so people should be free to enjoy their leisure time on the premises.
People who are fighting, swearing and publicly drinking should not be allowed to ‘enjoy’ any park.
In fact, loitering is not allowed in public places either if one goes by the City of Bangor’s own rules: http://ecode360.com/6893084
Definitions:
LOITERINGRemaining idle in essentially one location, and shall include the concept of spending time idly, to be dilatory, to linger, to stay, to saunter, to delay and to stand around and shall also include the colloquial expression “hanging around.”
PUBLIC PLACEAny place to which the general public has access and a right to resort for business, entertainment or other lawful purpose, but does not necessarily mean a place devoted solely to the uses of the public. It shall also include the front or immediate area of any store, shop, restaurant, tavern or other place of business and also public grounds, areas or parks.
“It shall be unlawful for any person to loiter, loaf, wander, stand or remain idle, either alone or in consort with others, in a public place in such manner as to:
A. Obstruct any public street, public highway, public sidewalk or any other public place or building or hinder or impede the free and uninterrupted passage of vehicles, traffic or pedestrians. Editor’s Note: Amended at time of adoption of Code (see Ch. 1, General Provisions, Art. I).
B. Commit, in or upon any public street, public highway, public sidewalk or any other public place or building, any act or thing which is an obstruction or interference to the free and uninterrupted use of property or to any business lawfully conducted by anyone in or upon or facing or fronting on any such public street, public highway, public sidewalk or any other public place or building, all of which prevents the free and uninterrupted ingress, egress and regress therein, thereon and thereto.”
I’m sick of all the children loitering around playgrounds too. When are the cops going to crack down on all of the children hanging around on monkey bars all day? School should be full time year round so that people who want to walk through parks don’t have to look at or hear all the little people who may occasionally utter a curse word or two or push each other around on the swings. Why doesn’t the City Council talk about that too?
Nice catch! So it’s already against the law, so I don’t think we need any more laws, just use the ones we have.
Because its a public space. Welcome to America.
Would we be allowed to run card parties if we brought the tables?
85% of the Bangor Chamber of commerce members live on the out skirts of Bangor, Yet they want their buddies at city hall to provide for all their needs, like ridding the streets of the unkepted, building a new arena and putting a skate park where there is no side walk axcess and in an area where no homes are located… etc,
The music is the best Idea.
The People you don’t like are here for the services you provide… The poverty industry in Bangor rakes in millons a year. How did city hall justify the methodone clincs. I’m sure they were lobbied hard by someone making tons of money on it, then you complain about the people it brings into town and the owners of the clinics live on the outskirts. Hey city hall you can’t have it all and not expect it all.
I do agree, but you may be stereotyping there too. That’s a huge problem in itself. People tend to believe that if you appear, behave, speak, walk, or live a different lifestyle, you’re conclusively a part of a specific group. However, I believe the majority of people in this city who gain access to the helping professions and services they offer, are genuine and only use them as provided/offered. The remainder do abuse the systems as they see fit. Yes, along with the positives, comes the negative drawbacks as well. Politics are most definitely biased with incentives for self-gain, not the best interests of their citizens.
but even is 1% of the people who live in the bangor area to access the services and programs are deviant that is still a lot of people…
Why are the taxpayers of Bangor funding a Police Dept?? To take care of problems such as this…..
so be the brave one who gets a writ of mandamus to force the police to well, police.
You should be able to get the patrol schedules for any troubled area of the city; and monitor them to make sure the patrols actually happen, and make sure they are foot/bike patrols.
Somehow Pat Blanchette finds a way to blame the smokers once again…trouble in the city, lets blame the smokers. Need money for education, lets tax the smokers. Pat, you were a pain about smoking when you worked at Shop N Save and you still are. Why dont you come up with a real solution rather than throw out some rediculous reason for the trouble. Lots of people in this state and city smoke, but they dont ALL cause trouble in the downtown area because they do….GEESH!!!!
Points for you for still calling it Shop ‘N Save! The good old days!
Hey I still call it Doug’s once in awhile!
I do too!
Maybe it’s time for someone different on City Council besides Blanchette.
After we fine the people for swearing, lets pull a Bloomberg and ban all those super sized soft drinks too cause you know…and i am sure you will agree with me on this one Pat, Fat people tend to cause more trouble than most, just like them there smokers….Oh yeah and we should please the churches and not allow gay people down there. And if you make less than 30,000 a year, well please dont go downtown because you are not contributing to the beauty of this fare city. Why not tell Gastia to hire some personell, stop paying the outrageous overtime, and take care of the city the way it is supposed to be. Another words….DO YOUR JOB
Funny stuff here.
I still thought it was the Occupy Bangor crowd.
You joke but as a downtown employee I can tell you for a fact that when Occupy Bangor had their little tent city over by the library, Pickering Square was empty and many of the people you would normally see hanging out were huddled around a fire pit and eating the free goodies those that supported the occupy movement brought for the protesters. As best I can tell, the occupy folks welcomed them as it increased their numbers from 3 to many which looked good for the media.
Its funny….I posted back during the Occupy times how nice it was to walk to the parking garage without all the obnoxious riff raff hanging out around Pickering Square.
“Obnoxious riff raff” Nice DD. Nice. I might go down to Pickering Square and eat my lunch today. What should I wear so I don’t offend your walking-to-the-garage sensibilities?
Pull up your pants, put your hat on straight, take a bath and don’t ask me for smoke while I have to walk in the grass because you are to dam lazy to make room on the sidewalk and we’ll do just fine.
That was rude and apparently you don’t recognize a bit of sarcasm when you read it.
And I have a dress on today, makeup, and my hair done. I work. But I did start a new routine today– cruising through to observe. It was all quiet about10:15 am, people seemed to be enjoying the sunshine and all was at peace. It is our city to enjoy, no matter who thinks they are better than everyone else. Maybe you should pull your pants down and hang on the sidewalk so you don’t stand out so much and they won’t try to bum money off you?
10:15? Most of them were probably still in bed. Its sad when the ladies in my office feel they have to walk in groups at the end of the day so they feel safe walking to the parking garage. Maybe you don’t feel that pressure, but its real to some and it should not have to be that way.
Call it “profiling” all you want, but there is only one Maine city that I have had bums come up and demand money: Bangor. Since when does the right of no account, intoxicated slackers override the rights of honest, hard working people to a section of town? Warn them for trespass, arrest them when they return. Ticket them for littering when they drop cigarette butts on the ground, make life so uncomfortable for them that they move on. That’s the Chicago way.
It’s brutally bad (bums) in Portland too.
I was there a couple of days ago . .rolled down my window and heard one thug calling out another . .nice . .very conducive to increased shopping in the downtown area . .NOT!
My suggestion to clean it up . . mandatory four years in the Marine Corps!
means testing for all downtown Bangor visitors.
Don’t blast music, then we can’t clap and hear the squeak in the middle of the circle at Pickering Square! (Go stand in the center and clap. You’ll hear it.)
I don’t know what all the fuss is about, it’s really not that bad down there…..
It’s because this is Maine and Mainers are not familiar with this type of activity “where they’re from.”
Downtown Bangor needs a dress code. Khaki Pants with button long sleve shirts. Unless of course your suited up.. This way you can’t tell the difference between the upper or lower class riffraff and everyone will feel good…
I am a supporter of the Khaki pants and button shirts at all times everywhere.. It throws off the elite senses
Do you work down there ? I will tell you about the last time I walked down there. I was walking to get into the assisted living building to see a client. When I crossed the street and walked under a tree almost on the corner in front of the building I had a big wad of spit fall from the air, just missing me. I look up and there in the tree was two young people laughing. I have no choice but park down there for work. I am all about helping the disadvantaged , that is what I do for a living. I don’t discriminate…but I don’t want to be spit on either. If they behave then by all means stay. I would love to see a place that young people could have a good time.
I think the problem stems from that area being out of the way. There is not much traffic back there, kind of isolated. How about if we made part of the downtown one way, and bring the traffic flow around the back of the buildings.
“Eyes on the Street” will usuall solve most nuisance problems. Anyone can be those eyes. Once they are outnumbered, the sketchies usually slink away.
Classical music DOES work, city after city–Just google “classic music crime” and read.
Trick is to not “blast” it but have multiple speakers in all the nooks and crannies that someone might go to get out of rain or wind for example, do not make the place attractive for loitering. It is even attractive to those who wait for buses.
If police are not “showing” themselves, randomly, often, on foot and vehicles, they are not being smart. Continue as long as needed. Cheaper than “shows of force,” or even arrests–Bangor then gets to house and feed the loiterers.
Protect the bus system, it needs expansion, not upheaval. Even a “bus attendant” in a kiosk with a radio straight to police would be cheap enough.
Someone is not thinking creative enough about this problem–notice I did not write ‘problem people’–but the problem that loitering creates. Start with a no smoking zone, a few signs, cheap enough.
I will not use the garage unless absolutely necessary, and I restrict my visits and time downtown as a result–take note businesses, you are ALL losing out.
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The city spent all the tif money so no security for you
when i went to the zac brown concert a couple weeks ago an elderly man was asking for 50 cents through the entire line going in…nobody gave him anything – when he came to me I didn’t even look at the scum. i heard later that the guy was asking for only 20 cents last week…
i doubt i’ll ever go to another concert there if police can’t control that from happening…next its stabbing people who won’t give him anything
the problem is bangor city council welcomes them with open arms because of benefits the government gives to the city…don’t believe me?
(I like Councilor Gratwick’s suggestion. He is also running for state senate…His suggestion might improve the legislature in Augusta as well…G)
There used to be a funny ad on TV showing an old guy enjoying the park when some rapper sat down with his boombox blasting. The old guy went over and sat on the same bench and came up with aan even bigger boombox and blasted that kid to the ground with louder classical! That was funny!
I have a home next to the Middleborough, Mass mentioned. It doesn’t have panhandlers or street bums in its downtown, but when I drop in to a shop for a take out pizza and salad, the place is crawling with saggy pant teens who can’t say a sentence without at least two m-effing comments included. Who wants to take their 5 year old into that environment? They aren’t violent, but they do ruin the quality of life there.
I like the classical music idea but “blasting” music is in very poor taste.
This is a most disgusting place to walk through, esp. if you have a head full of propaganda from social welfare and homeless advocates.
Hundreds congregate in the multi-block area; many are smoking; many are using cell phones; some are doing drug deals; others are in various stages of drug/alcohol influence; many carry weapons of some kind; and some are plain crazy.
Put them all together and you have a very good reason not to park anywhere down there, let alone walk through it.
I wonder how often Emily Cain visits and surveys her ‘constituent’s, esp. those who vote as Democrats?
Nice try.
Can you try posting somethnig that isn’t quite so meaningless and divisive next time?
like WBLM SUX…..you check your mirror lately?
….
and cigarettes and tattoo’s…so where’s the money coming from to pay for these? You support them, I’m through with bums, druggies, crazies, and beggars.
….
One of the best things they could do is create an ordinance for public obscenity. Then have a beat cop there regularly or stationed in the location permanently. Start ticketing people $50.00 a pop for cursing in public and they will not hang around for long.
How about anyone who gets arrested down there is banned from returning. That will get rid of the big trouble makers and curb others from coming around.
Uncle Joe deal with it. Instead of complaining about it. Thats all you have done is cry and wine too city hall for years. Move the Bat, just get reid of it for good. Big waste of tax dollars!!!!
A few weeks ago I was walking from a downtown store after a mommy n me type meeting. It had run late, and as I walked towards the square I realized parking the garage was probably not the best choice I had made that day.
A late 20s guy asked if I had I cigarette, I shifted my young daughter to the other hip and said no as I walked on. His female friend (gf?) made a snarky remark that a “bi#ch like that won’t give on up”. They laughed at me while I kept walking.
They can call me whatever they want, but the truth is I shifted my daughter not because I wanted her away from them, but because I carry concealed.
I will never park in the garage again, and I will very unlikely ever go near the square again.
I certainly can see why you would avoid the square after this. Just to reference the story – did you happen to see these people get on or off The Bus?
I respectfully disagree with you Abigail. You handled this situation perfectly. You should feel empowered after your experience. I understand about your daughter, but imo you should feel that going to the garage or the square should be easily handled the next time. You got it right! Nice job.
Isn’t there already a “no loitering” ordinance?
Next time I’m downtown I’m going there to check out if there are indeed zombies there. I will bring my can of Bear spray. You only have to spray a couple now and then and things will change..
I was approched one morning around 4 am by a drunk bleeding person who looked out of it and he asked me for money. If he would been bear sprayed prior to our encounter I’m sure he would have left me alone.
Pass a law that allows pepper spraying people bumming money off you.. the square would be ok then.
Since when is public intoxication not against the law???
Since forever in Maine.
how could it be when Bangor allows drinking on the outside of the pubs and eateries. They like their drunks outside and yelling…
I checked the place out after the last article. Its possible to erect a large circular tent, and rent out boothes to artesians, home made gourmet foods, that kind of thing. High end artists and craftsmen need outlets desperately.
Central street has a row of vacant store fronts..
Really where. I only see one empty store front
Its a city… I’m a native of Bangor but common its no where near as dangerous as people are making it out to be. Yes some of the individuals might be “gross” or drunk but common now. If you don’t like it don’t go there.
Many complain about that police but as stated there is no public intoxication law. It is a PUBLIC square. Sounds like a lot of people on here complain about to much police control until something upsets them and they want walls built and people thrown in jail..
I live out of town and was in Bangor last night for the first time since reading about the problems that Bangor is having. Coming down Union Street was a real eye opener for us. We counted over 50 young people walking, loitering and 4 were standing right in the street across from the Rite Aid and people had to stop while they visited. For the first time I felt scared to be in downtown Bangor and it was still early evening. After dark must be a real treat. I won’t be in that area again soon.
Welcome to the new world of a massive and growing homeless population. Bangor is the new destination of choice, with methadone clinics, a Job Corps and a newly-expanded casino that leaves more than it’s share of broke people (which is of course, its business model).
Maybe they need free cars so they can drive and drink?
Or WI FI and free laptops w/porn accounts?
I just realized Iwas confusing public intoxication with drinking in public! I am pretty sure that is illegal! I am VERY opposed to the government telling us what to do, but perhaps we need a law against public intoxication, which applies to drugs as well as alcohol!
When we were that age just hanging out, the cops would just pull up and tell us to move on, everybody acts like there is no solution and throws up there hands
One of the things this city could do is to not raise the taxes to fill the GA deficit. If Bangor doesn’t have it then they just don’t give the assistance out. Other cities in the United States and other towns in Maine say no sorry we can’t help you. Why does Bangor feel the need to encourage people to come to our city and live off the system. This is the real problem, if we didn’t hand out assistance so freely things would start changing. This is my opinion of why we have such a problem in Maine especially Bangor.
Yet another example of Bangorians making a mountain out of a molehill. I lived in downtown Bangor most of my life, and I know all too well the problems about which people are complaining. (Although when I was a teenager myself, I probably WAS one of the problems about which people were complaining, even if I never did anything worse than smoke some cigarettes and look menacing. Whatever.) And I agree that it’s unpleasant to have to walk past a veritable parade of weirdos, smokers, and the psychiatric walking-wounded. But you know what? It’s not a right to live in a place where you never have to have those experiences. Weirdos, smokers, and the mentally ill have the right to hang out in public and act weird, smoke, or be crazy. Your desire to “have a nice day” does not trump their right to let their freak flags fly – as long as they’re not breaking any laws.
And speaking of law-breaking: I agree wholeheartedly that laws should be enforced. If the law wants to make an example out of prosecuting a few legitimate “disorderly conduct” (or whatever) cases from the Pickering Square crowd, so be it. But no good will come of a full-fledged crackdown, as some commenters have suggested, or even of ramping up the police presence. Not all problems have a legal solution, and in many cases legal solutions also lead to unpleasant unintended consequences. Blasting classical music is a stupid, ignorant, outdated suggestion. Moving the bus depot may be a short-term solution, but….really?? Over a few smokers and Slipknot fans?
The best solution is to give the Pickering Square crowd something better to do with their time than hang out looking scary. What seems to work in other cities is having a vibrant cafe culture, music/art scene, and plenty of employment opportunities for the young and the mentally disabled. Let’s work towards that, and not towards a police state.
How about putting an outreach worker down there? Then maybe these young people with nothing to do can find ways to move in a more positive direction and the workers can police the area somewhat.
that poor baby in the stroller……someone smoking two feet away from his space. Im all for smoking as a personal choice when it doesn’t effect others, but smoking in the baby’s face, disgusting!
Bangor is slowly turning into Portland with the Square turning into a resemblance of Oxford St in Portland.
So why do we have people hanging out in this location. One being it is close to a huge transportation hub, two the homeless shelter is just up the road, and it is close I am assuming to the “Ghetto” of Bangor.
So what can we do with the squatters who utilize and make this place less than friendly for our citizens?
Not much honestly. We continue to bring up stories like these with no clue on how to make it stop. Creating and hanging signs limiting how long people can hang out will only fall upon closed eyes, and monitoring the area will be a costly idea.
Get use to it Bangor, because the area will only become worse. Boston terminal is a great place for people to compare Bangor to. Take a walk outside, and the seats are littered with homeless and the other then savory types.
Been past Pickering Square twice today, all the people appeared to be behaving civilly and having a nice summer day outdoors. Also there was a demonstration and march today starting at Peirce Park. People tired of being demonized for being poor or sick or disabled. Tired of being looked down upon with the stereotyping of being lazy and ignorant. Protesting cuts to healthcare instead of cuts to defense and military spending. Bangor is a vibrant city today, full of people doing their thing. Just great!
Why try to reinvent the wheel in Bangor? This problem exists world wide and a solution has already been found for it. Doesn’t anyone out there have the internet or read newspapers any more?
The Mosquito or Mosquito alarm (marketed as the Beethoven in France, the Swiss-Mosquito in Switzerland and SonicScreen in the US and Canada) is an electronic device, used to deter loitering by young people, which emits a sound with a very high frequency. The newest version of the device, launched late in 2008, has two frequency settings, one of approximately 17.4 kHz[1] that can generally be heard only by young people, and another at 8 kHz that can be heard by most people. The maximum potential output sound pressure level is stated by the manufacturer to be 108 decibels (dB).[2] The sound can typically only be heard by people below 25 years of age, as the ability to hear high frequencies deteriorates in humans with age (a phenomenon known as presbycusis).
The device is marketed as a safety and security tool for preventing youths from congregating in specific areas. As such, it is promoted to reduce anti-social behaviour such as loitering, graffiti, vandalism, drug use, drug distribution, and violence. In the UK, over 3,000 have been sold, mainly for use outside shops and near transport hubs.[3] The device is also sold in Australia, France, Denmark, Italy, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Canada and the USA.[4]