BANGOR, Maine — From the front porch of his cabin on West Lake in Township 3 ND, Esu Anahata can look to his right and see where 14 wind turbines might be built on Passadumkeag Mountain.
He doesn’t want the turbines there. He fears that strobe lighting mounted on the turbines would be a nuisance at night, and that the turbines themselves would blight the beauty of his view.
So the nongovernmental organization co-founder had a question for the Penobscot County Board of Commissioners on Tuesday: Can tax break money commissioners hope to get from the turbines be used to blunt the adverse visual effect he would suffer from the turbines?
“This will considerably alter my view,” Anahata said during the commissioners’ public hearing Tuesday. “Maybe we want to take a look at how the funds are delivered.”
The project funds might find such a use, commission Chairman Tom Davis said, but not for Anahata: He lives in Hancock County, and the TIF funding the commissioners get could only be used for improvements in Penobscot County.
“It seems like I am getting caught somewhere between ‘unfair’ and ‘unfortunate,’” Anahata told Davis.
“It’s the American Way,” Davis answered.
Commissioners held a public hearing to allow residents to say how they would want to use the Tax Increment Financing funding the project would accrue if it earns a site permit. The permitting process is ongoing.
Very few, if any, of the 40 or so people who attended spoke in favor of wind power. Many were members of anti-wind groups reiterating that they felt wind power was a poor investment for the state.
They described wind turbines as scenic blights that reduce land values, create few jobs, overtax the state’s power grid and do nothing for Maine ratepayers. Wind power advocates, if there were any in attendance, did not answer the claims.
A tax incentive program for economic development available to all Maine local governments, a TIF permits a municipality or county government to use some or all of the new property taxes that result from an investment project within a designated district to assist in that project’s expenses and also generate economic development funds for the municipality.
A TIF with the county would provide the developer, Quantum Utility Generation, an alternative energy company based in Houston, Texas, with tax breaks toward the project in exchange for a portion of tax revenues, which may be used for county initiatives totaling $7.8 million over 30 years. The money would be used for economic development projects.
If approved, the TIF would be the first in Penobscot County, Davis has said.
The turbines would be 459 feet from base to extended blade tip. Each would generate 3 megawatts of electricity, according to the company’s proposal. Electricity would be collected in a 34.5-kilovolt line to run about 17 miles from Passadumkeag Ridge along Greenfield Road through Summit Township, Greenfield Township and Greenbush.
The project would include a substation in Greenbush and a connection to an existing 115-kilovolt transmission line on Greenbush Road.
Commissioners occasionally strained to keep the hearing on topic. Commissioner Stephen Stanley and Davis said they didn’t necessarily support or reject Quantum’s proposal, but supported the TIF program.
“We’re not pro or con about this. This is about creating jobs in rural areas,” Stanley said, adding that residents in unorganized territories lack many of the services more urban residents enjoy.
TIFs should not be used to support unviable business models such as industrial wind sites, Bangor resident Jim LaBrecque said. The sites operating now survive mainly on tax breaks such as the TIF and federal money, he said.
He declared wind turbines a matured technology and predicted they would end up littering the countryside once the tax breaks dried up. Maine isn’t getting a sliver of the supposed value these projects represent, LaBrecque said.
“That’s not what we are here for,” Davis responded.
Chris Hersey of Brewer said the issue was bigger than TIF money. Projects such as Passadumkeag Mountain force multimillion-dollar improvements to the grid that force increases in electricity costs for ratepayers who don’t benefit from wind sites, Hersey said.
Anahata questioned why anyone would want to develop the mountain, saying that doing so could ruin a pricelessly pastoral place, one of a diminishing number of such places across the nation.
The Maine Department of Environmental Protection is due to continue its review of the project with a meeting Thursday in Greenbush. The public is invited. A similar meeting was held in April. About 30 people attended.
What a beautiful photo R.W. Estela! Saddening to see our scenic wonders destroyed. I hope he gets compensated for what he deserves out of this disaster, and then some!
Are you nuts?
he deserves nothing and that’s what he’ll get
Green energy 1 Esu Anahata zero.
Wind Pimps 1, People of Maine who need reliable affordable energy ZERO.
You could put up your own, smaller, windmill. I have a water turbine in the stream, a windmill behind the house and asolar panel on the barn. Except for the solar panel, batteries and inverter the rest is home built from scrounged parts. I don’t pay much for electricity ’cause I harvest my own. Glad to be farming in Maine.
Thanks for listening.
So, we’re going to continue to demolish dams that provide constant renewable energy and put up a bunch of wind turbines that ruin maines mountain ranges and beautiful landscape that aren’t nearly as constant or efficient as hydro power.
smart.
thanks king! i guess being “in” with first wind has its benefits right?
You hit the nail on the head. The legacy of Baldacci and King will be that of the modern robber barons of Maine who sold out the state for the unreliable, unaffordable wind power.
What mountain has been destroyed?
Mars Hill Mt., Stetson Mt., Jimmey Mt., Owl Mt. Rollins Mt., 4 unnamed “Rocky Dundee” ridges, Kibby Mt., Kibby Range, Sisk Mt., Record Hill, Flathead Mt., Partidge Peak, Spruce Mt., Bull Hill, Heifer Hill. That is the sad tally so far.
Now they are going after Passadumkeag Mt. The Oakfield Hills and Saddleback Ridge are approved projects being appealed. There are meteorological data towers all over Maine, next to some of our most beautiful places like Katahdin and Bigelow.
When you blast holes as deep as 30 feet and as large as a quarter acre to fill with concrete and rebar to anchor a 459 foot tall structure, that is destoying a mountain. Blasting and leveling for access roads that are 60 feet wide and for two acre pad sites for each turbine, that is destroying a mountain. When blasting alters hydrology that is the legacy of the last ice age, that is destroying a mountain. Does that answer your question?
I have seen Mars Hill since they put the turbines up on a trip north I took… the mountain seems pretty intact to me. Besides, I believe ALL of these parcels of land in question are privately owned. Are you suggesting that your neighbors have input as to which color to paint your house?
You should walk them after a big rain and see the erosion. The wide roads are unnecessary and the areas clearcut for the turbines is overkill. There is no end in sight and the developers have every hill in Maine targeted. What do you people have against the natural outdoors?
You’re kidding right? You realize what the alternatives are, right?
1) if that mountain was full of coal, it would have been leveled. Mountains are LITERALLY turned into pits when coal in mined. Not to mention all the really cool things that happen to the drinking water in the nearby vicinity to a coal mine.
2) Natural gas is a finite resource that we are now fracking for, and apparently causing earthquakes in the process. Hmmm… doesn’t sound like conservation to me.
3) Hydro? Hydro is just as useless with just as poor a capacity factor UNLESS you make huge head ponds that destroy hundreds of acres of land.
I am FOR conservation, not against. No one wants to say what they feel on this topic. It’s all about the money. Whether your bills go down… or not on the take from a nearby wind farm like your neighbors are. These are topics I would have to debate. But insinuating the wind farms destroy more land than our other present sources of electricity is just plain misinformed.
This is a money concentric country and for MOST things, people have to be forced to do the right thing. EVERY argument I hear is a thinly veiled guise covering the fact that person x, y, or z is not PERSONALLY benefiting from whatever it is they are opposed to. Just your name alone.. seriously. Enron? Seriously? How about WALMARTCROOKS? I bet you shop there though to save your 15 cents on cat food, so that one benefits you personally.
Back to conservation. Golf courses. Get rid of them. They are an abomination. I hate golf, it’s not even a sport until they put a goalie up in front of the hole. It’s a game that you play when the weather is nice. The land isn’t even used 6 months out of the year. If my choices were to have a golf course or a wind farm that provides energy every month, it’s an easy choice. Then again.. you probably play golf too. So those things are cool.
NO ONE opposes development of recreation, BUT, when it comes to life sustaining energy, everyone is suddenly an expert.
Your assumptions are 90% incorrect, but we do agree on a few points. Coal mining will continue regardless of how many millions of wind turbines are erected. The US continues to export to some 4 dozen other countries, including China who burn it to make turbines. The wind projects have clearcut hundreds of acres which causes erosion and siltation on nearby lakes and has a warming effect on the trout streams.
Fracking is a good example of why industry can never be trusted to follow regs. and why tough regs. are needed. When they were blasting for the Rollins project, a small earthquake was felt and a foundation was cracked. If the owner had money to sue and the time to battle lawyers in court for years, he may have eventually found compensation. Your comment against hydro is just plain wrong. There needs to be fishways designed by biologists not accountants. Hydro also prevents flooding, though nobody is suggesting new hydro dams, just retrofitting the old ones with new turbines and better designs. Some dams we can do without.
I am for conservation too and weatherization. Wind farms destroy more mountain ridges than all other energy sources in MAINE. If you want to drag West Va. into the Maine argument, it is meaningless because what Maine does will not slow mtn. top removal or fracking . Remember too that Maine wind farms only produce energy 20% of the time. Is it worth it? Not to me.
If I personally benefitted from wind farms it would make no difference to me. I would oppose them for a dozen reasons. I would rather shut off the power than ruin the outdoors.
My Enroncrooks moniker alludes to the fact that Enron used the same tactics big wind is using,i.e. deregulation, lies, and political gaming.
I agree with you on golf courses, so you are wrong on that count too. However you compare a golf course to a wind farm when 1 is used for half a year, and the other makes power less than one quarter of the time. Both uses are a waste, but the golf course does not devalue neighbors property or require blinking red lights visible from Mt Katahdin.
Your support for wind power would make more sense if coal plants were being shut down, but they aren’t and will not be.
The runoff from these clear cut sites, access roads, and transmission ROW’s, are flooding streams, washing out roads & culverts and filling up streams with silt……I may exaggerate; but tell me how good all this new runoff is?
but you would rather destroy tha waterways with dams.
How are the waterways being destroyed? They have fish ladders, etc? I’ve seen no evidence that any of our rivers have been destroyed by having hydro dams in place.
The only people who want to do away with hydro are the ecoterrorists who want Maine to have unaffordable energy so that they can continue to drive out the inhabitants.
By 1820, nearly 90% of the Dams in Maine had been constructed; so are you saying that Maine rivers were destroyed in 1820?
You don’t have a clue how those dams helped ‘civilize’ Maine and made it both habitable and an economic powerhouse.
wrong poster sorry
No one has a “right” to a particular view. Landscapes change, it’s not his land, if he wanted to control what happened on it, he should have bought it.
That said, wind power should not be subsidized with tax credits. Let the best technology win on its own merits.
I what you do on your land devalues your neighbor’s property value, he has every right to have a say. we cannot do anything just because we own something.
MOVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Europe has large amounts of wind turbines all over the beautiful country side and it is far from an eye sore. I would rather see that than a smoke stack from an coal plant.
true, but why tear down hydro power? which is more reliable than wind power?
The only thing that wind disrupts is the idea that a view is something a person can sue over for a profit. Hydro disrupts water borne eco systems.
When they evaluate and TAX your Property as to its view, ( which they quite often do), then they need to compensate accordingly!
It’s not that simple: the state’s constitution requires that it be evaluated on it’s “just value”, but Maine’s municipalities consider “market values”. He has no basis for a lawsuit, what he needs to pursue here is a devaluation of his property by the town’s assessor’s. He should never be paid money because of the view, he doesn’t own that nor is his house for sale. This is crap, that’s like me saying I own the view from my dock on the lake; I may own the dock, but not what I look at!!
I agree about your view should be irrelevant to the Tax Evaluation as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, however it isn’t. Talk to your conservative buddies in Augusta who just passed a law that if the government devaluates its property with legislation by 50 % that they have a right to sue the State.
That was passed for the Wal-marts in the world so that they can use economic pressure to build wherever they want.
Rezone and Put a wal-mart next to me and you better be ready to pay the price!
Whats good for the goose sould be good for the gander!
I’m not a conservative…..nor am I opposed to corporate interest having to pay for what they reap…..what I am opposed to is people claiming something that simply isn’t theirs, and then assume that they have a right….”to a view”.
I believe you are a regular shill for the wind industry in these comments, plain and simple.
…..and did we not have in the paper last fall or so about a man whose property was an eyesore of unique sculptures (to other people) and they made him get rid of everything?
You are wrong on both counts.
Views are worth approx. 30% of the sale price of real estate with view lines. Disrupt the viewline and you reduce the sale and resale price of real estate upsetting Realtors enormously.
Hydro is a water habitat that is far superior as a fishery than a wild river; besides it nourishes stream banks, supports aquatic vegetation that remove water pollution and CO2, provide recreational values for a broader spectrum of society, and not only enhance property values and in turn increase tax revenue for waterfront, but provide a cushion against drought and flooding.
[citation needed]
It sounds like a brochure for the hydro industry.
or an official government publication like the Maine State Hydropower plan, or the Legislature’s declaration on the value of hydropower, or just plain observation and common sense….which do you prefer?
I would dare to say that “an official government publication” these days may be heavily influenced by financial contributions by industry (any industry). That being said, I would again question whether this statement came from a brochure from the hydro industry.
I would agree with you that hydro creates a different environment through human intervention and perhaps as a stocked fishery it may be quite successful as there is no natural competition. I also know that hydro (blockage of a river system) prevents that natural migration of Anadromous and Catadromous fish species. Fish ladders and other systems are marginally effective to ineffective. This is also apparent by plain observation and common sense.
A near 400 year old Silver maple tree fell over that was next to a river. It was 26+ feet around do you think the river had nothing to do with it’s size and age? Where do the best cedar trees grow?
Used fish tank water is awesome for house plants and outside flowerbeds.It’s near common knowledge plants purify the air.
You can eat things that grow in a river, but I think pickings on pidgeons going through a wind mill is going to leave one hungry.
Just for you:
“The first Dictionary of Real Estate Appraisal somewhat poetically defines a view to be the scene or prospect viewed from a site or property.
1 More recently, the Appraisal Institute offers a more pragmatic definition: “the scene visible from a specific location, which may affect the value of the site or property.”
2 Broker’s marketing brochures and conventional wisdom suggest that view attributes can significantly influence the value of real estate. Market studies furthermore support the premise, with one study concluding that – as to its Lake Erie submarket – “in addition to square footage and lot
size, view is the most significant determinant of home value.”
3 To the point, the Appraisal Institute affirmatively states that, in appraising land, an appraiser must consider – among the property’s physical characteristics ‐‐ view.
4 Views that tend to command a value premium may be scenic: lake, mountain, river gorge, desert, ski slopes, natural areas, or golf courses.”
How about the fact it costs more. Thus putting even more financial burden Mainers who work. Wind turbines kill birds!!! See we can all play that game..
Hey I got a tower I can see out my back yard with a red light flashing on it maybe I should sue someone about that..
Cars kill far more… ban cars. Cell phone towers and plate glass windows as well. Ban them too?
Yea lets get rid of Mcdonalds and all other fast food to. Then we can get rid of soda and candy! Hell why not just outlaw sugar all together.
Ahh… I see where you are going. This is more of a discussion about healthcare. The freedom of the uninsured to live unhealthy lifestyles is starting to crimp the lifestyles of those of who pay insurance premiums. It’s a “freedom tax” that only those of us that pay healthcare premiums have to pay… the “tax” that allows a 3 pack a day smoker to get treated even though he can’t pay. So, while I don’t think we need to outlaw those things, I think you should have proof of health insurance to buy them.
That aside, I am not sure how your comment relates to the FACT that windows, cars, pesticides, communication towers and house cats kill FAR more birds than wind turbines. There may be reasons to be opposed to wind energy… that just is not a very strong one.
No the point is not that at all. It is do people make decisions VIA government or does government make decisions sans the people.
Windmills are a prime example of this. They cost far to much they are disliked by those who live where they are built. They do not lower the cost of power. However they still get built. Because someone “feels good” for having done it. Kind of like the Prius when you look at it is sounds like a good idea. Then with a little research you find out that it is almost the most environmentally passenger vehicle to make. That seems to not matter.
But it also creates others.
Why not use both?
The problem is people hate change, maybe someone should run out there with a proposal for some coal plants instead. I have looked over some great views and thought “wow those trees are really in the way over to the west there, I wish they would chop them down, it is bothering my view even though they are quiet, and man the foliage in the fall, what a nusiance with them bright leaves!”
Please note the above comment was sarcasm and was not an actual comment I have stated in my life, however, I am aware it is possible someone may have once thought this and as such my quote is purley coincidental and not inteded at one person dead or alive.
The comparison is not a belching coal plant, but clean green hydro. Power for Mainers by Mainers. I would rather own the power than be owend by it.
Hydro isn’t green. Hydro disrupts and destroys water borne ecosystems.
Hydro Sometimes Creates Ecosystems!
It’s all a matter of “Where” the water is!
The amount of impounded water behind a dam is far greater than the amount in the stream that existed before. This impounded water supports a diverse fishery that can feed the poor in a community, and provide water for agriculture, watershed stabilization, wetlands, and recreation.
How many people does a wind farm feed?…oh wait, you can eat dead bats and birds..yummy!
Ecosystem is a broad brush, but yes the old ones choked the life out of the rivers and lakes. Dam technology has come along ways with fish ladders and base openings for a deep current stream. The ecosystem can remain unchanged. Maine is set well for hydro, and people like looking at waterfalls and migrating fish swimming up the ladders.
I find it humorous that a dam is not an eye sore while blocking a river and requiring a special route for fish to act upon their natural instincts, but a wind turbine is awful and ugly and need to be destroyed.
Dams are not 500 ft. tall and seen for 120 miles. Properly designed fishways need to be built, designed by biologists not accountants.
again…You are wrong on both counts.
Views are worth approx. 30% of the sale price of real estate with view lines. Disrupt the viewline and you reduce the sale and resale price of real estate upsetting Realtors enormously. Hydro is a water habitat that is far superior as a fishery than a wild river; besides it nourishes stream banks, supports aquatic vegetation that remove water pollution and CO2, provide recreational values for a broader spectrum of society, and not only enhance property values and in turn increase tax revenue for waterfront, but provide a cushion against drought and flooding
[citation needed]
The first Dictionary of Real Estate Appraisal somewhat poetically defines a view to be
the scene or prospect viewed from a site or property.1 More recently, the Appraisal
Institute offers a more pragmatic definition: “the scene visible from a specific location,
which may affect the value of the site or property.”2 Broker’s marketing brochures and
conventional wisdom suggest that view attributes can significantly influence the value of
real estate. Market studies furthermore support the premise, with one study
concluding that – as to its Lake Erie submarket – “in addition to square footage and lot
size, view is the most significant determinant of home value.”3 To the point, the
Appraisal Institute affirmatively states that, in appraising land, an appraiser must
consider – among the property’s physical characteristics ‐‐ view.4
Views that tend to command a value premium may be scenic: lake, mountain, river
gorge, desert, ski slopes, natural areas, or golf courses.
I dont see how that applied to the tax code at all
Wind is not green. Mining for rare earth metals is an environmental disaster in China. Oil use for shipping, coal burning or smelting etc, wind power is an env. disaster with nobody adding up the carbon debt.
To compare the siting of turbines in the German rustbelt or elsewhere with siting in the pristine mountains Maine is an extremely unfair. Trust me, there are no turbines marring the landscape of Tuscany or the Loire Valley
To compare Maine to anything other than typical German country side is unfair to those other places. Maine is not some lone wonder of the world. It looks exactly like every other part of New England. There is nothing unique or special about this snowflake.
You don’t get around much do you?
Maybe the issue is I do get out often enough to realize that there is nothing that can be found in Maine that cannot be found elsewhere. The sooner people realize that, the sooner we can move forward with proper development and conservation plans. Yes, nature should be conserved and protected, but not to the detriment of society.
You can find the same sort of hills, streams, and forests in New Hampshire, Vermont, New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island. They are not unique to Maine and acting like they are gets you entitled attitudes that cause law suits of a changed view.
Then why not throw up just as many wind turbines in other states in New England, I know some are already out there, but Maine seems to be in the news about it much more.
Considering this is BANGOR DAILY NEWS, I am not surprised Maine seems to be in it a lot.
I think you missed the underlying point of that comment. If wind projects were successful in other New England states the industry would be pushing that information out there in local media through their statements in interviews done by local media. Wind projects in other states have been in the news by the way. In fact I seem to recall one where the locals down in Mass opposed a very controversial and public project down there. Haven’t heard much about it lately, but it was in the news. That’s why we don’t see news about wind projects from other states because there is negative publicity.
Maine is preyed upon for wind site development for three reasons: 1) we have vast acreage that are required for these sprawling industrial sites and willing landowners; 2) an unknowing Legislature passed without debate in the waning scrum of the legislative session in April 2008 the heinous PL 661, which expedites the permitting process, exempts wind development from the usual environmental standards, and strangles citizen input; and 3) we have poor communities and pandering politicians who are willing to permit wind as long as they get a pittance of the money that flows.
The support of a TIF by the Penobscot County Commissioners is not only a gross mis-use of the intent of TIF, but it constitutes local welfare for an undeserving company. If anything, this wind developer should not only pay full taxes on full valuation, but pay a substantial annual impact fee in exchange for the right to destroy the natural resources of Passadumkeag Mt. and ruin the unique beauty of the region. They would high tail it back to Texas really fast!
“You can find the same sort…” – completely explains why people from NH, VT, NY, MA, CT and RI flock to ME for vacations.
That is a really terrible argument.
Not an argument at all – I was pointing out what an asinine statement you made.
Contrary to your statement, people come to Maine to experience what they cannot experience in their home state. Maine has vast areas of true darkness and millions of acres of wilderness to explore. Where in the states you mention can you find either of those things?
You advocate for an energy source that may have huge capacity but fails to deliver – I believe the average actual production is somewhere less than 20% of capacity. Germany has thousands of acres of wind farms – how many traditional power plants have been taken off line due to the contribution of those farms?
Denmark has to import electricity even though they have thousands of turbines. Why is that? Perhaps because wind is unreliable and when you combine that unreliability with substandard production:capacity you get a huge fail.
The hydro dams are already installed in Maine. It makes more sense to upgrade those dams than it does to make the environmental changes necessary to install wind farms. Hydro power is constant and reliable; wind is not. Salvaging hydro power makes even more sense when you do the cost benefit analysis as compared to that of wind.
backed up by tourist surveys…..get out some more and do your own research….hey, mom lets go and look at radioactive containers at Maine Yankee.
The state gets millions to store the nuke waste. It could be disposed of in a subduction zone, but the states want that FREE FED MONEY to keep rolling in. Hence the nukes stay here.
not conserving and protecting nature is THE detriment of society….when it is all gone we will figure out we can’t eat money.
Enhancing nature with stored water is both civilized and sustainable. ….or would you prefer to clean up after flooding on ‘wild’ rivers?
yo CHOPTOP perifunl! who needs mountain tops anyway?
This is, hands down, the most beautiful state in the eastern USA. With your attitude, I suggest you move to some heavily industrialized area. You do not deserve to call Maine your home.
Blasting away, leveling, and scalping miles of Maine’s ridgelines to put up wind turbines that are the height of a Boston skyscraper is industrialization that is way out of scale and offends rural Maine’s vaunted “Quality of Place”.
What is really offensive is the myth that these subsidy dependent machines are an answer to either climate challenges or electricity demand, as they are neither. When we start believing that 25% of rated capacity is acceptable output, we are in serious trouble and that is the fickle trickle of unpredictable, unreliable electricity wind power gives in Maine. Wind power is a farce that must be stopped now before we lose what makes Maine so beautiful.
Maine is a wonder in and of itself. The most beautiful state in the country ( I know I have been to all of them ) Also nicer the all the rest of the world ( been to most of that to ). Of all the places I would have settled I came right back here to Maine.
I have a unwavering love for Maine and all it’s greatness. Something you do not appear to share.
Are you a Mainer? It sure don’t sound like it. This state is a gem and prob one of the best kept secrets in the country (thankfully) Pristine–sparsely populated–safe with the exception of black-flies–quality air–a coastline unsurpassed by any -and still existing virgin forest with nary a road through them–Unique and special are understatements for sure. And for anyone to say otherwise is a slap in the face to the rest of us that cherish this Jewel.
And thanks to the resistance to any kind of economic development, a great place to live – so long as you aren’t a Mainer.
Does everyone here work for the tourism / forest guide industry or something?
Oh Virgin Forest? My god that’s a laugh. Maine is the only place I’ve ever been where you can find one clear cut after another, and one bald mountainside after another – thanks to our booming paper industry which has always had an interest in preventing ANY development at all in the poor north.
It’s every bit an eyesore! Are you kidding me? They’ve been attempting to install windfarms off the Norfolk coast (East of England), and they are sinking into the seabed as well as blighting the coastline.
Putting these contraptions across inland Maine is one of the most bloody-minded disasters I have ever witnessed. It’s out of sight out of mind for the rich schlubs squatting in their mansions along the coast. They’re probably even investing in them. It’s fine to ruin the view and quality of life of the “little folks” in their cabins and retirement homes along lakeshores, most of whom do not have the resources or money to fight these taxpayer-subsidized monstrosities. It’s worse than a joke.
Those contraptions when implemented in other countries often vastly reduce the price of power and even provide a source of income to those that allow them on their land. They help offset the requirements of coal and wood burning plants, and until people start allowing nuclear, something needs to happen.
The price of power when you add in the expensive and lengthy transmission lines is increasing…CMP & BH are increasing their distribution costs to cover wind transmission lines. THAT MEANS WIND POWER IS INCREASING THE COST OF ELECTRICITY.
No that means BH and CMP are raising their prices to increase profits.
~citation def. needed~
Natural Gas sets the price of energy in New England… and power prices are the lowest they have been in 10 years. If you are feeling gouged, take it up with your supplier and utility. Mathematically speaking, a sliver of wind power in the vast New England power pool has zero net effect on energy prices. The large players control that, and every, market.
~citation needed~…common sense or this expert’s opinion:
“On July 1, without a single mention in any of the
state’s newspapers, electricity transmission rates went up for CMP customers by
19.6%.
The MPUC is trying to imply this is due to the Feds, but in fact, it is
due to the MPUC-approved CMP $1.5 billion upgrade (and other transmission
projects) all approved by the MPUC in the name of ensuring reliability.
Just as they are avoiding blame by blaming the Feds, they are avoiding the
truth in that the sole reason for the need for reliability is that the old grid
is being made unreliable due to the thermal overload on lines caused by these
… remote . wind factories
They are causing tthe price of electricity to go up, we are not getting compensated to have them on our land, and the something that has to happen would be, green clean hydro. This is not europe.
Right, in Europe society works together to better itself for the benefit of all. In America people work against each other for the benefit of the few through the sweat of the majority.
Try being a Muslim in France where unemployment is 25% or a Turk in Germany where only until recently you were granted citizenship if legally born there. You don’t have a clue.
Have one of those Monstrosities thumping away and Howling a Generator whine in your back yard and you might have a different opinion!
If you like looking at wind turbines so much please feel free to move near some. They are a blight, expensive and of little benefit to the people of Maine. Go out west and see the miles and miles of old rusted out wind mills….pretty they are not.
I actually lived in an area of Germany that had a large amount of wind turbines. They were not eye sores and were pretty cool. It made me wonder why America didn’t have them because they were so useful.
You are employed by whom? A wind company?
Not everyone that supports a good thing is a shill
Why do you want Maine’s mtns covered with wind turbines? The power is expensive, env. bad to manufacture, does nothing to slow climate change because coal burning is not reduced, and we will fight in the Middle East for a number of other reasons besides oil which also is not reduced by wind power. There is no reason for wind power other than it makes a fast buck for the developers who never live near them. Europe has been at it for 15-20 years and is building nat. gas plants and has not shut down 1 coal fired plant. Denmark’s energy bills have risen 300%. Do we want this for America? I think not.
Indeed, there are many many lovely camps for sale near Lincoln, all with multi-turbine views of the ‘scenic’ Rollins Mountain project built by First wind. Wonder why no one is buying them? The camps and lakes were beautiful once. It is a shame. Mainers, don’t ruin what you have!
Actually, it’s an eyesore there, too, according to me. Your opinion is no better than mine and vice versa.
However, surveys (even in Maine) have shown that people who have positive feelings about the appearance of wind turbines also have firm beliefs about the benefits of wind turbines. i.e. would you have the same feelings about wind turbine appearance if it was just an exhibit – no electricity being produced – just 40 or 50 of them on a Maine mountain ridge for your viewing pleasure and doing nothing else? If your opinion would change, then, it’s not the appearance of turbines you find so beautiful, it’s the what you believe they are doing.
So, money will make it better, if you want to protect your view buy the land your viewing, if you cannot do that…. then it is what it is…
give him two coins to put over his eyes
hahahahaha good one Jeezum
It’s not going to ‘ruin’ his view. It’s going to change it.
True story Bangorian…true story
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
said the blind man
Do’nt like the view…turn to the right…new view…keep turning..new view
If you had a view like that in New Hampshire, you would be charged a “view tax” in addition to your very high property taxes. Rural areas there now are seeing their property taxes skyrocket because many there have a beautiful view of someone elses land they dont even own.
Agreed. I have long wondered if a blind homeowner would still be charged the extra tax.
WOW! Tell me about it!
We finally “see” something in common! ( Pardon the pun)!
I own Property with one of the best Views in Maine, yet I lost my eyesight!
Do you really think that I like being Taxed for my view when I am pressing my nose up against a computer screen for entertainment?
Driving a Porsche at 30mph, doesn’t relieve you of paying for an exotic sports car capable of running up to 165 mph! …..nice legal point, however; handicapped people have to pay for all kinds of public amenities they never use…..tell it to the gestapo, err, IRS.
Up in the county Eagle Lake they pay a “view tax” and it isn’t cheap !!!
View taxes should be illegal.
Just as imports from China undermined much of the manufacturing base and related employment in the US, the continued importation of fossil fuels from other countries (including Canada) can only have a seriously negative effect on our national economy. Maine cannot afford to spend billions p/y on imported energy and must find ways to develop its own energy sources. Since we don’t have gas or oil we might as well tap the resources we do have, wind included. Not so long ago jet noise was described as the sound of freedom. Today wind turbines may be seen as a first step towards energy independence.
Just a note: I understand Maine exports about half of the energy it currently produces. Additional energy production is for exportation – either directly or to avail current energy for exportation. Thus this question, What advantage does Maine (and it’s citizen’s) get from the development of any energy generating facility?
I’m not opposed of getting the country off from imported energy – especially oil – which we do not factor all costs of obtaining it, i.e., our military involvement which is funded via our general taxes but a major expense in the purpose of keeping the oil flowing internationally.
Require improved energy standards – energy efficiencies – improved energy construction guidelines, solar roofs, south facing exposure, individual small wind, waste to energy, and the lists goes on. Not cheap, but neither is the current situation.
Currently all the wind energy produced in Mars Hil is used within Maine and, ideally, that should be the case with any alternative energy produced in Maine. However, exporting energy still helps our economy as a portion of the revenues are retained through lease fees, taxes paid and jobs created. The energy revolution is only just beginning and the measures suggested in your last paragraph are part and parcel of it.
Ah charging windmills with $$in his eyes
Wind power is just fine and land owners don’t need to be compensated. Windmills are not horrible eyesores. Landfills, coal power plants and Barbara Streisand are horrible eyesores.
The bigger issue here is that we’re spending millions to demolish clean, functional and safe hydro power and then spending more to put up wind turbines that don’t generate as much power. Spending good money after bad.
I remember going up to the county for the first time after they put up the wind turbines on Mars Hill Mountain. I have always loved the long distances you can see in the county. On the way up I could not see the wind turbines, but could on the way south. I remember thinking OMG!!! It reminded me of the times hiking, enjoying nature then a huge devastated clear cut by the loggers. Yes, it is a change. Does anyone really think this is going to lower electricity costs? Most likely not.
Wind energy is not reliable or an important part of energy production at less than 1 %. It is however, a drain on government resources. It was pushed in the seventies and failed and now we are being fed an outdated energy program and it is being forced down our throats . We have plenty of energy in Maine. Why should we ruin the beauty of our state to send energy to Massachusetts? We send them close to half right now. Let them put up their own windmills. No more government money to support a losing operation. Why should a few greedy owners be the only ones to profit from this losing idea?
It did not fail in the 1970’s Reagan and the GOP destroyed that industry and those jobs in the 1908’s
There are 238,000 MW of installed wind power capacity worldwide and it’s growing at 20% per year.
A fad it is not.
Please try to keep up.
Yessah
Will you stop. You are so way off base! Why don’ you blame your liberal buddies for something. Oh I forgot you think they are perfect! Far from it that’s for sure!
I am well informed and do not make inane comments.
Others – not so much.
Yessah
Oh, inane it is.
Not inane, just poorly informed. But that is easily remedied if you’ll just pay better attention to current information.
Thanks for listening.
I assume by including “yessah” in all your posts, you are a native Mainer from the coast? Or is it just a ruse?
We beg to disagree, just restore the ‘s’ to inane and we’ll recommend meds.
You just made one.
Yeah, it’s a fad alright and it only works part time, kills millions of birds and we are shipping the energy created out of state. How can you love this mess?
You have it only partly correct. Yes Reagan stopped investing in it BUT it was because it was economically counter productive and fiscally irresponsible for the gov’t to waste money on it. Today the rest of the world is now having to admit the same thing. http://www.civitas.org.uk/press/prleaelectricityprices.htm.
Thanks for listening
The 3 rivers gorge power project is now fully operational and producing approx.
84.7 billion kilowatt-hours a year. …… so how many wind turbines is that worth?
And changed the earth’s rotation over a degree and displaced 3 million people who were living fine until their towns were flooded. China is no model for anything. Their wind turbine industry is growing but their carbon emissions will double by 2030 despite the foolish investment in wind. China will build 8 lane highways to nowhere and cities for no one. Wind turbines make perfect sense to a country whose mad rush to modernize ignors supply and demand. Just as long as the government is subsidizing an industry, things get built. America should know better.
Moonbat…who do you work for? Wind or Reed and Reed?
As it pertains to subsidies, look no further than the gas pump to see where the largest subsidies are being spent. Renewable energy sector is merely enjoying what fossil fuel energy has taken advantage of since their inception. Level the playing field and toss all subsidies out the window I say.
Should landowners blocked by people who think they own the view be compensated for lost income?
Nobody owns the view. If you want to tell someone how to use their land be prepared to sit down and be quiet when the same happens to you.
That is the nature of private property. The nature of good neighborliness is we think of others as well as ourselves. Together this is what makes true freedom work in this country. The cabin owner asked and was turned down. He did not yell and scream (as some here are doing), just accepted the answer was not ideal for him.
Thanks for listening.
Anhata sounds like a Mad Hatter !
how about a wahh-mburger and some french cries?…
If you want to determine the view, buy it! Don’t tell me I can’t get off the couch and use my assets to get me off welfare.
Those that enjoy the serenity of the lakes of Maine should sue the land owners who build those awful looking man made structures along the shores of these lakes. It occupies hoards of people, disrupts the wildlife, pollutes the waters and diminishes the beauty of the landscape. That; and it invites others to build more of these structures till the whole shoreline is covered in them.
Replace Maine Yankee and we wouldn’t be in this dilemma. Say what you ant about safety and cost, but this country has never had a major issue with nuclear power since the close call at 3 mile island, and nuclear power technology has come a long way since then, and there are no greenhouse gasses emitted . But unfortunately nuke power is not the popular answer. At least the Canadians are smart enough to build them just across the border, and sell us the power at their price.
Dear Mr.
Anahata,
You cannot own a “view”.
But if you could, you sure seem like the type that would charge your neighbors for looking at it.
Just saying.
Signed,
The Anti-Smuggery League
No one owns the view. But inappropriate industrial projects that ruin the uniqueness of Maine are way past the margin of acceptability. This state doesn’t even do billboards for heaven’s sake! It’s a case of environmental injustice, and I think the landowner conflicts that erupt in all these cases are indicative of how serious this issue is.
Part of the cost is the cost to the local landowners. If land is devalued for any reason for public good (environmental rezoning, windmills, etc.); it seems logical that the individual should not bear that cost alone. It might be a family’s lifetime investment.
For the record, I am in favor of strict environmental protection zoning, windmills, small business, families and against corporation tax loopholes and transporting manufacturing jobs overseas.
Much of this losing wind energy source is exempt from federal income tax. However the oil and gas companies pay some $26 billion a year. in taxes. Now they want to extend the wind exemption for another four years. We have to stop these special interest carve outs. Just because they sell us a bill of goods that wind needs one last push to be sustainable does not make it so. We need to tell Mr. King that we will not be stuck with this 1970’s energy policy. Who will pay to take down these monstrosities several years from now when they prove to be unsustainable?
quess
It’s all about big wind mafia, shills and bought out Maine newspapers.
Indeed..Thankyou Baldi and King Angus…
A wind turbine needs a subsidy like a bicycle needs a fish.
The life of the TIF and the life of windmills are approximately the same.
A TIF usually has two portions, money given back to the corporation, which is unfair to the other taxpayers who pay full rate and is basically corporate welfare.
The second portion of a TIF is not used to cover the expenses such as schools, roads, etc. that everyone else has to pay for, but instead is used to give the local municipalities a slush fund to spend outside of the normal budgeting process.
If the project makes sense it should not be subsidized by the taxpayers, but should live on its own.
Knowing the Penobscot County Commissioners, I am confident that they will hold a meeting with the Unorganized Territory Property Tax Division to understand the tax implications of this TIF. There are two sides to this story. I also find it curious that they are now requesting 30 year TIFs instead of 20 year TIFs. What is the life of these windmills?
Why should wind developers get paid (TIFS) to destroy Maine?
Why do so many folks from states further south flock to Maine for vacations and second homes, cabins, camps etc? It surely must be the wondrous beauty of all those 40 story windmills lining all the mountain ridges—NOT!
http://www.keepitgrand.org
I wonder if the people who own camps along the shores of Moose Head Lake can sue Plumb Creak for that resort they’re about to build and ruin the view? Can a land owner sue the owners of a hydro dam for making their land worthless for flooding it under water? Can a landowner sue CMP or another company for ruining their view by running power lines throughout the state coming from those hydro dams? Can a land owner sue a mini mall for obstructing their view of the fields/woods across the road? Can someone sue their neighbor for putting up a fence blocking a view of their yard? hmmm All sarcasm aside; I’d prefer a wind tower as opposed to other more harmful measures to feed our insatiable demand for power.
Make no mistake , our electricity bills will go up exponentially to pay for the new transmission lines just for wind farms. Starting in Orrington? This document proves that the grid was at capacity when the second wind farm Stetson was built in ME.Bottleneck in Orrington. The turbines only have a 20 year life span, so this was truly putting the cart before the horse. Please don’t censor .
United States of America Before the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission Docket Np. ERO8-19O-OOO
Type it in and see that the bottleneck is in Orrington and power can go no further south. We were already exporting power before we had wind farms. Guess it went to Canada…where the power from the Mars Hill wind farm goes.
Why can’t these things be put on tall buildings in cities or tall bridges that are already eyesores to the environment , and the distance to a substation or grid is already there instead of having to run lines through our natural forest for multitudes of miles,scarring and changing the landscapes forever-there are many places these units could be put where no one would even notice or care about, where noise pollution and horrendous skylines are already present and these would just blend in. It would seem logic has forsaken mankind once again.
Wind Projects are illegal taking of properties within 3 miles. TIF settlements should go to the damaged property owners ! TIF is a farce as now utilized for wind, it should be declared illegal for these heaviy subsidized scamming wind developers and interlopers.
The least that must be done is to COMPENSATE THE DAMAGED, BEFORE MORE SUITS DEVELOP!
Settlements of damages are not disclosed because of wind company required squelch clauses in the settlements,thus far.
Make the wind settlements part of the public record!
Wind projects in low ambient noise rural areas (and everywhere they are placed) cause low frequency noise (not recognized by the DEP even though there have been numerous secret legal settlements in Mars Hill for this problem). Chapter 375 industrial noise regulations are not recognizing the infra – sound issue, even though acoustic experts world-wide do).
The Expedited Wind law is heinous wind cartel driven junk legislation of 2008.
All affected properties within 3 miles of these noise generators on mountaintops suffer value loss directly or indirectly. Recreational lake properties affected lose value and use.
Properties with extreme adverse affects should be bought at market value by the offending parties, which include the DEP of Maine since they obviously are causing problems by non-scientific placement,
There are numerous suits working their way through the courts, and class action suits are in serious discussion stages state- wide.
The affected parties are considered necessary “Road Kill” for the” renewable future” of Maine, when one or two natural gas generator facilities could eliminate the total need for this feckless subsidy scam of this administration.
I want it on the bumper!
This Tom Davis who said “that’s the American way” in approving the trampling of citizens’ rights belongs in a public stockade.
Listening to the video clip is quite illuminating. TIF’s are complex, but in the end, why should the wind developers get even more tax breaks? They already get government grants and subsidies. They already sell ‘virtual power’ (renewable energy credits – REC’s) for 100% capacity while only operating at 30%. I don’t buy the idea that county commissioners will find a better way to invest the tax dollars than Augusta. TIF’s are totally inappropriate in a rural area like this. Let them pay their taxes.
I will side with Governor LePage on this one- The Governors position is that we need to look at all forms of energy, just as long as they doesn’t survive on tax breaks.