I’ve listened to lots of talk to gather facts about the costs and benefits of the proposed east-west highway. Lots of new information came out this past weekend at the open forum in Dexter, which stood in stark contrast to the prior orchestrated event in Dover-Foxcroft, which dismissed the possibility of open public engagement.
Public concerns about the social, economic and environmental costs and benefits continue to weigh on the minds of many community members: local farmers, Christmas tree growers, business owners, wildlife managers and public officials. These people have concerns about rural development in a rural region that knows economic distress, but they also know the priceless, enduring values of community, local culture and environment, small businesses, self-sufficiency and neighborly helpfulness.
I’m not sure Peter Vigue of Cianbro Corp. grasps the depth and breadth of local values, concerns and rural intelligence when he admonishes us, as he did at the Dover-Foxcroft forum, to accept his rural poverty declaration about us, look at his proposal for an east-west highway and simply “do the math.”
So, will local questions and concerns be heard in the formulation and conduct of the $300,000 state feasibility study? Or will that be shaped by the Maine Department of Transportation, the executive branch and Vigue? Local participation in this largely private process does not seem likely from the responses offered at the more recent Dexter forum. I argue that Maine commitment implies public engagement.
That the feasibility process is being openly questioned is no accident, and it’s not coming from some enviro-liberal fringe. It’s coming from rural people from all walks of life, often holding divergent points of view. They see the ever-changing nature of what is being proposed, and they see the proposition process is not as transparent as the proponents would like us to believe it is.
What started as a highway idea to facilitate the shipment of Canadian commerce between the Maritimes and Montreal has opened up into something potentially bigger than one more highway. Other viable, highly profitable prospects have subsequently come into public view: oil pipeline, telecom, electrical power and water continue to surface as corridor economic development possibilities.
These are money makers, too, all having potential economic realities. I had not considered the possibility that the highway could just as easily facilitate the transport of Quebec-Maritimes fracked oil. It could easily support the export of our marginally protected pristine lake waters, out of state and out of country, to water-starved areas of the world.
A highway is one thing. I get that. For the past 20 years in my rural development work, it was known that highway infrastructure for commerce and tourism, north-south out of Piscataquis County, needed improvements to enhance local economic development. But east-west? That’s going in the wrong direction. That’s about Canada, not rural Maine’s markets to the south.
It was also known that improved east-west rail infrastructure would have a positive impact on rural development. Couple the fact that trains get 470 miles per gallon per ton of freight, compared with 155 miles per gallon per ton for trucks. Trains outcompete trucks on fuel efficiency.
So, why would anyone want to kill rail efficiencies and jobs with an east-west highway? Given the huge economic and political power that oil, electric, telecom and water future realities hold for those with the bucks to get those assets flowing, these options appear to be viable economic activities that could enrich the profitability of the corridor, while bisecting our towns, our back 40 acres, maybe our backyards.
And it will most certainly fracture our highly cherished rural quality of life with little evidence of demonstrated local economic benefit.
How will Vigue and the DOT account for this in the feasibility study? Or maybe we got the math wrong again, that effect on rural quality of life is simply not up for consideration in the pending economic feasibility agenda.
Given all the unanswered questions and growing public concerns, one thing seems pretty apparent: The public continues to ask Vigue and the state for a more open, ongoing dialogue about what is being presented in the east-west corridor proposal, which some would argue is a highway going in the wrong direction.
Roger Merchant is a retired rural development specialist from Glenburn.
Couple the fact that trains get 470 miles per gallon per ton of
freight, compared with 155 miles per gallon per ton for trucks. Trains
outcompete trucks on fuel efficiency.
I had this discussion with a liberal friend the other evening at diner. He was unable to answer this question. What benefit is there to ship a product by train and have it set in a rail yard for three weeks before it can be delivered? Using a truck I can get my product from a vendor 500 miles away in less than 48 hours use it my manufacturing process and deliver it to my customer in another 24.
Trains are a fantasy from another era when people had time to deliver a product when inventory can be held for weeks or longer. These days vendors expect to get paid within terms of delivery, not 3 weeks later.
Is this a case of big government being good? We build this highway so various industries can profits? If that’s fine and it’s all for the benefit of the community, is that a case of communism being good?
This is just a case of business being able to be profitable as a result of other businesses that came before paying the taxes that built the roads to begin with. No communism yet. I still run my business. Good capitalists built those roads you drive on.
Oh, I guess I missed the aspect of the story where this was going to be a private highway built by business owners. The public is paying for this. So it’s a case of businesses being able to profit because the public paid taxes and built that road.
It’s funny that you lay all praise at the feet of capitalism when public roads (along with the officers that patrol them) are socialist in nature. We all built these roads. We all pay taxes. Quit taking credit for what’s not yours — it’s petty and shows you have an unwarranted sense of entitlement.
Bizzare upside down thought process there. Road have been built and maintained by people long before Marx set his ideas to paper. Sorry capitalism was here first.
Haha, nice try. The public built the roads, not corporations and not businesses. That’s socialist in nature — you can’t get around it and you can’t take sole credit for it. It’s pretty sad that you can’t even give credit where it’s due and say that yes, government can be good and that it is a very necessary element needed for capitalism to function.
Good for you for running a business. That’s great. But you didn’t build the roads I drive on. We all did. We all pay for the people who write and enforce the laws. Not just you and not just businessmen. Quit being petty and acting like an entitled child.
Bizzare… Roads are always a community effort. There is nothing Communist about that. Of course business is not taking sole credit…. You seem to be trying awful hard to say we are. Why is that?
regarding business:
If my business were to go under would that be my responsibility or the Governments?
“This is just a case of business being able to be profitable as a result of other businesses that came before paying the taxes that built the roads to begin with. No communism yet. I still run my business. Good capitalists built those roads you drive on.”
That’s exactly where you said that. It can be found simply by scrolling upwards. We all built the roads, not just businesses for the sake of helping other businesses. If you notice, the public pays taxes for the roads. When the road needs repair, the public pays for that. When the road needs patrolling, the public pays for that. “Good capitalists” aren’t the sole ones footing the bill. So again, nice try. It IS a community effort and for that reason, regardless of how it has always been that way, it is socialist in nature. I know it’s so painful for you to say that and to say that the government is good and essential — but that’s fact.
I didn’t once say we’re entirely socialistic, but we are in some aspects. You wouldn’t have a business if it wasn’t for the government. You need that system in place, we all do — unless you wanted to come up with your own form of currency, law enforcement patrol, roads etc. There is nothing wrong with all that though.
I know it’s painful to hear! I’m sorry!
Sorry we have a capitalist systems. Even you are one Comrade.
Capitalist elements, my sweet friend. Not entirely capitalist. Otherwise we’d pay tolls on all roads, pay a private company for the ability to call the fire department or 911, big banks would go bankrupt if they failed, oil companies would clean up their own spills, etc.
I know it’s too hard for you to admit that you need the government and that the public creates the system that allows you to succeed, so I won’t keep pestering you. Night.
Listen being a capitalist does not preclude a need for government. If that is your argument I return to my earlier descriptions of your ideas as bizarre. We all need government and rules to live by. That is not a communist notion. I thinks that you constructed an idea of conservatism and small government advocates are somehow anti- all government. Of course that is a twisted view of how we think. We are just simply anti-BIG government.
No, I was more just alarmed by the fact that you were trying to pretend that businesses will create the east/west highway for the same reason that they created all other roads — so they could be profitable as business. The fact is that businesses play the same exact role that the average citizen does in creating roads, unless, again, I missed the part where this would be a private or quasi-private highway.
There is nothing twisted about how I’m viewing you. I asked you questions and made very straight forward statements and it took you more than several comments to admit that government is good and necessary. We’re not purely capitalist though. This isn’t a black/white thing.
Cheesy you have never been conservative enough for me, and now I know why. You believe that people left to their own devises (without some nanny to referee them) would turn to anarchy. Reagan said government should be decreased in size until we could strangle it in its crib.
People are afraid to do anything on their own now-a-days. I guess we will never know if we could compromise enough to live without a governing body.
Of course, I believe in the right to abortion, suicide, removal of drug laws, and survival Darwin style.
The American Constitution Lists the Army, Navy, Post offices and Postal Roads as being within the power of Congress as well as Commerce being Regulated by Congress with the Right to Coin Money and to Tax!
You cant get much more Socialist than That!
Oh yeah!
Private enterprise is listed as given the right to it’s inventions for a -( Limited) -Time!
Karl Marx was a Journalist who asked his London Employer for a raise to support his children.
The guy refused.
Karl Marx then when out on his own and wrote the Communist Manifesto.
Half the world followed!
Communism Historically comes from the ashes of Capitalism out of control!
“Oh, I guess I missed the aspect of the story where this was going to be a private highway built by business owners.”
You’re kidding, right?
According to the Can Am Study Vigue cites so frequently our dependeceon trucking is one of the things that puts us at a significant disadvantage in trade.
“Furthermore, the cost premium associated with trucking is exacerbated and the rail
cost advantage is mitigated by the fact the NE CanAm region relies more heavily on
truck and less so on rail than the rest of US and Canada as a whole.”
Executive Summary p 7
http://www.canamconnections.com/
The wisdom, for us, says that report is rail..
the present major transportation disadvantage for us is
no rail.
This report was comissioned by,included and has the concureence of the MDOT.
This report makes Vigue’s dog & pony show an incomprehensibly off the mark presentation on economics and opportunity for our region.
The report may say rail…. but the money and time say truck. I am able to produce my product in a timely fashion simply because we have a really nice highway system that connects me to my customers in Portland New Hampshire and beyond. I am able to take in an order from a customer in NH on a Monday afternoon get raw materials here by truck from New York on a Wednesday morning and ship my finished product scheduled for delivery Thursday morning. There is no way a train could handle either side of that scheduling need.
Reports are all well and good but we have a couple unique problems in the central Maine area. One we don’t have the large population producing enough goods to support a profitable system for a return train trip. Secondly once you get get to Bangor there is no destination beyond us we essentially the end of the economic line.
I can’t help but wonder if there is some business I could be doing over the border in New Brunswick if we had the highway.
Cheesecake,
May I ask what your product is?
As discussed in some depth across all product groups on which our economy in Maine relies, reliance on trucking adds too much to product costs to make the majority of our products price competitive. My recollection is that it adds 46% on averahe to cost of any product across the board.
That means we cannot deliver our our products and goods at a competitive price .
The fuzzy math Vigue keeps pushing on this idea that saving two hours on the trip to Montreal will make a huge difference in that for Maine is just absurd. The experts..the real experts, not the asphalt lobby John Melrose, Maria Fuentes, Cianbro and crew have said over and over and over..it just isn’t so.
This highway simply is not the answer for the economic depression and loss of basic industries in northern Maine,
It just isn’t.
That is the truth.
“The fuzzy math Vigue keeps pushing on this idea that saving two hours on the trip to Montreal will make a huge difference in that for Maine is just absurd.”
This is what Vigue said at the Dover Foxcroft meeting:
It costs a lot of money per hour to run a tractor trailer rig. I can’t remember the exact figure now, but it was in the neighborhood of $150-$200 per hour (anyone who knows the exact figure, please don’t hesitate to correct me). So knocking off two hours, one way, results in $300-$400 in savings per trip. Some businesses have many many trucks, and make many many trips per year. When talking about hundreds of dollars saved per trip on thousands of trips, you’re beginning to see some real savings…. millions of dollars per year, in fact, for single companies such as the Lincoln paper mill, even with the cost of the toll figured in. Vigue used the Lincoln mill as a prime example after having heard these savings figures from the plant’s CEO himself. Those millions of dollars in savings can be used to reinvest in the plant, or in higher wages for workers, or in any number of economically beneficial ways. Now take the millions of dollars in savings that one company can realize and multiply that by scores of companies, and the economic impact becomes significant indeed.
Do you know why a lot of goods are shipped by truck ?? ile tell you why thats because the railroads in Maine can not supply the cars they need an ive seen it first hand i use to work for a railroad . The company would call an say we need 25 cars the railroad would say sorry we can only give you 10 so the company would half to get on the phone an call trucking companies to come in to hall there goods .
“the present major transportation disadvantage for us is no rail.”
There is no rail because businesses here prefer to use trucking…. why do you suppose that is the case, if rail is so cost effective? It’s interesting — since you are not a producer of goods, it could be difficult for you to enlighten us on the advantages of rail over trucking for the average Maine producer; whereas Cheesecake is a producer, who uses the system first hand every business day, but you dispute everything he says.
“dependeceon trucking is one of the things that puts us at a significant disadvantage in trade..”
How so?
Brandon I have sent you the link to the canreport so many times Brandon..that is the answer to “your how so”..and you know it..
http://www.canamconnections.com/
Do you think repeated posts that attack or provide false characterizations on the writer or worse false distortions of what they have said and posts like “prove it” contribute anything useful or further the public interests in any setting at all Brandon..not just here but anywhere?
Good manners are the universal passport Brandon.
Your argument doesn’t really hold water. The vast majority of goods sold in this country are brought here by containership (even better fuel/tonnage ratio than rail). The ships dock and the containers go on trucks (for short haul) and rail (for long haul). Once the rail gets to it’s distribution center the containers are transferred to local trucks for delivery. It’s called intermodal transportation, and it’s been around for a while now.
I agree if you are whittling genuine Maine Weather Sticks, then UPS or Fedex would probably be a better transportation model. But if you are moving large volume long distance, than rail is the answer.
Better yet follow the move to short sea shipping for transport up and down the Eastern Seaboard (where trucking is a nightmare).
Sure it does. It allows me to employ people. A train simply cannot do what I do. Guaranteed. The system I operate in is called ” in time” production. It was first used in mid-west auto manufacturers that built parts for the auto industry. It is not only a production model it is a financial one. The idea is to not tie up capital in inventory allowing a shorter time between manufacture and delivery to customer. It reduces the need for warehouse space and provides a build to order environment. I may not be a big employer but in Maine there aren’t very many big employers. This system works for me.
One last thing if trains were so efficient then why can’t they make a financial go of it in Maine?
Cheesecake..many of your comments in support of trucking are based on your product, your business..Could you share with us what that product is and where you are located.
Cheesecake..there will always be an interstate and theres will always be trucks and there will always be a way to ship . But across all industry and product in Maine, continuing our reliance on trucking just makes no sense.
Any business premised on reliance on trucking is at risk if its market isn’t very close and growing fast or there isn’t a short haul to a port..as shipping contiues to be the cheapest way to move product long distances.
You are right, our rail system is not in a condition at the moment to support Maine’s existing businesses as a principal distribution system
What many of us are saying here is let’s invest in fixing that so that we can move freight within Maine and out to markets via higher speed modern rail.
Who would pay for this high speed rail? Cheesecake has a pretty good grasp on shipping freight in today’s climate. Not much has changed since I worked as a teamster truck driver years back. Rail has very limited use for other than very large manufacturers. They do use rail for” piggyback” operations in which they place a trailer on the rail. This is usually for long haul operations, not LTL or less than trailer load.
The logistics of moving freight can be very complicated. There are many companies that do just that to help shippers save money.
Hello EveryRN..nice to meet you and to have your voice here in these discussions.
I am very happy that the debate has finally moved beyond the tree huggers vs jobs rhetoric on which Vigue’s E/W toll road and utility corridor has been advanced to a more substantive focus on what actually caused the collapse of the forest products based economy in northern Maine and what we can do now to rebuild a thriveable economy for this part of the state.
Certainly transportation is a part of the problem and long term plans must be part of the solution. But there are market fundamentals which caused the collapse and if northern Maine is once again to have a strong economic base what we choose do with the tools we have available to facilitate and stimulate that matters critically.
Any consideration of using those tools on the E/W Highway is a misue of public leverage, in my opinion. It continues Maine’s kong and well established history of serving the profiteers ahead of the State’s people.
It is time to turn that around.
The Privatization Statute (Title 23 Section 4251)which Cianbro, John Melrose, Maria Fuentes and the asphalt lobby wrote for themselves in 2010 and got passed with no public notice or public hearings applies to all transportation..including rail.
Instead of wasting our precious and dwindling public resources ( every hour of public employee labor is a public resource; every dolar of that $300,000 matters) on Vigue’s absurd truck dependent plan that offers no benefit for Maine and possible harm to existing businesses according to all previous expert studies, why aren’t we looking at using that statute to seek out the possibility of private investment in rail? We already have the right of way and it already connects what were and will be the major economic centers. We already have a substantial public investment in that rail paid for with tax payer $.
After the original run of expert studies on the wisdom of a Calais to Coburn Gore route, Governor King and MDOT agreed that a more comprehensive multi modal plan made sense for the state and for in state benefits and much of what has happened since has been about implementing that plan..the Brewer inter change and the Calais border crossing improvement , the upgrade of route 9, the acquisition of right of way expansion along route 2 and 9 were elements of that. Here is the Governor’s summary which concurs with the expert reports we the people paid for in 1999.
http://www.maine.gov/mdot/1999eastwesthwystudy/govspeech.htm
There is another study, by Harvard Business School (or Harvard Law) that I had hoped to post and will by edit if I can find it before this conversation closes. It was a terrific anaylsis of what caused the collapse of the forest products industry in northern Maine..simply put the big land holders/mill owners decided it was cheaper and easier to produce pulp and paper and harvest wood in warmer climes where there were no unions and a plentiful supply of cheap labor.
That is our truth
That is what happened.
What followed as a “close out ” to that decision by big landholders and mill owners was “liquidation harvesting” and our legislative response to that was incomplete..we simply forbade liquidation harvesting without fully addressing the broader implications of what would happen as the value and use of our timberland would then shift to other non forbidden exploitations and speculations..
That set the stage for Plum Creek and this false tree huggers vs jobs premise on which Vigue is trying to advance this E/W Highway. That is a false premise. That is a manipulative device a smokescreen for attempting to silence and discredit anyone who challenges the economic benefit for Maine of the 4 lane Calais to to Coburn Gore tollway and utility corridor.
What we needed back then, what we need now, is a more comprehensive strategy for rebuilding the economic vitality of our former growth centers which for all the reasons they became growth centers in the first place makes them the place to invest now and envisioning a modern infrastructure geared to the long term viability of these centers.
That is not Vigue’s E/W highway.
We need to stop wasting time and effort even talking about that highway and get down to all talking about what we still need more than anything which is a comprehensive, community driven plan for restoration of our natural growth centers.
When we do that..when we start looking together at the fundamentals of rebuilding these growth centers anf final Vigue’s E/W Highway will die a natural death and vanish from the center stage of our debate and discussions because it is not even vaguely relevant to revitalization of these centers.
It’s just the latest version of Plum Creek. the latest version of the speculative landholders trying to maximize profit and return on their holdings.
That is all it is.
We need to keep our eye on the real prize the real goal which is revitalizing all of our natural growth centers in northern Maine.
“What we needed back then, what we need now, is a more comprehensive strategy for rebuilding the economic vitality of our former growth centers…”
No, Lindsay…. contrary to your claim that you have turned your focus to “what we can do now to rebuild a thriveable economy for this part of the state,” you continue to dodge the tough question of what you would do to employ the one out of ten fellow Mainers who lack jobs. Simply stating that “we need a more comprehensive strategy” is not a solution. It’s stalling, and rhetorical nonsense.
So tell us, please, what would you do to improve the dreadful economy of this state and provide jobs for poverty stricken Mainers who choose to work but don’t have a job?
“What many of us are saying here is let’s invest in fixing that so that we can move freight within Maine and out to markets via higher speed modern rail….”
Are you saying Maine taxpayers need to foot the expensive bill for fixing the rails, Lindsay? If rail is so critical to the infrastructure, and is so cost effective that all that is necessary to drive the trucking competition into the ground is a little bit of investment, then why haven’t the railroads made those investments themselves? I’m more of the opinion that trucking has soundly beaten railroads in the competition for freight.
why doesn’t it make sense? if you have a point to point delivery and it isnt on a major rail hub then you will have to pay another company to provide local delivery service which will kill you bottom line. If you get a dedicated rail system setup point to point for dedicated product but then that product needs to start going to another facility rails do not have any flexibility in delivery alteration not to mention then you need to find a transfer hub/warehouse on that particular rail to pay to cross dock your stuff. there are positives and negatives to both transportation systems but in the end to say one is completely superior to the other or the other “just doesnt make sense” is once again a sweeping generalization.
Hi Tom,
I try to avoid sweeping generalizations so if I am guilty thanks for the heads up.
As a one time planner and as someone creating public policy and legislation for decades I
am very aware that all policy, all programs, all plans involve a sort of tyranny of the majority,a tyranny of” the most well served” even in the best of circumstances.
Perhaps in larger more densley populated areas this “tyranny of the most” is not so apparent and consequential. But something of this scale and nature that proposes to go straight through the heart of Maine the little villages and towns and communities are each unique economies with unique businesses arising from indigenous culture and skill and every single one is important in maintaining te whole community.
So even in any debate on rail vs trucking those public policy choices on which mode and which routes to throw public support behind will be very “bumpy” in result at the community level throughout northern Maine. At the level of individual businesses this is even more true.
Although he hasn’t shared his details, I have no no doubt that Cheesecake speaks the trut when he says for his business and his location truck is the only viable choice. The public policy question though inevitably involves the “tyranny of the most” and decisions which are not completely inclusive or completely equal in “public benefit”.
Economic and transportation experts who have looked at this particular route before have said that the infrastructure strategy that best serves the most is to work to a well linked modern high speed rail system with appropriate truck freight and shipping connections.
So you are right it is never as simple as truck vs rail vs freight..it involves the design and enhancement of a very complex system that links up and supports the centers already well positioned for growth and it involves multi modal strategies.
BTW have you heard of Amazons new business model? Previously they were avoiding collecting sales tax for the states. They could do that by not having a physical presence in each state. Now that they need to collect sales tax for so many different entities they are moving distribution centers from small states closer to population centers. The idea is yes they will collect taxes but also provide same day delivery of product to their customers with home courier delivery.
http://fox13now.com/2012/07/13/amazon-to-focus-on-same-day-delivery-collection-of-sales-tax-in-more-states/
Small business have been endangered by the states need to collect more taxes. Did they really even the playing field one wonders?
Cheesecake
Under commerce law amazon or any other ebusiness only has to collect sales taxes on within state sales..the principal is that a state cannot extend its laws beyond its own jurisdictions.
Collecting, reporting and then transmitting taxes is a nusiance for any business sp of course that would favor Amazon or any major e business preferring states that do not have sales taxes..like NH., for instance.
As for trucking..you have it right. Trucking only works when it involves short hauls to dense large markets.
From Northern Maine to anywhere it is not and will never be a short haul to major population center that will make trucking make sense.
Continued reliance on trucking will condemn us to limited expannsion of of our current out of state markets.
That is the truth.
“That is the truth.”
Prove it, please.
Please explain why shipping freight from northern maine on trailer trucks doesnt make sense.
Are you saying shipping from lincoln maine to say… NYC doesnt make sense? or how about to IL/OH/WI/MO for that matter?
I don’t think your informed enough to make such broad stroke comments.
Tom,
I am only referring to what nationally recogized experts have said about Vigue’s version of the East West Highway. The issue of dependence on truckingis catually from Wibur & Associates Can Report, 2010, funded by MDOT who concurr with all its observations and conclusions.
Here it is once again for you and anyone else to read.
http://www.canamconnections.com/
I have just read the Feasibility Study RFP for the $300K study we taxpayers are funding. One if the principal tasks is to look at all the assumptions of and conclusions of these past expert reports once again. Nothing has changed since 2010 so I would be very surprised if the feasibility study in nay way contradicts the past finding that ths will have marginal if any benefit for Maine and possibly have a negative impact on many small commercial centers.
Yes it dose hold water . You take a box car loaded here in Maine say north of Bangor . Now that car is halled to Northen Maine jct. now that car gets picked up there say 9 hrs later. Now it takes the train 4 hrs to go from there to Waterville or more . Now that car will sit in the yard up till 11pm an now that train thats going to portland takes 8 to 10 hrs to get to portland .
Wolly,
Across all the products that northern Maine depends on rail trucking adds too much to final cost to make the products price competitive in the market place. That is the truth.
That has been documented.
That is why the entire premise of the East West Highway that Vigue wants..a four lane limited access toll road Calais to Coburn Gore is false. It doesn’t make sense economically for Maine. It will produce no benefit for Maine.
It is not the answer.
Worse, past studies, all of which are available at the East West Highway page of the MDOT’s excellent website, have concluded that the highway would actually harm many businesses through traffic diversion.
On economic terms, the highway offers no benefit and possible harm to Maine.
That is the truth.
It is also worth mentioning that originally Vigue stated that the Highway would be a NON-STOP route thru Maine, from Coburn to Calais. Now suddenly this Highway has 6 interchanges, and is planned for 2 to be added ‘at a future date’. Who does Vigue think he’s kidding or hiding from ? Public opinion and education is forcing this monster to be seen for what it really is, namely a huge give-away to the Canadian trucking and utility companies that want a ‘Gov’t free’ ( When you actually read The Act you see that Maine gives up ALL SOVEREIGNTY over the whole ROW) ROW to NB and NS that they would otherwise have to pay market rates for and be subject to appropriate oversight and management. That or build their route’s along the St Lawrence and then go south. No, Vigue got caught with his, and Cianbro’s, ‘short’s’ down and they don’t want to take the inevitable (at this rate less than 6 months to go) public woodshed smacking that they’ve earned thru their arrogance and bullying. Instead of working with what’s available, Vigue tried to bully his way with intimidation, and bribing his way, tactic’s into this. Now he’s been seen for what he is. And given the fact that he’s been caught here, it’s a fair bet that he’s also being seen in Canada the same way. If he thought Maine was a PITA as far as getting caught, and we have a currently spin-cycled Governor to deal with, how much tougher is Vigue and Cianbro gonna find Ottawa and the Provincial Governor’s who now have a preview of Vigue’s tactic’s ? The same can be asked of Vigue’s supposed partner’s in this, namely Irving. Guilt by association is nasty but if you’re in the sty when the slop is dumped, you’ed better be ready to get dumped on since you’re there in the 1st place. And Bald Mountain is a pretty big sty to get caught in when you think about it.
Mike,
I agree with all you have said here and elsewhere except I do not agree that Irving and Bald Mountain figure into this at all. In the Louis Berger?Vigue “Confidential Feasibility Study”they indicate that they had contacted Irving and that his interests were in North South routes not E/W routes.
Of course the tar snads refinery thing may chnage that if it is Irugs refinerieries that would be processing the tar sands trucked through from Endbridge’s pipeline terminus in Montreal to the refineries in the maritimes. At the moment they are looking to rail for that. And I can’t imagine that trucking could ever be feasible for that.
This is about the speculative interests of a few major speculative landholders interests who stand to reap $ 1billion in leasing fees..Echo Enterprises LLC who control the 2000′ easement corridor on which the Stud Mill Rd sits, Kennebec West Forest LLC ( wish I knew who there parent company is) who won all the former international paper alnd in the east and under the stud mill, as well as much of the land approaching the Greenville and Coburn gore exit, and Plum Creek who own the land contiguous with Kennebec’s . These interests and perhap a few others who have logging roads are already haevily involved in earnings from utility corridors..Kennebec partnered with Trans Canada ( the Tar sand people)on Kibbe Wind and Vigue has been in the mix one way or another on construction projects or his own projects.
( By the way my $ 1billion is an estimate based on the stated $353million gain cited by Echo in court papers as their return on the E/W Hway baesd on the length of the stud mill and a quick gazeteer based mileage measure from N/W of Bangor where these large land holdings begin)
Why do you care so much about what private landowners stand to earn from the use of their own land?
“Vigue tried to bully his way with intimidation, and bribing his way…”
So now you’ve moved from simple amateur economic musings to accusing Vigue of bribery. No, there’s no incivility from the anti-highway folks in this debate, no personal attacks, nothing but polite and reasonable discourse, isn’t that how you characterize yourself? I would not have wanted to be a citizen in the area where you worked as a cop, since you obviously consider people to be guilty until proven innocent.
I wonder if your expertise at international diplomacy is any greater than your expertise as a cop (“how much tougher is Vigue and Cianbro gonna find Ottawa and the Provincial Governor’s who now have a preview of Vigue’s tactic’s?”). Somehow, I get the feeling that Vigue has a far better understanding of these international leaders than you do, since he actually meets with them, and speaks with them. How many provincial governors have you shared your grouchy comments with lately?
“trucking adds too much to final cost to make the products price competitive in the market place.”
Lindsay, please explain why businesses avoid using rail and instead use trucking in Maine, if rail is such a godsend. Why is the rail system in Maine in such deplorable condition if it is such a critical component of our survival?
And please, answer the question instead of telling us that some so-called expert said so in some long lost study commissioned by a government that you consider to be corrupt and incompetent.
If rail is so cost-effective for Maine businesses, then why do Maine businesses avoid using rail to the point that the rail system in the state is on the verge of total collapse?
You have a Liberal friend?????
You post is spot on…
Keep up the great work.
Thanks, He can’t help it. He is a product of his environment.
Rail works quite well in places that have historically invested more heavily in rail development, even for businesses like yours that employ the JIT model. The reason rail is so slow here is because we have essentially the same system that was present in the early half of the 20th century. The Europeans and others continued to develop rail infrastructure, while America tended toward roads and over-the-road trucking, because throughout most of the 1900’s the price of oil wasn’t much of a concern. Of course, the cost of changing that now is almost prohibitively expensive, but it does put us a distinct disadvantage in a climate of rising fuel costs, because our economy is so inextricably linked (and at a high ratio) to the price of fuel. This is why inflation in Europe, despite the relatively exorbitant cost of fuel, is less sensitive to rising oil prices than it is here (which is something you must be profusely aware of).
An interesting scenario…. thanks for the info.
” These days vendors expect to get paid within terms of delivery, not 3 weeks later. ”
Did your friend pay you immediately upon service of dinner?
Actually we split the tab 50/50.
In the situation I speak of vendors expect to get paid in 30 days or less. We use that 30 days to collect payment from our customers. If the rail car adds 3 weeks to product delivery someone is going to have to pick up the cost for that period of time. That sounds like one full time employee to me.
I Knew it! Conservatives are Dutch!
LOL
Reminds me of the story where two poor souls out on the frozen country roadside Christmas eve stopped over some frozen Horse Buns, one of them picked one up and said to the other watch this!
He knocked on the door to a liberal farmer and proclaimed to him that this was all that he had to eat on Christmas eve and asked for some salt and pepper to make it Palatable.
The Lib replied” God, Man I can’t let you eat that come on in and have supper on us!”
The other poor man pressed his nose up against the window and watch as his friend ate a warm meal by the fireplace.
Once back out on the rd the other poor man picked up another horse bun and knocked on a conservative farmers door, and proclaimed to him that this was all that he had to eat on Christmas eve and asked for some salt and pepper to make it Palatable!
The Conservative replied
” God, Man I can’t let you eat that—
come on into the barn and I’ll fetch a fresh one!”
My friend is a University employee. I figure I am already picking up the tab. :)
What benefit is there to ship a product by train and have it set in a rail yard for three weeks before it can be delivered
Where else can you wharehouse your product for free?
And loose my customer for failure to meet deadlines.
Cheesecake, you are infinitely wiser in your logic than your opponents are…
Ever heard of “Just in Time inventory”?
If you and your customer plan for the delay and send your product out in transit earlier you both save on inventory storage costs!
guess you don’t work in transportation and logistics…
if equipment is sitting still its loosing you money. Nothing is for free.
Thank you for your eloquence and clarity .
Many thanks on all your infomative well written posts. Keep up the good work!
“which stood in stark contrast to the prior orchestrated event in Dover-Foxcroft, which dismissed the possibility of open public engagement.”
So the Dexter event was not “orchestrated” by the paid spokesperson Chris Buchanan? In what ways did the two events, Dover Foxcroft and Dexter, differ…other than one was organized by a group of county commissioners, and the other was organized by a professional anti-development activist from away?
I find it disconcerting that a “rural development specialist” like Mr. Merchant can be so nonchalant about the 10 percent unemployment rate in each of the counties through which the proposed highway might someday pass. Could it be that this nonchalance is one of the reasons that so many people in rural Maine are unemployed — because of the ineffectiveness of the effort provided by rural development specialists who think unemployment is basically okay?
But at least we finally have an anti-highway person who claims to have some experience at creating economic activity. Mr. Merchant, please tell us how you would erase the higher-than-national-average unemployment rate in this region of Maine now.
Chris Buchanan lives in Belgrade annd works for Defending Water For Life in Maine….truth Brandon..truth
Yes, it would be interesting to learn a little more about Chris. When did she come to Maine? Where did she do her professional activism job prior to coming to Maine? The people I sat near at the DF meeting said she only recently came here from another state.
Oh so it was on the basis of pure gossip that you posted here that she was a paid out of state organizer?????
Why don’t you share a little of your background with us Brandon..are you associated with the Maine Heritage Policy Center? Are you here speaking for yourself or a group like that? Were you born and raised in Maine?
Ms. Buchanan is conducting her advocacy work in a professional and very competent manner at Defending Water for Life, an organization whose work I admire very much and whose cause I fully support A cause we all must pay attention to as the crsisi of water availability and exploitation grips the entire planet. Ms. Buchanan doesn’t stalk people at blogs with taunts, insults and false information as you are doing here Brandon. She speaks well..she does her homework, she works very hard. Her page on the East West Highway is a libabry of studies and srativles for all to see and review for themselves..unlike other web sites which offer only biased ideology penned by their members.I believe Defending Water For Life, the organization through which I know of Ms. Buchannan’s work, is an affiliate of the Coastal Law Foundation, a group for whom I have profound respect, a group worthy of respect who work responsibly through law to address public policy issues.
The statement that Chris is a paid organizer is a fact that is not in doubt. As for her residency in Maine… Answer the question!
Why don’t you first answer the question about who you relally are and about your affiliation with the Maine Heritage Policy Center and whether you are a Mainer or not.
If your browser is working you can find out all you need to know about the very artuculate and well informed Ms. Buchanan at the Defending Water for Life website and also from many publicly available videos including MPBN interview where her demeanor, intelligence, integrity and honesty speak fro themselves.
I am who I am, a Maine citizen for nearly 50 years, who avoids any party affiliation like the plague. I also care about the state, as much if not more than Chris Buchanan. I have Maine friends and Maine loved ones who struggle due to a lack of decent jobs, and I am interested in seeing if this highway proposal has any merit. From what I can see so far, it has at least as much merit as the volumes of negative rhetoric that you have brought up, but which you refuse to defend when challenged.
You have already said ( and shown) that you know absolutely nothing about Ms. Buchanan so it is just more of your imflammatory rhetorical style to make any comparisons at all.
And what about your affiliation with the Maine Heritage Policy Center? is that an affiliation that shapes your personal style?
Yes, very few people know anything about Ms. Buchanan. That’s the problem. All I know is she is a paid activist, and some common folk in Dover Foxcroft told me she is from away. When I ask you to provide some documentation about her Maine residency, you either can’t or won’t.
Why not?
My “style” if you can call it that, is to examine your more outlandish claims and ask you to respond to reasonable criticisms of those claims. Your style is to avoid responding at all costs.
Do your own homework Brandon..like so many other commenters here do. We can’t do your reading for you..you have to do that for your self. Certainly we have all posted many factual links with a direct bearing on the policy context for the East West Highway. In a way it is disrespectful for you to continue to engage and post your rude confrontive challenges whwn you apparently haven’t bothered to do any homework at all on the E/W Highway.
And once again, are you affiliated with/spokeperson for the Maine heritage Policy Center?
I can only relay not defend what all the nationally recognized experts have said as recently as 2010 on Vigue’s version of the E/W Highway.
As has been well covered in the papers and many letters to the editors, te Vigue spnsored events have been very controlled and have not at all been a place for open discussion, open questions. He even had a reputable press person with prior approval to cover the Augusta event removed by his armed security personnel along with several other people who were ordinary citizens. ( do you read Brandon? Lance Tapley wrote about his experience in the paper).
The Dexter event as I gathered from friends who live in that area was a grass roots and very localevent..not just anti highway but celebratinng and holding up the kind of life they have and want to continue to build there. The part of the East West Highway was the first opportuniity the community has had for an open sharing of views and concerns without the shadow of Vigue’s control and armed security detail.
What offends me most oabout Vigue and his entire approach to marketing this abomination is that he is playing on the fears and anxieties by offering false inofmrtaion and false proises that the highway is the answer for northern Maine’s economic woes. That is a lie. A straight out lie. The East West Highway is the answer for exploitative speculative large landholders. Experts studies all available at the MDOT website know very well, Brandon, studies by nationally recognized transportation experts , have concluded that a 4 lane toll road from Calais to Coburn Gore is not only of marginal if any benefit to Maine but may harm business centers in certain areas.
Vigue has not resented one single study by any comparably recognized transportation expert that refutes the conclusions of the studies already done at public expense. Not one. His entire thrust has been on how to avoid and short cut cumbersome rules and regulations, how to silence and publicly marginalize all opponents.
The Dexter rally was a very powerful, very positive expression of community and faith in a common vision for that community’s future.. I would love to have been there to see that and experience that first hand.
“He even had a reputable press person with prior approval to cover the Augusta event removed by his armed security personnel along with several other people who were ordinary citizens.”
Yes, I read a lot, and I read the hatchet job by the left-wing writer, Lance Tapley, in his left-wing paper, The Phoenix. So, because Tapley said what he said, his descriptions are undoubtedly true? For you, perhaps. How do you know he isn’t completely mistaken about his “experience.” Isn’t it plausible that the statement Vigue allegedly made to Tapley, “I am not the one in charge here,” is valid? After all, the event was organized by the group that Tapley sought permission from, and Vigue apparently was just the invited guest speaker. If so, then Tapley’s entire theme is a farce.
It’s just as plausible as Tapley’s tale that he was booted out by someone else, the Hotel or the organization that invited Vigue to speak, for any number of reasons. Maybe he was simply being a jerk. But Tapley has such a bias against the highway that he puts the blame on Vigue. The way I read his article, he is clearly biased, and had no real interest in describing what Vigue said at the meeting.
He talks about not knowing what Vigue’s points were, other than by going to the pro-highway website, or getting information from the other left wing activists who were there, such as Chris Buchanan. Then in the next breath, Tapley admits that he had a personal phone conversation with Vigue after the event, at which time he could have asked his questions about the highway idea and gotten detailed answers that only a reporter would be in a position to get. Why didn’t he get his material from Vigue at that point? I say it’s because he’s not interested in Vigue’s point of view, and is only interested in discrediting the idea of a new highway.
By the way, nowhere in Tapley’s article is there a mention of anyone being “armed,” though you claim these so-called security personnel were armed. This just goes to show how loose you yourself are with the facts. Talk about “playing on fears and anxieties,” you are the pot calling the kettle black.
Lance Tapley is a gentleman and a scholar.. a very dignified and honorable person..bow tie and all I hear..I have never met him)..and there are many many mnay many documented independent accounts by numerous other ordinary citizens of encounter s with Vigue’s goons.
The first hand accounts often refer to the goons being armed..Merrill is a professional executive security firm and providing armed personnel is part of hat they do..look up their web site..!!!!
“many mnay many documented independent accounts by numerous other ordinary citizens of encounter s with Vigue’s goons….”
Where are these accounts, and who are providing these accounts? The last time you spoke of this, it was something along the lines of: a friend of a friend of a protester saw someone who looked like someone at one of Vigue’s meetings. Where is your documentation that Merrill has been hired by anybody? How does the belief that some security firm might have weapons translate into your “fact” that somebody at the event in Augusta had a gun? Once again, your conclusions become less and less credible the closer they are examined.
The Maine based and owned company I work for would benefit greatly from an east west highway.
Hey Tom..what is that company and exactly how would it benefit..? How many emloyees does it have?
I find the blatant intollerence for the developers and their plan to be the height of hypocracy. Liberals typically resist plans they don’t agree with even in the face of overwhelming evidence that they are wrong. Objective reporting says what happened, but the anti-capitalist slant of the NIMBYs report here, makes it an opinion piece.
What is so hard to understand? No eminent domain, no public funds, all built on private lands, careful integration with the surroundings, no taxpayer funds for up-keep, jobs for Maine residents, and an economic boon to affected communities. That’s real progress wrought by vision and forethought about the needs of the people of Maine. Or shall we all go back to the days of horse and buggy dirt roads, hand-pumped water, outhouses and whale oil lamps?
***
East-West Highway Fail!
Revitalize the Rail!