OXFORD, Maine — One year — nearly to the day — after the Maine Board of Environmental Protection issued a permit granting development of the Oxford Casino, the permit was nullified by Superior Court Justice Michaela Murphy.
The order — signed Wednesday and delivered by mail to parties of the suit Saturday — finds that BEP violated its own permitting rules. The casino’s permit has been remanded to the state Department of Environmental Protection for reconsideration.
That action should, according to Androscoggin River Alliance attorney Stephen Hinchman, force the closure of the casino.
According to Hinchman, state law prohibits the construction and operation of a business that “may substantially affect the environment without first having obtained approval for this construction” from the BEP. With no valid permit in effect, he said, “they’ll have to shut down.”
“The law is pretty clear that without a permit they can’t operate. And, presumably, if the department [DEP] doesn’t shut them down, the Gambling Control Board will.”
Attorney David Van Slyke, chairman of the environmental practice group at Preti Flaherty in Portland who represents casino owner Black Bear Development, disagrees with Hinchman’s interpretation.
“This decision deals with certain technical aspects of one of the Oxford Casino’s DEP permits regarding project phasing under the Maine Site Location of Development Act. The Court’s decision did not indicate in any way that the casino poses any environmental harm, and the decision does not require the casino to shut down. The Oxford Casino is in agreement with the position of the DEP and the AG’s Office in this case and will continue to cooperate with the DEP and all regulatory agencies,” Van Slyke said Monday.
Contacted at her home, DEP Commissioner Patricia Aho, who had not seen yet seen the order, said she and her staff would “review the order on Monday and determine the appropriate review based on that order and our discussions, as well, with our licensing staff as well as the attorney general’s office.”
The Androscoggin River Alliance and 18 of its members filed their appeal of the BEP permit on Aug. 4 last year, about two weeks after the permit was issued. The group argued that the BEP was required to consider all three phases of the proposed casino project when issuing the permit, but only considered Phase I, that containing the 65,000-square-foot casino and parking lot. In making its application for permit to build Phase I, casino owners included some environmental impact information for phases II and III, which are expected to include expansion of the gaming facility, additional parking, a parking garage, restaurants, a spa, pool, conference center, RV Park and skating rink, anticipating these phases would come before BEP for permitting in 2012 and 2015.
The river alliance, in filing its petition challenging the BEP permit, argued that casino owners, known as BB Development, were required to provide environmental impact analysis for all three phases of the project, not just the first phase, and that BEP was required to consider the full impact in granting the permit for Phase I. In making its case, the alliance argued that the first phase of the project was equivalent to building water supply and sewage treatment for 64 homes on the 97.3-acre property. Once all three phases were complete, the load would be the equivalent of 186 homes on the parcel, an increased environmental impact that the BEP should have considered in granting the initial permit as a matter of law.
However, according to the suit, “in its rush to permit the casino project, the applicant (BB Development) failed to conduct the studies necessary to affirmatively demonstrate that either Phase I or the full project proposal meets legal standards.” And rather than “correct these errors and omissions, the department (BEP) actually accelerated the permitting process,” granting the permit in “less than half of the 180-day statutory review period, despite ongoing staff concerns regarding the lack of data,” violating state law and its own rules in the process by not considering cumulative environmental impact of the entire project when complete.
In its reply to the alliance, BEP argued that the only application before the department for permit approval was the first phase of the casino “as a single, complete and stand-alone project,” and the permit was issued based on a comprehensive review of that application. BEP did not consider or approve any other or future development at the site.
The department relied on language in Maine’s Site Location of Development Act, which provides that “in the absence of evidence sufficient to approve all phases of a proposed development, the Board may approve one or more phases of the development based on the evidence then available.” And, since the permit application before the department was limited to Phase I of the casino project, that’s the only evidence of environmental impact that was considered, developers argued.
Despite assertions of BB Development in its defense that the casino project only “might be followed by additional phases depending on what the market dictates,” Justice Murphy concluded that the project was always envisioned to be constructed in three phases based on written “phasing plan” maps for the project and testimony offered at public hearing that the Oxford Casino was to be a “5-year build-out in three phases.”
“While a casino can generally have an independent function as BB Development urges,” she wrote, “the resort and attendant buildings and infrastructure were clearly envisioned as part of a comprehensive plan,” which should have been considered during the permitting process.
Even the name of the project, she wrote, “the ‘Oxford Resort Casino,’ not the ‘Oxford Casino,’ clearly reflects the future plans for the project.”
In her ruling, Murphy determined casino developers failed to submit “present plans for all phases of a development” that were available as required by state law, and that “individual phases may be approved only if the overall proposed development, as represented by the evidence then available,” would comply with SLODA (site) standards.
This is required, she wrote, because it “would be senseless, and contrary to the legislative intent, to allow applicants to circumvent” state law “by remaining silent about those long-term impacts that can be reasonably anticipated, and about which evidence is available” for multiphase projects.
The court order remands the case to the state Department of Environmental Protection for “consideration of all evidence available before deciding whether to grant approval of this phase of development of the Oxford Resort Casino project,” forcing the BEP permitting process for Phase I — which is already operational — to begin anew.
According to Hinchman, whose firm is located in West Bath, his interpretation of the court order is that, “essentially, they’ll have to reapply [for BEP permit] in the context of the full project, not just Phase I, and so the department will have to review the site with the carrying capacity at full build-out and in the context of the plan proposed by the developer” to ensure the site is capable of sustaining the level of environmental impact at full development.
Assessing impact is an important part of the permitting process, Hinchman explained, because otherwise once a permit is issued and a project development proceeds, “the decision to choose a more appropriate location is foreclosed and you end up mitigating impacts instead of avoiding impacts.”
“We’ve said that from the start,” he said, “way back before they put a spade in the ground. If it’s not legal, they shouldn’t be going forward. They went forward at their own risk.”
And, he said, “if the answer to a lawsuit is to build your project as quickly as you can and dare a court to shut you down, to pull your permit, that’s a monstrous game of chicken. I don’t think it’s a smart way to do business.”
Oxford Casino opened its 24-hour operation on June 5 and has been open continually since then.
Jim Boldebook and Robert Lally, who are both part of Oxford Casino’s ownership group, had not yet seen Murphy’s order and declined comment. A message left for owners Rupert and Suzanne Grover was not returned. Efforts to reach the five members of Maine’s Gambling Control Board on Sunday were not successful.
See more from the Sun Journal at sunjournal.com.
Youse rolls de dice, and take youse chances!
And da workers jus got rolled wen dey jus gut a job an bringin bakon home fer der chillins.
BB should pay them or it should come out of Mr “No Reg’s” Lepage’s wages.
We might let these gaming industry workers eat the same cake as those restoration workers who should be working on all the projects for which LePage defaulted
on the bond.
Where do these gaming sorts come from that they think that the rules do not apply tothem ?
This is the most BassAckward state in New England….
This is simply the kind of thing that happens when BassAckward individuals are given the reigns of power. Don’t worry the biggest Bass at the top will make sure this all gets worked out in favor of business over laws concerning petty things like environmental regulations. I can’t wait to hear him speak on this subject.
I’m surprised the biggest Bass can still speak with all the feet in his mouth at any given time…
Oops, someone forgot to grease the right palms. Owners must be new to the business.
Uh – Oh!
What names will the Governor call Maine’s judges in this week’s Saturday morning whine fest?
Gestapo? Nope. Taken.
Corrupt? Nope. Done that.
Special Interest Group? Nope. Been there.
Kiss my…? Nope. Used that one.
Adult Day-Care? Nope. Called another branch of government that one already.
Hey that’s the “House Rules”! Casino Jack and his Attorney David Van”Slick” Gambled and Lost! ” And, he said, “if the answer to a lawsuit is to build your project as quickly as you can and dare a court to shut you down, to pull your permit, that’s a monstrous game of chicken. I don’t think it’s a smart way to do business “
They haven’t lost yet, they will see their way through.
How does that go, “it’s easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission”? Problem here is they had permission apparently.
One would assume that the state environmental regulatory and enforcement agency knows what their own rules say and would not making s#!# up as they go along.
Enter LePage – Stage ‘wrong’
Why do we need EPA and DEP? Lets combine them into NBAS No Business Allowed State!
I’ll be over! I have a load of Used Transformers full of PCB s to dump!
I have been looking for someone who doesn’t care to dump them on!
It should be interesting to see how our Governor, Attorney General and Commissioner Aho handle this bag of worms. It really sucks when laws get in the way of special interest politics.
Yeah, and the employees pay.
Just like the workers who should be working on all the projects for which LePage defaulted on the bond.
LePage is working on cutting red tape, he didn’t cut enough
The headline is incorrect. Superior Court IS DEFINATELY NOT the Supreme Court.
It is a wonder that any new business would want to come to Maine and build ……………….. on that note the solution is simple, eliminate phases II & III.
Tear the whole rats nest down for all I care!
Its a wonder that a business wouldn’t follow the rules. This has nothing to do with the state of maine. This has to do with them trying to wiggle out of the permiting process. Why not submit the plans for Phase II and III? That sounds fishy to me.
It’s like the guy with the Vacum cleaner who gets his foot in the door with a coupon for a free carpet cleaning——
Watch out!
Because they aren’t buildin it yet. When it comes time to build it, they have to submit for another review.
But like the judge said, they were going to build it, and thus they needed to submit it for review. What they did was basically say, we are only building this one thing, maybe we will build the others. However the Judge said, no your very name tells us that you are planning on building more then this one phase from the beginning, thus the need to submit.
FINE time to realize this!! This state has no sense. It’s allowed people to sue no matter what and has driven away more business than it has or ever will entice to come here. So all these people will be out of a job, a company on good faith tried to help a depressed area and bring business to Maine and now they haggle over semantics and who to point the finger at….AMAZING
Agreed. This states behaviors amaze me and not in a good way.
Good Faith?
Are you kidd’n me?
They Sharks smelled blood, rushed in Head first to a feeding frenzy and got caught in a net!!
I want to hire 300 people do dump garbage into the river, is that ok with you if I create 300 hundred jobs?
OK, as long as one of them is LeGarbage.
Lets waste somemore of the states money. You will never win this battle. If the state fights it all taxpayers should form a group against the state and the alliance group and sue them for wasting tax dollars. The 18 members of the Androscoggins River Alliance should be footing the bill not the state. Some of the biggest problems with this state is DEP and EPA and Welfare costs. The taxpayer foot the bill and how much does it recover.
Gosh you know you might just be on to something there big bear. Well except for one itsy bitsy problem. It was a superior court judge that handed down the ruling after both sides presented their respective cases and not the DEP or EPA , heck I bet there were no Welfare recipients involved at all. Maybe if the BEP followed their own rules instead of cramming through a permit the court might have come up with a different ruling. This is not the first time a court has found that an agency under the control of The LePage Administration has failed to follow their own rules. In fact LePage’s first Commissioner of DEP had to resign because of a conflict of interest. There are also questions concerning if LePage violated the Maine Constitution in regards to purchasing the Dolby Landfill as well. My company has to deal with rules, regulations and laws every day and in over 28 years none of our clients have had to face court action for a very simple reason. They follow the laws, regulations and rules.
I know but DEP and EPA and Welfare just cost the state so much money. Welfare I should have not brought into it. But welfare gives me a sour stomach and the cost of it for us taxpayers. But you had some great points. But who has more to fight this the state or Beer’s owner of Oxford Casino.
If you mean by following existing rules, regulations and laws that DEP and EPA cost the State money you are mistaken. It is up to the people who want permits to follow existing laws, rules and regulations. Someone tried to pull a cutie and circumvent the rules and got caught. I would suspect that the current resident of the Blaine House had a hand in this somehow. I won’t disagree with you as far as the cost of welfare is concerned, but according to DHHS and the Federal Government statistics Maine has one of the lowest welfare fraud rates in the country. Did welfare need to be reformed? Yes it did. Did it need to be reformed to the extent it was? I doubt it. Did Maine need a tax cut that would result in big savings for Maine’s wealthiest while giving on average a $43 per year cut to the average Maine worker? I don’t think so. You can’t cry poverty and say we are broke and then cut revenues. It would be like a worker going to their boss and saying they can’t pay their bills and asking the boss to cut their pay. It just doesn’t work. You can’t say we are broke and then spend $300,000 plus to do a survey to see if it is feasible for a private company to construct a road. We just built a nice new boat ramp in Ellsworth for $850,000. would you do that if you were broke? I know I sure as heck couldn’t. Like them or not we need rules, regulations and laws. If you remember we cut back on regulation on what banks could do under the GW Bush Administration that worked out well didn’t it? It resulted in the worst recession since the Great Depression and we are still trying to recover from it.
You know the state a dollar rich and penny poor.
more like a day late and a dollar short.
Funny
And as long as Obama is in charge we will never recover, as for the bank rules nice try. Better check out who was running Frannine and Freddie as well who donated huge amounts of money to Obama, hint it wasn’t greenpeace.
As long as the Republicans are the House Majority he will Never be able to do a thing!
Crooks Donate to both sides hedging their bets!
Oh poor Dlbrt Republicans stopping Dlbrt from getting more freebies and putting us all on the path to bankrutpcy. Better get used to it because Americans more and more are getting fed up with this administration everyday and the Socialist Democrats in General. The only crooks I see is in the White House well good times will be coming in after November 6th because Nobama will be starting to hire U-Haul’s and Mayflower moving vans getting rid to head on back to Chicago.
And just who was running Citigroup, JP Morgan, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Goldman Saks, and every other major Bank in the Country. Nice try with the Fannie and Freddie deflection but if you really think that the cause of the economic collapse was Fannie and Freddie you have either been on another planet for the past few years or you only believe what you are told on fox news and right wing radio.
Rominee would be a complete disaster – a repeat of Dubya Cheney-Bush, on steroids.
More and more eligible voters who pay attention know it, which is why he will never be elected President. Ain’t gonna happen this election cycle or ever..
Obama 2012.
It is not the DEP who approves anything. It is the BEP who liciences polluters.
Don’t look at me like that, That is their only job discription.
Does corporate welfare give you as much of a sour stomach as regular people on welfare or don’t you have the stomach to address that problem?
I do have the stomach to address this problem. Welfare should be out to help the elderly not the 17,18 thru 50 year olds.
So people who are between the ages of 17 and 50 who have families to feed and have lost their jobs and can’t find work shouldn’t receive assistance? How do you think we should address corporate welfare?
If one job does not feed you then get two!!!
Your just like Mitt Romney. He doesn’t give straight answers either. Did you miss the part where I said they couldn’t find work? Not one job ,let alone two and you ignored my question about how you would address corporate welfare. Your like most righties.Long on critisism ,short on solutions.
Oh quit trying to cover for the fools. They rushed ahead and violated the law. The statute is clear. Even before a phase-1 permit is issued, there must be a full-project impact evaluation. The develepors and BEP messed up. Live and learn.
LOL
Thank you, but be quit??? wrong
Thank you ARA. We suspected that LePage’s new DEP would rush and circumvent the law to help its friends and political supporters and now we know for sure. You can expect a new round of environmental legislation next year, further emasculating Maine’s environmental laws. Again, nice work ARA.
Why don’t you thank the employees as well, just are about to lose their jobs. What an intelligent comment you make.
Rules are rules!
Even Casinos will throw you out for cheat’n!
Maybe is it time for the rules to change. Some rules in Maine thwart any kind of development making this one heck of an UN-friendly state to businesses.
Why make friends with someone who would just as soon pour Their Raw Sewerage onto your property!
This ain’t Sesame Street!!! Business has ONE goal—to turn a Profit!
Friendlyness isn’t in that equation!
The rules were not bad, they are there for a reason. The problem here is the agency and the business both didn’t do there job. They tried to rush and didn’t do it right. There was not chance that they would be denied if they did it right but for some reason they didn’t.
So its the Judges fault for making them follow the rules. The only ones here at fault are the DEP for not following there own rules, and the Casino for not making sure there ducks were all in order.
Activist judge!!!!!
Yeah it’s really awful when u are made to play by the rules. Regulations? Environment? The big money is in town. I say shut Em down !
This has nothing to do with the environment, the only question seems to be whether or not they complied with some convoluted bureaucratic B.S.
You mean it only has to do with if the gambling house operators can be trusted to follow the law ?
No, it has do with whether the government followed *their own laws*. (rules)
“The order — signed Wednesday and delivered by mail to parties of the suit Saturday — finds that BEP violated its own permitting rules. ”
The bureaucracy is so out-of-control that the government doesn’t even know how to follow their own rules.
They don’t need no stinkin’ rules!
“No, it has do with whether the government followed *their own laws*. (rules)”
Oh.
Okay. That fine.
So, without a court case how to do you expect to establish that ?
Then, who has been running this big government bureaucracy, so poorly,
since the Oxford gambling operation was approved by the voters ?
If the government is not following it own laws, should heads roll,
right up to to State’s chief executive officer …
I have lots of room to agree with you.
lol
I believe The BEP was asked by the casino to violate their own rules so as to proceed.
They can take gifts from people hoping to get the permitting through.. and only have to report it when they retire from their post.
Who wrote that law you think
Nothing to do with environment? I thought the whole controversy was they only put down the environmental impact for phase one Anderson were required to also include the next two phases. Which they didn’t. Isn’t that what the ruling said???!!!!
Hey Judge, I am sure you are probably right about the DEP, but you know what, there is some gray in this, and someone better use it, because you have just affected the lives of the employees there who probably have not had any work for a long time. There is something political about this, I can smell it.
Yes, making someone follow rules that have been in place for years in definately political.
I doubt they will shut it down. The BEP screwed up not the casino. My guess is there will be much paper shuffling at BEP.
The Casino proceeded without proper permits. The casino assumed they already bought the dep.. There was issuses there from the start about waste water discharge. The Casino knew about it before they started building. so it was the Casinos fault.
The casino was issued proper permitts by the State of Maine….they have done nothing wrong…
That’s not what the judge said.
Last June when the permitts were issued they were considered valid and the oxford casino proceeded accordingly, they have done nothing wrong. When this finally is washed out and settled..the casino will stay open, the state may have egg on it’s face and the lawyers will get richer.
The casino violated many laws with the help of the Maine legislatures. The dep issue is one I never looked at. Yet am very happy someone did.
and what laws did they violate with the help of the maine legislature?
I wonder how much the judge lost at the casino.
permits yes , proper I don’t belive so.
Just follow the money
You can bet on it Honey
When the smoke clears away
All that glitters stays sunny
Perhaps this is the time, about time, for Maine to take a look at the hoops that any development of property must jump through. Some of the laws make Maine UN-friendly to development as well as businesses. I doubt that this project will ruin the river. Yes, it may be the equivalent of 100+ homes, but the project will address the handling of septage or water run-off from the buildings and parking lots. If this casino/resort is providing good jobs, then why make life miserable for those already employed by instigating a costly lawsuit at the expense of the employees or employers. Obviously, the River Alliance must have plenty of money to initiate the suit. Did Plum Creek ever get final approval? Do any big projects ever get approved in Maine? Take a look at some of the rules and regulations and get rid of the obstacles for most development in this state.
I have never been to either of our illustrious gambling casinos, but I will fight for the right to build and operarte a legal business in this state and anywhere in this country. Building a business is a difficult task in it’s own right (even with all the hard work being done for you, right Mr. Obama?} even more so in a state where until recently such a venture has always been at best an adverserial relationship. The efforts by Mr. Hinchman’s group could have recieved satisfactory results and been able to complete their mission to protect the land around the Androscoggin river without shutting down the casino, but this wasn’t really about the enviroment was it Mr. Hinchman.
When businesses stop trying to cut corners to make more of a profit then it will be less adversarial
Tell that to your boss. When did profit become such a thing to despise, Oh yea I remember summer of 07 wasn’t it.
When did at all cost to profit become OK?
Since Rush, that’s when.
Profit is not a bad thing unless it comes at the expense of others. That is why we have regulations to stop the bad business owner from profiteering.
Why can’t we respect freedom of choice. The folks voted it in, so leave it alone. We always en up with some dim wit like Dennis Bailey thinking he is mighty than thou and trying to stop a form of entertainment that some folks enjoy. Leave them alone and mind you own business.
I am only repeating what you said Conley OK??? The people voted to put a landfill 1/4 mile from your house, Lets respect freedom of choice, leave it alone OK. Leave it alone and mind your own business…
When are we going to respect the will of the voters. Just because the those folks didn’t like the results well that’s too bad they should have ran a better campaign. The fact is the Casino side won. They followed the same rules, process, procedures and hearings that Bangor has and now the Libs want to shut them down. How about we shut down alot of these Liberal Groups, Environmentalists and start hitting them with all of these costs, taxes etc.. Trust me if they get nailed like us Taxpayers and Working Folks have been for 30+ years they would go away fast. They would be on their next destination looking for more folks to screw and steal their hard earned money.
This kind of foolishness is precisely why there are fewer people, businesses, and jobs in Maine today than in 1998. This is precisely why Maine is the nation’s welfare state. Even after spending outrageous amounts of money, it is impossible to open or operate a business in Maine because of foolishness like this. Seriously, BB can not do as asked for two reasons, 1) The rules are constantly changing leaving all of us who try to do something with no idea what they will be from minute to minute. BB can not plan ahead to satisfy rules for phases II and III because there is no crystal ball to tell them what crazy rules will exist when it comes time to move forward with those phases. It is rare in Maine to be able to develop a perfect set of plans and get through the permitting process without having to start the plans all over because all the rules have changed and that is with a current project for get a future phase. 2) BB has concepts for phases II and III based on projections with nothing built. Things change. With Phase I completed and operational, they may well find Phase II is inadequate, excessive or just plain wrong and modification or complete redesign is required. All of this is why only a permit was sought for Phase I, what was being built.
Oh, and to set the record straight before the Maine loons get started, I don’t work for any of the parties involved or any business in Maine. I considered opening a business in Maine and saw what a costly mess you have going there, how I would be throwing my money away trying to get “approvals” only to have some whack job we don’t want no jobs here ’cause we all like our welfare group take me to court after I get approval to tie me up for years and spend a lot more money and start over again probably with a “scaled down” to a below profitable level project. I don’t have time for your crap. I took my business to a state that wanted my business and had people that can do the work (you don’t) and wanted to do it (yours want welfare).
You obviously can’t stand Maine, yet you continue to read news from our “costly mess”. Interesting.
I am saddened and angered by the attitude of Maine. I’m sick of my federal tax dollars going to a place that continuously refuses job and tax opportunities. I’m sadden to have elderly family that are trapped in Maine because their “retirement plans” were their homes which have only lost value and there is no market for them leaving them stuck in Maine paying ever increasing property taxes on a low value non-salable properties, property taxes that are higher than my high value, highly salable industrial property in Texas.
Since you have so much money why don’t you “help your family out of here?”
What is “have so much money?” I have a business with expenses I pay. I pay the business employees, even provide them with health insurance. I feed my family, keep a roof over their heads, put a bit aside for the kids college and the retirement I hope to have some day, pay my personal, business, and property taxes. After all that, there isn’t anything left. If I wasn’t paying so much in federal taxes to support Maine peoples’ free ride maybe I could help out some of my elderly relatives, but folks up there would rather make a career of welfare on backs of out of state workers and businesses. Do you know Maine has the oldest population in the country? It isn’t because of your wonderful weather and plentiful, high quality medical and transportation services. If Maine would fix itself there would be a demand for the homes of the elderly who want nothing more than they want to get out to be with their families, be in a better climate, and where they can get the care and services they need.
….
While I am down here in Texas running my business, making payroll, making sure my employees insurance premiums get paid, and worrying over what is going to happen come the new year, what are your doing?
….
Why is it liberal Democrats are the only group of people who believe in the economic policies that they do, meanwhile claiming that everyone else is wrong? I just find it interesting that Republicans, Conservatives, Independents, Moderates, Libertarians, and the Tea Party more or less all agree on economic policy while liberals disagree with all of them. I am guessing that there is a lot of compelling evidence that support their “myths.”
Republicans, Conservatives, Independents, Moderates, Libertarians, and the Tea Party more or less all agree on economic policy?
I am libertarian and speak with many other libertarians. The consensus of opinion in my group is that we should cut aid to foreign countries. Stop policing the world. Stop borrowing from China, India, Indonesia and other competitive countries. and streamline the tax system so it is fair. Why should people born into wealth and privilege pay a 15% tax while people out working pay up to 36%.
This differs radically from my conservative friends who believe we should increase our world presence, increase the military budget, leave our troops stationed abroad, and give tax breaks to only those who make over $250,000 a year.
The Teaparty group is in favor of continuing tax free status for churches and religious groups. Libertarians say that unless churches use NO government services they should be taxed at the same rate everyone else pays. Government services include (but not limited to) Police protection, fire department services, trash collection, and transportation services (snow plowing, road paving etc.)
My moderate friends appear to think somewhere between the two extremes (hence the label “moderate”)
If you’re friends believe that only those who make over $250,000 should receive tax cuts then you are either misrepresenting them, or their beliefs do not align themselves with mainstream conservatism. Most fiscal conservatives believe in low taxes for all, as can be demonstrated now by the fact that they want to extend the Bush tax cuts for all, whereas the Democrats want to only let it expire for those who make $250,000 or more. Interestingly, this somehow gets spun into conservatives wanting tax cuts for only the wealthy, when in fact they are not seeking tax cuts at all, they are simply wanting to maintain current rates, for everyone.
Personally, I agree that we should calm down with the military. However, like many people, your understanding of the tax system seems to be inaccurate. People born into wealth do not pay 15%, since wealth is not taxed they actually pay 0%. But that same rate applies to everyone, because wealth, thankfully, is not taxed. You are likely, like most people, mixing capital gains rates; that is, taxes on things such as interest or dividends, with income tax rates. It should be noted that the 15% capital gains tax rate is flat, and applies to everyone regardless of money earned from capital gains returns.
The only people who have income taxes of 36% are those who make over $388,350. And it is only on income exceeding that amount.
Also, by “people out working” I will assume you are referring to both the poor and middle class. If so, the poor not only do not pay any federal income taxes but the federal government actually gives them back money thus giving them a negative effective tax rate, in some cases as low as NEGATIVE 40%.
The “middle” and upper part of the middle class are where we actually start to break into people actually paying federal income taxes, but even so, their EFFECTIVE federal income tax rates are typically much lower.
In fact in 2009, the effective tax rates for various incomes are as follows:
$10 Million, about 22
$1 Million to $10 Million about 25 percent
$50,000 to $75,000 about 7 percent
Everything below that about 0%
But either way, the general consensus between conservatives, the tea party, and libertarians is lower taxes, and less government spending and intrusion in our lives. Yes, there are some variations, such as that regarding military, but overall they are generally about the same.
Also, you say you are libertarian, based on the little you told me, you do not sound libertarian, you sound more liberal than anything, this is just an observation. But maybe that is just because I am VERY libertarian.
you have a point
google ‘maine suc-s”
Sorry. I choose to live here. I have no desire to live in Texas (once lived in Amarillo too damn hot and WAY to much religious bigotry) You don’t give me ANYTHING except grief for being a Mainer.
Glad you are happy in Texas (you are happy right? You seem to have a whole bunch of complaints for a happy person.)
Yes, it’s kinda’ like one of those Spanish Soap Operas. Even though you don’t understand the lingo you just can’t tear yourself away……….
Maine, the “take your business elsewhere” State.
So true.
Me gusta las telenovelas también!!!!
Well played…….. :-)
Well tell us what state and we’re all moving!!!!
Texas, all off Texas is booming. If you want to stay on the East Coast both South Carolina and Georgia are on the move and Florida should be picking up soon.
All four of those states have a reputation, though, of being unfriendly in other realms.
You mean the workers have the right to actually work there and keep their money not give it to union goons who tell them not to do their jobs till they run the company into bankruptcy and cost the workers their jobs and retirements as happened at so many Maine plants? Or is it the part about limiting the number of years a person can collect welfare you object to, after all so many Mainers do make welfare their career choice it won’t work in any of those states? Or is it the absence of a state income tax in these states you have a problem with? Tell me please, just what are the realms you are referring to you say these states have an unfriendly reputation for?
Funny, that is attributed to Government growth, and Government on Military
They didn’t ever have the right to build this project. They applied for the permit after the 90 day period, Which wouldn’t allow them to build it anyway because of the hundred mile law. So they legally should have been denied. I think the fee was like 2.5 millon.. Then the State changed the law to road miles, which means they would have needed another 90 days for that law to take effect, and then apply again at the cost of another 2.5 millon.. Also they knew all along that they had a septic issue but continued anyway.. But according to your comment, they only people that the laws should apply too, is the middle class and the poor.
Can the owners speed down the highway at a hundred MPH because they employ people?
Really, this has nothing to do with Maine being unfriendly to Business. What this has to do with is people trying to rush and not crossing there T’s or dotting there i’s. There was not chance that this would have been denied if they done it right. What you fail to understand is that this project was going to go through. They were going to get it build. The only thing that stood in there way was something like this. Something that they tried to rush instead of doing it right. They only have themselves to plan. Not Maine being unfriendly to business. It was trying to rush that did them in on this. Nothing else.
Sounds like a witch hunt to me.
All I know is that close to 400 Mainers were put to work. Shutting them down because of nonsense permitting issues brought up by people with personal agendas would be a sad indication of where the state of Maine is going.
Yeah witch-hunt. Except that witches were powerless marginalized women.
When MBNA came to Maine everyone was joyous. There was talk of jobs, grants, and a general upward shift in the economy. The downside being we had to give up Maine’s banking protection laws. We had laws banning ATM fees, over limit fees, membership fees for credit cards, over limit fees, and late fees. We also had some of the strongest local banks in the Nation.
We gave all that up to get MBNA to relocate here. MBNA lasted fewer than 15 years, and we now have the residual effects of the laws we abandoned.
I know where “Maine is going.” and that place will not benefit workers.
The ch!ances the Oxford Casino is shut down is a big fat ZERO! They were issued a permit by the DEP and preceeded….the Bangor heading is laughable!
The DEP had no right to issue the permit, The State legislature, the Gaming board The Dep, BEP all violated the law many times to get this business up and running.
For once I would like to see justice and close them down for good. They would never have protected a middle class person in that fashion. Creating new laws for one. 2 if you add in the juniper ridge resort
you have an opinion from one left of liberal judge, this is far from over.
How is this a Liberal Judge? Seems pretty clear cut. They rushed it and didn’t get everything done. its not like this was a slight technically?
BIG is the key word here: Big money, Big rush, Big bafoon in the state house announcing Maine is open for Big business. A casino is a scourge on the land. Gambling is down nationwide anyway. If the developers had researched their money grubbing idea, they would have known that. Circumventing the laws of the state was just another Big rush to get their Big foot in the door while the economy is poor, so all will think it is a good idea.
Kind of reminds one of the wind power scam, doesn’t it. Big money, Big players etc.
And the sign says “””OPEN FOR BUSINESS!!!”””
Or atleast it did, the Liberals were mad because Mr. LePage beat their person for the Gov’s seat.. So they stole it.
The absolute truth! The dumbest people I have ever met are politicians and college graduates! Most wealthy people are not highly intelligent, they are just very good thieves! They can buy there way around the laws because they have crooked friends in high places many of them politicians, lawyers and judges etc.
It’s all about WHO you know and who’s palm you can GREASE……
Used to have a saying when I was a kid:
It’s not who you know, it is who you blow!
Can we shut hollywood slots down too
Rules shmules we don’t need no stink’in rules……….except apparently you do. ‘Maine- Open for Business………PSYCH!!!!’
To those who choose to complain that burdensome, anti-business regulations are at fault, I’d like to point out that this isn’t a business rule, it’s an environmental rule. Yeah, the casino has seen its share of hurdles in the area of business (remember the 100-mile rule?), but remember that the state of Maine and its government worked to accommodate the business. We’re not as anti-business as some people make us out to be.
We do have some fairly restrictive environmental regulations though. Honestly? That’s fine with me. We’ve seen some highly publicized reports where Maine ranks near the bottom, but we constantly rank among the top of quality of life. That’s part of what attracts people here, and we need to keep that piece in place. Environmental regulations make the process tougher for some big businesses, but they’re beneficial in the big picture.
Yes they themselves created the 100 mile rule, then couldn’t live by it..LOL…
Their Lawyers made more then one mistake I see. LOL
You think environmental permitting doesn’t fall in the category of regulations on business?
hmm.
As for Maine people prospering based on our “quality of life,” see how that has worked out in Spain, the embodiment of the “quality of place” economy we’re told will move Maine forward.
I say, “Shut The Place Down. ” The Indians weren’t allowed to have a Casino, why should anyone else think they can have one. The state of Maine has double standards which only goes to prove there is still a lot of hatefulness and deceit against the Indians. Tell me there are people who think this is wrong. Bangor has a Casino that should not be in existence too. “Shut That One Down Too.”
YOU are the only person here with whom I find myself in agreement.
If Maine is going to allow gambling, then allow it everywhere. This favoritism game is getting old.
Why is it conservatives want individuals to obey the rules but when it comes to businesses they should only follow rules if they feel like it?
Just like liberals who only follow the rules they like, must be something in the water in Augusta. Or maybe the conservatives have learned from 30yrs of liberal rule.
Which is why I’m a libertarian. Lets get rid of the unnecessary rules.
I would rather see these environmentalists go after the wind farms destroying the mountain tops etc but all I hear are crickets, I wonder why. Follow the money, right Angus. But if the BEP is wrong then fix it, rules apply to all.
They where never going to do the expansions anyway.
I built a 8 foot, foot bridge over a ditch once and was made to take it down pluse restore the area.
The Laws were made to restrict my behavior.. not the money people, who recieve exemptions to the laws all the time.
Permitting standards are meant to insure your behavior conforms with existing law.
Do it right the first time and you won’t have a problem.
You’d never get that from LePage because he doesn’t know anything about creating an attractive business environment long term.
Obama 2012.
There’s one way to get a Casino out of Maine, issue permits, build it, then get a court order you really don’t have one and you can’t operate to begin with.
I guess we will see which way the money flows. Giving gifts is not uncommon to get projects approved I am thinking their lawyers made a few more then one mistake like the 100 mile issue.
Don’t the lawyers know some of thier funds are supposed to be gifted to the rule makers.
They brought it out into the public which is always nice to follow and see how they do it. (who needs to be bought)
Maine- “fat, drunk and poor is no way to go through life son”
I don’t happen to be fat drunk or poor. But I’m Maine.
So much for your stupid stereotypes.
…..
NIMBY’s out in full force…..
I’m a NIMBY and proud of it. There are MANY things I don’t want in the vacinity of my living space. That is our system. You get to try to put a skunk farm next to my house, and I get to try to stop you.
It has been ever thus.
…..
Wa Wa Wa.. the special interest politics of the tree huggers to eliminate as many jobs as possible are at work here.. lets have more taxes on the working people, eliminate health insurance for the elderly after they have paid ss for years and more govt spending on drug business as the failed ones of the past.Boy when some see success of others they will cry foul foul foul when it provides food for people with out govt money.
Executives in Denver at DCP Midstream, so eager to ramp up industrial development of Maine’s Midcoast with a dangerous and totally unneeded eyesore in the form of a liquefied propane megatank at Searsport, should feel very, very worried in the wake of this decision.
Like the Oxford Casino owners, DCP, an LLC front for two of the largest fossil fuel companies in the world, has also relied on the new so-called “business-friendly” direction of Maine’s DEP to enjoy VIP express red carpet treatment in its application to build. As this article ably relates, the new DEP under Commissioner Patricia Aho violated its own rules by ignoring the cumulative environmental impact of the entire casino project and granted “the permit in ‘less than half of the 180-day statutory review period, despite ongoing staff concerns regarding the lack of data’.”
DCP, which fronts for the gas distribution operations of Phillips 66 and Duke Energy, has similarly enjoyed a speed pass from DEP regulators. Leaving aside obvious concerns in upper Penobscot Bay about safety, economic impact and alterations to an existing way of life posed by DCP’s push to dominate the regional propane market, the DEP’s new wink-and-a-nod style of carrying out its lawful responsibilities allows troubling environmental questions to remain here as well.
That’s really not so surprising when you consider that for many years before our “business-friendly” governor appointed her in April 2011 to the DEP, initially as deputy commissioner, former Pierce Atwood attorney Aho was a major lobbyist in Maine for the energy, chemical and pharmaceutical industries, including an eight-year stint as lead lobbyist for the American Petroleum Institute.
It’s refreshing to see the Superior Court insist that the law must be observed, not blithely tossed to one side as a petty nicety standing in the way of yet another opportunity by the corporate world to look after its unholy bottom line. Congratulations to attorney Stephen Hinchman on a job well done. I look forward to a similar victory on his part at Searsport where he is also one of the attorneys representing the local citizens group Thanks But No Tank [tbnt.org].
LePage doesn’t know what he’s doing, nor how the permitting process works, apparently.
Just because he has people, like Aho, ‘on board’ with his ‘tunnel vision’ of creating a business friendly environment, never guaranteed he’d be successful.
There are still judges who are willing to uphold laws that were put in place for good reasons before he ever rode in.
Which is just more evidence he should never have been elected in the first place and will not get second term. Penguin’s ‘promises’ mean ‘squat’- literally and figuratively.
Obama 2012
Looks like they gambled and lost. Now they may not be able to gambol…
I believe there to be more potential negative environmental impacts in Oxford area from years of old manufacturing methods and left over dumps or brownfields, come on…..
The man that is behind Oxford Casino owns Loudon 300 Nascar. I think his last name is Beers. I hear he has enough money to make the Whitehouse in Augusta that we all call the captial look like the animal shelter. So dream on EPA and Androscoggins River Alliance 18 group. Beers will swallow you up the courtroom. Have you ever heard the song dreaming. If not listen to it. Makes alot of sense.
You seem to approve of money buying anything, and laws not applying to the wealthy
Or maybe just use the loss as a tax write off. (-:
Like their lawyer said we don’t know if we will persue it. (-:
we do not any jobs added to Maine. We are all on wellfare and foodstamp do not want to screw that up.
Yes an if people had there way there would be even more people out of work
It seems despite all the finger pointing in this suit so far, it’s BEP, the permit issuers, who should be held accountable.
This is LePages idea of creating ‘a friendly business environment’?
Good luck with that.
Obama 2012.
Wow!
The casino should sue DEP for blowing it.
Hey LePage, get your big mouth involved and fix this threat to these news jobs.
Move your keester big fella! NOW!
Close it down today.
Again, why does anything this adminstration do surprize anyone……with Bubba LePage running it we should have expected this. Oh wait it wont be his fault he will just lie and blame someone else like he is doing with the Dolby Land fill…all I know is that after today it is one less day of Bubba being in office!!!
Oh well back to Connecticut for me to gamble. I saved on gas but the Casinos in Connecticut are much better. LePage and his Stooges would screw up running a garbage dump they are so inept.
It is an interesting lesson to come out of it all. Phasing projects has alwas been a sensible way of developing a business. Why encounter huge debt before you really know whether or not the business is actually going to be there. So you develop each phase and see whether your business plan holds water. If it does, move on to the next phase. If it doesn’t, try to make what you have successful and leave it at that.
What no one is talking about is the high cost associated with the environmental reviews. These are very extensive and expensive reports, and most developers understand the need for them. But like the development itself, why go throug the expense of such a report if you don’t know whether or not you are actually going to complete that phase? So developers routinely get the licenses/permits they need for what they are actaully doing. AND they know that they need to come back for further permits/licenses when they are ready to fund the next phase. Sometimes they don’t follow through with the second phase simply because the environmental review identified an issue that would be too expensive to overcome. That is part of planning and business plan 101.
It is really crazy to think that a developer would have to complete an environmental review for everything that they MIGHT do in the future. They understand that a review is needed for each phase and that is part of doing business. But to worst case scenerio it right out of the gate will create two results: 1. The developer won’t develop. 2. The developer won’t tell anyone about what their future plans are for fear of the anti folks trying to kill the project by forcing you to spend so much money, you won’ t be able to go foward with any project. And folks wonder why developers keep their cards close to their chest! It is an interesting lesson indeed.
Why would you want logic Now? Heck the 1/2 millon or so laws we have on the books already need 5 attorneys to figure out each of them.
The BEP is way more business friendly then people friendly already. look at the windmill issue. they approve everything that lands on their desk. They are only their to prevent small business development, not large corporate. so claiming it doesn’t make sense, doesn’t make sense
EXACTLY RIGHT…Maine is destined to be a welfare state and a playground for limo libs..The moon bats have seen to that…And yet they sit around and scratch their butts and wonder why the kids and middle class are fleeing this cesspool… In 20 years or so they will have to import foriegn workers to empty their bedpans and wipe drool from their chin because there will be nobody here to do it…
//\
Really ?? Maine is the oldest state in the Union and has a disproportionate number of people over 65 and the trend is getting worse and has been noted in MANY news stories and the Census…But by all means enlighten us with your evidence…
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In Maine, as in most states ‘DEP’ is the state’s environmental enforcement agency.
I don’t know where ‘BEP’ came from, but BDN should try not confuse readers who don’t know the difference.
I wasn’t sure, myself, because LePage has created chaos across other state agencies in the name of having invented a more effiicient and business friendly ‘environment’.
Right.
The Board of Environmental Protection (BEP) is an appointed panel that’s intended to provide a channel for citizen input into Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) operations. I make no warranty as to whether it actually does this – having a generally cynical view of “citizen input” mechanisms in Augusta, I would tend to doubt it, but I don’t have enough knowledge of the inner workings of the sausage machine to make any factual judgement in the matter, so – bucking the tradition for website commenters around the world, I know – I won’t.
See also: http://www.maine.gov/dep/bep/ .
The article could make this clearer, but at least it isn’t an actual mistake.
Wa Wa Wa.. the special interest politics of the tree huggers to eliminate as many jobs as possible are at work here.. lets have more taxes on the working people, eliminate health insurance for the elderly after they have paid ss for years and more govt spending on drug business as the failed ones of the past.Boy when some see success of others they will cry foul foul foul when it provides food for people with out any other govt money involved.
Maine: Open For Shennanigans.
This brings to mind… How is that economic boom in Oxford county going?
This is going to be like watching the three stooges. Two lawyers and and the whitehouse in Augusta. Just set back and watch it roll out. Its going to be fun Larry, Mo and Paul!!!!
Easy big bear…thats an insult to the Three Stooges comparing them to Bubba LePage!!!
Why did the following artist’s conception look so different from what it looks like in real life:
http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2011/04/20/business/challenge-issued-to-maine-casinos-permits./
“Artist’s conception” is your key phrase there. Press drawings of buildings that haven’t been built yet (as it hadn’t when the article you link was published) are routinely inaccurate. For all we know, there were several different design proposals for the building, and the one pictured isn’t even from the one that ended up being built.
This is stupid! The friggin building is UP! Employees are working. Put a dot on the i and get on with life!
Since the building is up, they are exempt from the law…. is that what your saying?
If thats the way the law works I have plenty of land I would like to put multi family units on.
Hmmm, NOW, are we talking a casino, or a new nuke power plant??
“Substantially affect the environment” ?????!!!!!
If you can’t beat them at the polls, try quibbling them to death in court.
That’s the Maine way…Death by a thousand cuts…Brought to you by the BANANA s (Build Absolutly Nothing Anywhere Near Anything)and their environut allies…
not really sure what they are sueing about, other then procedural issues they appear to have won on… one early issues, water supply questions has been eliminated by the casino funding a waterline extension and water tower for the local water district… the rest is simple standard water runoff and perscriptive subsurface disposal… the top of a hill far from water is the safest place to put developement, far from resources and wetlands that could be affected….
as a side note… the androscoggin river alliance… who are they and the 18…. there website has little to no actual information on the group… the leadership page is blank and says coming soon….
One day into the story and it is four pages back.. Hey I’ll buy some ads if you put it back on the front page
Try explaining this all to the employees and businesses affected by the casino, the schools and community that benefit from the money coming into the community. I’m sure they’ll find lots of other alternatives to stay off unemployment and welfare.
I’m not saying laws and the environment are not important, but after the fact – a year after the fact – seems like negligence on the governance board.
Like Oxford needs more “commercial space for lease” signs.
That’s the spirit…show the whole country that our environmental laws are a trap. This actually shows LePage was right.