SOUTH PORTLAND, Maine — Ten percent ethanol-based fuel has been harsh enough on some boats in Maine, but the 15 percent ethanol-based fuel approved by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in June could be “disastrous” to boat owners when it enters the market, a local marina owner said Thursday.
Other representatives of Maine marinas agreed.
Daniel Lilley, owner of Sunset Marina in South Portland, said he has seen numerous boats experience problems with 10 percent ethanol-based fuel, so he’s worried about what will happen when the 15 percent solvent is introduced. In some boats, ethanol-based fuel can cause thousands of dollars in damage to engines, carburetors, fuel tanks and other parts, the marina owner said.
“It’s a Catch-22. [Ethanol-based fuel] is more environmentally friendly but it creates the need for more repairs,” Lilley said. That, he noted, can then lead to increased emissions from repair trucks that need to be on the road more often.
The marina owner said “thousands of dollars are being spent” to address ethanol-based fuel-related problems with boats. The issues range from engine corrosion to complete engine failure, Lilley said, and they’re not just limited to boats.
“It includes anything with a smaller combustion engine,” the marina owner said.
Other marina workers echoed Lilley’s concerns, including Jim Petersen and Steve York of Port Harbor Marine, which has several locations in Maine.
“The problems are vast and widespread,” said York, a boat sales representative at Port Harbor’s Holden location.
Before oil companies were required by the U.S. Energy Policy Act of 2005 to mix ethanol with gasoline, York said his company had to clean and dismantle only six to 12 boat carburetors a year. But after President George W. Bush signed the bill into law, York said the number increased to 150 a year on average.
“It’s very frustrating,” he said.
York and Petersen said moisture absorption in the fuel tank is one of the main issues boats face when using ethanol-based fuel. This happens because hydrogen bonds cause ethanol to attract water from the air. And once enough moisture collects inside the tank, the two said the engine can shut down.
“When you start to have issues with the moisture, it can leave you stranded” in the middle of the ocean, said Petersen, director of service at Port Harbor’s South Portland location.
In order to educate boat owners about the dangers of using E15, the National Marine Manufacturers Association is distributing 100,000 E15 warning labels to its member boat manufacturers to place on their boats. The hope is that boat owners will take notice and avoid using the higher percentage ethanol-based fuel by mistake, according to a press release issued Tuesday.
“If it’s at the same pump as E10, people have the risk of putting E15 into their boats,” said Lauren Dunn, a spokeswoman for the marine group.
The National Marine Manufacturers Association opposes the introduction of E15 fuel into the marketplace, according to the press release, but Dunn said its main concern is to educate people about misfueling.
A representative from EPA was not immediately available for comment, but according to its website, retail gas stations will be required to have a warning label over any E15 pumps to inform people about what vehicles can and cannot accept the new fuel.
Corn is at an all time historic high, food prices are skyrocketing, and the government wants us to put more corn in our fuel tank? Makes sense for Washington fools.
That is a fact that is lost to many people. Not only does the shift to more ethanol cause the price of corn to rise, but other crops and the products made from them also rise in price due to production being shifted from, for example wheat (which often becomes bread) to corn because the crop is worth more.
This is why we should be making ethanol out of hemp instead of food. Hemp will grow on the marginal rocky ground and you can save the good ground for food crops.
Smoke it.
It can be grown with out the THC, so anyone who cares too can go right ahead. Any effects they feel would be purely psychological.
Still doesn’t solve the problem of the ethanol being bad for the engines, but if vehicle and engine manufacturers were to work together and create engines that could run efficiently on high ethanol content we might have something for the future. I see no reason why over time they can’t make fuel with lower and higher ethanol content available at the same time until the old engines that don’t run well or efficiently on high ethanol fuel are phased out and become uncommon. If that were to happen than ethanol would be logical.
Glad to see this is the first comment. I’ve been grousing over this for a bit now and thought no one else had noticed!
Not to mention that ethanol makes gas more expensive, the fuel less efficient and it gums up carburetors in ALL engines especially small engines.
““It includes anything with a smaller combustion engine,” the marina owner said.”
Baloney! Any internal combustion engine and fuel system not designed for it is a target of this stuff. I am into the old car hobby and have seen all the fuel pump diaphragms, flex lines, carbs and fuel tanks ruined. Plus the cars were meant to run on gas, not this. We can’t wait for the E85 to come around…..
Old cars are stored most of the time like boats, but according to Gasfind’s site there are very few places nationwide (mostly marinas) where gas without corn is available. It’s another feel good ‘green’ idea that wasn’t thought out too well.
“Corn is at an all time historic high, food prices are skyrocketing, and the government wants us to put more corn in our fuel tank? Makes sense for Washington fools.”
So what is the percentage of Arabic oil in your fuel ?
Don’t blame us because some Americans in a leadership role , and who don’t believe in Global Warming, officially anyway, still voted to put corn in your gasoline, because they know that you can’t trust them people, over there.
The real solution is even more radical change, isn’t it ?
Got the stones for that for the sake of America’s future ?
So what is the percentage of Arabic oil in your fuel ?
I would guess off the top of my head 25-30%. Too late to break out the numbers.
The use of corn was to help the farmers and the majority of our oil comes from Canada and Mexico.
At least leave some of the unadulterated stuff for vehicles that weren’t designed for it. Even unleaded fuel took years to phase in. That’s not radical, just sensible.
Mandating ethanol was a Bush initiative. It is amazing: could he he do anything right?
He hasn’t been president for a while and last I knew, Congress wrote the laws.
All to often the President doesn’t make the decision himself it gets put out there by advisors, lobbyists, NGO’s, etc… The pressure to sign things into law comes from others and it is not always a good thing for the many.
They will not have to worry about this as a choice will have to made between corn for food or corn for fuel. With the drought this year the choice will have to be made as there will not be enough corn for human and animal needs as well as ethanol needs.
And don’t forget the moonshiners !
But ethanol production is mandated and using corn to feed livestock and humans is not. Other ideologue based solutions to “save the planet” that would exist without mandates and subsidies are wind and solar power.
Take away the subsidies from the corn farmers and that will be the end of ethanol. It takes more fossil fuel to harvest, process and transport ethanol than we get out of it.
True, but most refuse to believe it.
Brainwashed by Cargill, ADM, etc.
Brainwashed by ideologues who push expensive, useless scams on people in their quest to “save the world”!
LOL. Just what we need more high priced gas that cuts performance, gas milage and just plain sucks.
something is wrong with our government, making fuel from food, which has driven up the price of food over the last three years…
I didn’t feel well the other day and wanted a can of chicken noodle soup store brand. it cost $1.49 for one can of soup. doesn’t make sense to me.
The corn that is used for ethanol isn’t suitable for human consumption. Also, the corn they grow is very hard on the land, land that could be used to grow food.
I know that any fuel with ethanol is terrible and hard on equipment but I’m wondering if I should avoid the E15 in my chainsaws, mowers, trimmers, atv’s, ect? I’d like to avoid it at all costs anyways but living in a small town, I’d hate to spend money for extra travel if I don’t need too. However, if that little extra time and money is worth it because my equipment won’t break down I’d definitely go do it. Anyone know of have a link to E15 effects on small engines?
There are fuel stabilizers out now to deal with ethanol based fuels. What hurts the engines is that the fuel lines and various engine fuel system orings and seals weren’t designed for alcohol fuels in some older vehicles and small engines. What happens is that the rubber components dry and crack. Also the fuel itself can be prone to what is called phase separation, where the fuel separates into its component parts. With a fuel stabiler you slow down that process. Newer vehicles aren’t subject to that problem. Do I support ethanol based fuels? No. However it’s something we have to live with until they find something different
I agree with all except we shouldn’t have to live with it. MTBE got a bum rap.
i agree with you, my fuel economy sucks having to burn that stuff.
Why not go to a reformulated blend and use ETBE it is cheaper than ethanol to make. It produces better results for the environment than what Ethanol blended fuels do and wouldn’t cause all the problems that E-10, E-15 does. I have suggested in the past go to higher octane convential reformulated gas similar (89-94 octane) simlar to larger states but have different additives that burn cleaner , that are better for the environment than MTBE, Ethanol. Those states have seen better results with this fuel . Here in Maine it wouldn’t hurt folks with huge car repairs, ruining of boat, snowmobile and power equipment engines. The only issue will be it will be fought by Democrats, Obama and the Powers at Big Ethanol. I think LePage could be a leader on this if he wanted todo so. He could reject Ethanol and go this route. He could also have companies open up plants that make ETBE and create some good paying jobs this way. Most folks in Maine will have issues because most folks will not have cars and other equipment that are E-15 regulated. As I stated why subject folks to huge problems with the car dealers, power equipment dealers because they have not done things to make it E-15 ready.
I agree about having to live with it as much of a bummer as that is. Thanks for the info though!
There is a rubber connection between my fuel tank and filler cap which needs to be replaced . I’ve lost gallons of fuel through leakage trying to diagnose the problem. Thanks for the insite , I never even gave this a thought as a cause.
“…until they find something different.” No additive in gasoline is better than one like ethanol that requires the burning of more fossil fuels in its production than it yields and causes vehicles to get much worse gas mileage, not to even mention all the damage it does to small engines and the expense this incurs to consumers. This is purely a politicaly motivated subsidy for the midwest and the multinational companies who produce the ethanol, without any regard for good energy policy or the consumers who are hurt. A result of politicians at their worst. They have to be aware of the problems and yet they do nothing about it, even our politicians in a state where there is no political or actual benefit to continuing this travesty of energy policy.
In addition to the problems you mention, another problem this solvent in our fuel causes is that it dissolves anything in the gas tank or fuel lines that may have built up over the years, and this clogs the tiny holes in fuel injectors, causing vehicles to run rough, have less power, and get progressively worse gas mileage, until ultimately the injectors have to be removed for an expensive cleaning or replaced.
Something different? How about we drill for the oil under our feet!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh no, can’t do that, must burn food instead!
15% ethanol would be bad for me, given that my car’s manual specifically says not to use gas with more than 10% ethanol. I suspect that many other cars are the same. In state like Maine, where people don’t make a lot, we drive old beaters until they fall apart. Looks like the legislature wants them to fall apart sooner.
Ethanol is crap anyway, it has nowhere near the energy content of gasoline, and we have to burn fossil fuels to produce it.
I once had a pickup that got 25 miles per gallon, before ethanol. It was a 4-cylinder, standard, and four-wheel-drive. With ethanol in the gas, that truck was lucky to get 18 miles per gallon. It sapped fuel economy, and it sapped power. Anyone that’s ever driven a four-cylinder truck knows that they can’t afford to lose any power, and even the slightest drop in horsepower is very noticeable.
We should be eliminating ethanol, not adding more of it. It is a lousy product, and not one positive benefit to the consumer has come from adding it to gasoline.
Actually it’s the EPA and the Obama Administration pushing this change. Congress voted it down. Then Lisa Jackson the head of the EPA who is a huge supporter of Ethanol went to Obama and got the ok to approve the fuel. So its the EPA changing laws without the support of Congress with the help of the President. The did very little testing on this fuel its going to be confusing because most folks cars , boats , and power equipment forbid anything above E-10. It voids the warranty and subjects the owners to huge penalties and other actions taken by the manufacturer if E-15 or higher is used.
One more reason to throw obama out in November!
Had a 6 cyl Ford 3/4 ton that got 11 mpg everywhere , loaded or empty. I started using 10 % ethanol and it dropped to 10 mpg. Can’t say that was to good for the environment or the economy. I think the economic benefits are only realized in corn producing states and by their politicians.
Even worse with my old 4 cylinder. 25 mpg means 10 gallons for 250 miles. To go the same distance with the E10 is 13.89 gallons. If 10% of that is ethanol, and 90% is gas, then that is 12.5 gallons of gas in the mixture. In other words, not only did the ethanol NOT reduce gasoline consumption, it INCREASED it!
“It’s a Catch-22 [Ethanol-based fuel] is more environmentally friendly but it creates the need for more repairs,”Actually, it’s not that environmentally friendly. Corn production and refinement is very fossil-fuel intensive. But, it IS ethanol industry, corn farmer, and midwest politician friendly. Ethanol is the kind of goofy, nonsense program that good lobbying can buy – a lot like wind power. Besides, doesn’t more repairs for boat owners create jobs? And we’ll do anything – even dumb expensive stuff – in the name of creating jobs, right?
The federal gov’t and the states tax gas on a per gallon basis. Ethanol lowers gas mileage so more gallons are used and more revenue for gov’t. This could also be why cars in the US aren’t as efficient on gas as cars in Europe that get much better mileage.
Ethanol, like wind is promoted as environmentally friendly, renewable and green although neither is any of those things. Ethanol and wind are expensive subsidy sucking scams.
Wait until Angus King gets to Washington.
No kidding!
“This could also be why cars in the US aren’t as efficient on gas as cars in Europe that get much better mileage.”
No, it’s much less sinister than that. Europeans don’t have the American love affair with big cars, trucks etc and are perfectly fine driving smaller cars (think Smart, Cooper etc). They also do things like turn the car off at railroad crossings, red lights etc. Very few SUVs and trucks in Europe.
People need to get really angry about the mandates that are passed on to us because the politicians pander to the whiners who want their scam to be supported by tax subsidies and forcing their ideology on to them. Ethanol is such a scam. All the commenters here know it’s shortcomings. But keep in mind, also, that not only are you forced to use it, but the 45 cent per gallon outright subsidy was replaced by the “Renewable Fuel Standard”, which MANDATES that 37% of the corn crop be devoted to ethanil production. This leads directly to this 15% content ruling and a huge windfall for corporate agri-business.
This is the same as “Renewable Portfolio Standards” enacted by states that MANDATE arbitrary percentages ranging from 20% to 50% by some future date (2020 is popular) of all electricity come from renewable sources. In the northeast, the only new renewable resource is wind. In order to meet those mandates, we will blast away thousands of miles of ridges in northern New England to put up tens of thousands of wind turbines that are an unpredictable, unreliable source of power. Then spend tens of billions of dollars expanding transmission lines and adapting the grid for the destabilizing that comes from a skittering source.
Call, email, write, the politicians and tell them to stop MANDATES that support things that are costly, don’t work, and have a negligible impact on the planet’s health. Because the other thing we are losing is the freedom to choose in the marketplace, and having our freedoms erode into a planned, socialist state is un-American.
All one has to do is look at an energy policy that relies on ethanol and windmills to see that our Congress and President have to either be the biggest morons on the face of the planet or a bunch of lying crooks.
lying crooks. would be my guess.
Lying “RICH” crooks ……………
With this administration, I would vote BOTH!
Use diesel,Popeye, it hardly ever explodes in your bilge.
And you gas sorts, where do think that heavy weight oil that l you add to your two stoke engines fuel goes ?
If you are a lover the water, stop f’in it up.
Row , row , row your boat !
yup diesel….i get more per mile with my pickup then my gas job did and its a 1/4 ton bigger…and now the lawn tractor is heading towards diesel soon i hope.
Waste veggie oil is even better. Way cheaper and the car runs better on it. The car and conversion has already been paid for with the savings. BTW why not ask our representatives why the VW bluemotion diesel that gets 70+ mpg is only available in Europe and not in the USA?
It’s amazing how we have to have fuel to function in this world, yet the government keeps finding ways to cost us more to survive. They want us to burn wood pellets instead of oil, the gas is diluted with more alcohol, destroying our engines, more money to fix and maintain them, and an economy that we can’t live on. Were do they expect us to get the money to support the federal budget? Now we have the corn dying in the mid-west due to drought and the fuel is going to go higher in price due to the shortage of corn. Don’t buy foreign oil. Pay more for ethanol. As the world turns.
My vehicle went from 17 miles per gallon to 13.8 on the 10%. This crap has blown two of my sled engines from breaking down(Water) in storage before I was able to get into the woods to use the fuel. The only people who like this are Maine Oil Dealers association because they sell more of it.
Meat prices are through the roof because of this stupid plan
Food should not be fuel period
There is absolutely NO REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS BILL it is just a con for $
This article goes to show how out of touch our so called “representatives” are in Washington D.C. . This is not about helping the environment, it is about fleecing more of our money by the corn industry. I prefer to have a choice to use non-ethanol fuel in my vehicles and small engines.
With 10% ethanol, I have seen a 10% decrease in my gas mileage, thus burning the same amount of gasoline. Coincidence? I think not. Scam? I think so.
Actually Congress voted it down and they voted to stop all ethanol subsidies. It was the Obama Administration and the EPA’s head Lisa Jackson wanting to continue this farce becuse Obama and Jackson are backed by “BIG Ethanol”. They went against what congress wanted and used their executive powers to pass the E-15. The problem with the E-15 as I stated it had very little testing the results on it were not favorable from the test done by Government. With problems to car parts with exhausts issues, alternator issues, fuel pump issues, injector issues. The test also shown a drop of mileage in some cases 20%+ in some vehicles. With a 10 to 15% drop more in horsepower on top of what is occuring now with the E-10. It is a nightmare that will cause folks hardship on their wallets. But as long as this president and jackson is in office expect this scam to continue. The only way Ethanol will work is mandating E-85 across the board as the transportation fuel for citizens. Having a program similar to cash for clunkers so folks can get rebates and other help to get vehicles that use the E-85. If not they need to go back to regular gas higher octane blends, with Reformulated cleaner burning that was used in the 1990’s if they want to have cleaner air.
Thank you for the information.
If I see 10% decrease in mileage with 10% ethanol. What’s the chances of seeing another 5% decrease with this 15% ethanol crap that is being forced down our throats?
What really sucks with the E/10 is when you take out one of your smaller engines to use the tanks are contaminated with water… What to do ? Dump it on the ground is what I have to do as there’s no place available to dispose of it properly… Yup that’ll save the environment , I use to save it in an old gas can to use to start bon fires with and that sheet won’t even ignite :-/ That stuff is junk and killer in small motors,, aviation gas is the only way to go !!!!!
With the ongoing drought across the country, the price of corn is skyrocketing and so will the price of gasoline. Now they can blame it on expensive Arabian oil AND high corn prices.
Our elected officials are so out of touch it isn’t funny. They make the big bucks, have a free Cadillac health plan and a pension plan to die for. All the while us peasants are starving while looking for a decent wage paying job.
Oil companies should be required to treat ethanol/gas with the water repellent that we now must add at our expense.
And they would pass that expense on to us!
Why do they even make ethanol for anything but drinking. They use more oil for the farm equipment, transportation and fertilization than they get back in product. Burning a gallon of oil to make a pint of alcohol, doesn’t make any sense especially where farming is a polluting business by nature.
That’s Liberal thinking for you!
Nah, it’s farm and distillery government subsidy thinking.
You suffer from political fanaticism. Give it a break and clear your head.
Typical Liberal response – When something has proven to be a failure, do MORE of it!
BOAT is an acronym for Bring On Another Thousand.
When ethanol first came into Maine, I had fueled up my boat before going on a sea-duck hunting adventure in late fall. That stuff made my outboard run so bad we almost didn’t make it TO the island we were hunting, much less make it back. The only reason we didn’t have to call out the Coast Guard (or local lobstermen) for a rescue is I had a spare motor on board with a separate non-ethanol fuel source.
since then I have spent outrageous amounts of $$ having outboard carbs cleaned, fuel tanks flushed, and on buying overpriced fuel treatments…all just to keep things running safe and sound. Boating on the ocean is enough of an adventure without having a dumb issue like ethanol fuel to deal with!
It’s also an issue with collector cars, chain saws, etc…any engine which will end up sitting unused for extended periods.
Did I mention this stuff pis*es me off and drives my wife crazy with fear every time I head out on the bay??!!
I have a 2009 harley davidson and it states in the owners that that the alcohol content of the gas to to used should not exceed 10%. With that statement I understand that using gas in this motorcycle rated at e85 or 15% alcohol will damage it’s engine and void my warranty.
Ask any farmer. Corn is for cows, not cars or any other gasoline run engines. My farm Co-op only sells 100% gasoline. Not mentioned are all the other type of engines this has been adversely affecting. Riding mowers on down to hand held machines. Chainsaws, weedwackers, leaf blowers, etc. etc. Yesterday just talked to my small engine repairman at his shop. He drained the tank on a small engine and it was loaded with water. The cost for repairs and/or replaceement far outweights any “green” benefit that MIGHT exist.
WHERE HAS THIS BEEN HIDING SINCE JUNE??? THE MSM HAS BEEN TOO BUSY WITH BIASED POLITICS!! 15% CORN?? THAT’S A 50% INCREASE ON THE EXISTING 10% !!! THE ARTICLE ONLY ADDRESSES BOAT USAGE BECAUSE IT IS A MARINE ARTICLE.
THIS STUFF ADVERSELY AFFECTS EVERYTHING THAT IS GASOLINE OPERATED. INCLUDING CARS STARTING WITH DECREASED MPG DUE TO POOR ENGINE PERFORMANCE WHICH MIGHT NOT BE NOTICABLE TO THE AVERAGE DRIVER.
More ethanol equals lower gas mileage so you buy more gas. How does this help us? Pay one way or the other.
It doesn’t help us. The politicians don’t care since they don’t have to pay for gas.
Ethanol makes corn tortillas more expensive and causes more illegal Mexicans to come to USA for work!
Wisconsin has a better set up, that maybe Maine should follow: regular gas has ethanol in it but super does not allowing customers to use the super in lawn mowers, snowmobiles, boats, chainsaws, older vehicles, Atvs and other gas powered motors without ruining them with the ethanol. Probabiliy too much on the common sense approach for out legislaure to understand.
Corn? What corn, we got a drought, corn dying, what are they talking about, besides the only gas not good, is the gas you cannot find or afford, they got additives, used to run the model A on kerosene.
Since President Obama thinks this is a great idea, how about mixing 15% ethanol with Air Force 1 fuel for his next trip, Oh and make sure he takes Lisa Jackson on the flight!!
Good time to switch to compressed natural gas; if you have natural gas you can buy a Honda or conversion kit and a compressor for your garage.
Repeal the ethanol requirements now!!!!