BANGOR, Maine — There is no official record that the Rev. Robert Carlson “ever took a class” through the New York Theological Seminary but it appears he did earn a degree, seminary President Dale Irvin said Monday.
A Master of Professional Studies diploma in Carlson’s name from New York Theological Seminary is included in the heavily redacted 104-page Maine State Police report released last week that incriminates him as a serial child sex abuser.
Carlson committed suicide in November shortly after learning he was under investigation by state police for alleged child sexual abuse involving a boy.
The eight-month investigation revealed that Carlson sexually abused numerous children.
The Bangor Daily News published a story in January about Carlson’s work and educational background, and at that time Irvin said the New York seminary did not have any records that a Robert T. Carlson was ever enrolled there.
That is still true, but in the time since the story ran, additional information has surfaced, including a graduation program from 1986 that lists Carlson’s name, the seminary president said this week.
Irvin said a former administrator apparently set up an affiliation with Bangor Theological Seminary and it appears the diploma was issued through that partnership.
“He’s got a legitimate degree, but I can’t tell you anything about the program,” Irvin said. “I don’t have his name in any student records here.”
Keith Russell was president of New York Theological Seminary in the mid-1980s and remains employed, but “he doesn’t have any memory of [the partnership program with Bangor]” and doesn’t remember signing the diploma, Irvin said.
“I’m in no position to say it was fraudulent, … but it is irregular,” Irvin added.
A resume Carlson submitted to the Maine Criminal Justice Academy, where he was a volunteer instructor for more than 25 years, apparently contained incorrect information.
On the resume, which was provided to the BDN by John Rogers, the academy’s director, Carlson listed himself as a “trainer hostage negotiator” for the New York Police Department in 1972, but police officials in the Big Apple said he was never an employee.
A background check was not done when he started at the police academy in Maine because “at the time, he was a captain at the Penobscot County Sheriff’s Office,” Rogers said.
Carlson taught Interpersonal Communications and the last time he was in front of a class of Maine Criminal Justice Academy cadets was on Nov. 3, 2011, just 10 days before he jumped to his death from the Penobscot Narrows Bridge.
Shouldn’t the man’s theological credentials or lack thereof be certified one way or the other? A lot of people were married by this guy (or were they?). And, I will say again, fraudulent credentials would be, in addition to him being a SERIAL CHILD RAPIST, a fine reason for EOCC’s Pastor Carl to END THE DISGRACE by removing his name and smikring mug from “Carlson Hall”. Whaddya say, Pastor?
Unless he married you and your wife and you are a member of EOCC it’s probably not really any of your business is it? If every marriage that was performed by a priest, pastor, notary or Rabbi that later on down the road proved to be not in good stead with the law or church was nullified I suppose we’d have two pretty long lines, one at the church, and the other at the courthouse. Let it go.
If he didnt personally defraud me or my church, I should let it go.
Obviously I disagree. As MLK said, injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, or words to that effect. A look the other way culture of silence helped this man, and many more like him, succeed at his crimes. This is not a guy just running afoul of the law at some point, its a guy who fraudulently obtained the very professional credentials he then used to gain access to victims. I agree that the abuse was worse than the fraud, but the fraud is inseparable becuase it enabled the abuse. Unless people take a zero tolerance approach, and refuse to “let it go”, the cycle continues.
For folks that have been married in that church -I’m pretty sure that they are more concerned about God recognizing their marriage than you, me or anyone else-past or present. Pastor Carl is one heck of a guy and he’s more than likely counseled those couples that have had any concerns surrounding their vows. The pastor is only one part of the church and what goes on there. These folks are married in the eyes of God. Ask him when you get to heaven. Have good evening…
Pastor Carl is no sparking diamond….ask people in Hermon who have known him. Sorry to say.
oh??
maybe they should of spoke up when they had a chance!!!!!
Nicely said.
There could be people who believed they were married by Carlson many years ago and were never legally married. this can have HUGH ramifications for their lives. Are their children legitimate? Can the spouses draw Social Security on one another? the list goes on and on.
In short if you are married by a person that claims they have the lawful ability to marry you and it turns out they don’t “if the marriage is in other respects lawful and consummated with a full belief, on the part of either of the persons married, that they are lawfully married.” MRSA Title 19-4 Section 657.
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/19-A/title19-Asec657.html
I know a couple married by Carlson and they believed he was lawfully
ordained to marry them at the time of the marriage. They are still
married today and their marriage is just as lawful as any other
marriage.
Doesn’t that kind of make any laws about marriage and divorce completely moot?
Some people think they are all kinds of things that they are not.
If you have a marriage license issued by the state, you are married in the eyes of the law
I have a license and I’m not married, not planning on it either. Neither do I consider myself married and so the license means nothing in all eyes.
As Tom Jones said, it will not be reconized anywhere else especially now that this smut is nation wide knowledge.
You avoid the religious implications for those who are devout. I doubt they really care what MRSA says on the subject.
My post was pointing out what Maine law says about people that are “married” and them later discover the person that “married” them were not authorized to “marry” them.
What people choose to do with that information is up to them.
For the record I don’t think God is going to hold anything against the couple that was “married” by a phony and a fraud. It wasn’t the couples fault after all.
For the record I don’t believe that a God could lack understanding either but sometimes the beliefs of the truley devout confuse me. Each to their own.
I can’t say I disagree with your post.
Marriage, as we know it today, is a legal contract with the state…..there are no religious implications other than in the minds of the people involved.
But what if the couple moves to another state and that state says no, or the fedral government says no?
Marriage licenses are recognized state to state.
That is an excellent question and one that can be answered fairly simply. The couple have a valid marriage license issued by the state of Maine and the law says it is still a legal binding contract.
However, it would be very interesting if the marriages were all of a sudden null and void. Then maybe people would understand what a married same sex couple know from first hand experience every day of the week….no federal recognition of their marriage and loss of state benefits and recognition.
If you want to make this a gay issue, then going along with all marriages null and void, not many people are going to complain about not getting that under $300.00 death benefit. Neither will anyone need to make issue of marriage that only means you are legally bound to pay the partners bills after they die, even if they get sued for wrong doing the lucky spouse who lives gets to pay that too. I suspect any number of people will be suing Carlsons estate leaving his lucky “married” spouse to lose everything and still have to pay. Oh the benefits of marriage.
“These folks are married in the eyes of God.” Perhaps…but not in the eyes of the I.R.S.
If the state issued license in in evidence, they are married in the eyes of the IRS
This is an important distinction to make. The child sexual abuse is the worst part of all of this, but it would have been much more difficult to have access to children and the trust of their parents and community members had he not deceived people into thinking he was a legitimate member of the clergy and law enforcement community. His supposed clergy and law enforcement credentials enabled him access and trust, two very important ingredients child molesters use; as well as members of the clergy who prey on their congregants. Noone wants to think or speak about clergy members preying on their congregants, as so many people view them as “men of God” and in some religions as instruments of God and “spokesmen” for God. When in fact they are no more than fellow human beings who are hired to do a job for the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, etc. Like any other professional, when they abuse that trust they must be removed from that position and moved to prison upon conviction. Honorable clergy members never, ever use their position of spiritual authority and trust to gain access sexually to members of their congregation. In Carlson’s position both as a supposed clergy member and law enforcement agent, he used it within and outside of the church to gain access to children. It goes without saying, but can never be said enought that he was a pathetic evil man who has left unmeasurable pain with his victims, and also harm to community members and institutions as well. For any victims of clergy sexual abuse, the trauma will never be completely healed as the memories will always be there, but there are important resources available for children who have been sexually abused by clergy. One of several very important organizations is SNAP (www.snapnetwork.org) Although it is dedicated to children abused by Catholic Priests, the information applies to all religions as children are abused by Pastors, Priests, Rabbis, Muslim Clerics, and all other religions. For women who have been sexually abused by a clergy member, The Hope of Survivors (www.thehopeofsurvivors.org) is an excellent resource, among other fine organizations. If you have been sexually abused by a clergy member as a child or as an adult, do not hesitate to contact these organizations, report it to the authorities, and secure very experienced legal counsel. This is crucial to do as you can guarantee the clergy member and their church, synagogue, temple. etc. will seek out the best legal counsel and will stop at nothing to protect themselves. We have been there and learned the hard way by not securing proper legal counsel, so please don’t make our mistake. The ramifications go beyond the abuse itself, and can negatively impact on the survivor and family financially for many years to come.
So what? Dig him up and hang him? Strip him of any actual credentials post humanously? Rename the Verona Island bridge the “Freedom from child-abuse Bridge?”
Of course you might grab someone who had the misfortune of crossing Carlson’s path and making that person responsible for Carlson’s deeds. My guess is that someone will have to pay for this incident. Why not Renee Ordway (who lauded this man) why not Glen Ross who was his admitted “friend?”
The other option is we could always fall back on the old standbys and blame Obama, and/or Bush.
Please don’t. I’d like to see every act of fraud ever committed by this … man … exposed.
He took the good name, the respect, the admiration, and the good will of these communities, exploited it, used it, and abused it…
My only regret is he won’t spend decades in prison.
The man was a fraud, and a child molester. Good riddance.
and I don’t believe westshores was disagreeing with that. He was simply stating a fact that Carlson married alot of people who are now concerned .
Maine law has a provision that if people were married in good faith by someone who claimed to have the legal authority to do so, then they are indeed married. So, those who were married by Carlson would be considered legally married.
True.
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/19-A/title19-Asec657.html
(However, in my own personal opinion, this issue illustrates yet another reason that civil marriage should be considered separate from ‘church’ marriage; i.e. you should be considered married in the eyes of the law when the municipal clerk issues the license, as is done in most other modern countries.)
Agreed PitchPine. My spouse and I were married abroad and we were required to marry by a civil servant empowered by the law to do so. Only then are you married. It’s your own choice whether you also have a church service to be married in the eyes of God. The church unions had no authority legally.
Having been married abroad means you were not legally married within the licensing domain of this country (unless there is agreement between the countries). That is the reason you were required to be married by a civil servant OR a licensed clergy to make your marriage legal here. It has nothing to do with having been married by a clergyman or a state official, but everything to do with legalizing the marriage in this country. You could just as well have been remarried by a clergy here …. a licensed marriage is a licensed marriage regardless of whether it is performed by clergy or state agent.
LOL… you mean our Bedouin Drum Ceremony was all for nothing???
Just out of curiosity, which “modern” countries are you refering to? What defines “modern country”?
The only countries that I know of with such practices are asian, and most asian cultures are quite ancient.
I am not saying this would not be a good thing for this country to do.
Almost all, if not all, western European countries draw a clear distinction between civil marriage which is sanctioned by the state and absolutely necessary for a couple to be legally married, and the religious ceremony that in a sense does no more than bless the union.. While the two things can happen at the same time in most cases in Europe they are two totally seperate events.
France does it this way. My brother was married there several years ago. Civil ceremony on Friday evening; church ceremony on Saturday. Legally married at the Friday ceremony.
While this would make it a bit more complicated to get married and might deter some people from jumping into it; it is not the law in our country. To spend time, energy, and money on changing this law at this time would be a horrible waste. Wouldn’t that time, energy, and money be better spent by researching and tightening up laws with reference to child abuse? Just asking.
Why would it matter if the marriage were performed by a licensed state official or a licensed church official? Unless I misunderstand you, you’re suggesting that there should be categories of marriage….some more legal or less legal than others. A marriage license is issued by the state regardless of where the marriage is performed or who the licensed official is.
( I’m retracting the response that was in this space, since I see the issue was already explained by others, and I don’t want prolong or rehash this side-discussion more than it needs to be. Sorry about that).
Sorry but his victims can not let it go!!! “RELIGION IT SELF IS FULL OF HYPOCRITES… I FOR ONE THINK WE PUT TO MUCH FAITH and TRUST in our pastors , ministers ect… .. obviously Satin was the head of EOCC!!!!! Today we are seeing how corrupt our religous leaders are… and that is why organized religion is getting a bad name and people are losing there faith in GOD AND CHURCH… how in the heck can you say “LET IT GO!?” that so call man was pure EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After reading WESTSHORES post I believe they were referring to the question if a couple married by Carlson are really married (they are according to Maine law) and not the child abuse victims when they said “Let it go”.
But Satin is so smooth elegant! Hard to believe it could go from prom dresses to evil and corruption…
Love your comment! As an English language nerd, I get a kick out of misspellings! Thanks for the morning giggle…..
I was going to say I prefer silk…..you said it better…..had me giggling….
Yeh, satin is kind of like sold snot. (barf)
what are you talking about Barb…….what is sold snot……
I agree. Religion can cause society to turn a blind eye to a true wrong. For all of those individuals out there of the religious (any religion) stance be aware of your surroundings and don’t just trust someone because they tell you too. Not for god’s sake but for man kind’s sake, stop being so religiously blind that you would fallow an evil monster and defend him even after the truth has been revealed. I, as many others have, saw who attended this person’s funeral, and I can tell you that I have never seen so many nuns in one person’s funeral before in this area. To not know what was going on is bad, to not want to know is by far worse but to not care and back this man by even showing a bit of support to him at his funeral , in many peoples eyes may be unforgivable. I can only hope that someday the blinders of society come off and people start to take a stand against even the all powerful socially elite when they see a wrong. To who ever wrote the letter that sparked this investigation, I thank you and so do all those that may have been his next sheep being taken to slaughter. Yes one voice did make a difference, imagine what many can do.
I also agree. I wonder how many of the people who are asking that we “let it go” with reference to this man are the same people who scream about the same thing within the confines of the RCC? Anybody willing to step forward and show me what are the distinction between this case and the cases of the RCC cases?
Groups of people in general can cause them to turn a blind eye to a true wrong. It’s called mob mentality. Unfortunately as history has shown, it’s not only religion that people follow into horrible atrocities.
I haven’t broached it because it is not important to me to ask, it is their business not mine. “Let it go”? I commented on an article, big deal, get over it. In addition, this article, if true could impact couples married by him if he was not able to legally perform marriages. I’m not even interested in the rest of your assumptions……..
Again, read above….if a license is issued by the state, the marriage is legal. Carlson would have had a state license to perform marriages (just as legal as any notary’s license). The only reason a marriage license issued by the state would not be legal would be if the secular (or unlicensed) parties involved had lied with reference to the right to marry. Even then, after a given period of time, unless polygamy is the case, the marriage is legal. Get over it, people, the couples married by Carlson are legally married. Perhaps it isn’t the worry that the marriage may be illegal, but the knowledge that they were married by someone who was a criminal in another part of life. Is it that the religious people involved are worried they are not married or that they are hoping the ceremony was illegal rather than having been married by someone who, in retrospect, has been shown to be a criminal? Could it be that these people are looking to cut off their noses to spite their faces? Think of the impact on the minds of your children if you decide to take steps to prove the are “bastards”. The merely act of taking those steps will impact those children, regardless of the outcome.
I think a person has every right to say what he or she would do in a given situation and you have no right to tell them to keep their opinions to themselves. Who exactly do you think you are?
His face should be removed from everything. His good did not outweigh his bad. There is no accomplishment or good deed that this man did that should stand. Everything should be stripped from him. Period. If he married my husband and I, I would renew my vows with a minister with whom I trust and renew my marriage under the truth.
Lets hope he had Justice of the peace or notary license at the very least to perform a civil ceremony so these people are legal…
How do you know who you can trust now?
Keep in mind the DA and the Sheriff are elected positions
I know a couple “married” by him but I haven’t broached the topic. Carlson was disgusting.
maybe they aren’t really married then.
And he probably performed a lot of baptisms too. Are they valid?
A baptism is a religious ceremony and has nothing to do with legality. A baptism is a show of acceptance into a community. Do you want to retract the acceptance of your child into your church community. Think before you act when the welfare of others is involved. Don’t place a stigma on your child because of your personal misgivings. In other word, leave it alone…unless you think ‘god’ is so petty, that your child will not be received in ‘heaven’ because the man who sprinkled water on the kids head didn’t have a legal license.
So, was Carlson in prison for this so called degree? Given possible other actions and perpetration? Need to look deeper into this one especially since it is an unusual situation.
Well, they said in an earlier article the degree he earned was only allowed by prisoners. So, was he ever in prison and how did he get this unusual finishing of his degree in Bangor, yet his degree is from New York. It does not add up.
Carlson is just one example of a phony clergyman who blows into town from out of state, claims he is a pastor, starts gathering a flock, and adding to it, and adding to it through the years. Carson is not the only Bangor area pastor who is not at all who people think he is.
What was he in prison for? Could be that Robert Carlson is not his true Idenity. Where was he born? Where did he grow up, and pictures of him in his younger years?
I would like to Thank the BDN for printing these stories about Bob Carlson.
Me too. AND they should keep it up!
Perhaps with this man’s suspected resume now becoming a focal point, It might behoove the law emforcement community to run background checks on all of their support staff and auxillary personnel.
Mr. Carlson may not be the only one employed with faked/false credentials.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Just saying.
I’m still waiting for the pound of cure. I’ll feel better when somebody is wearing handcuffs for failing to report this creep.
Ya, where is the govnah with that?
Protecting one of the worst apoligists for the rapist and paying him with our tax dollars.
You are 100% right, firecap. Remember those days when pulp magazines and comics had ads for people to order various “licenses” or “degrees?”
This man’s ability to hide in plain sight is alarming. Even more alarming is that he did it while wrapping himself in our most trusted institutions – the ministry, law enforcement, even teaching. Scary man.
I’m glad that the BDN is keeping this story alive, but I wish you’d chase the people who helped him do this, instead of the ghosts of his past. We all know the guy was a complete liar. I want to know who he conned into helping him and what the DA is going to do about it.
I was fooled by this man. I would Never have expected all of what has come out. It is shocking, devasting, and yes….alarming. We need to talk to our children about abuse. We need to tell them that it isn’t right and not their fault, but most of all, that they will be safe from now on.
And, thanks to guys like this, we need to remind them not to trust people who seem trust-worthy.
Absolutely…and this is a perfect example why..trust no one..
Please don’t tell children their safe until those who remained silent about the abuse they knew had happened and was occuring at the time are also prosecuted, tried and convicted, and removed from a system that is mandated to protect them. Don’t drop or dodge the ball on this. Grab it and run with it. There is nothing stopping you candlday.
Thank God my children weren’t involved in this case. But, because of scum like this. I did have to sit down and talk to them about it all. They knew Carlson, but I thank God they never developed a clse relationship with him.
A lot of people were fooled by this man. I have no idea why, but when I first met him, many years ago, I was disturbed by the fact that when I shook his hand he averted his eyes. For me, this is a ‘tell’. My experience has been that if a person does not look you in the eye, at least upon introduction, that person is being evasive and probably has something to hide. Again, the is my experience so my opinion, but I’ve met many people who avoid direct eye contact with people who seem to be able to ‘read’ a ‘hidden agenda’. I never trusted him, and when I began hearing rumors about him a few years later, I wasn’t surprised.
I doubt that the DA will be doing anything about it
Right up there with Ralphy.
Not trying to defend Almy, but we have to remember he is limited by what the state law says re. mandated reporting. He can’t just make up laws or twist them to fit his personal viewpoint or everything would get thrown out of court.
I know right now people want someone to blame. I suggest we blame the legislators who crafted this useless law and were too short-sighted to see its ineffectiveness. Back to the drawing board.
I agree that the laws with ref to child abuse should be in constant scrutiny; however, if officials assisted in keeping the knowledge of these crimes from being investigated, those officials should be taken to task. If they assisted in covering up these crimes, chances are they’ve assisted in covering others.
As it now stands, the law makes no provisions for punishment of any kind, which renders it completely useless.
You bring up a good point, Barb. I wonder, since they can’t be punished under the Mandatory Reporting law, if they could be considered to have “aided and abetted in the commission of a crime?” Surely that must fall under some statute which could be used.
Lets not let this go . Mr. Almy Stated that he will have to see if its in the interest of the state or the people to do anything. We all know thier are more MR. Carlsons doing bad things being covered for. Are thier more around Bangor? That we do not know . Just saying this is not the first case in the world . Mr. Almy needs to go if he dose not have the backbone to take a tough stance. Maybe he would not have a case . But at lease try and let people know it is not ok to do nothing . He bought up child abuse and child molesters in the Brownville mothers case to make a strong point . He dd the right thing making a case against her for underage drinking but real child molesters and enablers he turns a blind eye. I found know humor in the benefit supper held by Boyscouts for him when even high ups in the Bangor police department suspected him for wrong doing. 2 officers but they reported to thier Boss . Hmmmmmmm?
Who cares! He has been exposed as a person who molested children and when he was found out he killed himself. This in itself has proven his whole life is a fraud.
Except that people who are still alive helped make this possible. We need to know who they are.
I know that so many people have been hurt by all of these revelations, but please folks, be nice to one another on here. You don’t know how he may have hurt someone. I was fooled by him as well. I would have entrusted him with the care of my children. I never got that “creepy” feeling from him. I’m hurt, angry, sad, and a whole lot more emotions because of my failure to recognize the man for what he was. I trusted him. Many people trusted him. I pray for his widow, whom was also deceived by this man. Please folks, be nice to eachother. HIS wrongdoings can never be fixed, he was a liar, a cheat, a pedophile, and also a coward. He took the easy way out.
I agree that he did terribly things but that doesn’t negate the good he did. he helped grieving people and helped poor people get affordable health care. Let’s recognize that a child abuser doesn’t have 3 heads. also, this will help us to recognize others in the future.
Doing good things for the wrong reasons is just plain EVIL . Every good conman dose good things to win trust and cover tracks.
Most child molesters are very helpful people who do many, many good things. This is one of the ways they insert themselves into the lives of families in order to have access to children. When the acts of good are performed with the agenda of abusing others I feel no need to define them as altruistic. I’ve also helped many people with regard to getting assistance with their needs. If I use those deeds to assist in performing a crime, are you also willing to excuse my criminal activities? Or is that forgiveness reserved only for those who are legally licensed clergy?
This report was good but I do not think they could have found all the facts no matter how hard they tried.
And we do not know if his widow wasn’t deceived by him.
Agreed Thank you sir for taking a strong stance on this issue . I edited my post . I will try and keep more on topic. We know enough of wrong doing on many people’s parts and we need to address those issues .
Big possibility, his granddaughter was making posts on facebook. Everyone is lying why is everyone doing this. . He was a good decent caring man, blah blah blah, I’m not naive. He would never do these things.
Agreed…my post was in response to Bobby’s original post (now edited) that said in affect “And we do not know if his widow was deceived by him.”
Carlson was a master at deception and lies.
Poor child, but who would want to admit their grandfather was that sort of monster (unless she was also a victim, which doesn’t appear to be the case)???
I ALWAYS got that creepy feeling from him. I used to tell people that. Everyone blew it off…
Creeped me out, too……
While pedophyle is really the evil, you also add liar, cheat and coward. Most of us are guilty of at least one of these and many of all three.
We as a nation elect people that are guilty of these three and many other “sins” every year.
Can you NOT post a picture of this monster with every article that is written??? Please!!!!!
I agree! Seeing his picture must sicken the families he has affected.
I don’t think that’s necessary. He’s already been tried and found guilty in both the eyes of the law and the public arena. Let’s not punish an innocent family for the acts of a member of that family.
What’s not necessary?
Didn’t we read he (carlson) was a dishwasher at a coffee shop the then Sherriff used to visit and hired Carlson based in his word? Well, we see where that got him. Looks like the good old boy network was around then and is still alive and well now. Right Sherriff Ross and Comissioner Beardsley?
I think they both need to go, Ross in particular. Why is he still Sheriff???
He was a classic psychopath. They always leave plenty of damage behind.
The extent of this man’s deception is simply becoming just mind boggling. Once all the falsehoods, untruths, and misinformation have been removed can anyone say that they actually knew who Robert Carlson really was?
Once again, the article begins with “Rev.” Carlson. That journalists are still using that distinction is outrageous in itself.
Right. He’s no more of a Reverend than Charlie Manson is.
That is exactly correct.
There is a word for calling evil good, and good evil.
It’s called “Mansonism.”
That goes for anyone who says that abortion or homosexual “marriage” is a good thing.
America has become a Mansonist society.
“Christians bad. Bible bad. Homosexuals good.”
You have hit on a profound truth.
In the final analysis, Bob the Bugger had the same spirituality as Charles Manson.
I am for abortion and homosexuals…..why are you so hung up on these two things Son? You can’t have an abortion and no one will know how afraid you are of homosexuals as long as you don’t keep going on and on about how you hate them….as a woman I don’t think you have a right to tell me what to do with my body and child if I so choose…if you are truly worried about what God thinks of me well, thank you but that’s none of your business …it is between God and I…. Frankly I worry for your soul because it seems to be consumed with so much hate but that again, is none of my business….I will pray for you. ….by the way Carlson was not a homosexual….he was a pedophile…..you are right about only one thing……Carlson and Manson were both SOCIOPATHS…..
I do believe the word “Mansonism” already has a definition and it is the first one listed when you Google the word: “A religious movement which has chosen shock-rocker Marilyn Manson as its living deity. Followers of this religion are known as Mansonites. The place of worship for Mansonites is a concert venue when Marilyn Manson performs. Other forms of worship include repeatedly listening to his music and adapting his lyrics into one’s everyday vocabulary. There is no set dress code, although Mansonites have a tendency to dress at least partly in black. All other aspects of the Mansonites’ life are up to them as individuals to decide upon and they are free to cease their belief at whatever time they deem it appropriate.”
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Mansonism
In the final analysis this article has nothing to do with a) homosexuality, b) same sex marriage, c) Charles Manson, d) Marilyn Manson or e) or you made up word.
Really!!! They really should stop..but I suppose it attention getting on the front page and they want to make sure everyone knows he did this under the name of REVEREND…we all know he was a fake.
In Maine you have to be certified to perform weddings. If you misrepresent yourself as eligible to perform weddings, you can be fined for doing so — $100 per violation. The Saturday he performed my wedding, he did 2 others. He said that on some days he’d do 5 weddings.
Even though he may have fraudulently represented himself as a minister and performed marriages as such, the marriages are valid (darnit) under the law. That’s what this gobblygook supposedly says: http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/19-A/title19-Asec657.html
While others were calling town clerks’ offices to check the validity of their marriage, me and others I’ve been told were checking to make sure ours were not. Think since he’s now dead and can’t be fined thousands and thousands of dollars, persons who were married by him and want the marriage declared null and void should have that right, and those couples that want their marriage to be valid should have that peace of mind.
I’ve read and reread that law so many times, if not for the headline “lack of jurisdiction or authority,” I would challenge the validity of my marriage because the language of the law is not written coherently. That’s just for me, though, not other couples who are in happy, loving relationships.
In short if you are married by a person that claims they have the lawful ability to marry you and it turns out they don’t “if the marriage is in other respects lawful and consummated with a full belief, on the part of either of the persons married, that they are lawfully married.”
I know a couple married by Carlson and they believed he was lawfully ordained to marry them at the time of the marriage. They are still married today and their marriage is just as lawful as any other marriage.
I think they are looking for a “cheap” way out of their marriage. :-)
And what’s wrong with that? Would you like to spend thousands of dollars for an attorney who basically sits there and collects $200-$300 an hour? For people whose “marriages” may be bad ones because of violence or abuse, this would give them a chance to leave, saying they’re not legally married and head to safer homes instead of a long, drawn-out court proceeding.
Didn’t say there was anything wrong with it, just trying to explain to them your reasoning for the post, that’s all. :-)
How can a person be a pillar in the comminity when no one knows who that person is? This man even fooled his own family.
I know. It is shocking, I agree, to learn about how skilled the abusers are at deception. They are almost two distinct people: a public one who does no wrong and a private one who does no right. Society’s only defense is knowledge. Google “pedophilia” and educate yourself. Learn what common traits they have and how they operate.
maybe he had 2 or more personalities
Let’s call a spade a spade: Carlson (not, as the Bangor Daily inexplicably insists, “the Rev. Carlson”) was a fraud. So what if he was listed in the commencement program? That doesn’t mean he actually graduated.
He was probably clever enough to fake that too. He could have hacked their files.
He was a freakin’ piece of s#$%. He abused any boy he could. People who know more and are reading this share what you know. Otherwise, how can we collectively protect children? PLEASE. Yes, please speak up what you know for the children.
He also abused adults. Still a crime with that, too.
Most pedophiles leave a trail of many, many victims. Google “pedophilia” to learn how these monsters operate. And as WeRLosing says, SPEAK up.
Guess he won’t be popping up in Susan Collins next commercial ad.
Depends on if she wants to stand a chance in hell of even making the ballot or not? ; )
Or Showcase Homes’.
Or officiating her wedding this weekend.
Sad to say, we as a people can apparently no longer trust who someone says they are. This is especially true if they are going to be in contact with our children. Trust but verify, as Pres. Reagan said.
I miss Reagan…
When it comes to my children, I’m much more of the line of thinking to verify before trusting.
Lets all talk to are state Reps to make a serious punishment guidelines for failure to report child abuse . Make it up to a year in jail . We do not want Almy to have more excuses to do nothing. How many more evil people are allowed to hide because who they are?
has anyone ever thought about how many cash draws his hands have been in. ( hope house, PCHC, boy scouts, youth groups, the church itself, police department, BMHI,Husson, the list could go on and on ) can you say embesslement??? or how many people from the church allowed him to be their beneficary of their will because they trusted in him. how much MONEY LINED HIS POCKETS OVER THE YEARS!!! how many young people did he pay off not to tell about his molestations RAPE??? There are still many sides to this story that I bet run deeper than just being a child rapist…..just saying
I have said the same thing. He was an A+ scammer. I know of people who did exactly that..sign their property over to him. He was always snooping around when people were sick and dying..at home or the hospital…he had free range everywhere. What a total sicko..
People who signed property to him have legal recourse. It’s called “Constructive Trust”. Check it out in the statutes of Maine State Legislature. A judge once used this statute, inappropriately, to strip me of my property rights….I would think a current judge would be able to overturn deeds signed by people to Carlson now that all this is coming to light. If a Constructive Trust is created with ulterior motives, i.e. to gain illegal rights to property that one is not entitled to, that deed can be overturned.
the way I heard it that property belonged to your ex-boyfriend….had been in his family for generations……
This is good information..thanks for it..I will pass it on…
You are correct, but will the authorities do the right thing and continue to investigate, not only his probable crimes, but of those who chose to cover for him, those that have been elected, appointed, even those in LE who were in fear of his ability to convince LE leaders that they were bad.
what is LE?
Law Enforcement.
I think most know that his long term relationship target (D) was being feed drugs by Carlson for years. I agree with you 100%. His access to drugs was 24/7 and he used those drugs to give to his victims. This person jumping from the bridge…well….I’ll restain.
Was he involved with the Teenscreen testing group, the one that is a front for the big Pharm companies. 33% of the kids tested are diagnosed with some type of mental illness and incouraged to take the mood and mind stabilizing drugs.
He NEVER had access to funds while employed at PCHC…he was a paid spokesman. Period.
Really people??? This much attention to the person who was a predator!! When tomorrow we get to see 32 years of a unsolved murder of a East Millinocket girl. We have former State Police commenting on what was done wrong… But we cannot get the State Police to ask the F.B.I. to examine what they have…. This man took his own life…. Someone took hers!!!!!!!!!
what are you talking about?
I wonder where Carlson was at the time of Joyce’s death?
Who really cares at this point…he is gone to the flaming pit where he belongs. I just can’t stand seeing his sickening face in the paper everyday. He is a utter disgrace and why keep hurting people over and over again…for that is what you are doing every time you post his mug in the paper :/ I know the couple who was married by him the same day he jumped, I was there, I actually talked to the man. How do you think the couple feel now every time they see his face in the paper…and especially now that he may not even have been a legit marriage!
Your friends are legally married. Maine law says so.
But the people Carlson married (and I know several) while some will call victims are not the real victims here. Those victims are the children he was able to sexually assault because people that knew didn’t report like the therapist or saw and didn’t believe like the two Bangor police officers for example.
Who really cares at this point..his victims and their families?
Tell them to go do it over by a Justice of the Peace. There are some very nice people in Bangor the perform marriages and are very legal by the state.
It must go on in order to get some citizens to stop using the title he still carries in the media.
They’re legally married. Maine law says so. Town clerks got an interpretation of the law from the Secretary of State’s office and the Attorney General’s office, and they said even though Carlson may have been a fraud and not eligible under Maine law to perform ceremonies, the marriages are valid because those who got married believed in good faith that he was certified to perform the ceremony and the couple act and relate to each other in full faith that they are married.
For those of us whose marriages performed by this man did not end up happy, I wish we could use the penalty for fraud provision of the law as a reason to get out of the marriage — say that the marriage never happened (like an annulment) without having to go through a divorce proceeding. We’d sign a paper saying “the marriage was performed by a person who fraudulently represented himself, and because he is not alive to be penalized/fined for the activity, we solemnly believe — in lieu of his penalty — that the marriage was not valid.” Again, this is for those of us who have called clerks’ offices — and there have been quite a few — who are looking for easier ways to get out of bad marriages.
I, too, am appalled that Bob Carlson was able to bluff and fondle his way through his life. How could this happen, doesn’t anyone do background checks, especially the law enforcement agencies? However, I’ve seen his mug in the Bangor Daily News for way too long. If you must continue to publish speculations and heresay, please bury the articles without his picture!
This person mesmerized many people in LE and once that happened he was given carte-blanche to go about his business and sanctioned by those in power then and now. I will bet that there are other stories of ineptitude by bugger-bob that will never surface because of his privileged positions within LE.
just because the state legislators were incompetent and didn’t outline penalties for failure to report abuse, that’s no reason for the da to end investigations. it’s a public safety issue. the public has a right to know who these people are. they have positions of responsiblity and they’ve violated a trust. has something like this happened before? it could easily happen again.
Bangor is so corrupt I am surprised they don’t replace Paul Bunyan with a statue of Bob the Bugger of Bangor.
What else do you need to know about a “man of God” who advocates the murder of the unborn through abortion and homosexual “marriage,” and went around denouncing “homophobia?”
If you can’t see this is wrong, no wonder you were taken in!
“homophobia” lead to the murder of Charlie Howard and Matthew Shepard.
Why not join us in calling for a full investigation into why mandated reporters did not report what they knew or saw?
Why not join us in calling for the strengthening of the Mandated Reporting laws to include University and College professors, staff and officials?
Why not join us in calling for adding a penalty for not reporting as the law mandates?
I personally know Maybary , Ness and Bains. They did not intend to murder anyone in my opinion. It was a very big mistake. That being said no excuse for the gay bashing that went wrong . I would much rather see 2 gay people married than out having sexual relations with 100s of people or hiding in a straight marriage. It is by no means a perfect world. All these stats about gays being pedophiles is so misleading. I would what percentage of the general population had sex with someone underage when they were underage dose that make like half the people in this state pedophiles? Jd I am going to email Stacey Guerin (state rep) I was hoping I would run into her before now to talk about this issue. Not a partison issue by any means. Clear laws and enforcement for no reporting. I hope you contact your state rep as well. Enough public demand and they will have to do something.
I will do the same.
” … gay bashing that went wrong …” ?
Is there something right way to do that?
I was a very wrong thing to do what I mean is they did not intend on killing that man. If you ask me the boys got off very easy . Like less than 2 years.
There you go again.
If society is so deceived as think a man of God can advocate the murder of the unborn, or “marriage” between two men or two women, it will be deceived time and time again.
All the things you suggested are good ideas, but they do not address the root cause of the moral rot in Bangor — and that is the replacement of Bangor’s traditional Maine values — the values of the founders of our civilization — with the tommyrot of Freudianism, “tolerance” and “compassion.”
And yes, fear over the invented, nonsensical, psycho-babble accusation of “homophobia” gave Bob the Bugger of Bangor deep cover within the city’s liberal establishment.
So liberals can spare us their sanctimonious preaching about “homophobia” at this point.
Carlson was one homosexual people SHOULD have been afraid of.
Society should be afraid of homosexual pedophiles especially when they turn out like Gordon Northcott, John Wayne Gacy, or Juan Corona.
Society should be afraid of pedophiles but they should also be very afraid of…
They should be afraid of those that see them with young boys in dark parking lots and do nothing.
They should be afraid of therapists that know of a half dozen victims and do nothing.
They should be afraid of Deputy Sheriffa that see 8 & 9 year olds in a jails control room at 1 & 2 in the morning and do nothing.
The people we should fear are those that see evil and do nothing.
This is not about heterosexuals. This is not about homosexuals. This is not about bi-sexuals. This is about pedophiles and those that are charged with protecting our society and our children but failed miserably.
Society should be afraid of pedophiles — period. Being a homosexual no more equates with being a pedophile than being a heterosexual does. It is WRONG to declare otherwise and you are only spreading more hate in this world.
But then I must allow that you are simply ignorant and don’t know any better. I am, however, amazed that in the second of your rants that you, as a presumed Christian, have also listed among the three root causes “of the moral rot of Bangor” tolerance and compassion. My reading of the Gospels suggests that these qualities were very much embraced by Jesus.
Perhaps I’m the ignorant one and don’t understand what I read. Or perhaps you’re not really a Christian but rather a raving teeth-gnashing pagan.
I was ready to like your comment until you put down the Pagans. I believe they embrace compassion and tolerance also.
Fair enough — and I say this as someone probably more a pagan than a Christian myself — I was looking for shorthand for describing someone distinctly not embodying Christianity’s claimed values, which seems to include many members of the fundamentalist sects in particular. That was probably not very accurate of me because you’re absolutely right about many modern pagans. On the other hand, I can’t help recalling how the Druid priests of ancient Britain were wont to lock up their enemies in wicker cages and burn them alive — hardly an example of compassion and tolerance!
since when are tolerance and compassion wrong??
“Tolerance” and “compassion” become wrong when they are applied as ethical standards to justify conduct which is wrong.
“Tolerance” and “compassion” became wrong when they were used as a justification to cover up Bob the Bugger’s evil deeds because he was a homosexual.
They are wrong when they are used to explain and excuse the evil acts of homosexuality.
Carlson was a pedophile. He enjoyed sex with young boys and that is the textbook (medical and legal) definition of pedophilia.
Oh, of course, he wasn’t a homosexual at all…
He was a real man’s man….another Rocky Marciano or Joe Louis.
Hmmm I don’t believe Carlson was a boxer. Not sure but I don’t recall ever hearing that he was.
But it is pretty clear that he was a pedophile and several people in positions to do something about it and didn’t suspected he was too.
maybe Bob was advocating that we love one another, hate the sin but not the sinner (if you believe in sin).
I detest that “Hate the sin, but not the sinner” bs. It’s nothing more than a flimsy excuse that
right-winged bigoted christians use to justify their condemnation of another human. It’s like saying, “It’s okay to hate the freckles, but not the person sporting them.”
Most I have heard about, who continue this religion and kind of faith seem more like the brain washed of other religions. You have been taught and read so much you have been conditioned to believe all that you have been told. One is no different than another when it comes to how the members of each feel about certain things…….I for one could never continue with a religion who secretly hid and lied about every aspect of their exsistance. They seem to believe that money is going to justify every those action upon those children would make things right with them and God. It has been proven that good people hid things going on around them like at Penn State……..Goes on for decades and decades and still no one will ever grasp the true damage one deals with after an act of abuse has happened to them. God forbid that kind of thing was to happen to a child of a yours………So you can keep your religion and the hippacratic opinions to yourself and I’ll keep my child away for the Catholic church. God is everywhere,
for everyone not just for you closet people.
Debate? What debate? Everything this man ever “earned” was a fraud…be it degrees, positions, or trust. This happened because of the “good ol boys” network of the 70s where a badge AND a collar apparently allowed you to rape little boys. Anyone out there “debating” this is probably also debating whether or not the earth is round and if Jesus rode a dinosaur to school.
The man was a complete fraud!!! People, he molested CHILDREN!!!!! Anything and everything he did should be struck from all records!!!! Many, many people were duped by this man and no and I mean no good that he did out weighs the fact, HE MOLESTED CHILDREN!!!!!!!
Thanks for that patsfan4960…
But he did do good. as long as we only see the negative someone did, we will continue to ignore people who put on a good facade and are abusing others.
The evil he committed far outweighs any possible “good” he may have performed. And let’s take his “good” one step further…was the “good” he did really “good” or a means to further gain “respect” to gain access to more victims?
jesus didn’t ride a dinosaur to school?
No, silly. It was a Toyota. My pastor tole’ me dat and dat’s what I believe ’cause my pastor don’t lie.
beard, long hair? no, a harley
Was it a small red Toyota?
I think this story deserves one question. Why are we wasting so much time on him at the top and from of the paper when there are so many more important things we could be discussing? Like the positives!
But some people continue to use a title to describe this, this…………..aw forget it.
Hear ya! But doesn’t it show who the BDN works for? Think about it.
it is helping BDN to sell papers, that is why they keep talking about him
I was referring to the issue of insisting on using the title reverend which was not earned. The only thing he apparently was reverent about was little boys.
Praise Rev Carlson. Never question members of your clique. They weren’t deceived, they believed. And they all look down upon the common man, the worker bee. The only thing these people are concerned about now is if they can minimize their association with him. They don’t care about the kids, only themselves.
A classic case of those in power protecting one of their own. Once the cat is out of the bag everyone who help keep the bag closed gets burned.
BDN, please stop showing his picture. Everytime I see it I get angry and it makes me sick. He doesn’t deserve this attention. If you need a picture, how about you cover it with a black piece of paper. I’m tired of looking at his sketchy looks.
then don’t look. pretty simple. put a sticky note over his face.
I tried but then the screen jumps for an ad.
Rev. Carlson presided over my 3-year old daughters funeral in 2008. It makes me sick to think what he did…and that we allowed him into our house for counseling, and to share such a personal / traumatic moment with us.
why let it make you sick? He was able to help people in times of grief. I just wish this could have been what he was all the time instead of having a dark side.
You’re going through enough, losing your beloved child. Don’t let this make your experience even worse. Try to remember your baby girl before and after he entered your lives and hang onto the fact that in the end, your love for her triumphed over everything and always will.
I suspect this animals background had many false “backstops”
wonder if he was kicked out of the military; read in a prior article he had been in the USAF?
-His suspect degree is in question by those who issued it. On the whole, it’s probably fake or was done as a “favor”. Either way, this key document enabled him to move right up into positions of trust without any further checks.
– According to the state police report, for a long period of time, he was “tooling” around in a “special” Bangor Police car…..actually he was hunting for victims
Lessons Learned: If in doubt, report it! It could prevent a creep like this from causing many years and generations of damage.
The law enforcement agencies that simply took this guy at his word and never verified his credentials
are to be held acccountable. IMO, this lazy, irresponsible attitude on the part of authority is what allowed 9/11 to happen, and is what allows so much child abuse to continue to happen behind the sham of religion and education. Put your collar on backwards, say you are related to someone wealthy or
influential, and marry some gullible woman to give the appearance of normalcy, and off you go. Shame!
WHo really gives a hoot if he was a minister. He abused children, he is dead and thats a good thing.
I care that he was a minister. as an ordained minister myself, it brings disgrace on all of us. he was given the opportunity to be in a position to serve God and help others and he was a fake. I find that disgusting (of course, as well as abusing children).
Years ago information people put on their resumes wasn’t carefully checked into. It would have been inconvenient if not impossible to trace everything. I guess plenty of heads would roll today if employers started reviewing older resumes and discovered people “awarded” their own degrees. It makes you think. If people can do high level jobs without achieving the education that allegedly prepares them to do their work, what are colleges really preparing us to do? If the truth got out, colleges would have to a lot of ‘splainin’ to do.
I’d like to know which Bob Carlson said this:
“My best friend is GLBT and it’s ME” -Bob Carlson
Found in the Jan. 2001 Detroit PFLAG newsletter at http://www.pflagdetroit.org/Newsletters/012001NewsLetter.pdf
Could they be the same person???
Well if you read the description contained in the link you posted you would see they are two different people.
Now, where you intentionally posting misleading information?
That isn’t clear and point of this article is whether his ‘credentials’ are what he says they are, so when you cast doubts you make people wonder who this seemingly well respected, highly regarded, person really is? I didn’t know, so I asked the question. lighten up, he’s gone.
Well it was very clear to me that it was two different people.
It’s time to move on people…stop wasting tax payer money. The man is dead, proving his credentials is pointless now. Stop spending my money and let the healing begin.
Personally I am VERY sick of looking at his picture – as well as hearing about him. I don’t understand what the point is. He was a pig, yes. But he is dead. I UNDERSTAND that it will never be over for his victims, but what is the point of keeping it so close to the surface?
the only benefit is hopefully the Bangor area will learn what to do to stop someone like Carlson from ever being able to do the things he did and get away with what he did
Really? Do we have to wake up and see his disgusting mug on the cover of BDN? Letting a dead man still give people the creeps is awful. Let’s shred the picture of this pervert!
The State of Maine makes it very clear that as long as you did not seek out to defraud the State your marriage is legal.
Being called by a religious body to preach, teach etc.. is the licensing required by the State of Maine. In other words, if you were called to become a minister at a recognized religious body, you are then licensed by the State of Maine.
Does BDN really have to keep putting this perverts face in the paper every day? The name now congers up an image, so please don’t make us look at him anymore!
you would think that a REAL back ground check would of hapThink about it,if they had,maybe all this would of been avoided!pened either way.just cause he was a minister doesn’t exclude him from a check!!!Just think maybe if they had this tragity might of never of happened!!!!!!!!
Cover your tracks time…
http://www.onlinesentinel.com/news/chaplain-wasnt-banned-from-husson_2012-08-06.html
Done with speculation and second guesses this guy was a complete scumbag, pederast, pervert and whatever else you want to call him. I have not one inch in my body that cares for him or any of the people who protected his actions or helped alert him to the investigation. Every single person who did must be held accountable, and the persons who did made public. Right down to even the lowest cop on the totem pole or the president of Husson, to sheriff Glen Ross! All of these are equal to each other in the terms of scum
If anything they should be charged with hindering an investigation by the simple fact they let carlson know they were coming for him. children getting sexually abused by an adult is not like a speeding ticket or even an OUI. it impacts that child for the rest of their life and people who have never been sexually abused will/ could never even conceive the scope of the mental anguish and hurt that it has on them.. i was sexually abused as a child and in my opinion anyone who sexually abuses a child should get the death penalty no matter who they are or what status he/she may have in society.. sorry for the rant but this hits a nerve in me that raises my tempurature to max.
This Rev is dead stop destroying him. he can NOT defend himself he is dead!
No one is destroying anyone. He is under investigation and he brought that upon himself.
Yes Carlson is dead. Carlson deeds destroyed him and what he did is indefensible.
This is sounding more and more like the movie “Catch Me if You Can.” If he did any “GOOD DEEDS” is it really a good deed if he did them to merely satisfy is deluded ego? It’s not selfless, therefore it’s not a good deed. Maybe the only good deed he did was saving the taxpayers thousands of dollars in court and prison costs.
Rev. Bob Carlson officiated my wedding… Now I wonder if it was ever really legal????
Actually, keeping his picture on the front page may be a good thing, seeing it everyday makes people angry, and when folks get angry they are more likely to do something. Maybe it will help other victims come forwared about abuses and not just the victims of Carlson.
does anyone anticipate any kind of positive outcome from all this collective outrage or are we just spitting into the wind?
It’s time for another headline, what more can be said, the whole thing is sad in many ways but know just beating a dead horse, we all know that the facts or the true facts will never be in the open, because the man with the answers jumped to his death. We all can blame each other or someone we don’t even know but what good is it going to do.. Many things were done wrong from the day Ross was informed and thats where it all starts, Carlson would have never known of the investigation and the State Police could maybe got a few answers before I am sure the same outcome (The Jump) but we have to move on and I am sick of seeing his face on the front page. BDN if you are that hard up for news look arond and see the big picture…
Sorry trooper but I cannot agree with you that “Many things were done wrong from the day Ross was informed and thats where it all starts”…because that is not where the wrong things started.
They started when a therapist did not report the knowledge of “half a dozen” victims of Carlson.
They started when two Bangor police officers did not follow up on their suspicions after seeing Carlson with a young boy leaving the darkest part of a parking lot in the early morning hours.
They started when a Penobscot County Deputy Sheriff did not follow up on his suspicions after seeing Carlson with a 8-9 year old boy in the jails Control Room between 1 and 2 in the morning.
That’s “where it all” started…when good people do not do what society expects them to do and the law requires them to do and that “thing” was PROTECTING THE CHILDREN!
The guy obviously was just another fudge packer for christ, and people need to just accept it and move on. I myself am always suspicious of the holier than thou types, they always seem kind of sleazy to me.