If any apology should result from Rep. Paul Gilbert’s questions about whether Christopher Pierce’s membership in the Maine Army National Guard from 1971 to 1977 qualifies him to fill one of the two positions reserved for veterans on the Finance Authority of Maine board, Gilbert, D-Jay, should make it personally to Pierce.
Gilbert’s comments during a Sept. 4 legislative committee hearing on Pierce’s nomination sparked an uproar, with demands for apologies from Republican legislators and Maine Republican Party Chairman Charlie Webster. The controversy even spilled into the U.S. Senate race with Republican candidate Charlie Summers demanding that Democrat Cynthia Dill denounce Gilbert’s statements.
There are many definitions of “veteran.” Federal law spells out a specific definition as it relates to hiring practices. Maine civil service law does, too. The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs establishes definitions as they relate to benefits eligibility. Membership organizations such as the American Legion and Veterans of Foreign Wars adhere to criteria specific to their charters.
State law related to FAME board membership simply defines “v eteran” as “any person who has served in the U.S. Armed Forces and was not dishonorably discharged.” It makes no mention of meeting VA standards, as Gilbert suggests should apply, and does not differentiate between National Guard service versus any other branch of the military.
Pierce wasn’t seeking preferential treatment or attempting to benefit from status as a veteran, and the confirmation hearing was not a proper forum to debate fine points of who can be called a veteran. Using Pierce’s FAME board nomination to quibble over the difference between active duty and reserve service unfairly placed the Cumberland resident in the middle of a conflict that shouldn’t involve him.
Likewise, Republicans trying to gain political points from the brouhaha should cease. Military records don’t list political affiliations, and respect for veterans is not a partisan issue. Trying to make it one — as Summers did with his call for Dill to repudiate Gilbert — seems manipulative.
William “Chick” Ciciotte, a Vietnam-era veteran and American Legion member from Topsham who has organized recognitions for more than 500 Maine veterans, stripped politics from the “who’s a veteran?” question with his simple and direct answer: “ When they put the uniform on, they are subject to call and put their lives on the line.”
Respect for the men and women who served honorably in the U.S. armed forces should be bipartisan and apolitical. Public wrangling over who gets to claim the title “veteran” serves no valid purpose.
A National Guardsman may – or may not be – a member of the United State Armed Forces. It all depend upon that person’s ‘Title 10 Status’
Under Title 10, USC, authority is granted to the Federal Government to mobilize and deploy National Guard units and personnel; at this time, they fall under the command and control of the Commander in Chief (President) and the Armed Forces of the United States – and are considered in ‘Title 10 Status’
Normally National Guard Troops are NOT in Title 10 Status, but rather under the Command of the Governor of the State and the Adjutant General. They are considered to be the State Militia, and are not part of the United States Armed Forces.
See the following Legal Primer “The Role of the National Guard in National Defense and Homeland Security” –
http://www.ngaus.org/ngaus/files/ccLibraryFiles/Filename/000000000457/primer%20fin.pdf
I agree. Not sure why FAME requires two veterans on the board, but that implies that the board’s mission and purpose require a veteran’s insight or experience. If that is the case, then the requirement should be for a veteran with active duty experience, whether in one of Federal military services or as a National Guard who served on active duty. Again, presupposing that FAME wants a veteran in order to leverage experience unique to a vet, i.e., military family, career transition, or PTSD/medical issues, then a National Guard member who never served Title 10 active duty should not qualify.
Your reason for the 2 veteran seats on the board makes sense, until you read the FAME definition of veteran. If the reason for 2 vets was for active duty experience on the board, the board would not be using a definition of veteran that didn’t require active duty experience.
Hate to say this, but the board’s reason may be to give it some sort of legitimacy–invite two vets, typically a group respected by the public, and you increase your group’s standing in they eyes of the citizenry. What other reason could there be?
I’ll wager that when FAME was formed in law, someone wanted to be sure that their guy (I do mean guy not gal) would be placed on the board. That guy happened to be a veteran. So, the field of candidates was narrowed to ensure a certain candidate was chosen.
Some legislator wouldn’t vote for the bill unless that veteran qualifier was in there. The fact that the definition of ‘veteran’ included reserve service suggests that, if I’m right, the FAME board intentionally included a specific National Guard or reserve service candidate.
Sorry, seamus – but you evidently did not read FAME’s definition of a ‘Veteran’
“§963§964Title 10: COMMERCE AND TRADE
Part 2: BUILDING AND DEVELOPMENT
Chapter 110: FINANCE AUTHORITY OF MAINE
Subchapter 1: FINANCE AUTHORITY OF MAINE ACT
§963-A. Definitions51. Veteran. “Veteran” means any person who served in the United States Armed Forces and was not dishonorably discharged.”
When one serves in the United States Armed Forces they are under Title 10, USC (United States Code)
National Guardsmen are under the Command of the Governors of the individual states of which they serve, and not the Federal Government. They do not attain Title 10 Status (Service in the Armed Forces of the United States) unless they are activated for service by the Federal Government.
Again, I direct your attention to http://www.ngaus.org/ngaus/files/ccLibraryFiles/Filename/000000000457/primer%20fin.pdf
It’s a FAME board, so the FAME definition applies. Therefore, Pierce should be on the board. Most everything else is cheap political grandstanding However, can somone explain why 2 veterans are required to be on the board in the first place?
Much ado about not much. Gilbert’s was a silly distinction that deserves nothing more than derision.
It’s the silly season, when Dems are out of power in Augusta, and very fearful, for good reason, of losing power in DC.
Society in general, is less aware of Veterans than maybe 3 or 4 decades ago. I have overheard conversation by people wondering why veterans should get any special consideration. Being a Vietnam Veteran, I do not mention it, unless I am sure I might be talking to another vet. There is a lot to the vet story, I remember in the very early 70’s, when I mustered out, the VFW halls were about all WWII vets, and Vietnam Vets were not particularly welcome, I did not join. They came up with the AMvets for Vietnam vets. I was not in Vietnam, but on a Carrier off Vietnam, a WestPac cruise, or the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club, those F4 Phantoms and Corsairs raised hell, but I feel the Army National Guard of Maine, he is just as much of a vet as I or a combat vet actually in Vietnam, I like the statement, if ya have the uniform on, and subject to call, you are a vet.
LOL
If that is the case, then Dick Cheney, Bill Clinton,
and Mitt Romney could be considered veterans in waiting, because if they had
been called, and their student deferments revoked, they too would have gladly
served…LOL
Well, maybe Bill and Mitt might have continued to press
for conscientious objector status, but certainly Dick would have suited
up…..LOL
Life is unfair. Different veterans get different levels
of service and care. The guys who really deserve the most service and care are
the ones in the body bags that we pick up off the field of battle, but not much
can be done for them. No small business incentive is going to do them any
good!
I THINK WARS MAKE PEOPLE SICK, and societies that
practice war (which is all of them) are immoral in some way, as they send
certain people out to die so that other wealthy politicians and well heeled
businessman make money off the dead peoples’ souls.
Admittedly, I have PTSD, so you will understand that
when I hear this argument going on, it reminds me of members of the Roman
Catholic Church debating how many angels can fit on to the head of a
pin.
PEACE BE WITH US, and wishing for an end to this
endless war in the middle east, even if it means we’re bankrupt and cannot
afford another aircraft carrier. Roger in Danforth, Maine
You are right. I still got people who will not speak cause I came out against the Iraq invasion, after Vietnam, these little wars make no sense, Bush’s Iraq War has cost this country about everything, we live on credit, how can a country be powerful, living on credit and buying it’s ammo from China, politicians (YUCK),we should impeach everyone in congress now and start all fresh.
Dear PattenPond…Thanks much for your service, no matter where or what, as us veterans all appreciate it.
Even though war upsets me, I am very proud of police, firefighters, veterans, and medical staff that put their lives on the line to help us all, no matter who we are, or what our politics, or laws we have broken or enforced.
Certain ideas have come in to my head the past four years, and that is that I can’t tell the difference between George Bush’s war policy, and that of Lyndon Baines Johnson. And not to be mean or racist, but except for the color of their skin, or their political party, I can’t tell the difference between Nixon’s war policy, or that of Barack Obama.
I say that with a laugh, but it is also a painful laugh, with a desire to cry at times (which I do).
I’m glad you’re alive, kicking, expressing your feelings, and I think those feelings you talk about are the result of any war. A lot of people get very angry, hurt about certain subjects, and eventually have a hard time talking to each other.
I purposely enlisted in the US Army Quartermaster Corps, just before Woodstock, to avoid the infantry and having to lose a leg to a mine, and of course, I think I wanted to be a patriotic American like my veterans WW II parents, but I didn’t really have a desire to kill anyone at all.
I did two tours, and due to some emotional vulnerability and the unfairness of life, I not only survived the war intact in my body, but came out with some emotional scars.
I AM VERY HAPPY THAT YOU ARE ALIVE TO WRITE ABOUT YOURSELF, and sincerely suggest you live to a very long age to share you feelings with others. Roger Stavitz in Danforth, Maine.
I served 6 years in the Guard. I never stand or raise my hand when an announcer asks if any veterans are present. I just think that I received more from my country for serving than I sacrificed . I got a nice bonus, never had to go overseas, and got some nice new boots.
I agree. I chose to join the guard so as to avoid active service; were I activated I would have served, and I would have been a veteran. Unless a national guardsmens is activated by the department of defense for at least 180 days he simply is not a veteran and to claim otherwise deminishes the service of true active service solders.
Just like there is nothing that can be done legally about people who lie about earnig war medals.
Interesting that while the Maine Legislature is up in arms re. this issue, nowhere is it mentioned that our illustrious governor spent the ‘Nam years in New Brunswick. I wonder what definition the Legislature would give to him?
He was subject to the draft lottery in December 1969 and his birthday received number 342. His draft eligiblity ended in 1970. He did not move to Canada until the end of 1971.
Really LiarPage was born in 1948 would have been subject to the draft in ’66, 67, 68, 69 and yet he did not get a draft notice and take a physical?????????????? Somebody was pulling the strings for a dolt that could not take tests in English, so they had to be administered in French. Perhaps being an ignoramus Paul could not have passed the mental, or written tests of the selective service, I find that more plausible. When I served in the military everyone spoke English……….. yes even the Mexican’s, Puerto Rican’s, African American’s, and Asian’s sorry Mann Coulter there were no Canadians in Nam. LMAO!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmcZG87Fmxc
But why let facts get in the way of a good lie.
Ever hear of the student deferment? 1966 was out, he was in high school. He was attending Husson from 67-71. Nice rant though. Yes indeed, you don’t let the facts get in your way.
I know what definition I give him: Jody.
“No purpose?” au contraire mon
frere. Indeed there is a huge purpose. The D’s are simply resorting to their
predictable playbook during the silly season. During election time, they love
the military. Once in office, they give lip service while undermining &
undercutting the very people who put their lives on the line to give us all
precious freedom. Witness the figurative pretzels that these D’s twist
themselves in to split hairs simply to make a political point. National Guard
units are mobilized. Some serve full time anyway. Most recently, 10’s of thousands were sent to Iraq & Afghanistan. Some from this very
area. Yes, the D’s love the military around election time. Today is the
September 11 anniversary & it reminds me to ask, where did all the
“anti-war” protesters who gathered every Tuesday thereafter to
protest the Bush wars, go? Talk about pure despicable politics. OVER 70% OF ALL U.S.
MILITARY DEATHS IN AFGHANISTAN
HAVE OCCURRED UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA. This guy wants to compare DD214s? This
hypocritical armchair warrior stuff is beyond sickening.
When The Guard is ‘Activated’ – they then become United States Armed Forces.
It does matter.
Non sequitur. What is your meaningless point? Don’t bother
telling me. Tell the families of 480 National Guard Troops who’ve died in Iraq & Afghanistan what it is & that
they aren’t “real” soldiers. You’re
dismissed.
You, RJ – are the one spinning it. The Guard members who died in Iraq and Afghanistan were officially part of the U.S. Armed Forces according to Title 10 USC when they were activated – and no longer subject to the orders of their State Governors.
Didn’t you have any training in the UCMJ or military status when you were ‘in uniform?’ Or did you choose not to take part…..
Your ignorance is no excuse for your arrogance.
But the “R’s ” love to cut funding for Veteran’s services. It goes both ways.
Oh sure, love me while I am fighting, but when I return with scars, either mental,physical, or both, just toss me aside. I am lucky, I have none of the latter and only small ones of the former, but I stand by my point.
Too much censorship from BDN on this, seems the Republican spin machine is in full force on this and I ? why.