A military base in or near the city of Caribou could be the nation’s last line of defense against ballistic missile threats from around the world if the findings of a study by the National Academy of Sciences ever come to fruition.
The National Research Council, a branch of the National Academy that includes scientists, engineers and high-level military experts, concluded in a 260-page report released Tuesday that there are troubling and potentially disastrous holes in the U.S. missile defense system, including in the northeastern part of the country. It identified Fort Drum or Rome, N.Y., or the Aroostook County city of Caribou as ideal sites for facilities designed to intercept long-range missiles from hostile countries such as North Korea or Iran as they approach targets in the United States. The strategy would replace efforts by the Obama administration to center the system in Europe and over the oceans.
The defense vulnerability of the northeastern United States is an issue that has long been debated in Maine, particularly during past deliberations about whether to close military facilities here.
Loring Air Force Base in Limestone, a Strategic Air Command base with a mission of defending the United States against the Soviet Union, was closed in 1994. Limestone and Caribou are neighboring communities.
In 2005, the Department of Defense opted to close Brunswick Naval Air Station in midcoast Maine, which was seen by some as a Cold War-era facility that housed squadrons of P-3 Orion reconnaissance aircraft. BNAS closed officially last year when the squadrons completed their move to Jacksonville, Fla.
Decommissioned Air Force over-the-horizon backscatter radar sites, which aimed to detect Soviet bombers attacking the U.S. by coming across the northern polar regions, are located in remote eastern and western Maine. One near Columbia Falls in Washington County is being eyed by the Passamaquoddy Tribe for a wind farm. Last year, a former radar site in Moscow was sold to a Portland-based real estate firm for $730,000.
Sen. Susan Collins, ranking Republican on the Homeland Security Committee and member of the Senate Armed Services Committee — in addition to being a Caribou native — said in a written statement Tuesday evening that her concern that the eastern United States is adequately protected is nothing new.
“Nearly 60 percent of the U.S. population lives east of the Mississippi River,” said Kevin Kelley, a spokesman for Collins. “Senator Collins has long been concerned that this region of our country be equally protected against ballistic missiles.”
Kelley said Collins sees the merits and flexibility of the mostly sea-based approach favored by Obama but fears, in particular, advanced long-range missile technology thought to be under development in Iran.
“[The report] should serve as a warning that the administration needs to reassess its defenses,” reads the statement from Collins, who said she will urge the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee to hold a hearing to evaluate the panel’s conclusions and recommendations.
The National Research Council’s exhaustive report, “Making Sense of Ballistic Missile Defense: An Assessment of Concepts and Systems for U.S. Boost-Phase Missile Defense in Comparison to Other Alternatives,” focuses on the science and engineering behind an effective missile-defense system capable of protecting against missiles in all phases of flight. It does not address policy issues around missile defense, including its effect on U.S. military and foreign policy.
The highly technical report questions whether a current system that emphasizes intercepting missiles from countries such as Iran and North Korea soon after they are launched is effective enough when paired with existing systems designed to shoot down the missiles near the end of their trajectories. One recommendation among several is the installation of new missile-interceptor equipment in the northeastern United States that is capable of using existing radar technology.
Let me get this straight.
The National Academy of Sciences thinks we should spend 10 or 20 billion dollars (or maybe 50 billion, who knows?) on a anti-missile system in Caribou in case the North Koreans decide to attack Bangor or something.
Personally, I think there’s better ways to spend that money.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Relative to corporate welfare and their own job security….
… “the National Academy that includes scientists, engineers and high-level military experts, … identified Fort Drum , Rome, N.Y., or the Aroostook County town of Caribou as ideal sites for facilities designed to intercept long-range missiles from hostile countries such as North Korea or Iran ……. (which do not have long-range missiles ) ……. as they approach targets in the United States.”
Which do not CURRENTLY but are working on long-range ballistic missiles never mind developing weapons grade enriched uranium.
Great point.
But why doesn’t that same FORWARD looking thinking apply equally well here:
BDN; Maine budget cuts mean fewer child care options, jobs
BANGOR, Maine — Head Start and child care providers across Maine can accommodate fewer students and have less staff compared with a year ago because … too ?
Those programs are great, but would they matter under a mushroom cloud? NEVER underestimate those that hate us…..That led to WWII!
These programs will matter all that much more unless if some other conservative, no compromise, American exceptionalist , warmongering nut case listens to his ‘higher father” and starts WWIII ….. that he can’t finish, too.
Barring that these four years will grow up… and without early learning skills .
They might well end up just as dumb and paranoid those who think you can cut taxes, pay down the deficit and play star war games.
Bit of a slurred reply from you :), but I will try to respond to a couple of your remarks.
Kid’s are the parent’s responsibility(don’t breed em if you can’t feed em).These empty nesters did just that and now are spending big bucks on our rescue cats cause we adopted them and are now OUR problem. You can have all the feel good programs in the world, but from a fall out shelter? NEVER underestimate those that hate us(and they are numerous). ‘Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it’ ring a bell? Today, we have a whole different kind of people and ways that to do us harm, and do. It ain’t cheap, but Homeland Security has prevented another 9/11 so far….(Yesterday’s killing of our Ambassador to Libya was beyond their control.)
In spite of your ill founded judgemental personal slur, given how you expressed an outstanding lack of humanity, understanding, and compassion toward towards both people and animals, I’ll ask, why do you, or perhaps, do you, really , care about protecting anything , beside pork barrel …. get some …. spending ?
Then I must point out that while presented with a straight face, this new hysterical fear of non-existent WMDs is a history repeating itself, already, isn’t it ?
So are the Iranian WMDs that you fear so much, the very same ones, still kicking around ?
I’m going to assume you’re still on a slurring run (meant as one under the influence). Come back (or not) when you get better reading comprehension. You don’t sound like your usual self to me. What you seemingly mistook for a personal slur, with a smiley emoticon yet, proves that you are showing a lack of said comprehension. Your last 2 replies to me are a bit hard to figure out for this numb-nut….. :)
Yes, anyone could understand your cheap personal attack, :), and it still is as cheap and wrong today as it was last night
My point, now, was to not let your cheap, wrong headed, bully-boy, two faced, faux apologetic, personal and political lies go unchallenged,
just because as you must have come to expect it … you’re being so used to everyone saying to you, “Yeah, sure, whateveryou say, Escapee. ”
Real respect is earned, and not people just lying back to to you, to stop you from further embarrassing yourself .
Sometimes real respect includes mirroring back how you treat others.
Its measure will depend on how you express your usual self and if you arrogantly, perhaps, compulsively, continue to compound your own disrespectful ways toward others, should anyone dare confront your lies . :)
How ya doin’, so far?
lol
Now that was a little more decipherable (but still doesn’t sound quit like Mitt)! Sorry you don’t understand me whatsoever. Sad.
I do have to say that you are still sooo far off the mark as to be answered only by ‘TILT!’.
Too bad, really…… :(
END FIN NYET LALA OVER FINATO whatever….
So are retracting your insulting lies, or not ?
Your posts are not so clear as to make you the only judge.
The END,? Opps, YOU’RE WRONG, AGAIN.
Sometimes real respect includes mirroring back how you treat others.
Its measure will depend on how you express your usual self and if you arrogantly, perhaps, compulsively, continue to compound your own disrespectful ways toward others, should anyone dare confront your lies . :)
How ya doin’, so far? lol
You are still out of character, Mitt. I will just repeat myself with a little more emphasis
You have me sooo wrong and I DID SAY OVER AND OUT! I mean it until I happen to read the old Mitt.
Your replys to escsapee are off the wall. May you get better
Give it up escapee just wave as yo go by
Your edit has made your comment much more coherant. Thanks
YUO’ER WCLEMOE.
Cutting those programs “is” forward thinking. Why should we pay for every aspect of your children’s lives? It’s time for people to do a little “forward thinking” of their own, and if you can’t afford to pay for a child for 20 years then don’t reproduce.
We pay for the children’s education. Feeding, clothing, and teaching them some manners should be the parent’s responsibility instead of fully expecting us to raise your child, when you knew you couldn’t afford it in the first place.
There is no personal responsibility left in this country. Stop having children for the novelty of it.
Pretty short sighted of you.
No, it would not be because some nutjob would attack BGR. It would be to intercept missles coming over the polar region, northern remote Canada, etc., headed for targets within the CONUS.
And I think it would be a damn fine idea.
Think jobs, jobs, jobs.
Never should have decommissioned the OTH Backscatter sites or Loring AFB….dumb.
I agree wholeheartedly. Loring should have been downgraded, but never closed.
It probably could have survived if Cohen and Mitchell hadn’t been on their ways out. Despite outward appearances and all the sales literature, BRACs are hardly apolitical.
Money should be spent on defense against the more realistic invasion threat by Canadian Sasquatch, zombies, and/or the ever present aliens who may be attempting to re-abduct our soon to be senior Senator from the County.
I will confess that Canadian Sasquatch does pose a threat – especially Zombie Canadian Sasquatch … but there are still real nations out there that have missile technology (stolen/bought) and they do not like the US that much. The defenses would not be there for the state of Maine exclusively, but to protect our entire Eastern Seaboard. Now aliens (legal or illegal) who are looking to abduct someone will be more difficult to intercept. Look at how many are running around unchecked already. Oh – wait – you mean space aliens – They are definitely in the illegal category.
I have to agree 100% with your last sentence, typical Government thinking, no common sense. Decommission our protection system and then years later decide that it wasn’t such a good idea.
I hauled cement to the Moscow site when it was being built.
Not jobs for us. Just for the bureaucrats and defense contractors.
Who do you think is going to build these sites? Bureaucrats and defense contractors? No, the local labor force will, hence jobs.
Maybe the locals might get to pour some concrete, but the majority of the work and dollars will go to the defense contractors and the bureaucrates who interface with them.
I used to work in contracting for a major defense contractor. This is not a clean business and providing jobs to locals is not one of their goals.
Let’s face it, there aren’t many people up there to build. Are people going to relocate to build this, or are they going to hire Canadians and save money on employee overhead costs, such as health insurance, like the logging companies?
excuse me, there are many people up here. There is another Maine you know. We work hard and live pretty simple. Loring should never have been closed at all.
I have to assume you didn’t live in the PI and Caribou area when Loring was fully active. The flyboys contributed SO much to the local economy! It wasn’t like putting up a ‘build it and forget it’ windmill farm.
Think debt, debt, debt.
And where does that come from?
You, you, you.
Personally, I’m not at all worried about being attacked. Don’t you think if somebody was stupid enough to launch a missile strike against us, we would just obliterate them off the face of the earth? And then what would they have gained? If you’re dead, you’ve gained nothing.
Save the money for something worthwhile.
Since we don’t seem to be concerned with the national(China) debt at present, we need to have foresite that 1) Russia under Putin is again an uncertain loose cannon, 2) Iran certainly is, and increasingly so, 3) China and the Japan Sea controversy along with their impending complete take over of Taiwan are all concerns ( don’t forget that their next president is suddenly missing). 4)North Korea has the proven nuclear capability, but it won’t take more than a generation(20 yrs?) to make a rocket that works.
Remember the downtrodden defeated Germany of the 20’s and 30’s? No worries!Don’t be a Chamberlain and say “peace is at hand”. No Monday morning quarterbacking need apply with the rest of the world. Other people don’t have our way of thinking. Not even our allies; just look at the French! As Reagan said, “Trust, but verify”. Having our proud heads in the sand led to 9-11!
Good points
Oh so true Sir. What is also so interesting, if everyone can stop with the Project Screaming Chicken, is that FACT, not theory, that the majority of the supposed missile defense system’s are already in existence and have, in fact, already been seen as so effective that the Russian’s are screaming. That alone tells me that this system is taken seriously.
Strategic Missile Defense is a fact. That fact is seen in Alaska at Elmendorf with the 1st Strategic Missile Defence Wing with both their radar’s and their ‘alert’ missile’s on 24/7 stand-to status. The Air Force even went so far, back in the Reagen day’s, as to have an entire squadron trained for Anti-Satellite Interception with F-15’s and modified Standard missile’s. And we aren’t the only one’s to see the need for strategic missile defense. The Pole’s, before DC caved in to Putin, were on track to recieve a very advanced radar intended to track and provide intercept guidance of Iran’s missile’s when, not if, they were ever launched. That technology is fact and exist’s. If it can be used in Poland then there is no reason why it can’t be used in Northern Maine for the same purpose. If the Russian’s don’t like it, hey Putin, GET OVER IT ! The Iranian’s are a threat to everyone, both the U.S. and Russia alike. It’s high time that the Russian’s realized it as well. If they don’t then it’s their butt and we don’t owe them anything. Same for the North Korean’s and the Chinese. The Japanese, and even the South Korean’s, both have a history of knowing that not everyone that want’s to be your ‘friend’ is your friend. They both have missile defense system’s. And since the NK’s have been playing ‘Let’s test a missile’ so frequently, the Japanese have made it VERY clear that any missile going over Japan, or coming down anywhere near Japan, is going to trigger a Japanese Air Defense response. The South Korean’s are even far less restrained given their geography.
It’s time that the old SALT Agreement’s’ were hauled out and seen for what they are, obsolete and dangerous for all. Technology and politics have made the need for both a serious review of just what makes up Strategic Missile Defense AND a sound, working, Foreign Policy that is based on fact, not political bullying and threat’s negotiated and put into effect. Putin and the Soviet’s Central Committee need to get a serious grip on reality and quit living back in the 50’s. They don’t and the next time that the Chechin’s get ‘cranky’ you can bet that the Iranian’s are gonna be more than willing to give them the mean’s to ‘scratch’ that ‘itch’. That’s when Putin is gonna find out just how important Strategic Missile Defense is. And he’s gonna find it out with literally zero reaction or decision time. And once Iran start’s, is it really so hard to see where everyone else is gonna want to jump on that wagon and have a ‘go’ at us and Europe ? Chamberlain’s ghost is far more real than most realize. And he’s just as dangerous now as he was alive in 1938.
Thank you so much for such an eloquent expression of my thoughts EXACTLY. I wish that I had to typing skills and coherent train of thought that you possess!
Reagan’s outspending Russia along with his refusal to Gorbachev’s request to stop the star wars project scared the pants off the Ruskies and ended with the demise of the universally hated Wall, including exposing their true vunerability (today’s Putin notwithstanding). Thanks again and I hope there are more students of history, reality, and common sense of today’s convoluted and complicated world situation.
Oh ya, you forgot Iran and Israel.Talk about a time bomb with a country with a history of doing what has to be done all on their own. I could go on for days, but my aforementioned faults are coming into play! :) :)
Hate to let facts get in the way of a good old fashioned rant, but there is no such unit as the “1st Strategic Missile Defense Wing.” The 100th Missile Defense Brigade operates the ground-based interceptors stationed at Ft Greeley, AK. As for the supposed “effectiveness” of our GBIs, dont kid yourself, the Russians arguements have nothing to do with our ability to negate their strategic rocket forces. It is all about politics and regional power. The Russians already have the technology to negate our ability to intercept their warheads–decoys, manuverable RVs, chaff, etc. We have 0% shot at hitting a Russian ICBM.
An eastern GBI field would make intercept of Iranian ICBMs much easier/timely just based on geography. We dont need to put any sensors/radars in Maine because the radars at Fylingdales UK and Thule GN are already upgraded for MD engagement support and can detect an Iranian missile no matter which path it takes to CONUS. Whether or not we could actually hit an Iranian ICBM in midcourse is another question. The land-based Aegis systems scheduled for installation in Europe will provide proven capabilty against short and medium range threats but not against ICBM class (yet).
Where we really fall short is in maritime warning and coastal defenses. Much easier for Iran to load some short and medium range missiles on a cargo ship (i.e., SCUD in a Tub) sail off the US coast in international waters and launch at will.
Of course the problem with missile defense is that it is much easier/cheaper to overwhelm defenses with numbers and attrition. Israel spends billions on systems designed to shoot down short range rockets. Their interceptors run in the millions each and they have only a few systems to protect Tel Aviv and other cities. Sure it makes their citizens feel good to see the sytems work vs random, one or two rocket launches but no way will it last long if/when Hezbollah, Syria, and Iran unleash their full capability. Iran can carpet bomb Israel with missiles if it wanted to.
All well put. Buckley?
11 years in Colo Springs–Schriever, Pete, Cheyenne Mtn
3 yrs there…hope you’re okay after the fires. Minot and Vandy before that.
No worries, I live on the east side of the Springs, far away from the fires. When were u at Minot? I was in the 91st Missile Wing 94-98.
98-03, crew then mnx. We know a lot of the same people, I think.
LOL, small world.
True enough…bully.
LOL, my wife has a bully stick — she was the Wing CC exec for a while.
Still have mine, too.
Or possibly Egypt will load missles onto one of the German submarines they want to buy when we give them a billion dollar loan and forgive the last Billion we loaned them.
This is a bone for Russia to put pressure on Iran and that is all. Did you note how it would be an alternative to a European based anti-missle defense site? Russia is very upset about having such a US site in Europe. This is the carrot to muster support from Russia against Iran, nothing more.
Since I don’t have enough info on this particular item, I’ll defer and not speak directly about it to you.
Russia is very upset? Good! When weren’t they?
I will say that, for reasons known only to them, China and Russia have consistently blocked all the West’s efforts to deal with Iran, and more importantly, the immediate problem of Syria! The world’s mess-ups are more complicated than just a base here or there. A tangent of minutia, a speck on the wall in the greater scheme of today’s world….. :)
Yes of course, Syria too.
Here is an interesting story. No coincidence I’m sure. Go down to paragraph 9 if you don’t want to read all of it.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20120912/DA18BQB81.html
Thanks for the link, George. I didn’t have to count the paragraphs as the whole thing was very good.
Sadly, I’m a bit of a wonk for this stuff (happy to see that you might be also) and I wish that all voters were as informed about the intricacies of today’s world the world . For a born and bred County pulp cutter, I take a bit of pride in saying that every couple of years I go on a volunteer archeological dig in Lebanon, Israel, Egypt environs. I certainly don’t brag about it (I hope), but it’s just so much fun to spend a couple of months getting to know the locals and their concerns. France (have they ever really mattered?) and the Iberian Peninsula has wonderful people (but no better than the ones in a dusty village near Aswan Dam). I’ve bragged long enough, so I’ll shut up now, but it seems we’re on the same page about world politics… :)
I’m so very envious of your travels. Gosh I love to see new places. Sadly I’ve never been off our continent but perhaps someday I will.
The subtleties of international relationships have always been a curiosity to me I think. My interest first piqued because I’m a natural skeptic of what gets said vs what actually takes place. So my interest lies in finding the truth. However beyond that it is an education, socially and culturally. I like that part also. The down side is that I often form opinions which, to the casual observer, seem very out of place when compared to the media’s version of events. Oh well.
Gosh, Egypt, Lebanon, Israel, and southern Europe too! Please consider hiring me to carry your luggage.
So………..why have we not obliterated the taliban ? 11 years later and Obama wants to back out completely.
Good questions! Unfortunately, we don’t do the old warfare anymore. We’re now fighting an idea and not a real entity. The enemy now pops up all over the world and our first real experience with a homeland attack was perpetrated by a very small group. Like fighting bedbugs, we are in an unending war that is like playing ‘Whack-A-Mole. With Germany, we had an all or nothing war that followed the Geneva Convention rules of war. It don’t woik like that no mo. This gets me going and have been mouthy enough, so I won’t get involved with Obama’s peace plan now! Tanx for giving me the opportunity to sound off(again!). :)
Maybe because they’re so scattered about.
It’s not like they’re all living in the same town.
They don’t wear uniforms so they’re a little harder to pick out.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for obliterating each and every one of them and only wish I could pull the trigger on at least one of them.
Subject: [bdn] Re: Northern Maine base could deter missiles, National Academy says
Like your style
I think if we suffered a limited, asymmetrical nuclear attack, we–esp a D in the White House–would have a hard time retaliating with a massive response. Would Obama obliterate NK and irradiate the eastern Pacific because part of Seattle has been destroyed?
It’s a different world now. A President who launches a nuclear attack today has to worry about international opinion and mid-term elections.
would any president? stop with the crap that a D in the white house would react any differently than an R ,, it makes you look foolish
I think there are plenty of posters here who think W would, esp thinking Cheney’s hand was up his back. And, yes, my opinion is that a D would have a harder time employing nuclear weapons in a limited scenario than would an R. I hope neither ever has to consider it.
FDR or Truman might’ve, but today’s D’s are different, and more specifically, our present community organizer probably wouldn’t.
Damn, this article has got me going! I’d better sign off now……..
Edit: Removed parenthesis for clarification.
Plus, “irradiate the eastern Pacific” is a bit much. The two (admittedly much smaller) bombs didn’t irradiate the entire main island of Japan, and they’ve been back living in those bomb areas for years.
I believe (hope?) that any responsible President would do what’s necessary, whatever the situation calls for.
So we just let them bomb us and turn the other cheek? That seems the way things go today. Look at Somalia, Blackhawk Down. We didn’t do squat.
Certainly we could retaliate using conventional weapons, we have more than enough and if we run out, we’ll just make more. That’s just the problem. We have to worry about “politics” instead of doing what is right. We’ve become a bunch of pussies. Let’s see what kind of retaliation we take for the killing of our ambassador to Libya. “Oh, you better not do that again, or else”.
Subject: [bdn] Re: Northern Maine base could deter missiles, National Academy says
I’m not sure most people are even AWARE of what happened in Mogadishu. :/
Of course they don’t! Does it affect Maine? Then the people here dont wannwa no.
I think any civilian leader, R or D, would not be able to stop the parasitic yahoos of the military industrial complex, along with our religious fundamentalists, who live to hasten the end of the world, from a full scale retaliation, ill conceived or otherwise.
It would be directed against someone, even the wrong, targets, like with the case of GW Bush, … even if restraint were the right way to treat some theoretical pre-emptive attack against the US, for an ironically improbable twist on the American exceptationalist mindset, so just as likely a false flag provocation, as any other reasonable scenario.
So it goes.
Still off the wall
____-
Beware the of military industrial complex is wisest A GOP POTUS HAS EVER SAID.
I think they should have kept a big enough piece of a large base like Loring – just in case. It’s got a great runway, roads, utilities and so on. Seems like that works much better than buying a piece of land from Roxanne or somebody.
Agree on Loring, disagree on OTH. Satellites could ( and have) easily replaced OTH.
Loring’s geographic location (closest to Europe) makes it there fact jumping off point for a million things. Closing it was stupid.
Phantom – you are arguing here for the creation of an unnecessary missile base that would protect us from non-existent missiles in order to create jobs? I assume then that I won’t see you complaining about government waste elsewhere.
Non existent missiles? Ever heard of North Korea, Iran? And, if you think that Russia or China have suddenly become our “pals” you are completely wrong.
I have. And neither of them have missiles capable of reaching the East Coast of the United States.
Agreed. The OTHB was so good that it could “see” the drug smugglers airplanes taking off from the airports in South America. It made tracking them extremely easy so naturally it had to be decommissioned. Can’t interfere with the drug trade. Even now, our (alleged) govt. supplied them with guns to use against law enforcement.
Take note of the fact that the USAF OTH-B radars were used for counter drug interdiction for some years before being: 1. decommissioned or 2. placed in “warm storage”.
The Maine OTH-B site continued to operate in conjunction with US Customs C3I East, JTF4, SoCom, and SoCom Panama, until being placed in “warm storage”.
I work with the former USAF site activation program manager for the Maine OTHB sites. He says the real reason the AF axed the program is that the fighter mafia in the old TAC refused to send their interceptors against threats that far out at sea. OTHB could detect 100s to 1000s of miles out but if you arent going to intercept until they get close to the coast, then whats the point?
As a former fighter pilot, I can say that is incorrect. Take into account the range of the fighter/interceptor. In order to intercept and shoot down enemy bombers, the interceptor pilots have to be capeable of reaching the target(fuel), shooting down the target(loiter time), and returning to base(fuel).
The idea of scrambling fighters to intercept incoming bombers is based upon that concept. Therefore the target would have to be within “range”. If the targets were beyond the fighter’s range, inflight refueling would be required. USAF operational plans do not include orbiting inflight tankers in proximity to the planned engagement envelope.
In other words, USAF would not scramble fighters to intercept incoming bombers beyond the range of the fighters.
And we in the Tactical Air Command were never referred to as the “fighter mafia”.
You say I am incorrect but then you agree with me when you say that plans would not put tankers that close to the engagement envelope, so fighters would not be able to engage far out to sea and take advantage of OTHB’s detection range. That is exactly what my co-worker says was TAC’s reason for not supporting the OTHB.
OK, let’s look at it from this stand point. I will use the F-4E as an example. With full fuel load, two 600 gal wing tanks and one 610 gal centerline tank, AIM-7 and AIM-9 missiles aboard, the combat range is 1100nm +/-.
Factor in the miles to intercept point. Fuel burn during engagement and attempt to inflight refuel and RTB safely.
You are looking at an approximate engagement 400-500 miles max from the scramble site….
400 nm is an acceptable engagement envelope, with tankers in eliptical orbit 200-300 nm from the engagement.
So, OTHB site Maine “sees” the bad guys coming OTH. NORAD hits the klaxon and we scramble. With OTH info, NORAD vectors us to the bad guys. Engagement ensues, we kill the bad guys, vectors to the tankers and come home.
Every fighter pilot(TAC) will tell you that without radar warning we are pretty much blind.
Of course in today’s enviroment, much of this conversational.
Agree with all u said, think issue was OTHB resolution and IDing a track. Would u scramble on a complete unknown that is 500 miles out in international airspace? I could see OTHB having value to track RS bombers that were ID’d going thru the GIUK gap but without that cueing, you could be scrambling to intercept a 747 or something. Today NORAD relies on combined F-15/E-3/KC-135 packages (Long Range Detection Teams) to extend surveillance beyond ground based radar range. Only useful when you have intel to let u know Bears are taking off and heading our way.
Exactly Phantom!!!! Completely short sighted of the government to close those facilities. Just ridiuclous.
You mean, like on wind-power projects?
10 or 20 billion out of a 16 TRILLION debt? Compare that to the cost of WWII and 9/11 then get your head out of the sand. Prepare. There are many (lots) out there that don’t like us. If the up and coming nuclear ones don’t scare you, then how about Al-Quida getting their hands on the world’s largest chemical and biological arms in Syria? We tried isolationism a couple of times in just the past hundred years. Didn’t work then. Would it now?
Spend the money on what? More methedone clinics and welfare for “transients”.
Bangor has an airstrip capable that can be used by long range bombers. So yes in a war it would most definitely be a target as would Portland.
More Likely is a missile from a rouge state or terrorist group who would be happy to land a missile anywhere in the US . Since Maine is the closest part of the US to the Middle east we will be the first one’s to come within range of a missile from that direction.
Lets see, the government in all it’s wisdom closed Limestone air base and now wants to spend upwards to 50 billion on a new base. Sure does make sense to me, you?
Caribou would be ideal for the east coast not just Maine, as the shortest ICBM path would be over the polar caps.
I do think I would rather see this section of the Country protected from Susan Collins.
That is funny!
Dr Strangelove is at it again….I remember folks being afraid that the US would be invaded by Vietnam…though they didn’t have a navy….Military folks aren’t concerned with fact; just the next promotion.
Reliving the cold war days of paranoid thinking, big government spending and more debt.
All war mongers have is hate and fear to stimulate their supporters.
Were we afraid of being invaded by Vietnam? I don’t recall that. Maybe because I’m not concerned with fact.
Is it promotion time yet? This rank is so yesterday.
Hmmm – Seems to me that we tried explaining this to DC when they closed Loring AFB. Maybe someone down there watched the movie “War Games” again.
Hmmm – seems familiar… Didn’t we make that exact argument when they put Loring AFB on the closure list? Maybe someone in DC watched “War Games” again.
Re-activate part of Loring for this. The land is still there.
Be tough to make a quick turnaround. The base is littered with private companies and private housing.
First thing I thought when I read the headline was, “Ohh, You mean like LORING”
Surprise, Surprise, what do they think Loring was there for. They have taken just about everything away from Maine. Knowing that is so close to Europe and those surrounding areas.
Cant the government some how get Loring back or part of it? I think I saw on some website on here that part of it was forsale…
I heard somewhere a while back that the US Government has the authority to reactivate Loring AFB at any time if they need to. I’m not sure how they would do it since the government sold off the land.
I think that is true, but I was thinking there was a time frame on it. Not sure though, probably falls under eminent domain.
Next they’ll say there’s gold in Bald Mountain, oh wait…..
In the book “North River Depot” (was about how the weapons storage area was built at Loring) it was reported a vein of gold was found during the digging, but USAF covered it back up as we didn’t have time for gold…our nukes needed a home!
If i remember right , there were Nike missile sites already in place in the early 1960’s in or around the Caribou /Presque Isle area.
FDS. Partially intact. After the Nike-Hercules site was inactivated in
1966, used by the Air Force until Loring’s inactivation in the early
1990s as part of SAC’s GCCS (Global Command & Control System. L-58’s
housing area was taken over by the Air Force after the IFC was closed
by the Army, and was redesignated as Loring Family Housing Annex #2. It
was inactivated on 1 Oct 1980, declared excess on 15 Dec 1980, then
reactivated on 12 May 1981 and remained in use until the closure of
Loring Air Force Base in 1995. Now L-58C is used as a Long Range Radar
(LRR) site by the FAA, designated “J-63” equipped with ARSR-4 Radar.
Also used by the Air Force as part of the Joint Surveillance System (JSS) for NORAD.
Missile Defense was inactivated here under the presidency of Lindon Baynes Johnson (D) (It figures)
There were Missile sites in Bangor also out by what was Dowe Air Force Base now BIA…. called BOMARC missile sites.
This just great where was the lawmakers when loring was being closed.Collins and the rest of the high speed lawmakers gave up loring for brunswick because their was not enough votes in northern maine.Now she is retiring she believes that we need coverage in northern maine.Next they will try to buy back brunswick
“There’s always something.” -the late great Gilda Radner.
Military bases have nothing to do with strategic location. They are located based on political clout and the repaying of campaign favors. Which explains why our bases ( Dow, Loring, Brunswick, etc.) are now all closed. Maine does not have enough votes to rate anything. We are not a “swing state”.
Sadly correct.
You are (IMHO) correct. In today’s world, proximity to an enemy doesn’t matter anymore. Many of the nations base closures were indeed political.
Too bad no one can go back in time 20 years and keep Loring open
First of all Great thing to do….. But, secondly they Never should of closed Loring AFB!!!
The M.I.C. is in full swing on this one. Better listen to the words of General Smedley.
When do we stop producing weapons and begin repairing the damage done to our nation by out of control spending on the military? These studys are done by people who profit from war and the manufacture of weapons.
Boom…..
oh, let’s not forget the billions already spent in Alaska for a system that does not work, and can never be adequately tested. Anti-missile technology can not stop ICBMs..and it is woefully easy to devise a system to get past them..
… and you know this how?
we have tested and deployed anti-missile technology,it works fine we just need to expand its use.suitcase nukes are able to get by them,that is why we need to tighten our borders and install radiation detectors at our ports.
We have deployed and successfully tested and deployed anti missile tech that can intercept short and medium range missiles. We have not deployed a system that has a proven capability against rudimentary ICBMs let alone advanced RS or CH missiles. Quantum leap between engaging short, SCUD type missiles and an ICBM.
I was just wondering if the people in Aroostook County really want to be number one on the hit list of terrorists or in the bomb sights of other countries? I think it would be much better to build a defense system in Washington D.C. After all, who cares if they get wiped off the map?
:)
We were in the top five during the cold war, we’re used to it.
Decoys are cheap and effective.
High altitude nuclear bursts can ionize the upper atmosphere and blind ABM radars.
Missile sites and radars cannot be effectively defended – by nuclear or conventional attack.
Ballistic missile defense is an expensive scam.
Yessah
“It’s beter to have and not need than to need and not have”
The only reason we closed the SAC air base in Aroostook is because the southern Republicans had taken over the US congress and forced the Pentagon to move SAC to Republican Newt Gingrich’s district in Georgia.
The Pentagon has been using Bangor as a fueling and emergency air strip, but they really need a full time air base in Maine in order to defend our nation against expected future missile attacks.
Huh? SAC was moved to Georgia? Really? Get a clue, there are not now, nor were there in the 90s any SAC bases in Georgia. SAC, now USSTRATCOM is in Omaha, NE.
The idea of the proposed missle base being for protection from Iran or Korea is a smoke-screen. The real mission would be to keep those pesky Canadians at bay…..yeah…they’re a sneaky bunch that need watching!! It’s aboot time we dealt with this threat!!
If we just quit and joined Canada, we wouldn’t have these problems . . .
Aren’t we already headed in that direction?
an emp attack over the eastern us would essentially cripple our power distribution, communication and economic infrastructure not to mention cripple transportation.(think food).The gov’t. has ignored this danger for far too long.This type of attack could come from an enemy with little technological capability with just one missile detonated miles overhead, no need to strike a specific target
Defense! Look at the E.BT cards and clinics that could be built with all that wasteful spending.
A strike by North Korea might be the only hope Dover-Foxcroft, scratch that, Guilford has for effective urban renewal. Let’s think this thing through carefully.
Yes, Confederate state Republican politicians have been quite successful over the past 30 years in moving military bases (and jobs) to benefit their Congressional districts down South.
When Loring closed it was a questionable move and is still is. It would make sense for them to open back up again. Many of the buildings are still there. TIme will tell but this maks for and interesting article or discussion.
Our borders should be protected. You can’t build a fence high enough fir air strikes My Dad was from Caribou. The large potato field became an air base with weather station. If he was alive he would be for it.
Didn’t realize the weather station was on the base. Last time I PASSED it is was in the same place it had always been At the Caribou Airport. Been there as long as I can remember. I recall those yellow balloons flying by all the way back to the late 60’s.
It is not on the base. My dad was born in 1910.
I always thought that the closure of the Loring AFB was ill timed and should never have happened.
When I was stationed at Loring AFB, Jan 59 to June 62, We had the 42nd Bomb Wing, SAC. B-52 D’s and later G’s along with New KC-135’s replacing the KC-97’s. We also had a Fighter Interceptor Squadron (27thFIS) with Air DEFENSE Command and beautiful F-106’s. I was TDY’d to them for my last year. We ALSO HAD MISSILE SILO’s SPRINKLED AROUND THE NORTHEAST INCLUDING ONE OUTSIDE OF CARIBOU THAT WERE SHUT DOWN SUBSEQUENT TO MY TENURE THERE. My AFSC was 42350. Aircraft and MISSILE Electrical Repairman. 42nd FMS. I had to go to the silo outside Caribou for an electrical problem which makes it personal knowledge we had in place what they’re saying we need now. Something we had and let go. OOOOOOPS!! Let’s put it back at a cost far beyond the cost of the one that was there and could have been upgraded for far less. Loring closed in 94 under Mitchell and Cohen’s watch. A D and another RINO. (Cohen was also Secretary of Defense under slick Willie. That’s like a picture is worth a thousand words.) Snowe and Collins (the RINO sisters) got into office in 95 and 97 with subsequent major base closings and military defense installation closings under their watch. Collins will urge the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee to hold a hearing to evaluate the panel’s conclusions and recommendations. The report was an exhaustive in-depth technical report but now 26 members of the Senate have to evaluate the panel’s conclusions and recommendations!!! As if the majority of them are QUALIFIED. Collins is a minority member. Her Buddy Joey is a MAJORITY member, An “Independent” former “Democrat” who caucuses with the DEMOCRATS.There are other SASC MAJORITY TWITS such as Gillibrand (D) NY and Blumenthal (D) CT. McCain is the RANKING member but still a MINORITY member. Can’t wait and see the end result of that circus side show which will inject politics and ignorance into facts and figures..
So we’ll spend a ton of money Decommissioning Loring AFB and delete jobs in the area just to think how nice it would be to have a facility such as Loring AFB in the same location? These people are just brilliant!
bring back Silo 7…
Yes – bring back Limestone – if not to deter missiles, at least do it to deter Phish concerts.
Just kidding.
Typical the way we do things in this country. Close it, open it, close it, open it. They should have always maintained a presence in the furthest Northeasterly point in the lower 48!
After recently watched the rebroadcast as the planes came into New York and took down twin towers and hit Camp David etc. It would make sense to me that having some kind of early warning facility for the defense of these and other would be targets would be a sensible thing to initiate. With Limestone being northernmost easterly area to be in the position of a watchdog warning facility as someone has mentioned coming across from the Alaska region makes sense.
I live in Caribou; don’t even know what to think about this.
You had a base here for over forty years while we sat on top of a nuclear bullseye. While you were here all you did was belittle and malign. You didn’t seek to improve or expand the function of the base or improve the area. You relied on flawed data to justify your preconceived outcome. Now you’re gone, stay the hell OUT.
The government did the right thing when they closed Dow, Loring, and Brunswick. We need to save money and our government is starting in the right place- defense. We need to cut back the military and I believe that BRAC should make another round and continue to downsize. Eliot, Me., would be a good place to start. I think BIW is even questionable. This is a bad idea and hopefully it just gets forgotten.