BANGOR, Maine — Police on Tuesday arrested three 17-year-old boys — two from Bangor and one from Orrington — for allegedly spray-painting swastikas and other graffiti on two synagogues on York Street. Shortly after his release, one of the same teens was arrested again early Wednesday for tagging a stop sign.
The two Bangor teenagers were charged with felony aggravated criminal mischief, while the Orrington boy was charged with misdemeanor criminal mischief/vandalism “directly related to graffiti over the past weekend and this summer,” Bangor police Sgt. Paul Edwards said in a press release. “The three boys were mostly cooperative with Detective [Jim] Carr and as a result of his investigation many of the [open] cases of graffiti will be cleared.”
The teens were not identified because they are juveniles.
The synagogue graffiti included Nazi swastikas — an anti-Semitic symbol — and an upside-down cross with the numbers “666” — known as a sign of the devil — placed across the top. The graffiti was applied Friday night to the steps and pillars of Congregation Beth Israel and Beth Abraham Synagogue on York Street while people were inside the building.
“Graffiti is one thing, but when it starts becoming swastikas on synagogues, it’s no longer just graffiti. It’s a hate crime,” Bangor attorney Norman Minsky said over the weekend.
Minsky, who had European relatives on his father’s side whose lives were affected by the Nazis during World War II, was attending services at Beth Israel when the initial vandalism occurred.
The vandalism happened during the Jewish High Holy Days, a 10-day period of prayer that starts with Rosh Hashanah — the first day of the Jewish year and anniversary of the creation of Adam and Eve — and ends with Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the year.
The case will be sent to the Maine Attorney General’s Office for review to see whether the crime is deemed a hate crime under state law covering the desecration and defacement of places of worship, Edwards said.
One of the Bangor teens was arrested again at about 2:45 a.m. Wednesday when officers responded to State Street for a different call and discovered fresh graffiti, followed by a report of four people spray painting a stop sign at the intersection of Garland and Essex streets.
Officers converged on the area and arrested the Bangor teenager and another 17-year-old boy from Hampden and charged them both with misdemeanor criminal mischief.
“It’s quite brazen to get arrested one day and go back out and do it again,” Edwards said of the Bangor teen arrested twice within a few hours.
After the four boys were arrested, they were brought to the police station and released into the custody of their parents or guardians.
Tips from the public led police to the teenagers in both cases, Edwards said.
“Someone called at 2:45 a.m. If they hadn’t called, we wouldn’t have caught them,” the sergeant said.
Edwards said that none of the teens had records. He did not reveal any motive for the vandalism of the synagogues.
Jewish leaders at the two synagogues were notified of the arrests.
“They are aware of it and they seemed pleased with the outcome,” Edwards said.
Also pleased with the outcome was the Anti-Defamation League, which issued a statement commending police and the community for their efforts to identify the alleged vandals and for their support of the synagogues.
“ADL would like to thank the Bangor Police Department for its dedication and skill in promptly and vigorously investigating this matter,” Derrek L. Shulman, regional director of ADL New England, said.
“We also thank the entire community and federal, state and local leaders for their support and strong response to this crime,” he said.
BDN writer Andrew Neff contributed to this report.
Guess we have some slow learners.
Same kid arrested next day? Not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Good job and results for those involved in these recent happenings…..too bad the law prevents these teens from being identified….it would seem that their joy of painting would best be served by being made to spend some time painting some older farm buildings around the area…..maybe they would come to appreciate a good paint job instead of defacing property as seems to be their preferred choice…..
Not a bad idea. Only go one step further. Have them repaint the damage on the day services are being held. Show the congregation what find upstanding citizens these punks are.
I agree. Do you think a Maine judge can be that flexible and creative rather than stick to the common protocol?
” Have them repaint the damage on the day services are being held. Show the congregation what find upstanding citizens these punks are.”
What ?
How disrespectful of the congregation would that be ?
I agree, if either of the synagogues are Orthodox, then doing any kind of labor on saturday is a big deal.
Well then, have it another day and members of the congregation can stand by and watch.
by all means. i think in addition to doing handywork around the temples, they should be made to hold signs and stand in the medians on stillwater telling everyone what they did. that would take care of the panhandlers too.
“Well then, have it another day and members of the congregation can stand by and watch.”
Why do you think they would want to do that ?
It is just not civil.
Really? You are worried about what the vandals don’t want to do for punishment? You are concerned it is not civil? Was it a civil act when they vandalized the synagogues?
You seem to have problems comprehending, Mitt. Are you of the “literal” bent that precludes it?
Why isn’t the law good enough for you ?.
They clearly commented a hate crime, are months away from being adults and you talk like
middle school PTA ninnies, making crap up.
What kind of people think others want to watch those that hate them paint their Temple ?
I disagree with the statement “they clearly committed a hate crime” and feel you are over reacting here. Yes it WAS a bad thing to do but this was no hate crime. It was kids being kids. Teach them that it was wrong and move on. Good grief, some of you people make it sound as though they’d tied up and beat a man to death for being gay! Now THAT is a hate crime! What should we do to punish these people, hang 3 children by the neck until dead? Come on!
You sure you aren’t Mitt Rmoney? Your inability to communicate and/or comprehend is limitless, as you show with your every post.
Got a hat trick trick. too.
Three arrests in three days.
I think he is making statement of some sort, don’t you, now ?
Or throw them in an enclosed spray booth for an hour or so with 5 or 6 spray guns going full blast. “Get their minds right”, ala Cool Hand Luke.
The men involved in these crimes will not be punished in any meaningful way. Yes, I wrote “men”. A 17 year old as far as I am concerned is a man, they all know that this sort of behavior is most heinous, and unacceptable. But, the law considers them to be juveniles, (read children) and the juvenile justice system in Maine is so broken we may as well have nothing in place to punish juvenile criminals.
I could not agree with you more.
Prosecuting children as adults is wrong! I totally disagree with you that these 17 year old teenagers are men (read adults.) There actions proved that they are not adults. They need guidance and I can see from many of the comments that there are not many adults out there that are able to provide that guidance.
It’s my opinion that you are wrong and conversely that I am right, deal with it.
Your the one that can’t deal with an opposing opinion
Just wear your hood and robe in silence. Condoning these actions, as anything but hate, is supporting their actions and message.
Hood & robe? Are you a member of the KKK?
The problem is getting them to accept guidance from anyone. They don’t respect you. They don’t respect anyone. They don’t respect themselves. And I don’t mean fear. I mean respect. They know there is little that can be done to them, and little that will be done for them. Guidance must acknowledge their situations and slim chances for what the 20th century mind calls “success”.
Reverand, I don’t know your denomination, philosophy, or skills. I do know that making them swallow a jesus pill won’t work. What else have you got?
I despise organized religion! What else ya got?
well first off a persons brain does not fully stop maturing til they are 21 to 23 years old.so at 17 they are teen boys not men.put them in residential treatment before we throw in the towel,after all they hadn’t had any trouble up to now.
I completely understand the reaction to the bad choice these misguided children made. But, as I said in other posts about this crime, my guess is that these kids were looking for maximum shock value when they desecrated these churches. They succeeded. Yet I do not think this qualifies as a hate crime, not by a long shot. If they’d bombed a church, or tortured a person, or burned a cross on a front yard, then I’d call it a hate crime. One night of painting graffiti does not qualify in my mind. So I think the punishment should fit the crime and, as one comment suggested, have them repaint the churches under the glaring eyes of the congregation. As the Reverend58 says below, putting them in jail does nothing to fix the problem and does not serve to teach anyone anything. OK, now ream me a new one for my opinion.
More like 25 or 26, actually. That’s why car insurance drops when you hit 27. The twidgits in accounting don’t know the neurobio. They just know the actuarial tables.
No trouble up to now? How do you know? This doesn’t strike me as a first offense type of move. It may be the first time they’ve been caught, but I believe this is habitual behavior. One was arrested again at 2:45.
Residential treatment? Where they can learn new skills from other young felons? No thanks. Drop them off on an island with restricted access and a month’s food. Pick them up at the end of the month after they’ve had some time alone to consider their errors. Some Indian tribes have found banishment a very effective punishment. I’m not in favor of hand amputation as it is likely to make them less useful to society and more likely to commit anti-social behaviors. Indonesia uses caning with some success.
How about we do what the Taliban would do for desecrating a house of worship? Let’s line them up in a public square and have some guy wearing a hood cut off one of their hands. Yup, that’ll teach ’em won’t it.
Agreed! And, their parents will do absolutely nothing– well, perhaps chuckle and “Boys will be boys”!! Their names will appear in the Police Beat as adults, without doubt.
Excellent suggestion.
Thank you to the police for catching these ignorant miscreants.
I don’t intend to minimize the level of offensiveness of this action, but I think it’s a stretch to call this a hate crime without more factual evidence. I’m more inclined to think that this was just dumb kids – unless somebody can show me a Jewish connection to the 666 reference. Let’s all calm down and find out what we’re really dealing with here.
Swastikas were used by Hitler during the Holocaust…maybe you missed that part in the previous article?
Duh! I think we all know that, but thanks…. Maybe a 17 year old would not get the gravity of the situation? Just Sayin’
So that excuses them? How else would they learn the seriousness of what they did?
by age 17, you have learned several times how offensive swastikas are to Jews. I recall learning about WWII in 3rd grade.
You went to school a long time ago my friend, they don’t, sadly, cover WW2 much today…. and they should, but they don’t.
graduated in 2004, but then again, my history teacher was Jewish.
Where I teach, the students are still taught about the Holocaust. When was the last time you were in a high school observing what was being taught?
My daughter told me tonight they are covering every single major war in depth this year in her 8th grade history class.
I find it hard to believe that there are people above the age of 15 that don’t know what the swastika symbol was used for.
I am thinking if they spent more time paying attention in history class, they would get the gravity of the lesson…
The point is that the swastika is recognized internationally as a symbol of hate. Bangorian indicated he didn’t see a connection with the swastika and it being a hate crime against Jewish people. Duh!
the swastikas was not hitlers idea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
Does it really matter whose idea it was to use the swastika as their symbol? The point is that it is identified as a symbol of hate by the Jewish people…much like the Confederate flag is identified by African Americans in the south.
Who here is calling this a “hate crime?”
Did you read the article?
Yes, so again, Bangoian, just how, exactly, is spray-painting swastikas and other graffiti on two synagogues during the High Holidays not a hate crime ?
Hmmm, just assuming they are 17 year olds, FAR removed from the attrocities of WW2, and not aware of the significance of the dates….High Holidays and all that…..still not a nice thing to do, but a Hate Crime? Nah, they were just stupid and insensitive…. just sayin
I assume you are not jewish and/or do not have family members who are jewish. If you did, you might feel far different. I believe there is no place in our society for punks who paint swastikas on jewish temples. I believe we need to send a clear message that this is unacceptable. Otherwise we might as well forget the past ever occurred.
Ooops! I am not jewish, so there is that… Maybe, in your view, the court should find them guilty of a hate crime… what would you like to see as punishment? Kill them? Hang them upside down on the cross for all of us to see? Put a dumb 17 year old away in prison for the rest of thier lives? What do you think is the right thing to do? Or…just maybe they were just being stupid kids and being insensitive…..do YOU want to be the judge of that? Just Sayin’
$5,000.00 seems about the right for the violation of the Maine Civil Rights Act.
https://www.maine.gov/ag/civil_rights/faq.shtml
Ok, so this is all about the money that should be paid?
No….but that is the maximum penalty under Maine law for violation of the Maine Civil Rights Act.
How does the Maine Civil Rights Law apply here, it usually applies to the rights of an individual?
The below information is taken from the Maine Attorney General website.
“The Maine Civil Rights Act
In the State of Maine, the Attorney General enforces the Maine
Civil Rights Act, a civil statute that authorizes the Attorney General
to seek restraining orders against persons who commit violence, threats
of violence, or property damage motivated by bias. These restraining
orders are intended to ensure that the people in this State are afforded
the rights guaranteed to them by the United States Constitution, and
the Constitution and laws of Maine”
http://www.maine.gov/ag/civil_rights/index.shtml
“Ooops! I am not jewish, so there is that… Maybe, in your view, the court should find them guilty of a hate crime… what would you like to see as punishment? Kill them? Hang them upside down on the cross for all of us to see? Put a dumb 17 year old away in prison for the rest of
thier lives? ”
Why not just the rule of law ?
What are the terms for a hate crime ?
It is supposed to be equal for everyone, so what if you are not Jewish, or if you were ?
Just sayin’, too.
Hmm
Sure did…but you replied to my comment that you thought it a “stretch to call it a hate crime” which I never did in my original comment…..
“Who here is calling this a “hate crime?””
The informed.
Who is excusing it, and why ?
Me for one
Typical liberal answer. They targeted the church, it’s obvious that they knew what they were doing. Hold them accountable for their actions. If they slap them on the hands, who knows what they’ll do next.
They also targeted a stop sign.
It was only one of the teens that targeted a stop sign.
Now you’re just splitting hairs.
What is your intent? Your comments are as offensive as the graffiti.
Because I’m calling for calm until we know the whole story? Having complete information is offensive to you?
Attacking my people is. This is an insult and your minimizing it is wrong and just as offensive.
Along with his friends that didn’t get caught with the first two.
WOW! Like that is anywhere near the same thing!
Bangorian isn’t a bad commenter, just way off base with this one
Yeah, “One of the Bangor teens was arrested again at about 2:45 a.m. Wednesday when officers responded to State Street for a different call and discovered fresh graffiti, followed by a report of four people spray painting a stop sign at the intersection of Garland and Essex streets….. ” It’s quite brazen to get arrested one day and go back out and do it again,”
See, they just keep breaking the law. They should not have even been released .
I’m just saying, there is who they think they are.
that was only one of the 4,the other one was a different person alltogether.
Big difference between graffiti on a stop sign and a swastika on a Jewish Temple!
OMG! Defacing a Stop Sign!
Its just a start, and only hours after being released for defacing the synagogue,Hello!!!
Point is this kid had no care of the consequences. A slap on the wrist does nothing to deter them doing the same thing in the future.
Just hours after being released . And Hello where are the parents at 2:30 am?
Painting a Swastika on a synagogue specifically shows they knew exactly what they were doing. There is no plea of ignorance here. I say charge them with a hate crime. The emotional impact that may have on an older Jewish person is very real
Got a hat trick trick. too.
Three arrests in three days.
I think he is making statement of some sort, don’t you, now ?
That’s funny, usually its conservatives who push back against the hate crime label because white Christians are usually the ones accused of them. I agree, this is a hate crime, but “typical liberal answer” is a kneejerk partisan response from you.
It wasn’t a church, it was 2 synagogues. They also targeted much more than that. It says so right in this article if your read it. The next time you drive or stroll around Bangor try opening your eyes. I commented about this when the crime first happened.
“I’m more inclined to this that this was just dumb kids – unless somebody can show me a Jewish connection to the 666 reference.”
How very liberal of you, suddenly.
Defending even Satan…did he make them do it, do you think, may-be ?
Throw the book at them, IF FOR NO OTHER REASON, than proving tagging is not victim-less crime !
At seventeen they are nearly legal adults.
So Bangoian, just how, exactly, is spray-painting swastikas and other graffiti on two synagogues during the High Holidays not a hate crime ?
Then, when did ignorance of the law or plain ignorance, for that matter, become an excuse good enough for you ?
More importantly, why, in this case ?
I’m more and more inclined to view you as a one of many supportive apologists, here.
Why should one not think that ?
My point, which you seem to have missed entirely, is that you are making an assumption that the dumb kids involved here knew that it was a High Holy Day and had malicious intent toward people of the Jewish faith. There are swastica’s and numbers and little devil faces painted on half of the stop signs, highway overpasses and cinder block walls in this town. Offensive yes, but a Federal “hate crime” with a penalty steep enough to ruin a young life? I’m not sure yet, not without more information.
Why are your assumption more valid ?
I’m not making any. I’m asking for people to calm down until we have more information about their motivation.
What is your intent? Your comments are as offensive as the graffiti.
you sound like a broken record
Because ignorant people need to be reminded before it happens again. You are as far from being reverend as they come.
” I’m not making any. ” (assumptions)
Oh, not even when you said :
Bangorian in reply to PabMainer
“I don’t intend to minimize the level of offensiveness of this action” *
… ” I’m more inclined to think that this was just dumb kids ”
* Then, for goodness sake, stop doing it, at the very least or your motives just seem more questionable, sir.
You must be blind ,How can you not see their motive’s? Maybe you should sit and have a beer with their parents.
What is your intent? Your comments are as offensive as the graffiti.
There is no assumption being made . They were desecrating a house of worship . they are 17 years old and they know right from wrong.
The tree digit symbol is an insult to all religions .
No it isn’t. It means nothing to anyone other than those that believe the New Testament.
Last I knew, it was not up to us, playing armchair prosecutors to get the whole story. As so many point out over and over, the BDN never provides as much information as what seems to be needed to fully be judge, jury and official.
Anarchists have no respect for anyone and unless they are punished to the fullest extent for a crime they DID understand they will most certainly laugh in your’s and my face and do it again.
I agree with you 100%
BTW re: “unless somebody can show me a Jewish connection to the 666 reference …”
ANOTHER BROAD ASSUMPTION ON YOUR PART, BANGORIAN.
You should be asking how the punks and bully-boys, down though history have connected some people they dislike with perdition.
There is a big difference, don’t you know ?
But here: http://www.publiceye.org/tooclose/protocol.html
Lacking attention aren’t we…No other reason to imply this,than someone seeking attention….
That’s the problem with hate crimes, they seem be be applied selectively. It’s really tough to crawl into the minds of these miscreants and see if they did this out of hate or not.
It doesn’t matter whether they felt actual “hate” in my opinion. They certainly knew the significance of their actions. The kid that ran our and tagged again showed they have no remorse nor concern for consequences. This is why the consequences should be as severe as possible. These kids are obviously headed down the wrong path as it is. Should we just give them a ticket and say, “now don’t do that again”?
There is no 666 or inverted cross connection in Judaism. That is an intended slap in the face aimed at anybody a Christian believes is controlled by satan. Personally, I’d like to see these kids out there working their little tails off removing the graffiti. It’s what my father would have demanded I do regardless of the court’s decision.
On an earlier story, I suggested that since they are still “trainable” they should watch/read Ann Frank’s diary and be shown, at least, the holocaust memorial here in Boston. Those unassuming 6 little glass structures with the serial numbers of the ones gone, etched in its glass walls, will bring anyone to their knees. Maybe enough to make these kids to stop thinking it’s funny.
Nah, they have enough cash for spray paint cans, but not enough to travel to Boston… and I’m not willing to pony up the money for them.
Problem is, the training is years overdue, as is much hope for their developing any empathy for their fellow man. Hate to say it, but it sounds like they weren’t taught (and/or given)compassion.
maybe they read charles mansons book.
666 is a Christian idea, has nothing to do with the idea of a hell as such that many if us grew up with. There’s nothing in the Torah of our(?) version of hell. It’s only a New Testament idea of the Judeo-Christian faith.
So that makes it all better.
No, it shows that you don’t know what your talking about.
In the Textus Receptus manuscripts of the New Testament, the Book of Revelation (13:17-18) cryptically asserts 666 to be “the number of a man,” associated with the beast,
an antagonistic creature that appears briefly about two-thirds into the
apocalyptic vision. Some manuscripts of the original Greek use the
symbols chi xi stigma, while other manuscripts spell out the number in words.
In modern popular culture, 666 has become one of the most widely recognized symbols for the Antichrist or, alternatively, the Devil.
The number 666 is reportedly used to invoke Lucifer (Satan) the dark
spirit of seething rage. Earnest references to the number occur both
among apocalypticist Christian
groups and in explicitly anti-Christian subcultures. References in
contemporary Western art or literature are, more likely than not,
intentional references to the Beast symbolism. Such popular references are therefore too numerous to list.
It is not uncommon to see the symbolic role of the integer 666 transferred to the digit sequence
6-6-6. Some people take the Satanic associations of 666 so seriously
that they actively avoid things related to 666 or the digits 6-6-6. This
is known as hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia.
In some early biblical manuscripts, the number is cited as 616.
Other occurrences
In the Bible, 666 is the number of talents of gold Solomon collected each year (see 1 Kings 10:14, 2 Chronicles 9:13).In the Bible, is the number of Adonikam’s descendants who return to Jerusalem and Judah from the Babylonian exile (see Ezra 2:13).In Kabbalistic Judaism,
666 is the number represents the creation and perfection of the world.
The world was created in 6 days, and there are 6 cardinal directions
(North, South, East, West, Up, Down).In the Bible, early versions of the Gospel of Mark had 666 verses;[2] modern version have 678, where Mark 16: 9-20 are believed to have been added later.[3]
If they didn’t see the significance of swastikas on a Jewish temple, they’d have painted them on some other building — city hall or the police department maybe.
They knew!
They have painted them on other buildings in Bangor
If it was dumb kids, here’s an opportunity to educate them. I think they should be at the rabbi’s disposal for the next three months during any free time: use them as go-fers, do odd jobs, run errands, do janitorial work.
Also attend services, and if anybody in the congregation is good enough to invite them home, they should join a few families at home for shabbat and seders.
I agree with you up to the part about doing janitorial work. Attending services, No. Religion need not be shoved down anyone’s throat.
Since Jews don’t believe in hell or heaven for that matter the 666 reference is pointless to them as most assume 666 is the mark of the beast, aka the devil but I still think they should be charged with a hate crime.
In the book of Revelations, it sais the thirteen tribes of hebrews are going to fly off to la la to be with their God, while the rest of us in the world of non Jews as those who don’t repent in Jesus Christ are subject to judgement and will carry “markings of the beast,” to be burned forever in a bit or lake of fire. Three 6s is a code for figuring out who the beast is, and only “wise” people can figure it out.
Thank you Bangorian. It’s nice to see intelligent life out there. From reading the comments it doesn’t look like there are many of us left. It’s sad there are so few adults capable of instructing our young ones in a positive manner.
Just wait a day or so and they might identify themselves on social media.They seem to be either intellectually challenged or sufficiently sociopathic that at least one will be bragging about this.The repeat tagger who was arrested the second time sure will not win any awards for his intellectual skills.
Yeah, I guess we should be expecting adult actions from 17 year old teenagers. How adult is it to be calling 17 year olds that you don’t know and have never met intellectually challenged or sociopathic? What are your qualifications to substantiate this claim?
Punks! Plain and simple. If they had burned a cross on an African American’s it would considered a hate crime. What’s the difference?
What’s the difference?
Bigot solidarity, is my only guess as to why the apologists are spinning this..
Maybe they’ll grow up to live at The Pines and “Pickle Hill” What’s going on with Bangor? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lS3TXrVi76s and pt 2~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piXSlYmpsVM
If I were the judge, I would order these young people to view hours and hours of Germany’s horrid history. If real tears are seen, then let them move on to the next phase and sit down with the elders who have experienced historical trauma, and learn from them.
Down deep, I believe these kids are just plain ignorant to our history. They are just trying to act cool and have not been taught respect. I have studied and toured Holocaust Museums, and I never can exit without deep pain. It’s a pain that helps give me a greater respect to the country I live in, and the will to respect those around me who have suffered through political pain, wars, etc.
I agree with your observation of ignorance of history. Sadly, I find this in all ages, not just teens. But I don’t think viewing hours of holocaust history would have any where near the impact on young minds as would the parents requiring them to clean up the mess they made. Viewing history is an abstract event (“It didn’t happen to me.”), however, being held responsible for your own current crimes is an immediate lesson. As the Traveling Wilbury’s sang, “I’ve made a mess, But I’ll [have to] clean it up myself, I guess”.
Good grief. Why are these kids roaming the streets at nearly 3 in the morning? There’s this thing called a BED and they should have been in it.
And why are their parents not keeping track of them better?
Way to go folks. You should be proud of the winners your absence has raised.
2:45 AM?
Not a hate crime Like I said before. Stupid even sick thing to do.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
I do not care about laws nearly as much as I do about what is right and what is wrong. If a DA lies in court is is not against the law . If I do it is. If you lie to a cop it is against they law if the lie to you it is not. Some Laws too me make no sense. It was against the law for mandated reporters not to report Carlson. DA. Dose nothing. That to me is just criminal . Something only a sociopath would do. Stupid kids should be be punished and taught what is right and wrong but the example set by public figures makes that hard.
“I do not care about laws nearly as much as I do about what is right and
what is wrong.”
Hmm aren’t laws based on right and wrong?
~~~~~
“If a DA lies in court is is not against the law .”
Actually it is illegal for a DA/AG to lie in court. They are an “officer of the court” and as such cannot “suborn perjury”.
~~~~~
“If I
do it is.”
If you are under oath correct.
~~~~~
“If you like to a cop it is against they law if the lie to you
it is not.”
If the officer is under oath, just like you it is perjury. Several cops have been charged and convicted in court of perjury. Maybe not in Maine but when caught they are subject to the same laws and penalties as anyone else. (Please don’t call me naive, etc…it happens and if you want to search the net you will find examples of it.)
~~~~~
“Some Laws too me make no sense.”
Agreed.
~~~~~
“It was against the law for
mandated reporters not to report Carlson. DA. Dose nothing.”
It seems the the mandated reported law has no penalty for not reporting. As I have suggested time and time again there needs to be a penalty associated with non-reporting. But the DA cannot “create” a charge out of thin air.
~~~~~
“That to
me is just criminal . Something only a sociopath would do. Stupid kids
should be be punished and taught what is right and wrong but the example
set by public figures makes that hard.”
Again the DA cannot create a penalty where no penalty exists.
Like I said he could charge them make them found guilty . No penalty not an issue make the name public. Not all Laws are not based on right and wrong. Yes the laws allow a DA. to lie in court HOW IS THAT RIGHT???? JD are you really as naive as you pretend to be? You state facts as if this is how it really works. The pressure to get 100% conviction rates in some crimes and the do your buddy a favor come into play in the real world. I could give you a few names of cops that bend the law a bit for personal reasons. Not much is done about it. You chose to see the best . The Judge was hard on lets make a (JIM. Diehl) . Nothing becomes of it. Cop brags about fixing accident report not much becomes of it. Cop say he will arrest you if you do not give relative money in a cival matter nothing . cop lies in court nothing . That is what I have saw first hand . UMaine hockey player get caught drunk driving DA. sweeps it under the rug. Who you are plays a big role in the justice you get believe it or not that is your choice. No hard feelings . Fire fighter drives firetruck back to the station with no lic after multiple OUIs Nothing again. Police are taught to say they do not recall under oath . Is that not a lie to say you do not recall if you do? just kinda hard to prove. Good luck to you with your Rose colored glasses . My glasses might be dirty .
“Like I said he could charge them make them found guilty .
If you wish me to respond I will first need to understand what you said. Your sentence makes no sense.
~~~~~
“No penalty not
an issue make the name public.”
All the names ARE public with the exception of the therapist/counselor.
~~~~~
“Not all Laws are not based on right and
wrong.”
I am trying to think of an example but cannot. Maybe you can.
~~~~~
“Yes the laws allow a DA. to lie in court HOW IS THAT RIGHT????”
Example please.
~~~~~
“JD are you really as naive as you pretend to be?”
I guess you didn’t read the complete post.
~~~~
“You state facts as if
this is how it really works.”
And you have “proof” that it doesn’t. I see you make a list of what you “saw” first hand. What did you do about it? If you have proof provide it.
~~~~~
“UMaine hockey player get caught drunk driving DA. sweeps it
under the rug.”
If you are referring to Nicholas Payson he was tossed off the team and suspended from UMaine. I cannot and it seems he didn’t learn his lesson either…”Nicholas Payson, 23, Surry, operating vehicle without license, jail 48
hours; operating vehicle under influence of intoxicants, $600, jail 10
days, license suspended three years; violating condition of release,
jail 48 hours.” That is not the normal penalties for something that was sweep under the rug.
~~~~~
“Who you are plays a big role in the justice you get
believe it or not that is your choice. No hard feelings .”
In some cases yes it does and that is wrong.
~~~~~
“Fire fighter
drives firetruck back to the station with no lic after multiple OUIs
Nothing again.”
Any proof or name? It’s a matter of public record so if it is true please don’t be “afraid” of naming names.
~~~~
“Police are taught to say they do not recall under oath .
Is that not a lie to say you do not recall if you do? just kinda hard
to prove.”
Proof?
~~~~~
“Good luck to you with your Rose colored glasses . My glasses
might be dirty . ”
No rose colored glasses here. I just don’t believe the system is as bad as you claim it is. If you have real proof that it is, provide it.
When I was going to make a report I was told “You will be harrassed by every cop In Maine” . Right from the DAs office. I wish I had a recorder going at that time. I am not saying it is as bad as I say it is . Just is in way to many cases . He was not stopped by the police . Just saying it happened and part of the reason a firefighter resigned . You look at public records law and facts you can prove. I see what I saw . Nick Peyson was not the one I was referring too. The one I was was never charged so you will not read about it in the paper. But, nick was arrested for aggravated assault . Charges dropped . Reinstated OUI . It was not his first brush with the law by far. You will not get details about things that do not make the paper. You win I loose JD . You use the media and make court records to find facts. How about using someone like Grant Stanbrook or a former dispatcher ? You will find maybe not as much now as 15 years ago but a lot of things are swept under the rug for the right people. Your buddies that you know in LE must keep you in the dark because you are a straight shooter.
swastikas are an ancient symbol of protection…
Nicht für die Juden. (not for the Jews, I think.)
aye but:
es ist zeit fur reich! wir mussen die juden ausrotten!
That was true only until Hitler and his minions appropriated (stole) the symbol and made it into something evil and perverse.
It’s a very painful reminder to all about the heinous crimes that Hitler committed. Even if it is an ancient symbol, that is not how it is looked at today.
Ya think Columbus Day is not a hateful reminder to some? We still celebrate it today. I agree with you. Just saying it is not a perfect word . Some do not understand a lot of things. Maybe because we were Lied to in School about the facts to make us feel good. If you were a native american you would see how they were both the same in lots of ways.
I agree, what about all the hate crimes against Native Americans!!! Can’t just sweep them under the big old buffalo rug! We were all lied too, and they knew it!
i guess that didnt bother saint johns catholic which is down the street that is good
I wonder it they might not be alter-boys or on the soccer team.
Something is fishy about all the people excusing them.
It will be decided what charges will be brought when their status in society is determined..
Taging is a 20 dollars fine according to our city fathers… I guess the kids couldn’t wait until the council decided which private property was OK to tag.
These are not hate crimes, they are crimes by idiots! I am sure they are not smart enough to know what real damage they are doing to society. Community service is the best venue for them, let them paint paint paint, just make sure its on public buildings, all one color, and all summer long!
That’s the problem here, apparently. If there is no distinction in the mind of a young person between vandalizing a stop sign and painting symbols of hate on a house of worship, what we have is a sociopath in the making. Again, make them responsible for cleaning up the mess they made. If the congregation has already taken care of that, I’m sure there is groundwork (mowing, tending shrubs, shoveling snow, etc) that needs to be tended to at the locations. Direct responsibility is has the strongest impact. Making someone responsible for something else is only an abstract punishment; there also needs to be a lesson built into the punishment if we don’t want these kids perpetrating more horrific crimes five years down the road. Yep, I’m a big advocate of Tough Love. Sadly, this concept seems to have taken a back seat with the laws proclaiming that children are born with all the rights of adulthood. Children are born with one right: the right to a solid, guided upbringing by parents who do not abuse; any other rights should be earned, not gifted. My guess would be that these kids felt that they were only having fun; that is was ‘wrong’, but had no real understanding that it was WRONG.
Sociopath In the making . Sound like most politicians . They all Lie to futher thier cause on both sides. maybe even UMaine is a sociopath . $10 million more spent on sports that the sport bring in. Who pays for it everyone . Do they even care NO. To me that is just pain evil. These kids are stupid . Maybe never understand the hurt it caused . Point is this did not change someone life yes feeling were hurt but not life changing . Do you understand what it is like to tell your kids I can not afford to send you to college? That dose change people lives. Its a bigger problem with are society as a whole we do not care about things that do not affect us personally. I wonder if those were some of Bangor High schools dropouts. $7Million dollar football field . High drop out rate no one dose much about.
What good does cuddling sociopaths do ?
One was arrested again in the wee hour of day after his release.
That sure fits being a sociopath.
So why not throw the book at them ?
Why is it not a hate crime ?
Sorry….hate crime.
“I am sure they are not smart enough to know what real damage they are doing to society.”
When did you get you smart enough to be sure of that and that this is not a hate crime ?
To the judge who handles this case:
1. Please don’t use my tax dollars to provide free room and board for these young men at the local jail.
2. Insist that their parents be at their hearing.
3. Put the word out to find some Bangor citizens on a fixed income who need a fence/shed/or other structure painted.
4. Sentence the young men AND their parents to purchase painting supplies and do the jobs.
5. Hook them up with Adult Ed. for their G.E.D. if necessary. If they are out at 3 in the morning vandalizing property, they probably aren’t headed to high school the next day!
6. Tell them to get a good education and a job. I, in my retirement years, am unwilling and unable to continue subsidizing rent, financing EBT cards, buying methadone, and paying for the costs to maintain prisoners by our state and local systems.
they will send em up to loring job corp.
Not a hate crime? There may be some “grey” area when it come to painting a swastika on a bridge support. Is it hate or just an idiotic act? But the grey area is removed when painting a swastika on a synagogue, that is a hate crime.
Here’s the law, linked within the article, this act easily meets the definition.
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/17-A/title17-Asec507.html
THIS IS A HATE CRIME. These 17 year olds are old enough to know. CHARGE THEM WITH A HATE CRIME. Do not let them off with a slap on the hand. If you do, this behavior will continue. Even worse, the courts will also be complicit in this type of behavior.
Just think for a minute…. these stupid kids did not really understand what they were doing. They are just ignorant and cruel, obviously not old enough to understand the enormity of what they were doing. That being said, not a hate crime, but still a crime, let them do serious community service, including watching several hours of videos about WW2 and the atrocities that were committed, then let them spend hours painting something that will actually benefit the community! Their accountability and their new gained understanding might just benefit all of mankind in the end….
Wrong ,They do know what they did. It is a hate crime , they should be punished accordingly .
What are the parents being charged with…Child neglect at the least I would hope.
These same fine young men tagged the Professional Building at 263 State St. Take a look at the
back of the building and windows. The owners will have to pay to repaint the back wall and clean the windows. This is not a victimless crime. These kids need to be taught a lesson and pay some
restitution to the owners of all the buildings they defaced. I for one hope the AG finds the tagging of the Jewish property a hate crime and they spend a year or so in Charleston.
I think these kids should be scrubbing the graffiti off the walls and made to stand in downtown Bangor with a sign around their necks saying that they are 17 year old kids with nothing better to provide to society than to spray paint and deface private and state property.
What irritates me is that if this happened to a mosque it would be a hate crime. So why is this not a hate crime? Even the severely uneducated youth of America learn about WWII…so how do they not know how this was a bad idea? It’s severely uncalled for and it is purposely hateful and hurtful towards a particular group of people. That alone should make it a hate crime.
A like for your first part.
And a like for your whole statement.
The parents should be right there with them too , Just to make sure they do it right ,and not slip off and deface another public structure.
If there is a “book” to be thrown at these hooligans, THROW IT!!
When my daughter visited the concentration camps in Germany and saw the ovens, she called me from there. Crying!!! “Mama, now I know what you were talking about,” she said. I agree with Boogie_Bangor that these kids should be watching many hours of the history of that time. They would soon learn what harm they caused by their so-called pranks. And don’t tell me that these kids are stupid! They knew what they were doing. They didn’t paint the swastikas on the court house, did they? They purposely chose the synagogue.
Odd, that. Must’ve been a coincidence that it happened during the season of Atonement and Forgiveness. A real coincidence, huh? Like when are all know the Jews trash our creches at Christmas? Or would it pertain to all our “kids” spray graffiti on anything to do with Mecca or during Ramadan? It was stupidly juvenile, but put it in their perspective. I don’t support any religion and am a bit of a twit myself, but have lived amongst enough of most to know that you don’t mess with another’s beliefs. I can do enough of that with my Catholic wife!
God is with you.
Have any family members or friends of the punks posted: ‘this was an accident and they are really good kids and everyone has done this’ yet?
By the legal definition this is a hate crime; If the intent was to tweak the nose of the Jews, it’s still a hate crime but might not warrant prosecution to the nth degree; If, after investigation, the youths hold anti-semitic views, the sentencing should be commensurate.
I don’t see the null set as a possibility–that is, the kids were making an anti-social statement without an understanding of the sensitivity of Jews to symbols connected with an effort to exterminate them as a people. I think we can safely assume that these kids knew that what they were doing could land them in a heap of trouble and that there is a significant and transcendent difference between defacing a street sign and a house of worship.
Why isn’t excusing ignorance ignorant ?
Ignorance of the law is never a valid defense.
Plain ignorance is no excuse, either.
Stop yelling and listen….maybe your narrow minded attitude is the root of the “Hate” problem….
Sorry, but I do not think us Jews are the narrow minded ones. You just sit back and wait for them to start killing your family.
People who type in all capital letters are what is wrong with this world.
No what is wrong are the simple minded people on this site who ignore the hate shown and try to pass it off as boys being boys. Maybe you would type in capitals too if your family members died in the holocaust.
Get a grip
Wow, what an inteeligent and appropriate comment. I’ll let the rest of my living family know that the reverend doesn’t feel we should get upset when people like himself feels the holocaust is no big deal. We’ll all sleep better knowing that our family died in vain.
Wow! What are you feeling guilty for?
We still glorify Columbus. History lies to kids. The holocaust was a big deal but if we would have been on the German side and had won the book would say something different. The truely sad thing is we still sit back and let genocide happen like in Darfor . Why was not a lesson learned ?
Amazing that anyone would try to defend these actions.
Edwards said that none of the boys had records .Duh Ya think cause they hadn’t been caught until now ? And he couldnt figure out the motive. Duh again .How about just hate? Or ignorance
How about taking a switch to their buts.No we can’t do that . It might make an imprestion on them. What a shame that would be. Maybe they should make the parents clean it up for them. Now there’s the ticket.
Maybe eventually they will end up in the Bolduc Unit in Warren, Like the kid from Belfast
Crosses and 666? Get your hate straight.
upside down crosses… as I said above too much TV>
So, assuming this is a hate crime… what would be the appropriate sentence for these individuals who committed this crime? Should they go to jail? How Long? Should they pay a fine, how much? Should they face the death sentence (although Maine does no have that) What should the court do? Just Sayin’
Still waiting for a respectful response….not a hatefull response to my question. What should really happen here, what is proper in light of what has transpired?
Unless tried as adults, until they are 18.
Hate Crime, thought police. Funny how they jail free speech and tell people how to feel..
It was wrong and they should be put in prison until the age of 21.. Why to make a point how stupid our laws have gotten
If it were capehart kids they would still be in jail…
Juveniles are almost always released to the custody of their parents. Only juveniles (and at the age of 17 they are still juveniles in the eyes of the law) that commit serious personal injury crimes are sent to Mount View for holding until a hearing. Doesn’t matter if they are from Capehart, that is the general policy.
Of course you are wrong (as usual)
Children are sent to Mountain View or Long Creek if there is inadequate supervision at home, and they are inappropriate candidates for foster care or residential treatment. Children prone to running from insecure facilities, children who re-offend and children whom the judges determine are negatively influenced by their local environment might wind up at a State facility.
It is also true that children from lower income families have a greater chance of going to one of the two State facilities.
“Of course you are wrong (as usual)”
Maybe….maybe not.
~~~~~
“Children are sent to Mountain View or Long Creek if there is
inadequate supervision at home, and they are inappropriate candidates
for foster care or residential treatment. Children prone to running
from insecure facilities, children who re-offend and children whom the
judges determine are negatively influenced by their local environment
might wind up at a State facility.”
What you say is true….thank you for ADDING to my most.
~~~~~
“It is also true that children from lower income families have a greater chance of going to one of the two State facilities.”
Could you provide a source that will show this to be true. If you cannot it is your opinion and only your opinion.
Only if you are interested in reading my Masters thesis (with statistics.) Or you could go here;
not specific to juveniles just all low income folks;
http://www.justicepolicy.org/news/1909
or here again not specific to juveniles;
http://www.givewell.org/united-states/education/achievement-gap
This one is juvenile centered;
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1914837,00.html
This one is black centric, but does mention low income factors.
http://www.aecf.org/upload/publicationfiles/fact_sheet13.pdf
This one is centered on the benefits of early childhood education, but does mention the higher arrest and incarceration levels of low income children.
http://www.aecf.org/upload/publicationfiles/fact_sheet13.pdf
You might also write the former Bangor Police Chief and discuss the matter with him. He has long championed early services for low income children because it keeps them out of court and jail. As I said you are wrong. Ne an adult and admit it.
And your “masters” would be in what Mark?
By the way, I don’t care if these “kids” are low income, middle income, upper middle income or come for the “1%”.
They committed a crime. You want to make this crime about the economically disadvantaged when there is no evidence any of those involved are.
They committed a crime, let them do the time.
But Mr Romney, That was not your argument originally. You said that
” Only juveniles (and at the age of 17 they are still juveniles in the
eyes of the law) that commit serious personal injury crimes are sent to
Mount View for holding until a hearing. Doesn’t matter if they are from
Capehart, that is the general policy.”
It is not the general policy. You were wrong, and you just are not adult enough top admit it.
You still (below) haven’t said you were wrong. You started the discussion, then prevaricated until it was meaningless. I hope your teachers are on to your line.
Yeah it is general policy. It is almost always better to place the alleged offender with their parents. You added to my list.
I personally know a juvenile fire starter that broke into a house and was present when a fire was started that consumed the property. Guess where he was placed? His parents.
This story is not about “low income” (one of your other posts) kids. It is not about your “Master thesis” (another one of your posts). Nor is it about where a child is sent for per-trial detention.
It is however about want three punks did to a house of worship and how that crime is easily classified as a hate crime. That information was provided in a response to yet another one of you posts.
If you cannot see what these “punks” did for what it is, I can only hope that you will someday lern right from wrong and what constitutes a hate crime vs. other crimes.
Mark seems that this BDN story, “Synagogue graffiti suspect, 17, arrested for third time in 3 days” tends to prove your “Children are sent to Mountain View or Long Creek if….” they are are “prone to running from insecure facilities, children who re-offend…” is not exactly accurate. It seems it took three times before the decision to send him to Mountain View.
http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2012/09/27/news/bangor/synagogue-graffiti-suspect-17-arrested-for-third-time-in-3-days/
Why is this not considered a hate crime?
If they are smart enough to connect these symbols with Judaism they are smart enough to know how offensive it is. It’s not like they just tagged the place with their name. They sought out a Temple and utilized a most offensive and hate filled symbol to deface it with. Sounds like a hate crime to me.
Is there any reason to think that they are mentality handicapped ?
When did how smart one is come to bear on a crime, otherwise ?
the punishment shoud fit the crime. It would be great if they had to attend services there for a year or two and help some of the elderly people out of their cars and listen to their stories.
Fifty-three years ago, at fourteen, I first learned of the Holocaust and the horror of man’s inhumanity to man never left me. No excuse for these 17 year olds. None. Along the way, someone forgot to teach them how to be human.
I’d charge these kids with a hate crime. maybe THEN they’ll grasp the severity of what they’ve done. By running out and defacing more public property after being released this kid has shown he doesn’t care about the consequences.
So, what is the proper charge? What is the proper sentence?
Sgt Edwards reports that the three boys were MOSTLY co-operative with Det Carr and many cases of graffiti will be cleared . Well thats good .So lets put a letter of appreciation in their file and give them a pat on the back.
To all of you that replied to my comments when this crime first happened. Those of you that gave me a ration of #$%^ because I said it was kids that did this… I say to you… I TOLD YOU SO!
Rev….I don’t care if it was “kids”, teenagers, adults or a senior citizen….it is STILL a hate crime.
That has nothing at all to do with my comment.
New-speak gobbledygook. This reinventing society (that we do every decade or so) is the reason that we’re all so lost-in-space. Crime is crime. Tell me this, is it called “hate crime” if these children go out and beat up an old white christian lady for her purse?
Teenagers have been doing this type of mischief since “civilized man” invented adolescence.
Call me an old-fashioned hard butt (can’t say the other word on here or you get censored) but it is my belief that teenagers should be in school, or at work 8 hours a day. Sitting around with their State supplied lap-tops, cell phones, or in front of the ceiling high TV set with 300 channels has obviously not been good for them. The BDN is constantly talking about obesity, A.D.H.D. and delinquency.
We had doggone little delinquency down this way when teenagers had to rake blueberries, cut fish, or dig potatoes in order to get their school clothing. You are not real hot-to-trot after a day of real hard work.
Unfortunately, this year (for the first time) Haitians raked our fields. Couldn’t get ONE local youth or adult to respond to our ads.
It was a hate crime. Spray painting symbols of a culture and government that were responsible for the murder of 7,000,000+ Jews for simply being a Jew on their houses of worship is a hate crime.
If someone attacks a white Christian woman because she is white and Christian and for no other reason then that too would be a hate crime.
By your logic the D.A. will have to prove that these children knew of the holocaust, were specifically targeting Jews, and had a history of this type of behavior. Just as you would have to prove that the black child who beat up the white Christian woman and took her purse did it because she was white and Christian, not for the money.
For someone with a “Masters” you don’t understand much.
“The perception of the victim or witness that the person, or the person’s property, was selected because of the victim’s race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, physical or mental disability or sexual orientation:
Written or spoken comments indicating a bias
Where and when the incident happened
Differences (e.g. racial, ethnic, etc…) between the victim and the perpetrator
Involvement by an organized hate group”
The above is from the Maine AGs office FAQ on Civil Rights.
So explain how spray painting emblem of Nazt Germany on a Jewish house of worship and no where else that night doesn’t fit the above definition.
Nowhere else? One of the children was rearrested for tagging a stop sign.
I can’t believe I’m arguing with someone who can’t read or comprehend.
The law (not the A.G.’s public relations FAQ) requires the people to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that the intent of these children was solely to terrorize victims. A good lawyer is all they need to beat the “hate crime” designation.
Where are the parents, the parents should have to clean the mess up, if they were out there scrubbing along side junior, you can bet your @ss that it would not happen again!
As Maine tax payers we can look forward to supporting these 3 children who will never amount to anything. I’m sure some day they will end up dead and family and friends will comment that they were actually good people with a good heart and were just misunderstood.
Foolish. How is a 17 year old out roaming the streets at 2:45 am committing ADULT crimes a child? If they had crayons, and were coloring, that’s a child’s act. In Europe, 16 is considered the dividing line. Are any of these so-called children enrolled in school? I rather doubt it.
Today I saw a middle aged man coming from services holding the hand of his bent over elderly father. Highly unlikely these kids came from that kind of family and community. That kind of misdirected rage doesn’t come from nowhere. I do not excuse this one iota, but they are still young. Hopefully they can come to truly understand the meaning and consequences of what they did, make real reparations and learn the human cost of what they did. This might be their opportunity to learn what it is to become good men.
Listen, this was done by ignorant kids. I call them kids not because of their age, but by their maturity level. They did it specifically to be offensive. It’s downtown Bangor. All of these kids think they’re “hard” and “gangster”, when really they’re just slumming it and being lazy. If anyone had any smarts, we’d quit state-funding people to breed a generation like this. In their minds, this is a joke. They’re becoming increasingly popular among their peers for being disrespectful. Yes, they should release their names-but what good would it do? In their minds they’re already famous. They’re PROUD of what they’ve done; they won’t stop doing it.
I completely agree. I highly doubt any of these kids really understand what the swastika means or what it represents. As far as being ‘hard’ and ‘gangster’ – they probably do believe that..but it’s laughable because they’re in Bangor..seriously…Bangor. Put them on the South Side of Chicago for 5 minutes..see how long they last.
Ok Now make them clean the mess. repay for any ancillary damage and write the congregation an apology note… If they don’t resist.
The idea that you can change people like this (no matter how young) is fatally flawed. These young people got their ideas from their parents, their peers, and their community.
I’ve never really understood the distinction “hate crime,” as there really isn’t such a thing as a “love crime.” No one beats someone up or vandalizes something to be nice.
That being said, they should make an example out of these kids. Make them repaint the buildings and then do yard work and odd jobs for the synagogues to pay for the paint and supplies. Maybe even have them shovel the walkways all winter while wearing some of those sandwich board signs that read, “I am a bigot.” Just really rub their noses in it.
If kids had to sign for spray paint, not too many would be buying it.