DENVER — In a showdown at close quarters, President Barack Obama and Republican Mitt Romney sparred aggressively in their first campaign debate Wednesday night over taxes, deficits and strong steps needed to create jobs in a sputtering national economy.
“The status quo is not going to cut it,” declared the challenger.
Obama in turn accused his rival of seeking to “double down” on economic policies that actually led to the devastating national downturn four years ago — and of evasiveness when it came to prescriptions for tax changes, health care, Wall Street regulation and more.
The economy dominated the evening, as it has the race for the White House all year. Pre-debate opinion polls showed Obama with a slight advantage in key battleground states and nationally.
With early voting already under way in dozens of states, Romney was particularly aggressive in the 90-minute event that drew a television audience likely to be counted in the tens of millions — like a man looking to shake up the campaign with a little less than five weeks to run.
The former Massachusetts governor virtually lectured Obama at one point after the president accused him of seeking to cut education funds. “Mr. President, you’re entitled to your own airplane and your own house, but not your own facts,” he said.
Romney said he had plans to fix the economy, overhaul the tax code, repeal Obama’s health care plan and replace with a better alternative, remake Medicare, pass a substitute for the legislation designed to prevent another financial crash and reduce deficits — but he provided no new specifics despite Obama’s prodding.
Said Obama: “At some point the American people have to ask themselves: Is the reason Governor Romney is keeping all these plans secret, is it because they’re going to be too good? Because middle-class families benefit too much? No.”
The two men debate twice more this month, but they were first going their separate ways on Thursday. Obama had campaign stops in Colorado and then Madison, Wis., while Romney was booked into Virginia. All three states are among the nine battlegrounds likely to settle the race.
At times the debate turned into rapid-fire charges and retorts that drew on dense facts and figures that were difficult to follow. The men argued over oil industry subsidies, federal spending as a percentage of the GDP, Medicare cuts, taxes and small businesses and the size of the federal deficit and how it grew.
Obama sometimes seemed somewhat professorial. Romney was more assertive and didn’t hesitate to interrupt the president or moderator Jim Lehrer.
Despite the wonky tone of the debate, Romney managed to make some points by personalizing his comments with recollections of people he said he had met on the campaign trail. In another folksy reference, Romney told Lehrer, a veteran of the Public Broadcasting Service, that he would stop the federal subsidy to PBS even though “I love Big Bird.”
Generally polite but pointed, the two men agreed about little if anything.
Obama said his opponent’s plan to reduce all tax rates by 20 percent would cost $5 trillion and benefit the wealthy at the expense of middle income taxpayers.
Shot back Romney: “Virtually everything he just said about my tax plan is inaccurate.”
The former Massachusetts governor and businessman added that Obama’s proposal to allow the expiration of tax cuts on upper-level income would mean tax increases on small businesses that create jobs by the hundreds of thousands.
The two campaign rivals clasped hands and smiled as they strode onto the debate stage at the University of Denver, then waved to the audience before taking their places behind identical lecterns.
There was a quick moment of laughter, when Obama referred to first lady Michelle Obama as “sweetie” and noted it was their 20th anniversary.
Romney added best wishes, and said to the first couple, “I’m sure this is the most romantic place you could imagine, here with me.”
Both candidates’ wives were in the audience.
Without saying so, the two rivals quickly got to the crux of their race — Romney’s eagerness to turn the contest into a referendum on the past four years while the incumbent desires for voters to choose between his plan for the next four years and the one his rival backs.
Romney ticked off the dreary economic facts of life — a sharp spike in food stamps, economic growth “lower this year than last” and “23 million people out of work or stopped looking for work.”
But Obama criticized Romney’s prescriptions and his refusal to raise taxes and said, “if you take such an unbalanced approach then that means you are going to be gutting our investment in schools and education … health care for seniors in nursing homes (and) for kids with disabilities.”
Not surprisingly, the two men disagreed over Medicare, a flash point since Romney placed Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan on his ticket.
The president repeatedly described Romney’s plan as a “voucher program” that would raise out-of-pocket costs on seniors.
He continued, directly addressing the voters at home: “If you’re 54 or 55 you might want to listen because this will affect you.”
Romney said he doesn’t support any changes for current retirees or those close to retirement.
“If you’re 60 or 60 and older you don’t need to listen further,” he said, but he contended that fundamental changes are needed to prevent the system from becoming insolvent as millions of baby boom generation Americans become eligible.
Romney also made a detailed case for repealing Obamacare, the name attached to the health care plan that Obama pushed through Congress in 2010. “It has killed jobs,” he said, and argued that the best approach is to “do what we did in my state.”
Though he didn’t say so, when he was governor Massachusetts passed legislation that required residents to purchase coverage — the so-called individual mandate that conservatives and he oppose on a national level.
Romney also said that Obamacare would cut $716 billion from Medicare over the next decade.
The president said the changes were part of a plan to lengthen the program’s life, and he added that AARP, the seniors lobby, supports it.
With a two-minute closing statement, Obama said he had spent his first four years in office fighting for those in the middle class and those seeking to make it there. “If you’ll vote for me, I’ll fight just as hard in my second term,” he said.
Romney was as critical of Obama’s tenure as he was the moment the two men walked onto the stage.
If the president is re-elected, he predicted continued economic trouble for the middle class, chronic unemployment, higher costs for health insurance and “dramatic cuts to the military.”
Obama took office in the shadow of an economic crisis but promised a turnaround that hasn’t materialized. Economic growth has been sluggish throughout his term, with unemployment above 8 percent since before he took office.
The customary security blended with a festival-like atmosphere in the surrounding area on a warm and sunny day. The Lumineers performed for free, and Black Eyed Peas frontman will.i.am delivered a pep talk of sorts to Obama’s supporters. School officials arranged to show the debate on monitors outside the hall for those without tickets.
There was local political theater, too, including female Romney supporters wearing short shorts and holding signs that said, “What War On Women?” — a rebuttal to claims by Obama and the Democrats.
The two presidential rivals also are scheduled to debate on Oct. 16 in Hempstead, N.Y., and Oct. 22 in Boca Raton, Fla.
Vice President Joe Biden and Republican Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin have one debate, Oct. 11 in Danville, Ky. Both men have already begun holding practice sessions.
___
Associated Press writer Kristen Wyatt contributed to this story. David Espo reported from Washington.



That was a lot of flip flopping from the Etch-a-Sketch!
You didn’t watch the same debate I did.
Yes, I did. There were so many brand new things coming out of Romney’s mouth, it was like a brand new candidate entirely. Massive tax cuts were the core of his plan for months and months, even his website says 20% cuts to marginal rates — I watched the debate last night and I know he said nothing about that, in fact, he there weren’t going to be massive tax cuts (or massive budget cuts) and that billions in deductions would be gone. He’s been saying he’d do away with pell grants and now suddenly, he changed his position on that too. It was a mile a minute with the new positions.
He doesn’t have a real plan unless you can somehow believe that cutting PBS is going to pay for all these things.
You sound a little tense. Rough sleeping night after that debate?
Sounds like you don’t have a real response, so you’re dodging. What else is new though.
I will respond to your comments when you are not so dismissive of mine.
I asked you a question the other day and you just changed the subject. I told you where to find the answer as I didn’t know myself specifically — I’m not the lawyer in their case and I didn’t write the argument. If you really want an answer about the union’s property, then you would go find it from a better source than me. Seems more like you’re interested in arguing and scoring little points than you are in the actual substance of the matter.
And all that doesn’t excuse you here. It doesn’t excuse Romney who was literally a different candidate last night. I don’t know how any honest person could deny that much of what he was saying was both brand new and contradictory towards what he has been saying all along.
Maybe I answered but it just wasn’t the answer you wanted to hear.
Just like Romney refusing to be defined by Obama and so then you call his positions “brand new and contradictory” because its all you have left.
I pointed to specific examples and you’re ignoring them. That’s not answering the question that’s dodging. You have nothing and that’s why you have to resort to changing the subject and dodging — it’s obvious and it’s pathetic.
I gave my answer. You just didn’t like it.
I believe Romney was not going to let Obama define him. That sounds Presidential. I think that bothers you.
Romney has defined himself and I pointed to very specific examples of how he defined himself last night contradicts how he has defined himself just a month before. That’s not Presidential. That’s being a liar.
News flash. Romney is a politician. Of course he lies. Just spare us your pretending that Obama doesnt.
A little dab of Preparation H should help you forget the debate and turn that frown upside down.
I stinks going to bed in a bad mood because you usually wake up the same way… Your wise knowledge is a plus among us…Keeping us informed with the truth makes the comment section worth reading…
I’m in a good mood this morning….can’t wait for F. F…….
Yes tomorrow is Freaky Friday here at the BDN…
Cutting PBS is a good start. Don’t worry your little brain, another station will pic up Sesame Street.
It might do you some good to watch Sesame Street.Maybe you could spell “pick”then.
PBS can go to commercial ads and be just
fine—and SHOULD. Their 10 minutes out of every hour that advertises there own
shows and sponsors, coupled with three to four MONTHS a year in telethons, lead
me to believe we’d have LESS interruptions if they went commercial. Oh—and I left an inappropriate word for you to find. Can you find Waldo??
Yes I did-and that was too easy.I will absolutely agree the telethons are annoying but the amount of federal support they get is FAR less than conservatives think.They just can’t stand the thought of someone else learning something.What they do provide is priceless given the amount of money the do have.
I will absolutely agree with you that there is some great programming on PBS that would be ashamed to loose. You did sort of beat yourself up though, when you expressed that they get far less support than some may think. For that reason they shouldn’t miss it if it goes. And perhaps, because it is such a small amount, it was a bad example for Romney to use too. His point was that “borrowing money from China” would be a litmus test for things we don’t really need. If given a choice between supporting PBS, or buy some body armor for our troops, I’d vote for the armor. I have to believe that you would too. But the big picture is that we HAVE to make cuts. And if you let one person get their foot in the door—then suddenly there is another foot and another and another until NOTHING has changed. Romney is just suggesting….”When you are about to loose your home, you don’t borrow money to go to Disney World.”
The problem is the bigger and richer the industry,the better paid are the lobbyists.Case in point-conservatives said that 20% or more of our money is for foreign aid.The true number is less than a quarter of that.I think most people would take a hit if they thought the pain was being equally shared.PBS and the other idiotic culture war issues have taken up far too much time since the 1980s and Ralph Reed’s thugs.
I hear what you say and can certainly understand some of your thinking. There are just waaay too many directions to go with all of these thoughts. So I will just close with two of my own. First I feel that the real problem in our society is “moral decay.” Too many people no longer care about people they have to step on to reach the top. The popular words are…”What’s in it for me.” Second I would disagree with your thoughts that people are willing to “take a hit if they thought the pain was being equally shared.” I don’t believe there has to be an “equal” sharing of pain. Many people put themselves into bad situations by their own choices. In the past, they would see people around them doing better and be motivated to climb out of their hole. Sadly they have discovered that they can feel just as good by dragging others into the hole with them. Again, a moral decay issue. I DON’T want to share someone else’s pain. And I will be glad to help people that I clearly see need it–and not have the government allocate my money to who THEY think needs it.
Your points about stepping on others are well made.That is something that is glorified to a ridiculous extent,especially with the “bling culture”.Who needs a $50K watch or nine houses?
The other separate point that nobody seems to care about is(for one example)mental disability SSDI.If every case under age 40 was scrupulously re-examined the savings would be in the multibillions.Yet nobody seems to care-keep in mind the highly paid pros that depend on that crowd for a big part of their income.They have patients who will cause them no trouble.Obama is going after Medicaid/Medicare fraud which is a start.There’s still a lot more to do.
The “bad situations”statement is also true.I know someone who’s involved with a professional victim.He thought he would be able to improve her situation-which almost never works.WRONG.He is now going downhill with her since she’s taught him the ropes.I try to limit my interactions with them now.SAD.
I hear what you say but fear that you have bought into class envy. My point of “stepping on others” encompassed ALL people—from poor to rich. Funny how you related it ONLY to the rich. Don’t you see–this is how governments are transformed. This is not about Obama helping people. This is “Divide and conquer”, as well spelled out in any socialist writings. Try to think “neutral” for just a moment. People who buy 50K watches have egos. So what! I bet you have purchased something that you were overly proud of before too. What’s wrong with buying a 50k watch? There are a lot of jobs created, that go into making that watch. Are there some crummy rich people? Sure there are. Are there some really kind rich people? Of COURSE there are!! The good and bad are there in ALL classes! There will always be egos. There will always be envy. Should the ugly hate the handsome, the handicapped hate the athletes, the tall hate the short, the short hate the tall, the underachievers hate the overachievers? Where does it end? Obama has done his job well!! He has taught you to hate people that have more—and worse—that you don’t even know. And to answer why government doesn’t investigate more SSDI for fraud—it’s because THEY DON’T WANT TOO. The more people “on the system”, the more they control. I too see people that have easily gotten it. In the Debate Obama said they had saved 50 billion of Medicare fraud. Other times they have said the 716 billion they took from Medicare was saved from fraud. They haven’t had enough time to save a penny—nor have they tried to. If they had, it would have been all over the news during the past year and example after example would have been shown. These are just “feel good words” that are uttered by Obama to fool you. Pleeeeease see the other side of the coin. You are being manipulated!
Romney is an Artist at Making up new stuff as he goes along, the trouble is that none of it has any credibility!
You can act fresh, inteligent, witty and wise but when its all over it can be checked against what he has said in the past and the facts and the whole Magic act / house of cards comes tumbling down!
You can tell when a candidate has been beaten bloody….. their supporters like you make comments like that.
You can tell someone doesn’t have a real argument when they change the subject.
Thats funny. I debated you a long time ago and thats all you did was change the subject. Hypocrisy…the bastion of liberalism
Oh my god, just like your candidate, the things you say have no basis in reality. Call the grass blue all you want, but it doesn’t make it so.
http://www.bluegrasses.com/images/s-bluegrass/midnight-kbg.jpg
First off hes not my candidate…second…are you changing the subject? Wierd
Comment removed……
Liars have an edge,
Until they go over it!
You are referring to bamaphone
Hey He is not from Alabama, at least he has never said so, even if he can fake the accent.
You are correct, their candidate got a whooping, but they still come up with something… Grasping at straws..
It’s true!
Romney talked Circles Around Obama!
Thats what he does !
Talk in Circles!
Anybody who has read any of my posts knows that I don’t support either candidate, but it just grinds me when I see a comment like yours that calls out Romney, but lets Obama off the hook (and you’re not the only one). Just do a Google search on Obama’s list of broken promises. Some of his promises he had no business making because they weren’t completely in his control. but many were. I’m just totally baffled by blind partisanship, regardless of ideology.
Anyone who believes in Promises in a System, designed so heavily in Checks and Balances to exclude Tyrants from having complete control should only be dissapointed in his own assumption that these where —–Promises!
The Mans Charactor / Accomplisments and Intent are the only qualifying factors to be considered for the job!
Romney only has Accomplishments in increasing his and his cohorts bank accounts!
He has NO charactor as it is subject to change at any moment!
His Intent is clear!
Support the 1 % at all costs , Take the Money and Run and hide in foriegn accounts for the best profit Margin!
How’s that blind partisanship working out for ya?
Great!
It gives me 20 20 Vision even with my eyes closed shut!
What’s the matter, didn’t get the Obama thrill going up your leg?
What’s the matter, can’t respond without changing the subject? You honestly think that Romney has been consistent in his statements over the past few months?
I don’t know whether he has or hasn’t, and to be honest with you, I don’t care because I don’t vote. I’m a small, limited government guy. Obama has shown that he is another in a long line of American imperialist presidents, and Romney would be more of the same. Neither have any regard for the lives of our young service men who are being sent to the slaughter for a cause that is none of our business. Obama has shown that he will authorize the use of drone strikes that not only take out terrorists, but innocent civilians as well. Again, Romney would be more of the same. I say good luck to all of you jackwagons who will support this type of activity. America has much blood on her hands and will be made to answer for it some day.
That’s fine, but don’t get lazy and dismiss the criticisms of others. I think pointing out how inconsistent Mitt has been is legitimate, as are your concerns. Screaming that the President wasn’t born here or acting like somehow he’s the first person to use a teleprompter on the other hand? Not exactly legit complaints.
I’m disappointed that you don’t vote.That said I wanted to see the same thing in the debates-the focus on our wounded warriors and the real things Americans care about.A young man from Maine lost his life overseas this week.His name could’ve been mentioned.Instead his family weeps alone.
I used to vote, but I found that I was always voting against somebody rather than for somebody. It’s this repetition of voting for the lesser of two evils that has gotten us into the mess we’re in, so I just can’t do it anymore. Unfortunately, there are so many people now who are not principled, and do not have an understanding of how our government is supposed to work according to the U.S. Constitution. I’m not even a big fan of our constitution, but it is the supreme law of the land (or is supposed to be), so I try to get behind candidates who will really support it and not just pay it lip service. Ron Paul is the closest to that type of candidate, but he doesn’t arouse that American Idol type of interest that the voting public seems to want. We’re toast. Just going to try and hang on now.
You have been getting the trickle down thrill down yours?
?????
Well, one debate down and time for the critics to boast on their respective candidate and claim victory….good debate in my opinion and civil behavior each with the other….my only criticism is that the moderator Mr. Lehrer did not do his job in keeping the time restrictions and allowed too much time being spent on limited topics without moving onto more topics and questions……
That is true-and this isn’t Lehrer’s first go round.I’d like to see the candidates penalized when they go over by losing time on the next answer.I was on a state championship debate team and time limits were STRICTLY enforced.
Exactly and agree….this type of moderator debate, as you well know from experience, involves speaking to the topic at issue without straying from said topic to make one’s point within restricted time limits…..last night’s “debate” seemed more like a town hall type of conversation rather than a debate…..Mr. Lehrer in my opinion failed last evening….
Couldn’t agree more, Pab!! Good observations!
A great debate, though the President was not as aggressive as his opponent these debates aren’t about aggressive behavior, they’re about facts. The President allowed Romney to play his hand of ever changing cards, forcing Romney to extemporaneously edit the proposals he’s suggesting if elected.
Little Romney said bore any resemblance to his previously ever changing reality he wishes to foist on us. I think instead of “Flipper” a better descriptor for him is “The Sandman”
Donkie or Jackass?
Camdem or Condon?
????
Obama EMPTY SUIT….
POTUS needed his TOTUS.
A clear win for Romney…Obuma looked tired and acted like he didn’t want to be there..Up next Bumbling Biden versus the Boy Genius Ryan…Will there be a Mercy Rule ??? LOL…
I wouldn’t be too sure.Biden has been around a long time and is politically savvy.Ryan might be getting a swelled head.Has Biden said some dumb things?Sure-we all have.But my money is on Joe.
Joe (I voted against the Alaska oil pipeline) Biden. What a joke he is.
Joe means well, he sometimes says the wrong thing….
Has Biden said some dumb things?
The more accurate question is what’s the next dumb thing Biden will say – because with him, it could happen anytime.
The public got to see the true Mitt Romney tonight. He was respectful, funny, educated on the issues and very passionate. He also presented many ideas on how he plans to strengthen the economy.
Oh I almost forgot, he also mopped the floor with Obama. It’s been a while since anyone has been able to talk to the President like that. It’s about time.
Romney 1
Obama 0
I think Ed Shultz said it best: “Romney looks like he wants to be President, Obama doesn’t.”
Obama wants to be golfing or balling. He likes the perks, but not the responsibility. Who woulda thunk it?
I think that statement was spot on. Romney had fire in his belly, Obama looked like he was tired and needed a nap. I don’t believe a word coming out of either of their mouths, but at least Romney came prepared. Dreadful performance by Obama.
You hit the nail on the head.
If that debate had lasted another 15 minutes, Obama would be voting for Romney.
LOL!
> Romney had fire in his belly …
And if not outright lies on his lips, then a whole new set of policies than got him the GOTea nomination.
How’s that going to play with all the no compromise TEA Congressman that his coattails drag to Washington, and relative to all that bipartisanship that he learned in the rarefied atmosphere of too damned liberal Boston.
Vote Romney, and straight GOTea Party, because the opposition is build in.
He won the side show and has thrilled those who love him anyway, like good a boy should, but he strained himself to do it.
Does he really not know how to get a tax break for shipping factories offshore ?
So, all I’m ready sure about what he will do is kill Big Bird and not cut military spending, even as two wars wind up.
I agree that Mr. Romney handled himself more deftly than did President Obama. But this was mostly due to Mr. Romney’s etch-a-sketch campaign strategy.
He tailors his positions to his audience.
The McCain – Obama elctoral map of four years ago today matches today’s Romney – Obama map exactly.
“The True Mitt Romney!”
There ain’t No such Thing ,
LOL
Do you really want to compare the ‘true’ Romney with the ‘true’ Barack Hussein Barry Sotero Obama??
At least Romney didn’t resort to name aleration.
How do you Know?
His familiy was exiled to Mexico only to be exiled back to the United States only to hide his Money in the Cayman Islands!
It’s no wonder that he and the Bush’s call the US the —-Homeland!
Check out the Selling to the Enemy act during WW 2 that targeted the Bush’s Family for selling to Hitler!
Pssst. Bush isnt president anymore.
His disaster is still with us!
Pssst. The legacy lives on with Mitt!
Sure !
They say that Obama was Born in Kenya!
They say that Romney has a Hidden Bank Account there!
LOL
Romney’s enthusiasm for the fight hasn’t been so apparent since the episode in prep school when he pinned a suspected gay classmate to the floor to cut his hair!
Like when obama was running with terrorist like Bill (mad bomber) aiers, or rev. jerimia(we deserved 911) wright?
If you’re going to parrot Fox,the least you could do is learn to spell.You’ve obviously not studied anything.
Parrot Fox? What a laugh that is. You Libs follow CNN like it was your Bible. Give it a break. Kettle, you’re black!
Not only are you wrong,you didn’t address my point.Nothing new there.
you could see the shock on the CNN anchors faces
Maybe his spelling isn’t great but his point is right on!
We know his spin from his handle.
Like knowing the lion by his claw?
you sound angry because Obama looked bad.
Not angry,just pointing out simple irrefutable facts.
The “Thoughtpolice” have corrupted that one!
Obama Kills Terrorist!
Or haven’t you noticed!
The Last President Flew them out of the Country on a Lear Jet,– First Class with Champagne and Caviar !
Obama didn’t kill anybody. He only gave the nod to all those that did the real work. And about that Lear jet, caviar and champagne…..Obama is playing you and your type like a fiddle and you don’t even know it.
He also assasinates Americans without trial using drone strikes…I guess thats ok with you leftist, I have no problem with it.
Spoken like a true loser!
You are correct, Obama was out of his league on this debate….
Obama embarrassed the left last night..
Sorry Bush, while i agree on you with more and more things lately, this wont be one of them. I do believe that Romney won the debate, but I also believe that Obama’s strategy is to wait it out till the final couple of debates and see how many times Romney goes back and forth talking out of both sides of his mouth. Romney talked as if he had a lot of great ideas that will change the country. Unfortunately he never mentioned HOW he was going to do any of the things he mentioned. Anyone from Massachusetts know this Mitt very very well. I happen to be from Mass. and he was supposed to really change that state around, and well…They dont call it Taxachusetts for nothing…but good luck my friend, looks like our votes will cancel each other out:)
Well I have been waiting the last 4 years for Obama’s strategy, and the only thing it has done is raise the deficit, and continue to get our soldiers killed.
I guess that you missed the US Survival of the Second Great Depression brought to You by—- you guessed It!!
The Grand Old Party!
I’m sorry – who held power in Congress the last two years of the Bush presidency, when everything unraveled?
Hint – their party affiliation begins with “D” and ends with “rat.”
Who held the Veto Pen?
You talking about the deficit brought you by Obama or you talking about those who were dragging a United States Amabassador through the streets? Reminds me of another Demcorat that let them drag our soliders through the streets.
What was gas when Bush left office wasn’t it around 2.00 interesting now it is around 4.00. Doubled the gas prices, doubled the deficit or is that tripled the deficit.
Hard to change a state controlled by liberals, look how hard it is this state
President Obama has had a complicit media to aid him, sycophants to coddle him and adoring celebs to fete him. When he really has to answer for himself without the bubble he failed BIG TIME.
The guy is a joke, time for us to move on to real leadership.
Maybe your right !
But Romney will only lead you to the quicksand!
Tax cuts… push on !
Pete Seeger: Waist Deep in the Big Muddy –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXnJVkEX8O4
Does ObamaCare cover a good butt kicking?
Oh please! He was nothing but a bully!!
November 6 is going to be National Leadership Upgrade Day, when Americans elect Mitt Romney.
A slight correction to your personal contest is in order.
Romney 0
Obama 0
Clint Eastwood was right about Obama.
Clint Eastwood is a Senile Old Fool that talks to Chairs!
don’t know what eastwood said buttt i have every moveie clint has done in my collection lol
WRITE IN RON PAUL!
It’s True!
Romney talked circles around Obama!
Thats what he does!
Talk in circles!
> The public got to see the true Mitt Romney tonight…
… bullying Bill Lehrer for disrupting his over rehearsed snake oil medicine show ?
Romney was at a distinct disadvantage!
He had TWO people to debate against!
Obama and ” HIMSELF” !
Face it Dlbrt, Obama really did a terrible job on the debate, just like his presidency. One and out for Obama.
It was a Three man DDebate and Obama got pushed to the rear by Romney and the other Romney!
Face it Dlbrt, Obama really did a terrible job on the debate, just like his presidency. One and out for Obama.
Lets Face it!
Romney is all Smoke and Mirrors!
Believing in Magic over Reality Mesmerised you didn’t it!
Take a deep breath, its tough being you today but hang in there, better days are coming once President Romney takes the oath of office.
Dlbrt does seem a little on edge today…
I ran out of Coffee!
What you dont understand is that I really dont care who won the Debate, I do feel sorry, however for those who can’t grasp the reality that the Republican Mantra is Smoke and Mirrors for an America where the Money “All” go’s to the Top and opportunity is held back for those without the whealth!
This country’s soveriegnty is being stolen by global corporations whose only purpose is profit driven, The game is rigged and Romney Want’s to be the Rigger!
If Romney wins , when the dust clears and we at at War in Iran for Exon / Chevron and China will be useing the proceeds from their junk sold at wal-mart from their communist slave labor camps to build their army against the rest of the world for communist expansion, come back and tell me again who won the Debate!
Yeah, the Myans May Be Right!
The world is about to be destroyed!
I think you meant Obama and the media. The media has protected Obama since day one. But it’s a little harder to edit live tv for Obama talking points or misrepresent a statement or facts to make his opponent look bad. Obama media machine has never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
I think you meant Obama and the media. The media has protected Obama since day one. But it’s a little harder to edit live tv for Obama talking points or misrepresent a statement or facts to make his opponent look bad. Obama media machine has never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Do you guys ever take responsibility for yourselves? It’s always someone else’s fault. The media! The media! Grow up.
Gow up, grow up? Get your head out of your butt and face reality.
It’s not reality to blame everyone else for your own shortcomings. Reality is having some personal responsibility.
I agree…so you think Obama should stop blaming bush right?
GW is to blame…..LOL
Not the media…
I think it was Bush’s fault…
Yeah and I think ACORN caused McCain to lose.
You could be on to something.
Is that like Obama saying “its bushs fault…its bushs fault’?
The funny thing is the confidence that Obama Had in 2008 has been replaced with the Reality that —-Washington is Broken.
Romney Really doesn’t really care !
It’s Broken Just the way that he wants so as to make a buck off from the chaos!
Finally you made sense. Yes Washington is broke, and yes, people are fooling themselves if they think mitt will fix it. I was merely asking about responsibility from someone who supports the guy who blames bush for all his own shortcomings
Precisely grumpy!
LOL!! Funniest post in ages!
and yet he still beat obama…doesnt speak well for your guy
Even the libbers couldn’t defend a brutal and incompetent performance by this pres. Just like his presidency…empty. It was sickening to listen to MSNBC. Chris Mathews should have sent Obama a teleprompter to strap to his leg.
OK, this independent objects to your “brutal” evaluation. Form over substance? Not an appropriate evaluation of a presidential candidate.
BTW, “From the claw, you know the lion or “By the claw the lion is revealed.
I resent that comment which by the way, smacks of desperation.
It’s soon to be a new good morning in America.
I’ll clean it up!
You would be tired also, fighting 4 years against a bunch of Money and Lies!
that is true the last 4 years of empty promises.
OK folks, let’s deliver the District 2 electoral vote for Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. It’s a new good morning in Maine and America.
obama was, to no surprise, lost without his teleprompter. Truth prevailed, it was a good night for our country.
Oh really? I think he does great without a prompter. Truth? debatable (pun intended, that’ what they’ll be doing.
Even the pro Obama press has said that Romney did better and while some of what he said wasnt the “truth”, accordingto them, his numbers added up unlike Obama’s “truth”, again according to them.
Let’s ‘HOPE’ obama does as well in the election as he has done without his teleprompter.
Whew! The wingnuts have really flooded these comments, haven’t they!
But hey, who can blame ’em. After all, this is the first time in the entire campaign that they’ve had any reason be at all enthusiastic about their candidate.
Romney seemed desperate. Obama seemed impatient. Gary Johnson seemed invisible.
Romney, was a drama queen very staged. He had a job to do, get the 47% to listen to what he had to say.
Right, tell the 47% that he isn’t going to cut taxes, isn’t going to cut Medicare, and isn’t going to change Obamacare or Social Security. Basically deny everything he said he was going to do up until he opened his mouth during the debate.
I’m not thrilled with either one of them. It should bother every single American that there were only TWO people on that stage last night. A Democrat and a Republican. The same two parties that are responsible for driving our economy into the ditch and fiddling while Rome burns. A vote for either party candidate is just asking for more of the same. Thank you sir, may I have another. I intend to break away from the rest of the sheep and “waste” my vote on Gary Johnson, the Libertarian from New Mexico.
Watch Maddow if you want to see Johnson’s campaign ads.They’re probably on YouTube as well or his campaign website.I don’t agree with all of Johnson’s policies but he’s worth a listen.
If you have to get your Johnson news from Maddow, then he’s a liberal nor a libertarian.
It’s not news about Johnson,it’s his ads.It’s obvious you can’t tell the difference.
Actually, until last night I was unsure about Romney but now I am totally comfortable with that ticket. Finally a chance to elect real leadership.
By casting a vote for either of the two major parties you are just asking for more of the same. Both major parties are bought and payed for by big business, big money, and special interest groups. We need a candidate that is only beholden to the average American.
So, are you voting for Roseanne??
We need a grass roots overhaul of the system.
One man can’t do it alone!
And we Don’t need the Tea Party Anti Tax , Me first Ayn Rand Mentality in there!
Im going to wait until after the final debate to make my decision who I vote for, I do admitt that Mr. Romney looked very good.
Do you think the things Romney proposed last night matched what he has been proposing these past few months? Do you think what he is proposing now is even possible (like repealing Obamacare but keeping the good expensive parts in place like no denial for pre-existing conditions)?
Obama care never should of been rushed through, I totally agree medical insurance is a big issue….These people should of sat down and come up with something worth while like maybe Tricare type of deal.. Everyone should have to pay into it……
But that’s not the point. Romney made some pretty explicit promises in terms of healthcare, but he refused to explain how they would be paid for. Do you really think it is possible to require insurance companies to cover those with pre-existing conditions without seeing prices spike? Won’t people just wait until they’re sick and then get coverage?
Romney said a lot of things that sounded great last night, but if you pause and consider the implications, most of what he was saying just isn’t possible.
Oh I agree, he did say a lot of things that sounded good, especially to someone that doesnt really know what he is talking about, people have to do thier research and not believe what both of these guys say…They are politicians..
I am going to run to the Town hall and vote a full Democrat ticket ( absentee ) before the Republicans Pass a Law that Democrats can’t Vote!
Thats the most Phony Statement you have ever made!
You are so far Right that your ship is got a permanent Starboard Drift!!!
You couldn’t Make it to Shore in America from London without crashing into GreenLAND!
LOL!
C’mon, you didn’t watch, did you?
I watched. Only with a passing interest. I intend to vote Libertarian. Voting Democrat or Republican is just asking for more of the same.
Just imagine how bad that bonehead Biden is going to do against Ryan, It’s not even fair to let those two debate.
Obama= Carter 2.0
Its true!
Just like the last time , a Democrat spent four years trying to clean up the Republican Mess and because the downtrodden became impatient a Republican Swept in for the credit, only to set the stage for the next mess!
Last night it the POTUS vs. Romney Version 47.0
Obama didnt instill any confidence in me that the next 4 years will be
any better than the last 4.
Bank giveaways, fraudulent loans schemes,high unemployment numbers, energy prices climbing steadily and massive increase in social services dont show me
we have moved forward or made much progress since Obama took office.
Contrary to an incorrect public opinion of The President , he is not a gifted speaker at all.
Never has been.
I felt he gave a fairly lame performance , over all.
Maybe a few rounds of golf will help sharpen him up.
There isn’t any part of a stimulus program that someone has as yet not to figure out how to pocket the change… The concept of collective is simply me first. Then, blame him. Instead of building on initiatives that 1603 Federal Grants were meant to form. Where in regard to alternative energy groups more progress should have been made had they worked to pool resources. Some chose simply to file Chapter 11 without owning up to what they said they could provide.
The difference the electorate set out to make in 08′ is always what Pres.O has stood for. Principled, truthful and good natured, pleasant . In contrast to the political body of absolute malaise, “the mess” or, “Big Bird” that doesn’t do well enough to prove any point other than to obstruct the progress others are trying to make. Devastating the economic terms that enrich people’s quality of life. Breaking promises. Breaking dreams…
where were you last night when Obama needed help….. You should of been the one on the stage debating…….
You’re pretty soft and cuddly about the outgoing POTUS aren’t you?
You elect people to office. Berate them and laugh all the way to the bank.
Lepage, or Obama? It does not matter the party affiliation or otherwise.
It’s simply, ‘me first.’
Obama does not stand for ANYTHING honest, principled or pleasant. All he really cares about is self agrandisement and the debasement of the US.
No. It’s about accountability. Companies failed and the American people paid. Companies that took/received federal funds to build out alternative energy and simply banked the money. Walked away leaving their stockholders nothing.
Stimulus funding that added up to nothing more than a billboard along a highway stating ‘American Recovery Act” Case after case, of deliberate pandering and mismanagement of billions of dollars in fed funds to secure America’s energy future funneled to selfless loathing autocrats that shifted their own faults to none less than than the President of the United States. For that, Obama stated he will maintain the effort to continue down the road to a secure and safe environment harboring alternative energy initiatives. We should all hope for the best. Romney simply stated it was $98B up in smoke, but surely as disappointed seeing how several failures originated in Massachusetts. Evergreen solar, and Beacon power to name the first two. One company in Massachusetts did secure a $500m contract to build the massive coils for wind turbine farms in China.
Blaming anyone for an economic crisis for the name of their own cause is not going to solve the problem of sustainability. What’s worse is ragging on the millions of people that did elect Obama. You make no sense whatsoever to criticize the electorate for electing the candidate of their own choosing.
I did not say any darn thing about those that bought into Obama’s hope and change I spoke about Obama’s lack of honesty. There was no judgement of you or anyone but Obama.
Ok then. People seemed let down they can’t trust others to make the right decisions. That’s my only point is to live up and meet the expectation of making and keeping priority’s as much a safeguard as we all have to in our own ways be fair.
You have a plethora of great information, keep up the great posts…
Hasn’t worked so far……….
I never thought I would see a united states president take a spanking on live television….ouch!
Get your mind out of the gutter.
He did get metaphorically spanked. Its your mind in the gutter.
Really. Romney reversed all of his own positions. Which by your gutter way of thinking means he metaphorically stuck his head up his own butt.
You are a pretty crude person.
And wrong as usual.
“You are a pretty crude person.”
Projecting again, Cheese? You cons do that a lot, don’t you?
Did not Netanyahu give him one months ago? Maybe “virtual” corporal punishment does not work.
Watch the Kennedy Nixon Debates!
> ….ouch!
Remember George Foreman and how to rope a dope ?
While the faithful are high fiving , here, any real undecided votes in the swing States
are reading the fact check pages, too.
That’s not going to be good for Mitt.
I can only say losing hurts, and I even went to CNN from fox and listened to their commentary after the debate to get the democratic spin only to hear how bad Obama lost. And the fact check poles have showed very little discrepancy in what romney stated. Obama lost because he didn’t have the media to protect him or his teleprompter. Obama has had a pass and this time he does not.. will he win…probably but not by his own merit….but the media will not let their baby fail…..he looked pitiful :( on stage I truly felt sad for his family watching this disgraceful man stand their and get beaten so bad….I was embarassed for him…and not happy to see him look so sad and pitiful without the safeguards of the media that got him elected and his teleprompter …….good luck next time Mr prez
You seem to think the liberal medias production decided something.
Mitt got round one on style, with replacement refs, but did he land any damaging punches, really ?
Romney was on fire on the relatively hot medium of TV, bully for him.
(Ask Big Bird and Bill Lehrer what a bully good time they had. I like ya, but if I’m elected you’re fired…. I’m all about creating jobs. )
So Bangor, do you think any undecided voter in a swing State who wondered who is right, the POTUS or Romney will not just go Google it and find this :
OBAMA: … I also want to close those loopholes that are giving incentives for companies that are shipping jobs overseas. I want to provide tax breaks for companies that are investing here in the United States
ROMNEY: … you said you get a deduction for taking a plant overseas. Look, I’ve been in business for 25 years. I have no idea what you’re talking about. I maybe need to get a new accountant. But — but the idea that you get a break for shipping jobs overseas is simply not the case.
Obama wins this round.
Romney’s recently released tax returns made it clear that he and his accountant are quite familiar with navigating the tax code. Romney should know that the law currently allows a company that closes its American plant and moves manufacturing operations overseas to deduct that moving expense.
The New York Times says, “It is true.”
Reuters writes that there really are “deductions allowed for a company if it closes its plant in the United States and moves it to another country.”
The conservative Boston Herald declared it a “huge gaffe.”
Even Fox News’s fact check admits, “Technically, companies can claim a deduction for the costs associated with moving jobs overseas.”
In fact, Senate Republicans recently blocked a Democratic bill that would have provided a tax credit to companies that move jobs back to the United States and ended a tax break for companies moving operations overseas.
Remember Joe Frazier blocking Ali’s Punches with his head?
LOL
PBS should totally get a job.
We must save bigbird!!!!!
I think we need a comment from PETA…..maybe the girls protesting in that yellow attire as in previous times……
Good idea………
Is it just me or did the people on the right miss that Romney said he wasn’t going to cut taxes?
Yes he did say that
He also said he wouldn’t cut Medicare for “current retirees.”. (no need to read between the lines there.). And that he wouldn’t change anything about Obamacare or Social Security. Sounds to me like he has ditched the GOP platform.
Or to be more precise, he said he never said he would “reduce revenue.”
According to the Norquist pledge, getting rid of deductions counts as raising taxes — so he’s going to raise them essentially.
His plan will be the second biggest Whealth Redistrtbution Theft in History!
The First Being Reagan Trickle Down !
His Idea of Eliminating Deductions for the Revenue increase to offset the lowering of Taxes on the Richest will effect every home owner Mortgage Deduction.
Getting rid of deductions is a drop in the bucket for the 1%. The rest of us are screwed.
He says alot of things!
It’s at the point where his desperation is the only real substance left!
Watching the debate last night, my mind was focused on, the economy. so many losing jobs. people that need federal assistance will get cut. “homeless”
When you have two people that can’t agree on the right way to get this done. We are in big trouble. One side wants it this way, the other wants it another. Same as the credit rating. We need someone who will step up to the plate, stop catering to the lobbyiest, and do the right thing for the American citizens.
Having a debate in Denver, CO and debating energy policy struck a cord. Colorado has drilled over a thousand new nat. gas wells. People on the western side of the Rockies complain about airborne red dust particles coming in from nat. gas exploration in Utah.
The energy policy has become extremely aggressive out west. It seemed somewhat misleading that enough is not being done when the policy is already “all in.” At least for the people of Colorado and Utah.
It just isn’t right to restate goals when the objectives to meet those goals are well in place.
It would be like debating in Maine and saying there isn’t enough lobster.
The AARP is reeling today. They denounced the President. They don’t want to go down with that ship.
No worries about AARP.No matter who wins,they will get theirs.There is no group in this country with the most money and the time to grab what they think is “theirs”and screw everyone else.Ask any politician who’s had to deal with a bunch of wet hen misinformed old people.Not fun.
Funny too, as AARP is a very liberal entity. That should tell you something.
CEO versus a Politician. If it was a boxing match, they would have stopped the fight hlf way through!
Did someone forget to tell Barack that he had a debate last night? I wouldn’t be surprised if he is forced to miss one of his remaining debates due to a sudden ’emergency.’ His opponent dominated with the truth and won. Well done, President Romney!
I am only glad that you didn’t try to include Truth and Romney in the same sentence!
It would have fried my computers hard drive!
LOL
It’s the The “Media”
Thats Limbaugh Jargon!The ” ELITE ” Media!Thats Gringrich
The public got to see the real Obama last night. Obama is a great orator when reading a prepared speech. But when he has to speak without the help of a teleprompter he is lost. It becomes obvious that his understanding of issues and facts is lacking. Obama was angry and arrogant. He is not used to someone actually challenging his pronouncements from on high. He could not defend his own record.
Everything you said is true. Though, I’ve never felt bama was a good orator, prepared or not. He has this stilted way of speaking that I liken to a smiliar voice inflection called frying. Not frying, but an inflection non the less.
And, Romney, with his preppy smirk and continual interruptions, was “entitled” — I can’t believe that Jim Lehrer let him “rebut” when time had lapsed and let Romney take over as he did. So much for the “Liberal Press”, I guess. Romney flipped and flopped and had nothing of substance to say …
Romney stood up for himself after Lehrer tried to cut him off. It became necessary after Lehrer let Obama go over time multiple times. Only near the end did he finally say something to Obama about going over and then Obama acted like a 4 year old.
Funny we never saw his fake accent last night.
Lehrer was a disaster by any account.Maybe he’s too old to be there?The time limits should be strictly enforced on both sides.I’d like to see time taken away from your next answer if the prior one went on too long.I’ve been on a state championship debating team(great fun and a wonderful experience)and time limits were STRICTLY enforced.
The only way it could really work would be if there was an automatic switch that cut off one microphone and turned on the other one at the end of time.
Actually that might be a good idea.
I think they spiked his water!
If you’ve to say that twice, it might be your own water that is spiked.
I think they spiked his water!
Flag
For all you people that have been carrying
around the Obama blow up doll on the car seat beside you, Romney just stuck a
pin in it!
I don’t think that was a pin!
Now that is funny.
Apparently the BDN censor’s don’t like it the 1st time so here we go again. Romney came out last night like the wild hard-core rightwinger he really is and just steamrolled anybody and everybody that was there that didn’t agree with him, to include the Moderator. His clearly scripted responses to a call for a tax reform plan were neatly slipped in, at the end, when he called for an end of the Home Mortgage interest deduction, and an outright end to Charitable Contribution’s deduction, that all but openly declared Romney’s position of clearly killing off of the home construction, the furniture manufacturer’s and the appliance manufacturer’s segment’s of the economy for a minimum of the next 10 years. That means that those segment’s are either gonna be on life support (in the case of the home and commercial builder’s segment’s that aren’t all ready there), or are going to require an even greater increase in import’s of home appliance’s and furnishing’s. Now just where in this Grand Plan of Romney’s is there any room for American manufacturing to compete on an even basis ? Romney says he’s going to crackdown on Chinese import’s and currency value manipulation when he finds them manipulating THEIR export prices and currency value. How’s he gonna do it when he’s done everything possible for the Country to be completely dependent on Chinese good’s, and thus INCREASE our Balance to Trade Payment’s, to the Chinese instead of creating and providing American manufacturing a level and fair means of competing for these same market’s ?
American manufacturing needs to compete. But it needs to compete on a level playing field, not a field where the Chinese manufacturer’s are supported financially by their own government, instead of their own economy. Let the U.S. Gov’t start doing this and see just how fast a tarrif war starts up. Romney’s in this for Big Business and nothing else and his performance last night clearly demonstrated that when you sit down and think about what you heard and saw. That Obama didn’t get all emotional and start a spitballing match also shows you the kind of discipline that’s needed when emotional hysterics are added to the mix. Mitt came away as ‘Mine, all mine’ type who wanted all the candy and was determined not to share. Gee, I wonder why ?
Romney didn’t go into detail on what deductions that could go away…
Stick to the truth please…
Exactly and that’s what proves that Mitt is lying. His website says marginal rates will be lowered 20% across the board and maintains that revenue won’t decrease. There is no way you can get to that without literally removing every single deduction and then some — it just doesn’t add up. It’s pretty hilarious that you’re defending Romney by saying that someone else need to be sticking to the truth.
Oh but he did and in very pointed fashion. But he did it toward the end and mixed it in as part of his No New Tax’s hoopla so it wouldn’t be really noticed. Some of you need to re-read the transcript and look down the road and see just where these plan’s Romney’s talking about actually wind up. You can bet that the Bank’s sure did when he started talking about mortgage’s and their availability. The same can be said for the CPA’s who know full well that the 1st 5 year’s home mortgage payment’s are usually around 90 % interest payment, which if you look at the latest 1040 Long Form, is one of the 1st deductible item’s on your tax’s. Why, every year, do you think that the remaining furniture and appliance manufacturer’s advertise their product’s for the home around the time that the tax return’s are coming back ? They know full well that these tax return’s, especially the new homeowner’s 1st 5 year’s worth of return’s, are almost always going to be spent on new or upgraded furniture and appliances, more so for the existing home buyer market. Romney eliminates that deduction and you can kiss that market, and the cash flow revenue that goes with it, good bye. Romney might make a great speech and look like a manequin perfectly dressed President. But when he has to get in the dirt and actually explain what it is he’s proposing he comes up with 2 pair against a King high straight. Obama might not look pretty. But the Country is long past needing pretty. It needs a forward vision and goal, not a ‘Mine, all mine’ toddler who’s only thought is how many pretty thing’s he can get and claim to be the King of the Toybox. Bush did that and look where he got us. Do you really want to go down that road again ? Look at your kid’s and grandkid’s and think about it, honestly.
You are making up stuff. Romney didn’t say anything about taking away charitable deductions or home mortgage interest. He did say that some deductions would go away for high income earners.
I am supremely confident that Mitt has a far better understanding of international trade than does Obama. Do you think Obama even studied economics? (By the way its “balance OF trade” not balance to trade which is something entirely different)
GM is going down the toilet. the 86 billion bail out failed, got repaid with a different government loan. LOL.. It is impossible for GM to make a profit, nobody wants to invest in a company that the Government forced its investors to take a 80% loss on the dollar.. The union pensions and the payscale already distroyed the company.. another year and the company will be gone.
The mortgage deduction should go away. The biggest beneficiaries are the rich who buy the largest and most expensive houses. In effect the mortgage deduction inflates the price of real estate.
Mortgage Deductions are a Staple for the Middle Class.
They provide incentive for those who want to own a home and a boost for construction jobs that cant be shipped overseas!
It is an absolute no brainer!
Think about it!
I have thought about it. It’s called economics. The net effect of any subsidy that exists for a long time is to drive the price higher. It’s called an unintended consequence.
Works like this. Buyer can afford the loan to buy a house. With the subsidy the buyer realizes he can buy a bigger house than he could without it. Soon sellers realize that the buyers can afford to pay more money for the same house they would have bought before the subsidy. Sellers increase price and everything ends up where it was in the beginning except the subsidy that goes into the sellers pockets came from the taxpayers.
Same thing has happened with college tuition.
Conversely without it , houses don’t sell —we all live in wal-mart tents!
Your comment just shows that the whole concept, actually economics in general, is over your head.
The result of ending the subsidy is that over time the price of real estate stabilizes at a realistic, market driven level. Probably somewhat lower.
The following explanation applies to just about anything that is subsidized. For a short time after the subsidy is introduced sales of the subsidized item go up. If and when the subsidy is ever removed then the opposite effect happens and sales temporally go down. For short term subsidies the effect is simply to shift sales from one time period to another. Sales fall into this category. The unintended consequence of prices rising to higher levels and the sellers taking advantage of the subsidy and pocketing the extra cash happens only if the subsidy lasts long enough.
Now here is the real kicker. The real downside…. If a subsidy lasts LONG enough, (like the mortgage deduction and many other tax policies), then almost ALL the perceived benefits go away. Over a long enough period almost all sellers will also become buyers and the whole thing becomes a wash. Only prices are permanently pushed higher. What is actually happening is that the subsidy is in effect a long term hidden tax on the subsidized item that is taken from people in small bites over many years. The extra money sellers receive is actually only money they have lost over many years in taxes. Most of the higher price paid by the buyer is returned in the subsidy. There are negative effects on the buyer and seller because of the artificially higher price. Buyers have fewer options because of the higher prices. Sellers find sales are more difficult. And lenders are getting a bigger piece of the pie hurting both buyer and seller in ways they never even realize.
Just because you can’t see the abstract doesn’t mean it isn’t there !
Changes make an effect , effects can be measured ,
When those changes prove that effect, they prove an effect when static!
The differance between -2 and +2 is four!!!
Always has been, always will be!
I don’t often agree with you but you are stone dead right on this one.Same thing is also true to a degree with health insurance.Look at the pay for ins. co. CEOs who do nothing for patients.
With the college tuition Obama has started eliminating the middleman.Of course the banksters are screaming.
There’s two more tax changes that will never happen.One is to subsidize these giant families b/c it’s “God’s will”What do the Octomom and the Duggars cost us?The other is tax the churches and tax them NOW.They are already violation the separation provision,so let them pay to play.
It applies to almost everything that government interferes with. Health insurance, most definitely. Just compare Maine’s rates with many other states. There is way more to it of course, this in only one part of a larger picture.
Think “Cash for Clunkers” and how it has caused the price of used cars to rise hurting the poor the most. And remember how many dealers were caught raising the price of the new cars so people who thought they were paying less with the subsidy actually paid the same as they would have without the program.
The following explanation applies to just about anything that is subsidized. For a short time after the subsidy is introduced sales of the subsidized item go up. If and when the subsidy is ever removed then the opposite effect happens and sales temporally go down. For short term subsidies the effect is simply to shift sales from one time period to another. Sales fall into this category. The unintended consequence of prices rising to higher levels and the sellers taking advantage of the subsidy and pocketing the extra cash happens only if the subsidy lasts long enough.
Now here is the real kicker. The real downside…. If a subsidy lasts LONG enough, (like the mortgage deduction and many other tax policies), then almost ALL the perceived benefits go away. Over a long enough period almost all sellers will also become buyers and the whole thing becomes a wash. Only prices are permanently pushed higher. What is actually happening is that the subsidy is in effect a long term hidden tax on the subsidized item that is taken from people in small bites over many years. The extra money sellers receive is actually only money they have lost over many years in taxes. Most of the higher price paid by the buyer is returned in the subsidy. There are negative effects on the buyer and seller because of the artificially higher price. Buyers have fewer options because of the higher prices. Sellers find sales are more difficult. And lenders are getting a bigger piece of the pie hurting both buyer and seller in ways they never even realize.
“If Romney keeps this up, Obama is going to vote for him.” – Michael Moore via Twitter.
The debates won’t change the fact that people know what Mittens is all about, he had a good debate so what, Obama still wins in November.
HA, HA, HA, keep dreamin’. Everyone has learned what the true dummer is over the past 4 years.
How does anyone know who anyone really is,
Patrick? You are only repeating what you have been feed by the Left. I have
been feed info by the Right too, but I try to dig waaaay deeper than what is on
the surface. Sometimes I change my thoughts because of it. When I step waaaay
back to see the whole picture though, then I start to judge “character.”
Perhaps Obama entered the arena meaning well, but he now displays an arrogance
of power like none I have ever seen before in a president. If you can admit that
the news media is biased by 75% or more towards Obama, then I would be
interested in hearing what you think Obama is all about. But please tell me
things that you see through YOUR own eyes, not the media’s.
Maybe next time the President will prepare for the next debate, he got smoke checked last night. The VP debate next week should be interesting, watch Biden insert foot in mouth for the 100th time..
How do you debate someone that is constantly changing positions though?
I know Obama can’t seem to keep his lies straight.
I’m confused as to how it’s a victory for Mittens if all he did was just mirror everything Obama said and tried to make it magically part of his “plan”
Obama said, I going do this and that and Mittens asked why he hasn’t. seems easy enough a debate.. It changed who I will vote for. Mittens for pres.
Even when your guy fails at the debate, you pathetic worshipers still defend him! No wonder you are going to lose!
It takes credibility to admit when your opponent beats you. You prove you have no such credibility! No wonder you are going to lose!
It will take leadership to grow the country out of the mess obama and you Democrat lackeys has created. obama proved last night he has no ability for leadership. No wonder you are gong to lose!
i must say i am impressed with Romney’s performance. what a slaughter for Obama. Romney made his case to the middle class voter while Obama looked like the spoiled, arrogant, rich kid who’s mad he’s not getting his way. you could tell “how dare you talk to me like that” was right on the tip of his tongue
I find it funny how the Obamas say they grew up poor, poor people dont go to Ivy League schools…
Not if Mitt gets his way they don’t.
Zzzzzzzing!
The way Romney won was to counter every criticism from Obama with a lie. “Oh, I’m going to cover pre-existing conditions after all.” Romney’s advisers admitted 20 minutes after the debate that that wasn’t true. His own advisers! Lying can get you far in politics, there’s no doubt about that. Will it be enough lies, this late in the game, to make Romney seem like a “compassionate conservative” after all, erase the 47% fiasco, and win him the election? I can’t predict that.
Obama lied and you believed him. Wow! I will see you at the polls on Nov. 29th OK wolf?
If you’re going to reply to me, you should actually respond to what I said. I pointed to a real example of Romney lying and you’ve ignored that and provided absolutely nothing of substance — no wonder you’re supporting Romney. Two empty peas in a pod.
Should we get into a detailed list of Obamas lies? I dont have time to write a novel…but I am sure we could scratch the surface
I’m going to try your method of deflecting if I ever get pulled over for speeding. Just point to someone else and say it’s their fault, say that someone else was speeding too! I’ll let you know how it goes.
Admit it….Obama does great with a packed
audience of Democrats—a teleprompter—cleverly concocted words of
deception–and the ability to scream like an evangelist with his delivery. The
audience is mesmerized and goes wild with cheers. Take all those props away and
you get the confused and shallow person that Obama really is. You just didn’t
like what you saw. What you saw—WAS the TRUTH….an EMPTY
SUIT!
Admit it, you don’t have a real response to my comment so you’re changing the subject.
No—I have no problem with sticking with your subject of lies. I just don’t think the forum will allow me the space I need to list ALL of Obama’s. One that I liked in the debate was when Obama mentioned a 50 billion saving in fraud in Medicare. Ever since he STOLE the 716 billion out of it for Obamacare—-his party has claimed THAT was the fraud saved. Hmmm so is 50 billion the same as 716 billion. Sounds like the usually Obama “fuzzy math.” Then there is the BIG lie in his ads that the economy has turned around and we are on our way back up. He just needs to keep us going. Hmmmm—so are the next for years going to be like that “summer of recovery” THAT NEVER HAPPENED?? Obama is nothing BUT lies and manipulation.
Don’t reply to my comment if you want to talk about something else.
Comment removed…..
HIPPA Laws 1996
HIPPA Laws 1996. Some people go through life without buying health insurance for what ever reason. Then start having health issues and want to buy health insurance. That’s like buying fire insurance after your home burns down. It’s called personal responsibility….
It doesn’t matter. He lied about that last night.
This is proof that Obama thinks, believes Americans are stupid..
Obama never new what hit him! Obama tried to define Mitt but without any success and Mitt defined himself in an eloquent way. No TelePrompter for Obama and he was lost….. I nearly forgot to mention Obama was not a happy camper. The BDN is keeping this very low but if OBAMA had done a decent job then BDN would have big headlines but not for Mitt.
After listening to weeks of former Governor Rmoney’s rhetoric in favor of assisting small business in lowering taxes, I was hopeful the truth would be exposed during last night’s debate.President Obama did begin to uncover the disingenuous claims made by Mr. Rmoney when he stated, “Donald Trump is a small business.” President Obama did not articulate the point very well, nor did he expand on it as much as he should have. The Rmoney campaign gimmick, of creating jobs by reducing taxes for small business, simply promotes existing malfeasance.
Small business is defined by the US Small Business Administration as businesses with a 500 worker maximum. The Internal Revenue Service allows for S corporations, which permit corporate income, losses, deductions and credits to be reported on the partners’/shareholders’ individual returns at a lesser rate.
The unintended consequence of S corporation status is that it has allowed fabulously wealthy people to establish businesses to purchase assets, quasi-investment properties and amenities, that are strictly for personal use, i.e. vacation homes, constructed of the finest materials money can buy, at delightful locales, fully staffed, with all of the conveniences.
Mr. Rmoney said that lowering taxes will support job growth, adding jobs to our struggling economy. The real impetus for job creation is positive cash flow in businesses that are not overly leveraged, because the profits are reinvested in the business, thereby affording owners the funds to hire more people.
Financial responsibility creates jobs, tax cuts for Mr. Rmoney’s small businesses do not.
More proof.
Barry without Totus is like Superman without his cape
Didn’t see al of the debate but the parts that I did showed pretty even up. A lot of Romney’s “facts” are misfiguring on a lot of R/TParty myths.
You are the only one who believes it was even. LOL!
Come on.You’ve made no secret of where your sympathies lie.
President Obama early on in the debate stated, (ad-lib) the question tonight is not about the last four years, but where we are headed in the next four years….sorry Mr. President the last four years of your presidency are very much in question and relevant to the debate…..as the incumbent running for re-election, your results (or better lack of) as CIC define you and your administration very clearly and a comparison of the hope & change promises made by you as a candidate vs: the failure to provide the change promised, the failure to mend broken bi-partisan lines, the crazy national debt you have increased to all time highs, the current unemployment rates, the health-care debacle, and on, and on, and on…..sorry Mr. President, the last four years are the very question in my opinion…..
We’re not voting to rewrite the past four years. We’re voting for who is going to lead us the next four years.
Wow, such deep insight there…..and the point is that the relevancy of this President’s record for the last four years and the failure to provide, is something in my opinion, that should be considered very strongly in consideration of one’s vote…..to not look at the administrations failures by the voters, and for this incumbent President to state the last four years are not in play is foolishness and irresponsible……
You’re still not asking the right questions. Sequence doesn’t mean cause.
You should be asking yourself if McCain would have handled things better compared to how Obama handled things. You should be asking yourself if Romney will handle things better compared to Obama.
There you go spinning and who knows what else……Mr. McCain is not even relevant to the topic (what foolishness) and asking who, what, did or done beyond Mr. Obama is irrelevant…..this President’s job performance for the last four years is exactly what needs to be questioned and Mr. Romney pointed out many of the failures of this administration for the last four years by questioning the deficit, unemployment, increases in Gov’t entitlements, national security, healthcare and so on…..the only realistic comment you made is the last….if the last four years and last night’s debate are taken at face value, there is no question that Mr. Romney will be a great improvement from that of our current POTUS…..
It’s not a spin! Those were our options. It was Obama or McCain and now it’s Romney or Obama. That’s not spin, pointing out the reality of the situation isn’t spinning things.
We’re in a recession, of course the past 4 years weren’t amazing, but I know I would have rather had Obama in office than McCain. If you think the opposite is true, that’s fine, but you’re a liar if you want to say that things would have been massively better. No one is magician — no one could have isolated us from the impacts of financial collapse in 2008.
Scream and cry that that is spinning all you want. Scream and cry about bias here and there and how the media isn’t fair — it doesn’t mean you’re operating in reality though. It doesn’t mean you’re being honest, it just means you’re being lazy. You’d rather regurgitate talking points than have a real discussion. You’re rather point fingers of blame and scapegoat. Have fun with that.
Comment removed…..
You prove my point. It’s just laziness. You don’t have a real response of substance so you use a personal attack. Your candidate doesn’t have real positions, so he just lies and says something new every day. It’s much harder to be honest and principled.
It appears that you are a very unhappy and bitter person for some reason….you cannot, by what is seen on here daily, carry on a civil and cordial conversation with anyone else….I apologize if I have given you reason to respond to me with such ill intent and condescension…I will no longer lower my civility on here because of your patronizing insults…have at it and continue on with your ways and continue to condemn others, but do not expect me to respond to your comments and in doing so you can avoid responding to me….I trust that somehow or someway and someday you will be more at peace…God bless…..
I was civil and you ignored everything I said and resorted to changing the subject and personal attacks.
You can think of me what you want, but you’re blatantly ignoring the substance of my comment so you can criticize me personally.
Dismiss that all you want and allude to God or whatever, but it doesn’t change the fact that you’re the one being dishonest, you’re the one making personal attacks and you’re the one that’s unable to have a real discussion.
The economy had bottomed out when Obama took office. That means he is to held accountable for his lack of a recovery over the past four years. History has shown that recoveries under Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, as well as Clinton, vastly outperformed Obama’s record. The reason is due to Obama’s economic ignorance and commitment to failed Keynesian policy as well as his anti-business socialist mindset.
Obama is a certified failure. Romney is a proven success. You need to start thinking about your own personal benefit and walk away from a man who despises your interests.
Haven’t you ever hard the famous
quote…..”History repeats itself?”
The past four years is a clear indication of the direction Obama would take this country if re-elected.
The two writers from the AP never use the proper address of President Obama. Quotation marks missing. Simply. sloppy . The debate was great. We the People, finally got to see for ourselves, what both men have to say on issues. That was the refreshing aspect of the debate, now we do not have to rely on the media and talk hosts slants and views.
We can nitpick all day and find faults and fibs
with both candidates. They both are tweaking things to win. They both have
egos.
I just stepped back for the bigger picture and see Obama as a man with
growing arrogance and a bizarre feeling for personal power. That’s a dangerous
ego. I see Romney as wanting to meet a new challenge in his career, of saving
America. His record proves that he has the potential to do that. He raised a
successful company from nothing, detoured the Olympics from disaster, and now
wants to put a pin on his shirt for saving our country and it’s people. I’m part
of that country that he wants to save. I say “Go for it Mitt! And if you do it,
you will DESERVE that pin on your shirt, and all the ego that goes with
it!!”
If it had been a prize fight it would have been stopped by the referee less than half way through. No knockout but Obama was dazed and confused and stammering and obviously beaten badly. Because it was not stopped and went the distance it was a unanimous decision for Romney. Obama without a teleprompter is a complete disaster. Makes you wonder if even he believes the stuff he is saying. How do you defend the past four years? Wait until they start talking about foreign policy and world events. One dead ambassador who was killed basically on our own soil after we had been warned of danger on 9/11. Explain that one Mr. President especially considering the three weeks of “evolving” explanations as to what happened and why and how it was handled by our government. Finally the mainstream media is beginning to catch with Univision and ask the tough questions. Those are the questions he can’t answer. Obama the one term president.
Four more years like the last four years? Is he going to say this time that he inherited a bad situation that he himself made worse? He can’t blame Bush anymore. He can blame Republicans but he had it all his way the first two years and the stuff he got done didn’t help it made things worse. The fed pumping 40 bill a month isn’t working so they are considering a rate cut. Cut much more and it will be at zero. What then? January first the Obama tax increase is set to kick in. You think the economy is bad now just wait until that happens. What is Obamas plan? Where is his budget? Nowhere. Just like this presidency. Over. Done. Kaput. If I was Obama I would be sick in bed until November. Maybe by then voters will have forgotten last nights debate.
duplicate in error.
As an independent, I think Romney talked substance and won, Obama talked BS. Not surprised because four years ago he could get away with blaming Bush, now he finally has a record (even though not good). worst President since Jimmy Carter.
Roughly 13 hours after the carnage, the dust has settled. Time for the Democrats to regroup before the next debate, hold than chin up folks, you lost the battle but the war isn’t over yet…
You are such a good peace maker and middle of the road individual….an upstanding American….I salute you!
I call it like I see it, fair and balanced with a little bit of un-bias thrown in…
LOL!! your guys are funny.
It sucks living in a one party state. As is the case with the District of Columbia, I’ve never seen such victimization and helplessness. BTW: I think the BDN is slipping… they missed their gay interest story of the day. Boxer Orlando Cruz publically announced that he is gay!
Home Morgage deductions are the one thing that can truly bolster the economy.
You can’t outsource your home to China!
The money is spent here!
If he where to win the Republicans AND the Democrats would make it their #1 Political Objective to destroy him!
Didn’t you catch on to the Charactor Assasination of the last Hope and Change candidate that was going to change Washington?
Where was Romney the Last Four Years?
Sitting at home counting his ( American Tax Free Money) in hidden foriegn bank accounts from his exploits of shipping jobs overseas while Obama tried to fix the Mess that he helped Create!
And Obama funded GM and the unions to open auto factories in China and Mexico and close them down here in the USA. Nice try.
Not to mention the Volt.
Keynsian economics don’t work in a Global Economy!
The Stimulas was siphoned away from the US Economy into the GLOBAL Corporations.
We are in for a steady decline in America Regardless who is at the helm!
Romney will only make the decline faster!
We lost our Soveriegnty when all those fantastic Presidents sold us out to the world Corporations
Interesting that Mitt could supposedly win the debate by misstating facts. That must be how he got to where he is today. Ah, the mendacious meritocracy, the rising tide that lifts all boats.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/10/03/162263539/romney-goes-on-offense-pays-for-it-in-first-wave-of-fact-checks
Honky, lay off the moonshine….
The bull is over. A new sheriff in town who has a clue.
It was the altitude that got to Mr. Obama, that is why he was not himself.
Al Gore said so in this video!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtkw8stAlrM
Obamas Fast and Furious. I would like to hear a liberals excuse on how that was OK.. Please defend Obama on arming criminals. please, please please
I see a border agent got killed the other day possibly with a weapon from the fast and furious…Too bad..
Wow ! I have been waiting to see Romney in action haha He has all the answers to this country’s problems but not 1 single detail on how to achieve these great feats…We’ve all heard it before while visiting a car sales lot ! I found it quite sickening actually, that this is the best that this country can come up with for its leadership and well being..Very disheartening. Now I have no one to vote for.
Another Obama voter speaks. Hope and change. End of corruption. Cut the deficit in half. Sound familiar?
Get off the dole and roll buddy..
I think what this debate showed was that we have very poor leadership and whats trying to replace it is even less. We should all fear for our children’s children. Sad
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
You’re right. I meant to say “railroad spike” ;-) I can see them all now, as they scramble for the patch kit that came with the Obama doll, only to find out it doesn’t patch a hole that big. I’m sure the next thing they will try is a board and nails and a hammer. Eeeee-gads it must be hard to be a Lib. Every day is a struggle to find a place to park their brains. Obviously they don’t use them.
The one thing Romney proved is that he has both feet firmly planted in Republican Fantasy Land, a place that is unexplainable as Romney proved. It’s most likely that he won’t explain how they get to Fantasy Land because it is the same nightmare we’ve already experienced at the hands of another bully.
Those of you who think aggression is the key in a debate has taken too many shots to the head.
It wasn’t aggression, it was “command”. Something Obama knows nothing about…
Debates just aren’t Obamas thing now are they? The high altitude of Denver was really bad for him. Made him look “unpresidential. Especially beside Romney. He does better on the View couch with Whoopie or in the Letterman chair or on the golf course every other week. After November 2nd he will have plenty of time for all of those things. I imagine the job offers are pouring in today after that performance last night and his proven track record of success the past four years. Maybe he can resurrect Solyndra!? Take over Volt sales for GM! The mainstream press is just devastated. Shattered. Even Al Gore and Chris Matthews can’t explain it. How could this happen? Michael Moore had the best explanation……. ‘This is what happens when you choose John Kerry as your debate coach”! Gee whiz. Disaster. Sad.
Harry it’s hard to debate someone like Romney when everything out of his mouth is a distortion or outright lie. Debating facts against lies is no way of having a debate. Nothing Romney said explained anything just more blame without real solutions, the same ole crap that’s been tried and we all know doesn’t work. But the inmates who want to run the asylum want you to believe they’re not insane even though they want to continue to repeat the same nonsense they pulled in the past …. while promising a different outcome.
Listen to yourself man!
I think you just described Obama perfectly except for the hope and change part. Four more years? …………they want to continue to repeat the same nonsense they pulled in the past …. while promising a different outcome.
You should of used the infamous word, bully…..Try that next time, you guys love that word..
Oh come on, that’s not fair, Mitt is going to pay for everything by cutting PBS!
You Libs are funny;-) You know very well that Mitt was using that as an example of things we don’t need to borrow from China to pay for. You surely can sidetrack an issue. So are you suggesting that if you were in the hospital with a terminal disease—you would be happy to know that Big Bird was going to have another season on PBS—-even though that meant there was now no money for a surgeon for you? Ya—right!
Wow. Just wow. Now, if only we could make sure the electorate was fully aware of the fact that Romney is a leader and Obama is a poser I would feel great about our future.
18 hours after a total disaster for President Obama will you fellow Democrats pick up the pieces and try again??? Just because Mr. Romney showed the American people that the past 4 yrs have been a farce we can Get-R-Done!!!!!!
News update….Mr.. Romney’s garbage man actually has changed his mind and is getting on the Romney bandwagon……President Obama’s garbage man is thinking about supporting Romney and is now on the fence……
I wonder if my favorite blonde from MDI maybe on the fence???
From the look on Obama’s wifes puss, after the beating he took, he wasn’t getting any on his wedding aniversary. Back to Chicago for them hopefully.
ROMNEY / RYAN 2012 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Obama doesn’t want the poor to make more money, he want the rich to make less. he wants the leftovers going to the government.
edit
Note that the voter ID changes have been losing in the courts.Yet you’d NEVER know about the multistate R vote cheating scandal from the BDN which has buried it.SHAMEFUL.
We don’t agree on much but you are 100% right on this one.The BDN appears not to have a copy editor and they repeat fifth grade mistakes no matter the source.Unforgivable.