Exit polls in Tuesday’s presidential election underscored, once again, that America remains sharply divided along religious and cultural lines.
Jews, Muslims, gays, Catholic Hispanics and Protestant blacks overwhelmingly voted for President Barack Obama.
Evangelicals strongly supported Mitt Romney.
Among regular church-goers, Romney won 59 to 39 percent. Among voters who never attend church, Obama won 62 to 34 percent, according to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.
Those who call themselves religiously unaffiliated voted for Obama 70 percent to 26 percent.
“President Obama’s victory has allowed me to be the proudest I’ve ever been to be an American,” said Bill Dusenberry, president of the Tulsa chapter of the American Association of Secular Humanist Pantheists.
Dusenberry, who is vacationing in France, said the French were happy to see his Obama sticker.
“Europe is socialistic. These nations share their wealth rather than allow a small number of their residents to become fantastically wealthy,” he said.
Among people who self-identify as born again or evangelical, Romney won 79 percent of the vote, to Obama’s 20 percent.
Everett Piper, president of Oklahoma Wesleyan University in Bartlesville, said the election was clearly a contest between a Judeo-Christian worldview and a post-modern, secular worldview.
“I’m disappointed for our economy, for our culture, for our church and for our community,” he said of the Obama win.
“I’m disappointed because our freedoms have been compromised.
“We’ve become a nation of children who prefer candy and cash to competency and character.”
Piper said he didn’t believe the culture war was over, or that the Judeo-Christian worldview and ethic has disappeared because of this election.
“I believe that the truth of Christ and the truth of scripture is the strongest idea and the best idea, the most true idea of all human history; and I believe that it is the solution to a broken economy, a bankrupt culture, and a loss of integrity and morality worldwide.
“The best cure for what ails us is to live biblically,” he said.
Nonevangelical Protestants preferred Romney 54 to 44 percent, and white Catholics voted for Romney 59 to 40 percent, but Hispanic Catholics voted for Obama 75 to 21 percent.
The Jewish vote went to Obama 69 to 30 percent.
David Bernstein, community relations director for the Jewish Federation of Tulsa, said Jews vote for people they think will bring social justice.
“We always have, because we have been downtrodden ourselves,” he said.
He said that explains Jews’ support of Obama’s health-care program and his position on Hispanics.
Obama is less supportive of Israel than Romney, he said, but Israel is a lower priority for American Jews than social justice.
A Council on American-Islamic Relations exit poll found that 86 percent of Muslims voted for Obama.
Ninety-five percent of black Protestants voted for Obama.
“I’m very happy about President Obama being re-elected, not because he’s an African-descent president, but because I think this is a positive move for our nation,” said the Rev. Marilyn Robinson, African-American pastor of Ascension Lutheran Church.
“I’m very proud of our nation, and I’m hoping that this means we will become more united and less polarized,” she said.
According to the Williams Institute, a sexual orientation think tank at the UCLA School of Law, Obama received 76 percent of the LGBT vote (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender).
Nancy McDonald, president of the Tulsa chapter and past national president of Parents, Family and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, said she was “absolutely” happy to see Obama re-elected.
“When he came out in support of gay marriage, for many in the LGBT community, that validated their support for him,” she said.
“Attitudes are changing,” she said, noting that voters in Maine and Maryland on Tuesday approved same-sex marriage.
Ray Hickman, executive director of Tulsa Metropolitan Ministry, said that with the election now over, he hopes to see an end to partisan bickering, polarization and paralyzing fear, and a new season of prosperity, justice and restored confidence in national leadership.
(c)2012 Tulsa World (Tulsa, Okla.)
Visit Tulsa World (Tulsa, Okla.) at www.tulsaworld.com
Distributed by MCT Information Services
“The best cure for what ails us is to live biblically,” he said.
What in the world does this mean?
Does it mean that we need to become near-Stone Age Israelites?
Should we offer our daughters to house guests?
Should we suffer women to be silent and forbid them to teach?
Love one another??
Loving one another is not limited to living biblically.
Many many times it seems that the people who do not live biblically” are the more decent and compassionate people. Not always, but very often. Many do many decent and charitable acts, quietly….they do not make a big show of it. It isn’t about them.
Don’t disagree. But just saying: just because some have given RELIGION it a “bad name” and a bad rap by promoting extreme views and corrupting the message and abusing it , it still has value and an important messaage .
“The best cure for what ails us is to live biblically,” he said.
So read Matt. Chapters 5-7 and then tell me if the politically motivated right wing, social conservative, “end of days “, Nationalistic, warmongering, exceptionalist “christians”,
the American neo-Pharisees, actually do, please ?
Go to their own final source, and figure out who the wolves preaching false teachings really are.
Many conservative Christians depend, possibly too much, on the Gospel of John and not enough on the other Gospels, especially this cited passage.
… and that John the Revelator, person, too, who wrote that last bit of their Bible
… which Martin Luther said there was nothing Godly in, or about it .
That john , whoever he really was, and which side he really bats for,
wrote his psychologically bent rant hundreds of years after Christ left the building .
Raising the question of if the Saved really, or even fundamentally, believe in Christ as the last, the fulfillment, of all the prophets, or not ?
So the REAL point here is some of us want our Nation and our newer, kinder, ole time, religion back.
That loud, mean spirited, socially conservative minority does not speak for us.
So they need to stop saying they speak for all the real anythings,
because they are not exclusively it .
If we’re wrong about it …well, their Hell is fine with me.
One thing I’m pretty sure of, and looking forward to about any afterlife is,
in one way or the other, they’ll be elsewhere,
and I need not have to pretend to respect them, or take their judgmentalism seriously, anymore.
I would use the words “false prophets” rather than “wolves”. After all, haven’t the wolves suffered enough?
“… use the words “false prophets” rather than “wolves”
Well, to be honest, I struggled with how to avoid doing exactly that.
I did not want to imply an endorsement of anyone, especially me,
having a lock on any truth in religion.
But yeah, if it is possible I wasn’t clear, your post helped to fixed it.
Thanks.
Here’s a link to the original Pew study:
http://www.pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/How-the-Faithful-Voted-2012-Preliminary-Exit-Poll-Analysis.aspx
thank yopu gerald. I was going to hunt for it and do my OWN analysis. This one seem to have a number of holes in it. Like, how did mormon’s vote .
I wonder how long this tenuous alliance of conservative Christians and Mormons will last. Or even with Roman Catholics. Not very long.
agreed –simply looking for a new “constituency” and new votes. Lost enough fundamentalist last time to lose the Presidency. They had to “make them up” somewhere.And Lord know they spent the last 2 years ticking off and erroding their votes else where— women, workers immigrants etc.
I wish they hadn’t included that Dusenberry quote. It’s just red meat for the Religious Right. Also the Judeo-Christian label is a misnomer, it doesn’t represent any Jews. This so-called analysis seems heavily politicized.
I agree…seriously, these walking stereotypes are the best they could come up with? :
I gather it was written for a Tulsa audience. Can’t figure out why it would be re-printed here.
Tulsa is considerably more conservative than Maine or a number of other places. Good to hear some input from elsewhere.
Agreed. Who writes some of these articles!
So only aspiring theocrats like theocracy? Such a surprise!
I read with great interest yet another reasoning describing the divide our country endures. Throughout the election process I became interested in the point spread so to speak of polls which repeatedly predicted an even divide among those polled. Time and time again the polls predicted and repeated themselves continually through the election process until in the end the “popular vote” produced a result of Obama 50.6% – 62,085,892 votes – Romney 47.9% – 58,777,012 votes – yes Obama won but that is still very close, how can this be? Both sides for the most part got to hear the same bidding from both candidates, both sides got to listen to them debate and the candidates champion their causes.
It was perfectly clear to me that Romney had no plan except the same old ex-Bush policies and surrounded himself with the same personnel that brought us those policies. As the leader of the Republican Party he preferred to keep company with the likes of Trump, Sonunu and others from extreme right. Conversely those who supported Romney probably had the exact same feelings about Obama. Still half felt one way and half felt the opposite, really?
Maybe it’s the information that each half subjects themselves to? OK what if we were to reverse the media each half listens to, so that the Fox/Limbaugh crowd listens to only MSNBC/Ed and vise-versa. Would people suddenly have a political epiphany and switch sides? I highly doubt it, the only outcome such a thing would produce is to cause folks to replace perfectly good big screen TVs due to sudden damage.
Maybe it’s a religious thing, programming done by the church that causes those who attend to lean one way or another …. I don’t think that’s it either because we all know folks who grew up in families that where conservative or liberal and children of that family chose separate paths that diverged in opposite directions.
We’ve heard and are hearing the pundits tell us why things went the way they did and it seems everyone has their own spin as to why. Maybe it’s none of these things; maybe it’s something that we’re so close to we’re incapable of seeing? What if half of us are indeed different than the other half? What if we are evolving into two different species of human? Just because we look the same does that mean that our brains couldn’t be fundamentally different, an unseen evolutionary divide among us?
The simple math, .5+.5=1
Actually, recent psychological studies have confirmed common sense (valid for a change) that we all tend to believe only that information that confirms or appeals to our preconceived beliefs and opinions.
Agreed, but the fact the preconceived beliefs and opinions are almost down the center is what is fascinating about the political divide.
This isn’t illuminating though. Compare the numbers to previous Democratic nominees. For example, Obama got the exact same percentage of the white vote that Clinton did. These aren’t new phenomenons.
Yikes. All of this information and the “Religious Right” still act as though they are living in 300 AD. They appear to be clueless. It’s 2012 and the “times they are a changing”….
“Among people who self-identify as born again or evangelical, Romney won 79 percent of the vote, to Obama’s 20 percent.”
I know that socially conservative Christians do not relate to other (secular ) Americans very well as they mix their politics and religion and expect all they decide is a sin to be illegal, too.
So, I must wonder how well they relate to the fundamentalist, social conservatives of the world’s other major religions, with whom they have so much in common in fighting the growing secular attitudes in their respective Nations ?
‘
His word does not change.
But it is translated, interpreted, studied, etc.
mis-used, mis construed
Yes, and you have the one true interpretation but no one else does, unless, of course, it agrees with your take on it.
well most do say abomination. I do use a dictionary also and read the whole Word, not just pick a verse here and there
In Hebrew, Greek, or just the King James’ version?
I will have to look up the conversion for the Hebrew and Greek on Abomination and see what they mean.
You do know that it isn’t really his word right? It is a bunch of parables and fables stuck together, that were written by a bunch of old men in “His voice”.
I guess we will find out in the end. I prefer to know It is true.
But it can be abused and spun ( and is) just like everything else right touches.
Certainly can, and unfortunatly it seems to have been used a lot this time, in the wrong context
“His word does not change.”
So you should read them and live his word, live by the red letters,
the most of which in one place are in Matt. 5 to 7.
How do they fit with right wing politics and policies ?
How about what the red letters say about marriage? Since you mention those verse’s read the ones further down. They can fit very well.
> “How about what the red letters say about marriage?”
Show them to me… those beyond : ‘Let him without sin …”
Hey, I’m such a poor doubtful wretch, that I’m not able to say my infant baptism should have really made me a Christian, but the amazing grace that I hear in my heart says ask this person for chapter and verse.
That’s my faith, my testimony.
Can you respect my faith and religious freedom as you would have others do unto yours ?
Also I said I was not perfect, and am not casting stones.
“But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”
Does your Faith or your Bible say, for this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and cleave to his man?
“Does your Faith or your Bible say, for this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and cleave to his man?”
Well, if one’s God ‘s given nature is such that he can’t, in the glory of God’s creation, cleave to a woman, in sincere love for the greater glory of God, should he cleave to a man in the gift of God’s love, or just stay and cleave only with his parent, until they die, and he is alone ?
So BTW:
Who said my faith is in Bible ?
It is just a old book.
An anthology of the Jew’s culture.
I’m just using it to kept those who say they know God’s will honest, because like the Taliban uses the Koran, they will not listen to anything but THE BOOK, or ever compromise, anyway,
the poor lost souls.
I just use the Bible like the false prophets do.
I’m spinning it.
My faith is in the Spirit. who dwells in my heart and soul.
The one spirit which is known in all cultures, by all of your Christ’s other children, in all of the one God’s name .
All the prophets and John the Baptist prepared forthe for Christ’s coming,right ?
That took 4000 years.
So he died rose then ascended into heaven.
Then what happened ?
Didn’t the word, the light and descend so we could dwell in it ?
But it lacks a big build up.
No drama, just heart and faith.
It did it much the same in many (all) other cultures, too.
They did not all write books or get get all authoritarian ’bout it though.
Thanks.
There is my belief.
I’ve never said so plainly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWTDgc96bg8
Or if you prefer a Maine roots version of the simple truth of it ;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=q0TkI3HGZhM&feature=endscreen
No, it says he should stay single.
Intellectually dishonest to say that this election was a turning point in our culture and religious life. These trends have been going on for centuries. And electing Romney and Ryan would have mde any real difference? At least no Obama voter accused Romney of being a Savior or Messiah like McCain, et al. did against Obama.
The Democrats made nowhere near as much of Romney’s Mormon religion, (hardly anything) , unlike the McCain/Palin campaign and supporters did of Obama. Tells you a lot…. It should not have been made an issue, either way.
I seem to remember that in 2004, the Bush campaign would have supporters holding signs that said “God wants Bush to be president” and making sure those signs were in view of TV cameras. Amazing.
This is 2012, the religious right needs to get with the times.
His word does not change, and tghe Religeous left need to get back to where they should be, reading his word, and going to Churhc
Everything changes, standing like an oak against the wind is harder than being a birch bending with the wind.
The bible isn’t relevant for everyone. I’ve read it, I think it’s a wild story based on a modicum of historical fact written down by superstitious men looking to calm their fears. What resulted was an intense fictional novel.
Interesting how many facts they still findout about it. But His word does not change.
☆ミ
thanks, now that I appreciate.
As commented previously, the Word does change, is translated, interpreted, studied, and analyzed. the results of that are seen and heard at least every Sunday, at least in non-dogmatic churches. As a member of the religious “right” (does not necessarily connote correct), your churches have changed, not always for the better, and if you’re a Protestant, your church is the result of a sea change, a Reformation and enlightenment that is still ongoing. At least it should be.
There is always enlightentment according to God, but the fact of what he says about sin does not.
History repeating itself, we are like ancient Rome: after the fall they saw their mistakes, I’m not sure the US will. We have been a nation God has blessed, but God is a gentleman and will not go anywhere he is not wanted.
By the time Rome fell, it was a Christian Nation, we must always separate Church and State. The United States government leaders and wall street, have our industrial base over seas, in which, we do not have enough revenue now to run this country, so the Fed push off things to the States, and the States push them off to the Towns, and the Towns push them off to the taxpayers.
Rome was a Christian theocracy by the time the Western Empire fell. Church and state existed in many European countries for the next millennium plus, often to their detriment.
And who says God isn’t wanted in our society? A majority continue to profess some affinity with God even if they are not regular church members. Too anthropomorphic to consider God a “gentleman” but we should be “gentlepersons” as previously outlined in the cited passages out of Matthew.
It really has nothing to do with religion, it, is the understanding that we need to remove the republican senators and congressmen that are holding up the progress of the country and the people for their own selfishness, all we need to do now is wait two more years and we can clean out more of the republicans from the senate, and we can get this country moving again. A hand full of senators are holding the whole country hostage, their agenda is the removal of the middle class and see that the very rich do not pay taxes. Religion or no religion, we will be able to do this in two years.
Get this country moving where, on an even faster road to hell?
LOL, no, but there are a number of things that could be done. Our tax code needs work, we need to add $300.00 to social security, get a few more retiring, get some jobs opened up for the unemployed, work on some tarriffs to get move manufacturing in he US back in some segments.
Our problems are really small, if we could pull together as a Country, shelter, healthcare, and an income to cover living expenses need to be really looked at. In WWII, the rich paid their fair share of taxes, and many served as $1.00 a year men, this great Nation, can, prosper,the people need leadership and direction. I remember great leaders, we need them now.
Did you just say our problems are really small? This country has voted in Obama……TWICE. THAT is a big problem. He does not know what he is doing.
Now, all of that aside, of course the tax structure has needed revamping for a very long time. Tariffs also need to be imposed (NAFTA NEVER should have happened). The rich pay their fair share now. They pay for nearly everything that the government spends. We need to broaden the tax base, not squeeze the wealthy even more. Do you want the rich NOT buying aircraft, sports cars, yachts, investing in their businesses, etc? Trust me, they spend the money and it helps keep the economy moving…..until things are put in place to make them not spend their money.
I remember great leaders too. We haven’t seen one since January of 2009.
I am a Republican but could not care less about somebody’s religion. This “used to be” great nation may become great again, but when the “give me my free stuff” crowd gets the upper hand, it spells the end of this once great country. Tax the wealthy so Obama can give it to everybody else is not how to get things done.
If, you think George W. Bush was a great leader, wow, I am bewildered, George W. Bush got us into this mess. Most of the rich have their money in off shore banks, they are not investing or buying here. I really do not think I should go on, but, you surprised me with your comment, it is obvious, you are not familiar with the average people’s struggle for survival, for fear of their families being able to stay together.
The rich don’t pay enough!
And conservatives know what they’re doing? In their own minds, maybe and nowhere else. Like other commenters, I would agree that haven’t had a great leader in decades, but the leader the last 4 years has been better than many of his predecessors, especially Bush II.
Maybe more to a heaven on earth, like Christ intended. And this will not be accomplished by regressing to a conservative theocracy.
Ah-yup , not even in one being used … er… sorry, sponsored … by the
( Kock Bros.) corporate establishment.
“Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power.” – Benito Mussolini
How does that get explained away by the traditional values, “christian”,
TEA people ?
Well said.
“It really has nothing to do with religion”… it is only well said and valid if you’d say the Taliban has nothing to do with religion, too.
Ask all world’s fundamentalist conservatives if they think their politics
has nothing to with their religion.
They’ll set you straight on that point, themselves, to be sure.
Now, the most extreme Western sorts are actively working to prepare the world’s end.
So, it is more accurate to suggest their politics and religion have nothing to do with
a future for life on Earth
Those are the ones who have been predicting the end of the world for forever. They will be doing it now and in the future. Every day is about Doomsday for them. They often miss all the beauty and good in the world and choose to focus on the opposite. Let’s be thankful that everyone does not view the world that way.
They are the ones who claim to worry about future generation’s debt,
but deny man made climate change because it’s supposed to be bad for those left behind, and pridefully they know they’ll taken up.
Do you know about this embarrassing bit of US history:
Great Disappointment – Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment
The Great Disappointment was a major event in the history of the Millerite movement, a 19th-century American Christian sect that formed out of the Second Great Second Great Awakening.
Based on his interpretations of the prophecies in the book of Daniel (Chapters 8 and 9, especially Dan. 8:14 “Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed”), William Miller, a Baptist preacher, proposed that Jesus Christ would return to the earth during the year 1844. The more specific date of October 22, 1844, … ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment
Stories of the misery it caused are … awesome, in the old meaning.
Th original lead in to this story was highly biased and inaccurate. It said ” According to PEW those who attend religious services regularly support Romney ”
And yet these fact below dispute that and they show something different, then the lead in .
The facts show: Primarily ONLY EVANGELICANS substantially ‘favor ‘ romney . With white catholics and presumably WHITE mainstream protestants slightly favoring Romney ( most black churches are ALSO Protestant (and even evengelican) ). I believe jews, muslim, hispanic catholics.and protestsnat blacks also “attend services regularly”. :
“Jews, Muslims, gays, Catholic Hispanics and Protestant blacks overwhelmingly voted for President Barack Obama.”
” Hispanic Catholics voted for Obama 75 to 21 percent.
The Jewish vote went to Obama 69 to 30 percent.”
” 86 percent of Muslims voted for Obama.”
“Ninety-five percent of black Protestants voted for Obama.”
“Nonevangelical Protestants preferred Romney 54 to 44 percent, and white Catholics voted for Romney 59 to 40 percent,”
“Among people who self-identify as born again or evangelical, Romney won 79 percent of the vote, to Obama’s 20 percent.”
So it would appear the ONLY religious group that overwhelmingly supported Romney was evangelicans., “non evangelican ( mainstream?)–Protesteants ( did that count include black protestants? ) and white catholics slightly favored Romney .
It would appear that in fact MOST who” attend religious service regularly” favored OBAMA.
Evangelicans are a VERY small portion of the religious WHOLE , by the way .They are ONLY 20% of the whole. YES I know they are NOISEY though making then seen BIGGER then they are
jews, muslims, hispanic catholics , and black protesteants overwhelmingly voted for President Barack Obama.”
IT would appear that SOCIAL JUSTICE ( helping the poor) prevailed over the appeal of the religious right ( restrictions on abortion, birth control etc.)
Without the link it is hard to verify this person’s analysis. How did ALL Catholics vote (including asian and black catholics) ? How were black protestants “categorizeed” ? Many are also “evangelican” . What is the proportion of “evangelicans” to the whole of “religious groups “?
Without that info the analysis is meaningless and just more political ( and “religious” spin) And how did mormon’s vote ? That is n important ommision given Romnney’s faith and that it is one of the the faith that is growing the most .
I’ll go in search of the raw data and see what I conclude from it.
Being a member of a non-conservative, mainline Protestant church, I was surprised that that bloc slightly favored Romney although it was pleasing that Obama’s support was considerably higher than the conservative bloc. I agree, the raw data (and what questions were asked and how) would be more interesting.
I was also surprised at those numbers for non evangelical Protestants.
“The original lead in to this story was highly biased and inaccurate. It said ” According to PEW those who attend religious services regularly support Romney “… “he facts show: Primarily ONLY EVANGELICANS substantially ‘favor ‘ romney . With white catholics and presumably WHITE mainstream protestants slightly favoring Romney ( most black churches are ALSO Protestant (and even evengelican) ). I believe jews, muslim, hispanic catholics.and protestsnat blacks also “attend services regularly”.
Did you miss the point ?
The SELF DEFINED REAL CHRISTIANS those who attend THE ONLY REAL CHURCH’S religious services regularly support Romney.
I’ve study their code.
Watch and you’ll start to see in more places than Coca-Cola ads.
Keep in mind this is a piece written for TULSA Oklahoma!!!
It appears this piece is intended to create (and continue) a religious divide that doesn’ t even exist . MOST religions embrace social justice ( helping the poor )–only ONE religious group— evangelicans —are holding on and holding out and DIVIDING us and being exploited by politicians and the media.
However, that group is quite significant in numbers, impact, and loudness if nothing else. Another group, Roman Catholics, must also be included in the socially conservative bloc and they are significant.
‘It appears this piece is intended to create (and continue) a religious divide” …
That is exactly the goals of some powerful and increasingly influential, but secretive “regilous” people.
“–only ONE religious group— evangelicans —are holding on and holding out and DIVIDING us and being exploited by politicians and the media.”
Find out who they really are.
It not just silly home schoolers, who do not enough know the part that they play..
It is something that is best to research for yourselves, least you just view it it as too unbelievable.
That is fully intended and it designed to be seen in exactly that way.
Start researching Dominionism – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism
Then how they are “conquering” “The Seven Mountains” … of secularism, I must guess.
http://www.reclaim7mountains.com/
But do not underestimate this by stopping with the just the material they use to influence mainstream Christian Churches.
Dig deep enough to see their own message to and for the committed
given they a happy use use people who do not know what is behind the curtain.
Or trust these serious people:
‘http://www.publiceye.org/christian_right/dominionism.htm’
As I expected there was a bit of spin to this piece. (I mean come on… Tulsa OK!!!) Going to the Pew research directly, I found :
OBAMA won the “religious” vote 50% to 48%.
He also won the TOTAL catholic vote 50% to 48%!!!
He won the Jewish vote 69% to 30%.
He DID lose the mormon vote 21% to 78%. But 21% of the faithful voted for the other guy (Obama) .
Mainline protestant favored Romney 54-44
Born again or evangelican favored Romeny 79 – 21
EVANGELICAN are ONLY 23% of the electorate !!!!
Catholics are 25% of the electorate and 6% MORE of them voted in THIS election
ONLY 28% of the electorate attends religious service weekly(as in “regularly”) .
17% of those who consider themselves religious NEVER attend a service .
RELIGIOUS impact on politics appears to be bit over blown and it’s own spin.
ONLY 28% attend services “regularly”. 17% NEVER do. ONLY 23% are evangelican ( or born again) . They tend to attend services more then once a week , usually Wednesday and Sunday ( making up for the rest of us)
odd, try as I might, I don’t find this piece actually in the Tulsa News.
I DO find a thoughtful opinion piece about medicaid expansion—urging the GOV to do it to comply with “obamacare” and help OK’s poor. And I learned that most Tulsans like their new trash system by 55% . THEY can get trash removal TWICE a week!!! Can you imagine that!!!??? Looks like their trash cans are provided ( By big governjment??) and they are on wheeels!! They seem to have just implemented recycling –have to pay for bags and tags. Gee maybe they AREN’T so different then us. BOY I like their trash cans !!!
I am very much a christian but I did not buy into the doom and gloom prospects of an Obama presidency. I am very proud to have voted for Obama and the democrats. I don’t believe in same sex marriage, but I can live with the results. I believe we can have a better life for everyone (thats what Christ would want) under Obama.The Republicans preach Christian values, then vote against school lunch programs, welfare for the needy, and supports the destruction of health care for the less effluent. Abortion is a personal issue that will be judged by God, not Mitch McConnell. The church (including mine) should keep it’s nose out of politics and stick to preaching the good book, and leave there politics behind. No political party is worthy of God’s full blessing and they will be better off to remember that.The destruction of the church will only come from it’s members with political bumper stickers. Keep your eyes to the skies and your political beliefs in the voting booth.
If you’re truly a Christian, then it is impossible to keep your religion out of your politics. Christ calls us to weave our beliefs into every aspect of our lives. Part of our judgment by Christ will include his evaluation regarding how much our Christian beliefs motivated our every action.
That is why many Christians could not vote for a money-grubbing millionaire cult-member like Romney who wanted to privatize our social services to benefit his fat-cat friends.
Exactly. A lot of people in this election were not fooled as it turned out. The Republicans (and Romney campaign) really underestimated the American people. (their intelligence, their compassion.) Other than being “flabbergasted” (as Gingrich is about this election, and how wrong he got it), you wonder if any of them will gain any understanding. I think some of the younger Republicans probably will, such as the young George Bush (Jeb Bush’s son) etc. I doubt they will want to continue on with their party the way it is now.
I would say more were fooled than were not, given the final tally.
and look at the money Obama raised, and how Hollywood supported him. Are not those some of the same people you are talking about.
Better gamblers. They bet on the right horse.
bigger money, not to pass the party favors out.
But when your politics impinge on the rights of others, that’s when many of us (majority?) will not vote with you.
It seems a lot of voters in this country feel similarly to you. Thankfully.
We all have to account for ourselves, even our votes. Unbelieveable you should say Churches should keep out of politics. You are right they should be preaching from the Good Book, and if people would of heeded that I think the election would of been different. You can not separate your Religious belief’s from the ballot box, as I said we are responsible for every decision. (by the way I am not perfect) wanted to say that before the comments started coming.
Good to hear that you too are not perfect. Not necessarily you, but I was beginning to wonder about some of your fellow travelers.
I appreciate the sentiment, I have had a diffiuclt having some believe that because of what I say. Mine as all is a walk with Christ (yes I know some believe some don’t). I make mistakes, and some big ones. I try to overcome them, I attempt not to be judgemental though some online think because they can not sway you that you hate them in regards to equal rights. Christian or not, all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. I strive to be a good person to everyone. I can have lunch or coffee with anyone, and treat them the same. That does not mean I believe in the things someone does. I guess I went a little long, but it really difficult to tell someone you don’t hate them when they think the opposite, because they interject equality into the discussion. (which is their right whether I agree with them or not) I also think we have to move on and get beyond, though I will still disagree with it.
“Unbelieveable you should say Churches should keep out of politics.”
Oh, really ?
While I know you are entitled to have an opinion, and I support your right to express it,
but from your high moral ground can you please explain why you find Jesus’ own
words “unbelievable “, please ?
Today’s reading is Matthew 22:21
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22%3A21&version=KJV
If you read that and believe that, you have to render unto God what is God’s, which marriage is between a man and a women. Same as Obama, you can not separate your Religeous belief’s when you vote.
Nice!
James, good on ya.
I love your post.
It is reasonable, well stated, strong, and moderate.
It is my beliefs perfectly stated.
I’m jealous wishing in my heart that my saying it like that would be heard, .
But I’ve been standing up to the phony moral phony majority since I first went on line.
Sadly, I’ve been jaded into fighting their no compromise approach with their own tactics.
Well, there is a sea charge …. but will the deluded learn and will their cynical leaders comprise even in defeat ?
I hope and pray for America that your ways time has come (back).
It is what I think are real American values.
Talk about the “religious right”….here’s an article about those Ohio coal workers who were forced to attend a Mitt Romney appearance. This validates why unions are needed now more than ever. The owner of the coal mine actually said a prayer, then fired some workers in retaliation of President Obama being re-elected.
http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/romney-backer-who-forced-coal-workers-to-attend-rally-unpaid-fires-160/politics/2012/11/09/53409
Those CEO’s and other business owners who fired some of their employees because President Obama won…..have you ever heard of anything more low and appalling! I hope those fired employees find a much better place to work, and with an ethical, and humane employer.
I hope they file a class action suit against that self-righteous SOB. He hides behind religion, but he has no compassion for his fellow man.
This article is stating the obvious. It also would be interesting to see the statistics per level of education. That would be very telling.
These statements:
“I’m disappointed because our freedoms have been compromised.”
“We’ve become a nation of children who prefer candy and cash to competency and character.”
“The best cure for what ails us is to live biblically,” he said.
What planet are these people on? How has anyone’s freedoms been compromised?
I cannot imagine anyone would look at the GOP Presidential line-up this year and declare it as the model of “competency and character.”
Live biblically? By which cherry-picked biblical edicts do they wish to live?
The deal is this: We are in a global economy. We can continue to live in the 1950’s while the rest of the world passes us by, or we can adapt for the industries, government, and business practices of this and the next century. I’m for moving ahead.
““Europe is socialistic. These nations share their wealth rather than allow a small number of their residents to become fantastically wealthy,” he said.”
____________________________________________________
“Allow”???? Yes, there is a secret committee that decided which Americans can become wealthy. Apparently Oprah and Bill Gates were on the list……along with apparently any professional athlete, actors, etc. I guess my number just hasn’t come up yet.
This type of delusional thinking is truly horrifying…..unless you support Obama, and then I guess it makes perfect sense……which is even more horrifying.
“I believe that the truth of Christ and the truth of scripture is the strongest idea and the best idea, the most true idea of all human history; and I believe that it is the solution to a broken economy, a bankrupt culture, and a loss of integrity and morality worldwide.”
Is this writer telling us that Christ was a socialist and that the rich should give to the poor? — Or at least pay workers a living wage in their factories? We’d have to agree with the writer that increasing wages would certainly help get some money into circulation. The rich certainly aren’t spending what they have under our present system. Too much of their money is going into Swiss banks where it isn’t doing anyone here a bit of good.
“Europe is socialistic. These nations share their wealth rather than allow a small number of their residents to become fantastically wealthy…” As a result, all of my cousins in Sweden and my wife’s in-laws in Holland would be considered at the top of the upper middle class in this country. In 50 years I have never met one who didn’t have a nice home, take vacations in other countries, or drive a nice car. I never heard of one losing his home to the banks because he couldn’t work, got sick, or lost his job. I never heard of one crying that he was crushed with a college debt for his/her PhD.
We read that 90 percent of the people in Northern Europe would have voted for Obama. — Even though they consider him to be right of center — or far to the right. They consider him to be the lesser of two evils.
A lot of Americans are more concerned about how they will buy food and heat their homes this winter than they are about same sex marriage.
How many Americans could make it here on their savings alone without Medicare and Social Security?
The humble Farmer
Socialism works great until you run out of other peoples money, which seems to be where Europe is at these days.
Uninformed comment. You would do well to learn some history. Europe’s problems are not due to providing humane benefits to their citizens, but due to establishing a common currency but not providing for a mechanism to deal with economic crises such as the housing bubble, the Great Recession, or predatory banks that create sovereign debt chaos in places like Greece. People are so incredibly ignorant about social programs. Social Security and Medicare are two EXTREMELY popular programs that the vast majority of Americans like and expect to rely on in their old age. To revile those programs as “socialism” is not only foolish and nonsensical, but reviling what the vast majority of Americans like, pay into every paycheck, expect will help them retire… You would do well to learn more about the society you live in. There are immigrants that have a better grasp of our civil society than a lot of Americans do…
There are no incentives to be productive in a socialistic society. It is simple human behavior.
But we don’t live in a socialistic society. Europe isn’t even a socialistic society. Europe is a market economy that realizes that societies do better when their people don’t have to worry about health care, housing, education. As I said above, Europe’s problems are NOT related to social benefits, but to a currency system created without the safeguards necessary to ensure it works properly. It is also simple human behavior to become fixated on a particular idea and not adjust when given new information.
The greatist nation in history was built on limited government, not socialist ideas. Maybe that’s a piece of new information you should consider. If your idea of currency safeguards is the printing press that does nothing but delay the inevitable while stealing from those saving money under the mattress.
You’ve got the broad brush strokes right, but you are all over the map when it comes to the details… Have a good one…
“We’ve become a nation of children who prefer candy and cash to competency and character.”
Personally I find that to be a very offensive statement as it implies that those of us who did not vote based on the bible don’t value competence or character, that we’re somehow lesser. I disagree with conservatives’ reasons for voting for Romney but I don’t denigrate their character and moral values while I’m at it.
“We’ve become a nation of children who prefer candy and cash to competency and character.”
It is propaganda.
Ask him if he has become a child who ” prefer(s) candy and cash to competency and character.”
So what’s up him not being a part of our Nation anymore ?
He’ll go tilt because you don’t understand …
(about THEM, and how we all know how all of THEM are … so you must one of them }
See, just the same old propaganda.
Not surprising so many muslins voted for him, “end to partisan bickering, polarization and paralyzing fear, and a new season of prosperity, justice and restored confidence in national leadership” wonder how that will happen for a President that seems to go against his own belief’s. Hard to believe 96% of black Protestants voted for him, seeing what he believes. Blacks didn’t vote for him because he was black, yea I doubt that.
You voted for Romney because he is a white, christian man over 60…..
Actually I would of like, none of the above. I had to pick who I thought was the better of the two.I would of like to see Condelissa Rice run (sorry for the spelling).
Why is it an issue when a black person votes for a black candidate, but not an issue when you vote for a white candidate? Sounds like massive hypocrisy — that’s why your party lost massively last week.
The issue is he has not done much but increased the National debt. Hypocrisy, now you want to tell me that a lot of blacks did not vote for Obama because he was black. Yea right.
Answer my question.
There is no issue that I see, I do believe a lot black for black vote is because of color. I would have not problem voting for a black person as I stated before. And yes, there are those that would vote for a white person because he is white. But becuase he is the first black President I think there is a difference
I think that is a flimsy basis for your belief that black people voted the way they did.
I guess you haven’t been paying very close attention. Obama’s contribution to the federal debt is less than the trend Bush was on, and that in spite of responding to the Great Recession. Millions of jobs were NOT lost because of saving the auto industry… all those small shops that provide parts and services to the auto makers, all those jobs WEREN’T lost. Our Gross Domestic Product, the output of the country, dropped about 10% in 2009… Obama’s admin stopped that slide into depression. Through the bank bailout the financial system of the entire world was stabilized. (He didn’t make demands on the bankers which he should have, but he did prevent a worse crisis.) Think what you like about Obamacare, but he passed health reform legislation in a big way, something presidents have been trying to do since at least Truman… And then there was Bin Laden. There is a lot he hasn’t done, no thanks to the obstruction by McConnell and Boehner, and there is stuff he has done that is despicable… but saying he has not done much is uninformed.
What was it when he came into office. Bin Laden that was going on before he came into office, though he gave the final decision. How about our Ambassador getting killed, the final report should be interesting. Interesting this report came out after the election about his top generals. Finanacial problems stem from Barny Frank and mixing the S&L with the Banks. Cash for Clunkers was a waste of money. What was fuel when he came into office compared to now? Obamacare you mean taking all that money out of Medicare, we shall see what that does.
“Jews, and Catholics overwhelmingly voted for President Barack Obama” COW PIE
It’s obvious that Bill Sherman has no idea about how either feel or has even paid attention to the core beliefs of their perspective religions….!
Both Catholics and Jews have expressed years of justifiable distrust and distain about Obama.
I want to say much more, but it will get censored, just like many of my conservative comments have-
And balderdash to you.
When was the last time you attended mass, or Temple, and/or how frequently…?
How much do “you” know about the teachings- Not Much…!
Gopher comes across as a very moral thinker . Cannot say the same for you …
Gopher moral…?
Both Catholics and Jews have not expressed years of distrust and “disdain” for our President. Even if you would like to say and think so. The majority have not.
No…
Go to Church, or Temple and ask someone how they feel about abortion
???? We know many who go to synagogues and churches and do ourselves. We hear and know that those people are compassionate people who believe in not judging others and who respect people making their own personal choices and decisions.
Unlike you, I do go, and I know of only 4% that did vote for Obama.
“and we do ourselves.” as said previously.
Do you have difficulties reading or do you only see what you want to see?
Apparently your particular church is not reflective or relevant to all people. Many prefer churches that are more reflective of the life of Jesus and how He treated people.
Good luck with your church.
I do support the Catholic Church, and it doesn’t support gay marriage, abortion or Obama…!
Don’t take my word on it, ask a Priest
How would you know that? Were you in the voting booth with them?
Your right, and neither were you, but I know these people, and they follow the Churches view, and it doesn’t support Obama
And yet according to PEW he won their votes ….. Whiich is to say —the balonety used to try to appeal to them— didn’t and didnt change their votes .Naughty name, by the way
Go to Church, or Temple and ask someone how they feel about abortion
Look at how they voted.
I have
Oh! You mean join a cult? Have them brainwash me with their dogma? No thank you.
You already did
If so many of you think socialism is so wonderful then move to Europe where you’ll be much happier. Don’t punish those of us who actually want to work hard and be rewarded for our success. It seems to me that our culture has become a “gimme” culture. Someone else can work hard and become successful but poor me, I’m too lazy and uneducated so the government should take away from you and give to me. I’ m retired, debt free, and have a comfortable income because I did work and become successful, not demanding the government take it away from someone else and give it to me. The day we were born we all had the same opportunities. Some of us made the most of it, others didn’t or chose not to, just let someone else take care of me. I realize for some government educated people that his will be hard to comprehend. I’m tired of pulling the wagon, I’m riding from here to the finish line.
Sounds like you were born in the days of prosperity and have benefitted from it.
These days are not like those days.
Happy Days never really existed but those days were long ago and far away.
Just a lame excuse. Validates my comment
I could suggest that wildly exaggerating partisans should instead consider moving to another country, or at least a compound of “true believers” and leave this great country to the rest of us, but I won’t.
Don’t give me that BS. I served our county in the military for over 20 years with two combat tours in VN. Typical liberal mentality.
Typical militaristic mentality.
LOL
I like a good chat with the intellectually challenged
Talk to your mirror.
LOL Excellent job proving my exact point
Ah, so you looked.
Ok, you can have your last wise crack. I usually don’t stoop to this level, been fun though
And a tip of the hat to you too. Thank you for being a good sport :)
Back at ya
Seeking your own level?
Well, good for you… You worked hard… You are to be bowed to, revered, patted on the back as a “true American” I guess… But as another true American I just gotta say, I don’t think my paying taxes so an elderly grandmother or a disabled worker has a measure of financial security, or that someone denied a good education, grew up poor lacking the same opportunities because of their skin color or where they grew up is “demanding the government should take away” from anyone… We all pay in one way or another for the results of poverty or for care for the elderly or the unfortunate put into circumstances beyond their control just like we all pay for the roads we use, the police or fire services that we may or may not use, the military that may or may not defend our way of life. If you want to live out your life in your selfish little bubble, go right ahead. You can pay your fair share that makes for a somewhat stable society like the rest of us, or you can be a freeloader and expect that rest of us to take up your slack…
As regarding the “evils of socialism,” perhaps if you are a vet you might want to consider the VA… the most socialist of all government institutions… govt run hospitals and services with govt employed employees… how’s that evil system working out for you or for any veterans you know?
You shouldn’t drink before you post. You might even make some sense, you never know, though somehow I doubt it. You whine like a jet engine. I had to pause so I could get my uncontrollable laughter under control. Must be easy to be a victim since there are so many of them. Oh yes, the VA, I’ve never been and never will. My medical needs are very small, besides, I’ve provided for myself. Anything in the private sector is much more efficient than government anyway. I don’t need a hand out from the government, you can have my share though somehow I think you are already getting it. As for “True American”, we could use a lot of them. My life has only been what your so called “True American” would have done anyway, nothing special except providing for himself and his family, not looking to be pitied, or for a hand out.
Ah, yes, an ad hominem makes the argument valid…
I am no victim and presuming as much rather than addressing the issue is a weak feint: nice dodge regarding the VA. Of course, you won’t ever use it… (right, but you didn’t address it’s evil socialism component…) And of course you don’t need a handout (even though I have a hunch you might be ignorant of the benefits you already receive…), you’re a self made individual, proud and self sufficient, a real Marlboro Man, the roads you drive on are all your own…
Your life is not much different from mine, friend. I work, I provide, I pay my fair share to make things work for all of us as best they can. Whether you are a willing participant in the good of the country or not doesn’t matter much to me.
Never ceases to amaze me, the intellect of some. I would dare say that I’ve paid in one year more taxes than you’ve paid in your life. I’m getting a good laugh though. Now I know why the Jerry Springer Show was so successful. A large pool to select from. You must be proud. Congratulations.
Apparently you don’t know what ad hominem means… your entire “argument,” relies on it… Proud… hmmm, yeah. I can see clear through the thin veneer of your arrogance to an aging guy that “has it all under control…” Right. Good luck to you, dude…
(oh, beware the mortgage deduction on your tax return… govt handout…) :)
Another “true American” who fed of the government for 20 years and never had to worry about what real American’s worry about.
Glad you had a good life on the taxpayers dime.
This issue has nothing to do with an individuals ability to make their way in the world. Humans have been doing that for about a million years.
This is about how to integrate government policy to support conditions that produces the best results for the civilization it is supposed to represent. It is about looking at where we have been and where we want to be a hundred years or a thousand years from now. That involves a certain amount of exploration to see what works and what doesn’t.
Europe is not socialist, it is a market economy that believes that people do best when they are not hampered by poverty, sickness and educational opportunity. You should know something about how a system like that works because you said you did 20 years in the military. Did you ever worry about housing? healthcare? education? No, I didn’t think so.
What you call socialism is the very system you spent your career. You did well apparently and that’s great. In the context of that system you could have done worse or even better, but you always had the security to back up your choices. Who do you think was paying your salary? Providing that security? The European system is about as close to the US military’s security as you can get. You have to be blind to not see that.
Took the mortgage deduction one year, then paid it off. Not much of a hand out there. Wasn’t looking for one anyway. I wonder how many will read your post and get a good laugh as I have. Many of us understand the intellect that despises success and independence. Liberals never will get it though. You had the same opportunity I had, I chose to be ambitious and do what I could to make the most of it, apparently you chose differently. Just being in the military doesn’t mean you’re getting a free ride. A lot of rights and freedoms are left at the door. Thats the sacrifice you make. By no means the easy road. Unless you’ve been there you wouldn’t understand. I won’t ask you questions, then answer them the way I think you would. I’m not as preceptive as you apparently think you are. I would just say that my second career took me to six of the seven continents in this world. Sadly, you wouldn’t know poverty if it were standing beside you and tapping you on the shoulder. Not blind at all.
I acknowledge that you’ve done well and of course there are unique challenges to a career in the service. My point was that you had a safety net weather you used it or not. You said yourself you didn’t get a free ride and nobody is talking about free rides, we’re talking about how you were successful in a totally socialistic environment.
I loved the military when I joined at 16; made soldier of the month and made E-5 in two years, The education I received opened my eyes to the bigger picture and I could no longer support the Vietnam war.
I will put my “boot strap” credentials up against anyone. I rose to the top of each and every organization I was involved with. I made it to the top of a major corporation. I live in Thailand and see poverty each and every day. I also see the struggle between opposing political ideology. I appreciate history and try to understand what it is trying to teach us.
I too own my beautiful home and am debt free. I produced two wonderful kids who are self-sufficient. Don’t assume that liberals can be all lumped together. I’m glad you think what I’m saying is funny, but consider how it makes you look to be so closed to ideas. Your point is that you did it this way, so everyone should, but you can’t escape the fact that you did what you did with a significant safety net that you now want to deny to others. Do you even understand that your pension is at risk?
There were days when I wished I would have stayed in the military and enjoyed the security of it all, but I chose to make it in the real world where I got to produce excellence without someone holding my hand.
Let me simplify it for you. I was extremely successful because I could lead people. We were all working for the same thing; to produce excellence. We were not hampered by laziness, we were destroyed by bean counters at the top taking a massive skim for shuffling papers. Hundreds of my former employees are unemployed because of it. I could be worth millions if I would have cooperated with the skim, I was literally asked to abandon the people who made my success possible and plied with money and status.
Greed is what’s draining the life from our economy. Peoples lives are destroyed and all we have to show is $25 trillion parked offshore doing absolutely nothing.
I don’t care how many continents you’ve stepped foot on. It is clear from your words that you cannot see what is right in front of you.
A quick review of the comments shows that several months of campaign brainwashing apparently doesn’t end when the election is over… that’s too bad. Come on people, we are all Americans… we aren’t red and blue states, we are not Republicans vs Democrats, we are the citizens of the United States of America. The election is over and we’ve all survived it (so far). Why not give it a rest and begin treating each other as fellow Americans instead of enemies.
In four years we can all return to entertaining all the fancy campaign doomsday predictions. But until then, why not step out of the sweat tent and put down the kool-aid. The aliens are not coming to get us and doomsday is not looming. The government is not robbing the rich and giving to the poor, no one is knocking on your door or taking your money, no one is requiring you to change your religion, no one is going to make you marry someone of the same sex if you don’t want to, no one is going to force you to have an abortion if you don’t want to… believe it or we still live in a democracy!
I thought we lived in a republic. A democracy is mob rule which allows for minorities and individual rights to be oppressed.
Churches are like little governments. They compel people to pay tithes, just as government compels people to pay taxes, in order to do “good”. It’s funny to me that church going people have a problem with government because they are basically the same thing. I guess they just think they already gave, so they don’t like the idea that they have to give again. Maybe they’re forgetting that the tithes they pay are tax deductible.
The evangelicals that supported George Bush and his torture regime and illegal wars have some “splaining” to do… but they seem to block out that inhumanity to our fellow human beings when confronted with their decision to support such barbarism.
Religion has no place in politics. One person’s god cannot be defended or defeated against another person’s god… Israeli Prime Minister Rabin was assassinated by a religious Jewish zealot because he realized that religious arguments between the Palestinians and the Israelis were impossible to arbitrate by virtue of their not relating to “on the ground” issues such as political borders, water rights, land rights and publicly rejected the idea that religious arguments had a place in negotiations. It is ridiculous, albeit not likely to go away, that evangelicals will try to force their narrow world view on the majority of non-religious or moderately religious people that adhere to the notion that there should be a separation of church and state.
See the film, What’s the Matter with Kansas, (or read the book by the same name) for a good discussion of the self-defeating adherence many evangelicals hold to public personalities like Bush or Rob-me, in spite of those very people using them for their own narrow agendas and creating policy that directly hurts many low income evangelicals economically…
There was a really good op ed in the New York Times not too long ago that talked about the incompatible positions of people who claim to be pro-life.
“In my world, you don’t get to call yourself “pro-life” and be against common-sense gun control — like banning public access to the kind of semiautomatic assault rifle, designed for warfare, that was used recently in a Colorado theater. You don’t get to call yourself “pro-life” and want to shut down the Environmental Protection Agency, which ensures clean air and clean water, prevents childhood asthma, preserves biodiversity and combats climate change that could disrupt every life on the planet. You don’t get to call yourself “pro-life” and oppose programs like Head Start that provide basic education, health and nutrition for the most disadvantaged children. You can call yourself a “pro-conception-to-birth, indifferent-to-life conservative.” I will never refer to someone who pickets Planned Parenthood but lobbies against common-sense gun laws as ‘pro-life.'”
“We’ve become a nation of those that depend on cash and candy”………….well, Reverend, THAT can be interpreted many ways. Company’s and other nations supporting exportation of American jobs have gotten their share of cash and candy. I think it’s time to pay. Those company’s that are American based, but have moved production facilities out of the country……aren’t gonna get their cash and candy any longer.
I am very proud to live in the first state to approve same sex marriage by popular vote! I am equally proud that Maine voters rejected the biggest liar who has ever run for president, and flushed the tea-potty by a resounding margin.