AUGUSTA, Maine — The president of the Maine School Superintendents Association questioned Gov. Paul LePage’s numbers and methodology after the governor criticized the state’s public education system for having too many administrators.
In a breakfast speech Wednesday to the Bangor Region Chamber of Commerce, LePage chastised Maine’s public education establishment for being top-heavy. The governor said the state has 127 superintendents to educate 186,000 students, which he compared unfavorably to Florida, where 57 superintendents oversee the education of 2.7 million students. He also reiterated his “double dippers” complaint about school department retirees, in this case superintendents, who return to work after qualifying to collect their pensions.
MSSA President Paul Stearns, superintendent of School Administrative District 4, which comprises six small towns in the Guilford area, said LePage’s comparison of superintendents in Maine to their counterparts in Florida lacks validity. Superintendents in Maine, especially those in smaller districts, are much more “hands-on” than superintendents in Florida, who assume more political and managerial roles while overseeing education for an entire county, according to Stearns.
“It’s easy to take national data and misconstrue it,” Stearns said of LePage’s remarks. “Using that same rationale, Maine would only need a governor for about 12 days a year.”
State and federal mandated reporting requirements are the same for large and small school districts, Stearns said. Arguing that Maine superintendents complete work that’s delegated to lower-echelon administrators in Florida, Stearns said, “We could have a county superintendent, but someone else would have to do the job at the local level. We do not have a plethora of administrators.”
LePage also failed to differentiate between superintendents who work full time and part time.
According to the Maine School Management Association, the state has 94 full-time superintendents and 33 part-time superintendents, “some of whom work only a few days a year” to allow small districts to comply with a state law that they have a superintendent. In total, they earn $11.47 million, according to a salary report posted on the Maine Department of Education website.
The governor did not offer any specific initiatives to reduce school administrative costs or his suggestion for an appropriate number of superintendents. LePage’s comments reflect his focus on putting “teachers and students first” and “getting more money in the classroom,” Adrienne Bennett, LePage’s press secretary, said Wednesday.
At least one Maine superintendent agrees that the state could get by with fewer administrators, with the caveat that the governor must do more to make it possible to shift spending from administration to instruction.
“I believe we have too many superintendents,” said William Shuttleworth, who served as superintendent of both school districts when Bath and four neighboring towns in School Union 47 consolidated to form Regional School Unit 1 in 2008. “If the U.S. government can create systems to send checks to veterans and Social Security recipients nationwide, Maine state government should be able to achieve greater efficiencies that would reduce the need for local administrators.”
After more than 40 years as an educator, Shuttleworth, 65, retired earlier this year, one year into his tenure as superintendent of the Five-Town Community School District and SAD 28 in the Camden area. He now oversees education for four Monhegan Island students. In that role, he must complete the same “convoluted and complex” reports he did as superintendent of larger districts.
“The governor and [education] commissioner’s office could help streamline reporting to create efficiencies,” he said, suggesting a state template that smaller districts could use for mandated reporting and centralized curriculum development.
Bennett said the governor would be open to proposals like Shuttleworth’s. “The LePage administration has said if there are rules or regulations that the districts need to be relieved from — with the focus of getting more money into their classrooms — then, certainly, they are going to be looking at those issues and making sure they will benefit students,” she said.
Shuttleworth and Stearns dismiss LePage’s claim that “double dipping” makes schools less efficient.
“The notion that retired superintendents are taking jobs from qualified younger candidates is ludicrous,” Stearns said. “The number of superintendents qualified to do the job is critically low,” to the point where local search committees looking to recruit new superintendents often hire retirees as interim leaders because the few candidates they attract lack experience.
Shuttleworth, who identified himself as a “double dipper,” argues that the practice saves money. “The longer you stay in the system, the retirement benefit would be larger,” he said. “The few years extra you work by double dipping creates a savings. It is money that you’ve earned. It’s not like you didn’t deserve it or earn it.”
The number of Maine school administrators has been a target of criticism for years. In 2006, Bruce Katz, a Brookings Institution researcher who helped write the “Charting Maine’s Future” assessment of the state’s assets and liabilities for GrowSmart Maine, called school administrative costs excessive and a drain on Maine’s economy. He quipped that the state should change its nickname from “Vacationland” to “Administrationland.”
LePage’s predecessor, Democrat Gov. John Baldacci, made school consolidation the centerpiece of his second term. His administration’s efforts to reduce the number of Maine school districts to 80 fell far short. The Maine Department of Education lists 164 school districts on its website.
A 2006 American Association of School Administrators survey showed that 71 percent of school districts nationally had 2,499 or fewer students, but that those districts account for only 18 percent of all students. The Baldacci administration set 2,500 as an appropriate size for Maine’s consolidated school districts.
This will be one of the RARE times in which I agree with LePage, and it is on one fact only-that Maine has way too many superintendents and school districts. The number of administrators and the number of under-utilized schools with redundant facilities is the reason that the per pupil costs of education in Maine are higher than most other states. Combine that with the fact that most disctricts within Maine are so small that they can barely offer even a basic curriculum, shows that the school reform initiated under the Baldacci administration didn’t go far enough. The problem with LePage’s complaint is that he expects nothing else to change, just keep running all those under-utilized schools with redundant facilities, just do it with less oversight…so that the TeaPublicans can just keep complaining.
Throw in the assistant superintendents (like the Bangor one who’s on paid suspension), and all the principals, and we’ve got a heck of a lot of administration in this state.
do you think schools “run” themselves?
Agreed this applies even more to town gov’t. The quicker Maine moves to stronger county gov’t the more savings we’ll see.
LePage is making stuff up again. Surprise, surprise, surprise…
I’m sure that Ms. Bennett will be reporting out tomorrow that what he said was “misunderstood” and will tell us all what he “really meant”.
Making up what? He hit the nail on the head!
He didn’t make anything up. There factually are 127 superintendents in Maine, and 186,000 public school students.
Democrats pushing for consolidation made the same arguments, only with much more detail. Remember the ‘facts’ about how much ‘overhead’ money consolidation would save?
Has it?….time for the ‘brains’ at the BDN to find out or is it a lot easier to bash LePage for the shortcomings of Democratic administrations?
Okay, according to the data from the Maine School Management association, that means that the AVERAGE salary for administrators (including full and part time) is over $90,000. Seems a bit generous with the taxpayer dollars, doesn’t it?
I think LePage’s salary to sit in-office and no nothing but complain about issues he has no intent to fix and campaign for personally related issues… is a bit generous with the taxpayer’s dollars. Consider the National statistics for educational quality when it comes to our State… then tell me if we need LESS funding for our school system. Time for LePage to say good-bye to State leadeship.
The Governor is right there are way too many administrators. I work for a public school system. Our system has many “Coordinators” making $70K and above not counting the admins working in the schools themselves. Meanwhile Ed Techs leave do to poor pay and they are not replaced. Students lose out on the lack of support that was never replace. Consolidation was a joke it created more admin jobs than existed before. Compare and Ed Tech’s Salary to any Admin. It takes like 3-5 Ed Techs salary to make an average Admin’s salary. Veteran teachers are forced out or take early retirement. Replaced by very inexperienced teacher. Meanwhile the Admins don’t leave and keep getting sweet salary hikes as the years they serve go by. Those pay hikes could have paid for a 2-3 Ed Techs or 1 part time teacher easy! All of this is public information and can be very easily looked up. The schools need more people in the trenches working side by side with students and not pencil pushers who spew theories for a high price. This one is spot on! Go LePage! At last you are in the right pew in the right church.
We only have one governor for 1.2 million Mainers. But we have 127 superintendents for 186,000 Maine students. We’re spending wicked more on superintendent salaries, about $12,700,000.00 than we are on a governor’s salary.
superintendent DO more !
40,00 for Lauren LePage is “generous” 90.000 for a school superintendent is under paid. Wait til you see what the CEO of the “charter schools will be getting paid… Heck you can check out FLA.
Is that amount for just salary or salary plus benefits (usually referred to as “total compensation”)?
.
If you count benefits then LePage’s total compensation is more than $100,000 and by his “logic” he should only work 12 days a year because Florida with one governor has so many more citizens.
Gov. LePage is spot on right about this one, as usual. Maine has to start listening to this great leader if it wants to get out from being a poster for welfare states.
Yikes teacher unions the governor buster patrol is on the prowl. Do you feel the love.
I have many friends who are retired teachers. They all are Embarrassed as to how much money they get in retirement and especially in this down economy.
How long did your nose just grow with that incredible lie.
Teachers have earned that pension and are not drawing decadent type funds whatsoever.
If your friends are embarrassed they should give their pensions to the poor if they are so wealthy. They didn’t derive their wealth from teaching in Maine’s public schools.
My friends taught in PA, Ohio, NJ, CT. and NY. My friends are very generous with donations and volunteering. There is “No Incredible Lie”, you GUEST, just do not like to read my comments.
The average teacher retirement pay in Maine is under $20k. They are too busy working second jobs just to survive to talk to your ilk about their plight.
Teachers who were in the union in other parts of the country are earning over a hundred thou a year in pension retirements………So this would imply that Maine has had a poor union organization for a very long time.
No, it would imply that overall people make less in Maine than many parts of the US.
duh
I stand corrected on friends who are retired teachers that Combined the couples earn 125 plus in pension and retirement. All except the NJ retirees. They each get about that same amount. Sorry If I mis spoke. But still, this is far More in pension and retirement than our Maine teachers get who have retired.
They shouldn’t be embarrassed. They earned their pension doing a job that not “just anyone” can do.
Thanks for the info. You are correct that “not just anyone can do that job”. I will tell them what you said the next time I see them.
A strong point is that educators are able to retire and get their full pension and go back to work at the salary they had, I believe. And retiring at 2% for every year of teaching, administrating, working as a school secretary means that some could be getting the full amount of their most recent salary, plus, plus, plus!
People who have retired at less than normal retirement age are not permitted to return to the classroom or central office without penalty. http://www.mainepers.org/PDFs/other%20publications/After%20You%20Retire.pdf (Working After Retirement section)
I find it strange that Tea Party Paulie would use School Superintendents in Florida as an example. He mentioned how many there were and how many students were in the Florida system, but what he didn’t mention is pretty important. The requirements to be a Florida School Superintendent. In Florida, a candidate must be a resident of the county and be at least 18 years old. That’s it! A candidate could be a 7th grade drop out and still end up getting elected to the office of School Superintendent. The majority of School Superintendents in Florida are politicians and may not even have completed high school. Another thing that Tea Party Paulie forgot to mention about School Superintendents in Florida is that they tend to pack their administration with their cronies. You know the people Howie Carr refers to as “Hacks”. No requirements for them as well, that is unless you call being a “coat holder” (another Howie term) a requirement. Another major thing Tea Party Paulie forgot to mention is that Florida is seeing its nationwide ranking as far as education is concerned heading downward.
Wonder what the difference is between Fl. and ME for the number of students who are Home Schooled. Are there Gangs in ME that cause upset as often as happens in Fl.? Just thinking.
I am so happy to hear you are thinking again Hammock. I’m sure the answers to the questions you asked are available here (google.com)
You can surely google the info if this bothers you so much. Gangs in Fl. DO BULLY the rest of the school kids. Not sure about Maine having Gang related problems in school. The news here is always the liberal dribble of rant towards the Governor.
I think you have hit on something there. The goal is to privatize education by making public education look bad. That way the TP’s can get the cash. It worked with mortgages; it worked with credit cards; it worked with college loans. Tried to get the prisons, still trying to get the public schools…..demonize the teachers, exploit the working class and get their money.
Now when has LePage bothered to use valid facts ? LePage compares Maine and Florida because the two states are so very similar (not because he own a house there or anything hinky like that.) So let’s due compare shall we ? Florida has over 19 million people….Maine just over 1.3 million. Florida has over 65,000 square miles….Maine just over 35,000 square miles. Florida’s population density per square mile 353….Maine’s population density is- 43 per square mile. Florida’s largest city is Jacksonville population over 827,000….Maine’s largest city is Portland- just over 66,000. Florida’s number of counties 67….Maine 16. Florida’s demographics 74.5% English and 18.65% Hispanic….Maine English 95.4% other 4.6% (no offense to others.) So yeah… I think we can all certainly see just how similar Maine and Florida are in almost every respect……the man is a simpleton (no offense to simpletons.)
Fine, use Alabama as a comparison. 88 superintendents, but 4.5 million citizens, and about 500,000 public school students.
And how are the Alabama kids doing on those standardized tests they have to take? Are there any cities in ‘Bama that are larger than Portland?
Can’t stop with the population numbers.
Data please on similarities of Alabama and Florida.
And you do not want Maine schools to emulate the schools in Alabama
Thanks for making the Governor’s case even more eloquently than he did. Apparently, despite the facts that FL is geographically bigger, demographically bigger and more diverse and more populous, they still have fewer superintendents.
Unless one also counts the next layer or two or three down of Florida administrators that do work done by Maine superintendents the comparison is bunk.
Reread and get back to us.
Bullet points of the article:
– 33 of Maine’s Superintendents are only part-time.
– Maine’s Superintendents are more hands-on, while Florida’s are more political/managerial.
– Maine’s Superintendents complete work that is designated to Florida’s lower-echelon administrators.
In this respect Lepage is right – we can learn from Florida and other states on how to be more efficient and effective. As always Lepage blusters through something and doesn’t offer an alternative. What Florida has is a strong county gov’t that could transfer into significant savings throughout all cities and towns.
this would naturally lead to trimming school expenses in admin. baldacci was on the right path in consolidation but ran into the new england tradition of havng local control. add to this the various unions and progress was halted far from the original goal. slowly towns have consolidated some departments with other towns to save money but much more could be done. spreading out a tax base thoughout a county would be better as well. hopefully one county will be bold enough to do this and their success will spur others to do the same.
Consolidation is the key to starting a new course for the education, however, spreading the tax base would be fought by most people.
Okay we’ve done that already with mixed results at best and was fought by alot of districts. No doubt any other change will be fought but how to justify more money every year for a shrinking number of kids will come to a tipping point. Some organic change is happening as rural areas decide to close schools and bus kids to larger districts but will that be enough ?
No, that will not be enough. I don’t have the answer to that and wish someone will be able to find a way to help. As it is, our school was closed, our kids are bused to the next town, we are paying taxes on an a school building that is closed up. Why would anyone want to pay more taxes on an empty building? Glad this issue has come to attention as something has to be done. Also, the school where our kids now attend, has had far too many cutbacks for kids who deserve more than they are getting in education.
Why are you paying taxes for the school still? is it new?
Not one of Baldacci’s brighter initiatives, But leave it to the ultra-right to support him on that one. For the record, I thought Baldacci was incompetent. But LePage is rewriting the book on incompetency.
Not even apples and oranges. 40% of Maine is not organized, with no great overlap with county boundaries. Not applicable in Maine.
No, it’ s not perfect but it’s a starting place.
Valid facts….
This is how the system works. A potential superintendent works his/her way through the system. Becomes embedded in the old/boy girl network and in their final years of employment as they reach retirement age becomes a super… and then retires around $100k per year… passes his/her job on to the next person in line and moves on to another 100k plus job. Collecting both for over $200k per year. I know of an ex-super who bragged about the process.
http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2012/07/29/education/lewiston-superintendent-takes-a-stand-against-double-dipping/
I notice LePage didn’t praise the teachers and the school principal, who gave their lives to defend other people’s children. Teachers who ran to danger instead of running away. Anyone who doesn’t like teachers can go and attend those funerals and then tell us how little they are worth.
Yesterday the far right called all teachers unions thugs,
.
today they are DEMANDING that all of these same “thugs” be armed with assault weapons.
.
. … and so it goes.
Who called the teachers unions,”Thugs”? Picking at each party is the most negative way of thinking.
Google the words teacher and union thugs and you will find hundreds of references ranging from extremist blogs to the governor of NJ.
.
btw: When I say “far right” I do not refer to any party. I do not consider the far right as representative of Republicans. I am a moderate Republcian myself and have been a Republican longer than most folks posting here have been alive.
Consider the irony that there exist organizations called “Maine School Management Assocation”, “Maine School Superintendents Association” *and* a “Maine Principals Association”, and you get the picture of how these people really are living in Administrationland. Heck, the MPA has its annual spring conference late enough so they can all yuck it up at the Samoset and play golf and pretend to be doing the schools’ business. They do their fall conference in the spendiest hotel in the state in downtown Portland. You don’t just pay their salaries, you pay for them to yuck it up twice a year on the taxpayer’s dime. And that’s just the two things IN-state they go to. You wouldn’t be surprised how often they go to “out of state conferences”. It’s a scam, 100%. Manhattan, New York, has TWO districts, TWO superintendents, and has more population than Maine, and more students by far. How do they do it? Sure, they’re large and dense. But, South Dakota seems similar enough. They’ve got about 44 superintendents. Consolidation was fought HARD by MSSA, MPA, and
you might want to check out the ALL the “conferences” the GOV has been to. Good luck finding them though…This guy who says he LOVES transparency ; but doesn’t really. The only way we find out is when he says something stupid at one of them and the media is there and reports it .
It’s OK. The governor of Maine only has to work 12 days a year ya know.
Seems you forgot to mention the Liberals gatherings at posh resorts too.
Le page is just the TOOL of the Heritage Center, ed commisioner Bowen’ LAST employer and the source of his ed info. The Heritage Center’s GOAL is to promote the “free market” BY privatize every thing now in the hands of government; NOT good governance. Lepage would be wise to get better, and less obviously biased , sources of info.. He is nothing by a puppet, parrotting what he is told .Hertitage Center “facts” are NEVER right because they are always taken out of FULL context It’s called “spinning to win “. He also would be wise to realize he was elected Governor of MAINE, not FLA, to look at MAINE’S best interest not FLA’s or the Heritage Centers’.
A tool perhaps, but not the sharpest one on the rack, eh?
I’d like to know how exactly many assistant superintendents there are in Florida and in Maine. As far as I can determine, there are few in Maine. I think a better comparison is the total number of school administrators – despite exact titles which don’t actually tell you what the job description is.
He is constantly comparing Maine apples to Florida oranges.
I would happily chip in to pay his (one way) moving expenses.
LePage’s analogy is skewed (as usual), but his point is valid: there is much too much school administration in Maine. Had Governor Baldacci and the 2007 Maine Legislature done their work properly, school administration consolidation might have worked. It needs to be re-thought and re-enacted so it applies to all Maine school systems in a practical way.
First, do FL superintendents do the same job as Maine superintendents? Or do they have larger staffs than Maine superintendents? Any of the comment writers here have factual knowledge?
Second, Baldacci’s “consolidation” was a farce. As far as I can see the only thing that happened was the creation of an additional level of bureaucracy. How does our governor intend to address the issue? Other than complaining about it.
Third, unless you have done the job you have no idea whether the salary is fair or overpriced. Given Shuttleworth’s experience he, and others like him, may have some useful proposals.
Fourth, asking upper management’s opinion on efficiency guarantees an answer that does not address the inefficiencies and deficits of upper management. Maybe we should also be listening to those who have spent their careers “in the trenches”.
Fifth, demeaning and denigrating teachers and school administrators is a lot like insulting the waiter before he brings your dinner – the risks outweigh the benefits.
Apparently, the duties and delegation of supers in Maine and Florida do differ.
As usual the BDN pens an attack article that does nothing but prove the governor correct.
These taxpayer money vacuum chambers (school superintendents) should be cut in half!
Bruce Katz, a Brookings Institution researcher who helped write the
“Charting Maine’s Future” assessment of the state’s assets and
liabilities for GrowSmart Maine, called school administrative costs
excessive and a drain on Maine’s economy. He quipped that the state
should change its nickname from “Vacationland” to “Administrationland.”
Katz said that and he’s a liberal.
Why does the media allow Le Page front page and mike time to spout off his fact-less diatribes?
Editors should have grouped this story, and the editorial, with his latest re-assertion of the latest Forbes put down.
After two years of this continuous belly aching, the public needs to know the other side of the Le Page publicity. So far, he’s gotten too much of a free ride in the press, with the story behind the story coming out later as nothing more than a “what I meant to say…” voiced by his flack Adrienne Bennett – governor in the wings.
When has any of Augusta’s numbers been accurate? Look at DHHS for an example… or how about Charlie Webster’s fraud voters….
Actually, their ‘numbers’ are based on data submitted automatically by school districts…..the only question is what the definition of ‘administrator’ is?.
This data has been routinely collected by the State,,,,and if you find the right person in DOE ask to borrow their data element directory.
Lepage and his supporters hate Maine and it’s people. Luckily the feeling is mutual.
Way to go,governor (not). I love the 12 day governor analogy.
I guess he really can’t refute LePage’s true statement. And Shuttleworth IS double-dipping, where’s the mystery? Are they just miffed they are getting called on it?
In a classic study of school consolidation, David Kirkpatrick, a former superintendent from Easton, Pa. noted how a county wide superintendent’s office grew and grew as political control over revenue lessened and the district gained access to larger amounts of revenue…..feed the blob and it puts on weight.
The other side of the equation are the regulations that determine how the school operates. Special Education alone requires a staff of bureaucrats to make sure there are no violations that would trigger a law suit. Many of these regulations were laid on districts by the Federal government and we all know how much Maine’s educators love that Federal money.
Figures lie and liars figure. Such is the legacy of Paul LePage. Or to use another old saw: There are liars, then there are damn liars, and then there are statisticians. In Paulie’s case we might add another level: there are those who misuse statistics and pick and choose the statistics to suit their ideological bent.
LePage makes a valid point and Baldacci agreed with most of it, as did King. If we were able to resize the way schools are managed some money could be saved. It would also make it easier to tee up some needed reforms. If districts allowed freer movement of employees between schools without losing out on seniority and pay differentials, the classrooms would benefit.
For now, we are stymied. It will take some mighty brave people to move such an idea – we all worship at the altar of local control, but this is one case where it works against things. If LePage is willing to tackle it, let him. He does not seem to need to be loved by everyone. King was popular and could have pulled it off, but he lacked the desire and was afraid to upset people.
A problem I see is that LePage’s points are made through aggression, inappropriate argumentation and wrong facts much too often. His assertions are so muddied by his crass and argumentative rhetoric, not to mention easily exposed exaggerations and errors, the important ideas he might be sharing are lost in the racket he makes.
He is not the most likeable messenger, but that is not going to change. Now, how about making changes to the number of superintendents and school districtswe are financially su[pporting for a school population our size? Can anyone get going on this without getting derailed by the Superintendents association?
In my opinion its a good deal more then his likeability. He says ignorant things, literally.
Where does the leadership come from to get us through such a thorny and well defended issue? King may have had the leadership skills, but no will. This governor has the will, but no leadership skills. This is a tough issue that is going to get bogged down in esoteric argumentation quick. We need someone we trust with command of the big picture to champion the change we need. IMHO.
What else is new? LePage speaking without the facts or just making them up as he goes.
Bangor has a superintendent getting about $145k and an assistant supper who is paod about $100k to not work. Why was that job needed if they can get by without bobbie?