LISBON, Maine — Lisa Ward and Mel Cloutier gave up on ever getting married.
Sure, they could have had a commitment ceremony, but to Ward that felt fake, a pretend wedding for an imaginary marriage. They could have gone out of state, married in Vermont or New Hampshire, but the marriage wouldn’t have been honored in Maine and to Cloutier it wouldn’t have counted, not in the way that mattered to her.
“It’s like Monopoly money,” she said. “I want it to count in our state. I want to be recognized in my state, in my hometown, because I live here.”
So, after more than five years together, the couple exchanged commitment rings — stainless steel bands engraved with equal signs — and called it good enough.
“I didn’t know that I had put it aside already,” Ward said. “For a long time, it was, ‘It’s not possible, it’s not possible.’”
On Monday, it will be possible.
Ward, 48, a Lisbon town councilor and a sales consultant for F.W. Webb, and Cloutier, 41, an employee at L.L. Bean, will marry in front of Lisbon Town Hall, under the town’s old pine tree, surrounded by family and friends. They’ll be the first same-sex couple to marry in town. At least, they plan to be the first, even if, they joke, Cloutier has to camp outside in the snow and race other couples to the door.
“It is still, sometimes, surreal,” Ward said. “You know, there’s almost an urgency to getting married on Monday. In case it gets taken away again. There’s that knot in your stomach.”
The women met about 13 years ago. Cloutier was friends with Ward’s sister and her partner, and Cloutier and Ward would often find themselves at the same birthday party or barbecue or New Year’s party. Cloutier thought Ward was pretty and funny.
“I wanted to get to know her more than just the surface. I wanted to get to know what was inside that pretty little head,” Cloutier said.
But Ward was just getting out of a seven-year relationship. She didn’t think she was ready to date.
“I didn’t know it was going to turn into a relationship,” Ward said. “I really just thought, ‘You know what, I need to go out, I need to socialize. I need to be around people who like to be around each other,’” Ward said. She turned to Cloutier accusingly, “And you wore those awful pants!”
Gray wind pants aside (“I could hear them swishing as you walked!” Ward reminded her), their first date, to a Lewiston pizza place, led to a second date, which led to a third. It was casual, low-key, just what Ward needed.
“We didn’t even tell anyone we were dating for, what, four months?” Ward said. “We didn’t even tell my sister. We now know she figured it out.”
The couple moved in together after about a year, renting the top floor of an old Lisbon Falls farmhouse-turned-apartment building. They fell in love with the view.
“On a clear day we can see Mount Washington. In the winter we can see the falls,” Ward said.
Over the next dozen years, they saw each other through jobs, illnesses and life changes. With Ward’s help, Cloutier kicked her two-pack-a-day cigarette habit. With Cloutier’s help, Ward ran for Town Council and won. They built a life together.
Their engagement, however, was something of an accident.
On a sweltering summer day a few years ago, Cloutier sat in the living room and listlessly played around with her Facebook account. They’d long listed their relationship status as “domestic partnership,” but it wasn’t a term either of them liked.
Cloutier suddenly noticed that Facebook would allow them to switch to something that sounded a whole lot better. She looked at Ward.
“Hey, we can be engaged on Facebook,” she said. “You want to be engaged?”
Ward, trying to stay cool in front of a fan, said, “Sure.”
Within hours, friends and family members inundated them with calls and emails, wanting to know who popped the question, how she asked, when they were holding the ceremony.
“One of my best friends from college called me up and was like, ‘Lisa Ward, you know I am the first person you are supposed to call!’” Ward said
They weren’t really thinking about getting married at the time. They couldn’t if they wanted to. But they were engaged. It was something.
“Then it made it real when [the law] passed,” Cloutier said.
Both had volunteered for EqualityMaine, one of the largest proponents of same-sex marriage in Maine. Both were at a Yes on One election-night party in Lewiston on Nov. 6 when the votes came in.
The results were called after midnight. With nearly 53 percent of the vote, same-sex marriage became legal in Maine.
“We cried,” Cloutier said. “We hugged each other and cried. Everybody was clapping and cheering around us. We were hugging people and they were hugging us and we didn’t even know these people. That was an awesome night.”
Cloutier, who normally goes to bed shortly after sundown, was too excited to sleep until nearly sunrise.
“I was on Cloud 9,” she said.
Cloutier and Ward had been through 2009, when a people’s veto repealed the Maine Legislature’s law making same-sex marriage legal in Maine. They know the right to marry can’t be taken away from them this time, but the uneasiness lingers. So while they plan to hold a big wedding with all of their friends and family in the fall, they’ll have a smaller wedding on Monday, the first day the town hall will be open after Maine’s same-sex marriage law takes effect.
Cloutier will wear a suit and tie, Ward a dress coat and blouse. They’ll get their marriage license from the town clerk, then stand in the snow and say their vows with a friend who is a notary public presiding
Cloutier and Ward will take off their commitment rings and replace them with wedding bands, heirlooms given to them by another friend.
They’re nervous. And excited.
“It’s almost like the final chapter,” Ward said. “Like the final chapter in the book where you already know how it ends. It’s the rest of the story.”
And this is special in some way ? Ohhhh thats right because they are gay.
Did Santa Claus bring you a fresh supply of sour grapes this week?
Only sour to you because you don’t share my opinion. And your reply or attack has nothing to do with the article.
Yes , it is special….because finally they have the ability to marry just as you could. They certainly are just as special as you are.
Special because a group of Americans is enjoying equal rights under the Constitution for the first time in Maine.
it’s one tiny step for these two Mainers, one Giant leap for Maine.
Is that the only part of the constitution that is valid in your opinion,
it is the part of the Constitution that pertains to this article.
do you prefer to cherry pick liberty? tell me, did you support marriage equality at the polls or are you a libertarian in name only?
I believe 100% in the constitution, As a Tea Party Democrat I want it all.. are you for the second amendment, You know the gun toting freaks. or does that part of the constitution need to be abolished, in your opinion..I know its not with the article but since you brought up the constitution for the reason of protecting ones rights, I want to know if you are a constitutional bigot.
I was raised in a household of guns; my dad was a farmer and a hunter. why do you assume i’m a gun control freak?
It must be. I keep reading it..and nowhere does it say “gay” rights. Equality does not equal gay. If it’s that easy..equality would be a free for all.
that’s correct Brenda. Equal rights does not mean special rights, or gay rights, it just means “equal protection under the law”.
Equality IS a free for all, what’s wrong with equality?
and 53% of the Maine electorate
I’m of the 47%…and yes 47% still don’t agree with this
Just disagree then. But enough people wanted to treat their fellow human beings decently and as they would want to be treated.
You , once again, have the right to disagree but there is nothing you can do about these people gaining rights.
WHAT in the h**l does gay marriage have with “treating people decently”????? That comment is simply ridiculous. I treat everyone decently- i.e. I don’t treat gay people any different than I treat straight people. My objection to gay marriage is that, as an evangelical Christian, I believe the Bible teaches that marriage is between a man and a woman. That doesn’t mean I thinkg gay people shouldn’t be allowed to love and be with anyone they choose- that’s between them and God. They should have the same legal and property rights as straight couples. They should be able to be included as dependents on group insurance, etc. They should be allowed to have legal unions. I don’t believe they should be able to marry, which has traditionally a religious ceremony. I never cease to be amazed at how liberals scream bloody murder about the separation of church and state- until it suits their needs. I know what the response on here will be- I’m a right wing nut, religious homophobe clinging to my guns. Name calling is also a favorite liberal tactic. Despite the fact that not all marriages take place in church, marriage is a religious tradition and all the name-calling and vituperation in the world will make me feel any differently.
Wow you must miss alot. Some of the comments from the anti gay crowd were despicable. Guess you overlooked those.
Marriage is not just a religious matter. It is also a civil matter and it is therefore certain laws concerning marriage apply. And now, by law, gay people can marry as they should. You should not be able to marry , and yet they could not. No, we were not going to put up with that inequality and unfairness any longer (gay rights supporters.) I am so happy my gay friends, neighbors and others can now marry.
Marriage is licensed by the state and has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it is a religious ceremony. The church does NOT grant licensing to marry. The state does. End of clarification!
it is not ‘decent’ to deny fellow Americans equal protection under the law. Your church does not need to perform the ceremonies if it is against your beliefs.
problem solved!
next!
47% isn’t a good number for you or Mitt.
still its 47%…its almost a virtual tie
which is why the SCOTUS is deciding this issue very quickly, within the next session, I’m sure.
The founding fathers never trusted civil rights to the majority of voters; God Bless our Constitution.
I hope SCOTUS will do the right thing but I’m not betting.I was pleasantly surprised with Roberts and the ACA -can lightning strike twice?
hoping, too….but there is only 1 decision to make…clearly.
ya never know, tho
thank heaven then, Jack, you don’t have to marry a gay person.
problem solved!
oh now that saying’s original–how about this saying– one step forward and 2 steps back
look please, at the long and gloried history of our country. every time our country evolved, it evolved to include rights for more of its people.
First it was black men, then all women, now gay people.
Two steps forward. and two more steps. Our country is not going to go back to the dark ages.
It is special..being able to marry the person you love is very special! Can I take a stab and say you are divorced and bitter? Or alone and bitter? Hmmm?
I am neither divorced or single and bitter. I am single by choice and I don’t believe gay marriage is ethical.
then don’t marry a gay person.
problem solved!
married 3 children grown –not bitter at all–i made a statement of why this marriage is special and its because they are gay and its a new thing–how do you get bitter out of that? I may not agree with it but i harbor no ill feelings towards those that do–nothing wrong w/being happy–u prob shouldn’t take stabs at people commenting opinions on here –cause your not even close–with me anyways.
Good for them !
Yippie. Who cares?
I do agree that gay marriage becoming a non-issue is a Good Thing, both for Maine and for the United States. Let’s put this issue behind us, agreeing that our Constitution’s 14th Amendment means we treat all equally under the law.
Who cares? Everyone one of those couple that can finally marry and those thousands who spent so much time and effort and money to see that all couples are treated equally in this state, that’s who cares.
Yep..they get paper..yay
Oh no. Much more than paper. But if marriage means just a “piece of paper” to you, good luck to you and your spouse.
Ha! Nope. They wanted equality..to have benefits, and laws to suit them…not happening..so yep..all they get is a piece of paper for this state..federally? Nothing more than a souvenier.
How wrong you are. It’s a step that will result in the federal law tumbling down.
They get a lot more than paper. If you are married is that all that marriage means to you…paper? If so, then I really feel sorry for you.
Who cares about your whining?
I’m not whining…just sick of the news broadcasting crap that doesn’t matter…disabled couples uniting? Would be more newsworthy. Not everyone is “into” this way of life…so stop this bs already.
for some of us, this is a Constitutional issue, so, we are interested.
You are absolutely whining. I’m not into the Jewish religion, or onions, or volleyball, but I’m not about to go whine about it in public like you’re doing. Realize that your personal choices aren’t right for everyone else. Check your attitude and just be happy for other people — maybe you won’t seem like such a miserable person yourself.
I am most certainly NOT miserable. I am one voice who isn’t afraid to speak my mind. Sorry if that offends you.
And I’m speaking my mind and these people you’re whining about are just living their lives — so why are you offended and all worked up about it? Get over it. Some people are different than you! Welcome to the USA.
I’m worked up because you cannot have any view other than the accepting views. Tired of my children being FORCED into learning about this, tired of the endless broadcasting and bullying tactics. That is what I am tired of. To each thier own, I have no choice but to tolerate it, it is all of a sudden mainstream..but to accept it? I don’t have to. If I wish to comment, I will..sorry
You don’t have to like it — who said so? But it’s wrong to lie to kids and it’s wrong to try and hurt people just because you disagree with them or want to make different choices for yourself. If I’m a Christian, do I run around trying to criminalize Judaism? Do I bash it and try to teach children it is unacceptable? No, because I’m a mature adult and I realize that some people are different from me and that’s what makes the country great.
LMAO!
Guess what….every time you click back to the page that BDN gets $$$$ for advertisers. If you want to “stop this bs already” stop clicking on it, the BDN won’t make as much money and before you know it…”poof” the BDN no longer exists!
not everyone is ‘into’ be uneducated and asinine but here you still are brender……
Obviously you do, you took the time to come here, click and comment.
Obviously, this is getting to be fun..arguing with people who think they have all the right answers…;)
apparently you do…you seem to comment enough about it…
Best wishes for this couple! I have had so many friends and acquaintances express their happiness that I can now marry the love of my life.
As we enter into a new year, I am thankful to those hundreds of thousands of Mainers who joined together to affirm that YES, we should allow ALL Maine families the opportunity to protect the lives they build together with civil marriage.
And to all those folks grousing over their sour grapes as we hear of these happy couples… relax! Equality is not a finite resource, just because gays and lesbians have equal treatment under our laws does not mean there’s not going to be enough equality for you to keep your rights.
Happy Holidays, everyone!
so many, many more people share your joy than offer their bitterness. good luck to you an yours.
which one is the man? Does it work that way? Just asking.
You can’t seriously be THAT inane can you? Just asking.
Just a question. If you don’t know just say so. just saying.
It’s not a question – it’s a stereotype and stereotypes only exist because people are too lazy to educate themselves about topics they know little to nothing about. Read a book.
Lazy. I don’t think so. Are there books on this? Who would have thought. Ask an question about this stuff and some people get upset. Help us understand and we might be more able to accept this.
Do you really think anyone who is gay needs you or anyone to ‘accept’ them ? They don’t. If you or anyone can’t ‘accept’ two adults who want to get married- which I might add- has no affect on you and whom you don’t even know and whose marriage does not lessen your rights in anyway- then don’t accept it. All Americans deserve to be treated equally under the law and have the same rights and responsibilities as any other American is automatically afforded. If you don’t understand something- research it- look it up- vary your sources and be responsible for educating yourself about this topic or any other topic you have little understanding of.
You get mad really easy. If you don’t want to help me understand why don’t you just shut up? I have not said one bad thing about the happy couple and you are coming at me with hate in your text.
LOL.. I’m not angry as I wouldn’t waste my time. My point is that it is no one’s job here to educate you and if you actually think that reading something on here will make you understand about sexual orientation – you will be sadly under educated.
http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/index.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation
If you don’t want to answer the question “educate me” then stop posting on my comments.
Stop being lazy and educate yourself……
While there is obviously no “man” in the equation, there’s two clues that should help you out Blanco – the picture of course – and from the article, Cloutier will wear a suit and tie, Ward a dress coat and blouse.
Good call.
So……every women you know only wears a dress…..REALLY?
Not at all. Though that there is often a more feminine partner and a more masculine partner in a gay relationship isn’t exactly a well kept secret. Butch/Femme is even used by some gay folk in describing themselves, is it not? Is there harm in discussing this honestly?
I’m not judging. It is what it is.
my point exactly lol
You just want to try and stir up things on here. You are not interested in learning more and becoming educated, because if you were there is plenty of valid information, books,etc., and meeting and knowing people who are gay is another way most of us know that these people being able to marry is the right and fair thing.
Apparently they do need acceptance..or they wouldn’t have used those tactics to get where they are today…only now a days..if we don’t accept them..they bully their ways on us. So yea..if a person truly wishes to understand..by any means available? Get off their backs!
how are you being bullied?
yes we would the rights of inheritance, hospital visits and every other right that straight couples take for granted… THAT”s why we want acceptance. I do not want, or need acceptance from you…
and you will NOT get it, nor any other of these hand outs you so desire. There are more like me than you care to know..but treating us like pigs will get you nowhere…you want acceptance? EARN it.
they have earned it.
You sound awful.
“Tactics”…..you have got to be kidding. Someone like you can marry and yet you think these decent people cannot. Yeah right!
I sound awful? Good. Get over it.
My , how many usernames does that make it……trolling away…..
They needed it when they wanted us to vote for this. They actually begged for it.
NO KIDDING!
When was the last time someone got to vote on you getting married?? They’re called Civil Rights for a reason you shouldn’t have to have your civil rights voted on.
Why isn’t it a civil right for Mormons to marry multiple wives? Why isn’t it a civil right for an adult father and an adult daughter to marry if both are sterile and will not have children? Why Why why?
Perversions of nature do not equal a right to force your perversion on us. You asked us to stay out of your bedroom and we tried. Then you forced your bedroom out onto the streets. Nobody saw that coming right? Next we will see all the lawsuits on people like me who do not believe in your way of doing things.
because, because,because…..If you are naive enough to think that there are no polygamist people living in this country you need to get out of under your rock more. And do you actually think that things like a father marrying his daughter hasn’t happened in this country? Of course it has and why is it illegal ? Because the of the genetic issues it would create (i.e. shallow gene pool.) Perversions of nature is hilarious and you assume I’m gay – I’ll take that as a compliment thanks. The only way you will get sued is if you break the law and discriminate which was illegal in Maine long before same sex marriage was passed. So don’t break the law and you won’t get sued act like a donkey’s rear end and you will get sued guess that’s up to you. I hope you have a big bank account lol.
See that’s what I mean. Supposedly all you wanted was just to be let alone. The truth is you create a whole new protected set to society. As if we don’t have enough special cases running around now we have to have the gay whiners out there crying “I’m special and he’s picking on me” wa wa wa. Hopefully people in Maine wake up to the horrible thing they have done and undo it as California did. It can be done.
Hahaha You really have to be careful how you ask questions on these issues with the gay population..no matter how well put forth the inquiry may be -you will be attacked ! They have been every bit if not more vicious in responding to folks who do not share their opinions on the onset of this whole gay marriage fiasco.
I see that. I feel the heat. LOL
you get what you give….
“You will be attacked”. All in your mind. Are you really that weak?
you are the weak one..hiding behind the rest of these folks…you wouldn’t be so loud one on one.
Oh yes, very much so. Voted yes on gay marriage and spoke out in favor. You sure don’t know very much.
…….
Too many big words for you brender?
No..you are just slinging nonsense and being a hateful slob…like most of you rainbow chasers are ;)
and there’s the hypocrisy of calling someone hateful…you take the prize my dear.
and nobody asked you..so go back under ur rock deary
you’re in a public forum dear….don’t comment if you don’t like the responses
Exactly..same goes for you….lol
They have a book on how to be gay?? I didn’t know there were rules. I’m going to the book store today. Thanks!!
You’ll have to learn how to read first….good luck with that.
hahahaha
it came with the toasteroven
well, since neither of them have a penis, neither of them are the man
Did you ever graduate high school? Are you ignorant or just being ugly? Just asking.
Google homosexuality and you’ll learn that it is two women in a lesbian relationship, and two men in a gay relationship.
Actually…in these relationships, one is usually more masculine or feminine. And do take on specific roles. So no..that was a valid question asked.
Thank you.
No it wasn’t a valid question because it’s none of this gd business.
Well…if he/she is not free to ask a question about this stuff..to perhaps enable a possible understanding of it…then YOU my dear, have NO “gd” business pushing it down our throats…check?
What exactly is getting pushed down your throat ?
who is pushing anything down your throat? are you being forced to marry a gay person?
Being treated equally under our laws is not “pushing it down our throats”… No one is forcing you to go to a gay wedding, nor is anyone even forcing you to read these articles. Certainly no one is forcing you to comment here.
…wait– if someone IS forcing you to comment here, send us a sign! Respond with something ignorant and prejudiced if you’re being held against your will, and we will send help!
Heyyyy.if you are free to accept , submit and say yay, I am free to not accept, dodge and say blah! Don’t forget..there are 2 sides here….deal with it.
Simply pointing out where you’re wrong. You don’t have to agree with gay marriage, interracial marriage, or even divorce. But it’s not getting shoved down your throat, you are choosing to come here and argue.
wrong. during voting season..could you count on one hand how many Vote No signs you seen? Vs. how many Vote Yes there were, parades, events, flyers..yea, pushed down our throats, NO voters were bullied into submission. THAT is where I drew the line. It was NOT a fair debate. 2 sides, 2 views…only 1 side didn’t get their rights to show their support…take a good look..you will understand my point.
Oh waaah! The Yes side was organized and ran a first class campaign and opponents were disorganized and never gained traction with the voters! Sob!
Actually, yes… I saw far, FAR more “No” signs than “Yes”. Especially along 3 from Ellsworth to Agusta. Nothing has been pushed down your throat, and you cannot cite ANY instance of anyone being “bullied into submission”. You just lost. It really is that simple.
Nobody has affected your rights in any way.
There were easily 10x as many No on 1 signs for every Yes sign I saw in my area.
Ditto. Here in Lisbon Falls, it was the same thing. It’s no wonder that these ladies (and others) reactions were so dramatic, given the sign poll.
I was cautiously optimistic about the vote, though the preponderance of no signs certainly added some doubt.
Unfortunately for the no folks, more signs is really all they had going for them.
It’s not being pushed down your throat… you came here because you WANTED to be exposed to it.
If you really don’t, stop voluntarily reading up on it.
Oh..I get the news just like the rest of you…I need a comedy at least once a week to ensure me what a screwed up world I live in.
Brenda did someone force you to come to the BDN website and force you to read the story or did you do it by choice?
So there is a man and woman traits in a relationship like this?
what about your relationship? are there man and woman traits in your relationship?
There is. That is why I am asking. If you don’t know then just tell me.
99% of people engaged on this comment section are discussing this issue from a Constitutional perspective. If the only perspective you care to discuss is ‘who is on top’, then pardon me while the rest of us treat you like the child you choose to behave like.
Again you have nothing to offer on my question.
Think about your question for a minute.
Do you take out the garbage?
Have a job?
Own property?
some people think those are ‘male’ traits.
Does your man hold his children?
Respect your right to own property?
Do the dishes?
then some people think those are ‘feminine’ qualities.
in your relationship, do you get on top? isn’t that what you are really asking?
Example: MY friends I mentioned above. One is more masculine. She takes on the role as provider, does the (what we might call) manly chores yes, the other is more feminine, who takes on the mother-like role. It isn’t who does what in bed…they do have different roles in these relationships…so answer IF you know what you are talking about…and stop being retarded.
My hubby was out of work and I paid the bills for a year. Did that mean my gender role changed? He also was a very nurturing father. Does that make him a woman?
Geesh…stop acting like you know everything..and befriend some gay couples and yes, you will notice yourself. Lordy..
Are they just best girlfriends that go shopping? Do they Hunt and fish together? Who kills the spiders? both? Is gay just best friends getting married because they want insurance? I thought Oboma fixed the insurance thing. I am just trying to figure it out. Not the sex. Because who cares about sex.
coy
I have no idea. I’m not in a same sex relationship but I think my other comment still holds. It’s simply none of your business and I suspect your original question was simply an attempt to insult. I’ve seen that question before and it’s almost with the same intent.
They are the ones on the front page of the papers web sight. If they wanted privacy they would have kept it quiet. I believe it is a valid question and I mean no disrespect.
web site.
web sight would be like a spider web with glasses.
i guess you’re beginning to see how education matters. or maybe not.
You corrected my grammar. I guess that makes you right about everything. Is there a reason for the single in the singletrackgirl?
yes, thanks for asking! Single Track refers to mountain bike trails. I’m guessing blanc 12 refers to your education?
no she corrected your spelling
Really? It was in MY streaming news on my wall…probably was thiers as well. Stop attacking Blanc12 and answer them with some dignity!
that’s the point Brenda. The ‘question’ (who is the man?) HAS no dignity.
girl…its a public forum…its streaming news on everyone’s wall.
Yea..point made…so I think we are all welcome here..regardless if YOU like it or not..lol
I am more than pleased that you are here voicing your opinion. Hate and discrimination do not bear the light of day. Your comments are the perfect example.
All Trackgirl does is attack. This is what she calls fun. She has attacked me on other discussions. If you are not on her side she will try to discredit anything you say. This is because she usually doesn’t have a valid argument.
that’s called debate in an open forum. you are free to defend your statements at any point.
Do you ask the same thing when you see an opposite sex couple on the front page or any page? Merely because one is male and one female doesn’t necessarily mean they occupy those roles in the marriage you know.
I looked at your facebook page you are so kind to provide, Brenda. And I’m asking…who is the masculine one in your family? It’s a valid question.
****
now, having asked that of you, do you see how rude a question that is?
The couple have a right to equal protection under the law, to marry. You and blanc12 want to prove your immaturity in a public forum, I guess that’s your right, too.
So, I guess I’ll defend your “right to be a gossiping, finger pointing fool”. apparently, that’s the message you and blanc are promoting this morning.
You are just mean. You are also easy to wind up with just a simple
question.
no meaner than you and Brenda. what’s the matter, don’t like your own medicine?
ps. your second sentence doesn’t make sense.
corrected my sentence. Hope this makes you Happy, Happy, Happy.
equality is just a game to you, isn’t it?
I have not said anything about equality or that they shouldn’t marry. I just asked a question. If it just doesn’t work that way (one as the man figure) you could just have said so without getting all upset.
and i’m asking the same question of you…apparently you found the question offensive or we wouldn’t be having this back and forth.
which is my position entirely…its a rude question which seeks to sneak a peak? ogle? whisper and point fingers?
you’re just hiding behind ‘oh, its an honest question’. most of us see through that. it seems you and Brenda don’t often engage in conversations with adults, or you’d realize how weak your point is.
You are small minded. Don’t like anyone disagreeing with you. Grow up.
according to you, I have nothing to disagree with, you’re just asking an innocent question.
It is impossible to have a serious conversation without them calling you some sort of name. Most notable if you disagree you are homophobic, next is hypocrite. I do not even dare to repeat other things. Seems though this is a favorite subject of BDN, probably because of being a liberal paper.
Exactly!
She is not the small minded one.
ADULTS? A bunch of pansies are adults? Dang….
Pansies are flowers brender……
well, some of us are engaging in an adult conversation. join us some time.
Equality is a basic right for all. It does not mean free to do wtf ever you please. There ARE exemptions you know.
there should be no exceptions to equality, that is the greatness of our country, of our constitution.
what exceptions, brenda?
Ok..so lets give equal rights to murderers, pedophiles, abusers, etc….they should have thier rights too then..yea? NOT
heterosexual murders have as much right to a jail cell as homosexual murders. i don’t understand your point.
you do understand the difference between consenting adults and victims of abuse, don’t you?
Umm no….I am still in kindergarten
thats what i thought
Clearly kindergarten- don’t forget to run with the scissors….
People in kindergarten have more intelligence and compassion than you ever will.
Actually murders, pedophiles and abusers all have the right to marry……go figure brender……and yes they all have rights…..
Brenda…
Murder is a crime
Pedophilia is a crime
Abusing people is a crime
Being a gay man or woman is not a crime.
Hasn’t been since Lawrence v. Kansas
You complain that supporters of gay marriage are rude and intolerant of your disapproval, yet at every turn here you insult and belittle our fight for equality.
And now you show that you do not understand why victimizing others is a crime??
You are a sociopath, and need help.
At least you admit you are not a person of faith, and that is obvious.
being LGBT is not against the law brender…..
It has been and still is in some places. Go to Saudi Arabia and change them. Egypt is another place all of you should take action. All those repressed gay people. These are the gays that are really suffering.
Do we LIVE in those countries blanc12 ? No this is an article in the BDN about a Lisbon couple keep up……I have a hard time you care about anyone who is gay that may be ‘suffering’ regardless of geography.
I replied to someone. Why do you have to twist all I said. But it is true I don’t care if gays are suffering without being married. Of course I don’t care is straight people are suffering without being married either.
we have the American Taliban….and here she is^^^^^^
they also stone to death women who talk back to their husbands, women don’t vote and can’t own property in Saudi Arabia, Egypt. This is the bastion of civil law that you strive for? Sharia law? not our constitution?
Oh, and someone like you gets to decide the exemptions!! Thankfully, that is not the case.
I’m not mean..I am standing ground on my beliefs just as much as you are. When they start broadcasting something besides what every gay couple is doing..like maybe important issues for a public in whole..then you won’t see us. I’m not hopping on your bleeding hearts train. Gays can do as they wish..but gee..do we have to read every story they tell? I didn’t get front page when I was engaged :/
exactly! you were asking that question (using smoke and mirrors) to hide your real opinion.
your question was not an honest, innocent question like you said…it was more ‘sour grapes’…just like your last sentence…whining that you didn’t get the front page for your wedding.
tell me, Brenda, did you have to ask the voters of Maine to support your right to marry? no, your marriage is not ‘news’.
Umm..I didn’t ask a question. Smoke and mirrors? What kind of drugs are you on?
“Brenda Marie ConvivialVisits • 3 hours ago
−
Actually…in these relationships, one is usually more masculine or feminine. And do take on specific roles. So no..that was a valid question asked.”
***************
keep up hon, try to keep up.
Duhhh…apparently you missed it. I did NOT ask the question..it was an example..so hows about YOU try again and get off my back lil girl?
Someone else asked a valid question and was not rude in doing so…I am on the defending end..so eh!
it’s a comment section. people discuss issues. if you all you can do is threaten, then you really don’t have much of a grasp on your own ideas, do you?
just a question…just askin….
apparently better than the ones you’re on
And she thinks she is being “stalked”….omg!
You mean re-engaged to get remarried don’t you ? Pretty sure that divorce and remarriage is in the bible and it’s not considered a moral thing…..but hey keep waiving your finger at everyone else and pretending you are somehow better……what ever you need to do to convince yourself brender.
Oh shut up TLM…all you do is talk crap and stalk people. Folks like you belong behind bars. Anyhow..carry on….you’re not worth my effort here.
Awwwwww poor brender.
she likes to give it, but she can’t take it
Nah..not poor me..I know who you are now…lmao!
yeah, no you don’t……but keep trying…..LMAO
Yeah..I do…so keep talking ;)
hello kettle meet pot
Besides..at least I don’t have to hide behind a wall to speak my mind as you obviously do ;) Bye bye creeper boy.
clue 1..you’re on his friends list..female..must I go further? Shall I post your name and address too?
Knock yourself out kutlASS442
knock yourself out…..
I would, but I’m not a child such as yourself…all that matters is…I know, Tracy knows and guess what? So will a few more who don’t particularly care for you ;)
No just honest….
If you think that is honest then you must be a fool.
Yep….if we..or anyone is on the “other” side of the fence..are called all kinds of BS and immature? Immature why? Because we don’t agree with it? Because we were brought up with MORALS? Sorry, they didn’t teach us homosexuality class in school like they are forcing down our childrens throats today…you may see it as a rude question..but hey! At least they asked..and no, they were NOT rude. The replies were rude. They could’ve been like me and said hey…which one wears the dildo? Then you could say it was rude.
why is equality for American citizens immoral?
how can we explain discrimination to you in a way that is not offensive? discrimination is offensive.
how is homosexuality being ‘shoved down your throat’?
Do you think heterosexual couples don’t use dildo’s? please.
Brender, you seem VERY interested in gay relationships and gay people….what’s up with that?
I’m interested in knowing what the hell happened to this country over the past 30 years. Where in the HELL did it become a crime to be anti-gay? That’s MY interest…not what these folks are eating, buying and who they are sleeping with.
it became a crime when people like you discriminate against gay people.
maybe in your world..
Actually it is a crime if you discriminate in this state against sexual orientation or gender or race etc, etc, etc…..duh.
I am not discriminating anyone of anything..I just don’t agree with it..SORRY!
…
It’s not a crime to be anti-gay, anti-black, anti-Jew, anti-Christian, etc., granted you don’t break the law. Your first amendment rights give you the right to speak out against any group you don’t like as well. Don’t confuse legality with evolving social mores.
I keep hearing this 30 years thing…where is this coming from? The
downhill slide apparently started under Reagan and continued through a majority of “conservative” Republican presidencies and Senates. Weird huh?
“Yep….if we..or anyone is on the “other” side of the fence..are called
all kinds of BS and immature?”
Maybe you didn’t follow the BDN comment section prior to the vote in November. If you have you might understand some of the feelings that are expressed. Back in 2009 some posters were calling for the tossing of gays into the Penobscot like Charlie Howard was tossed into the Kenduskeag.
~~~~~
“Immature why?”
See above.
~~~~~
“Because we don’t agree with it?”
No, because you are free to agree or disagree but you have to learn to tolerate SSM. It’s here. It’s not going away. What if one of your gay friends decides to tie the knot and invites you to their wedding or asks you to participate in it? What then?
~~~~~
“Because we were brought up with MORALS?”
And gay and lesbian people are “immoral”? Just because you don’t agree with who they love or choose to sleep with doesn’t give you the right to judge them. Many people thought (and some still do) believe interracial marriage is “immoral”
~~~~~
“Sorry, they didn’t teach us homosexuality class in school like they are forcing down our childrens throats today…you may see it as a rude question..but hey!”
I don’t know of one school in Maine that has a “homosexual curriculum” do you?
~~~~~
“At least they asked..and no, they were NOT rude. The replies were rude. They could’ve been like me and said hey…which one wears the dildo? Then you could say it was rude.”
No Brenda the question was rude. There are male dominate marriages and female dominate marriages in heterosexual relationships. So why would you expect anything else in a homosexual or lesbian relationship?
If my gay friends invited me..I would go..in respect for MY friends. I can keep my feelings to myself..but will I ever accept it in general? No.
Well that’s one answer to one question. Would you care to answer the rest of the question asked?
You were brought up with MORALS! Seems it didn’t take..
Really….why is everyone so interested in stalking my page? Gee…have I struck a nerve? Again? LMAO
you do know that there is a link under each reply that says ‘link to users website’, right?
How long have you been in a same-sex relationship?
I’ve been with my soul mate for over two decades now, and neither of us “takes on specific gender roles”.
That is all I was asking. Thank you.
Like you even know what you’re talking about Brender….lol
Actually I do…believe it or not…I have known and have many gay friends and this is common..so hows about you go back to ur cloud…and educate yourself a bit.
so ask your gay friends this question, see how long they remain your friend.
I really doubt that brender……like anyone gay would be friends with you LOL. Try again.
she has a lot of black friends, too.
Bahahahahahahaha PERFECT !!
You must be one of the imbred ones round here
No my parents are not related…unlike yours LOL
there’s no such word as ‘imbred’.
there goes that ‘education’ thing again…poor boo boo
welp..actually, I only have 1 black friend I call a friend…dang…I’m glad you know so much about me..lol. Wishful thinking.
Ya. But is the black friend gay? Gay is the only thing that matters today.
No, I doubt very much they would want to know you and your friend in your picture there.
Pft! lame
No..YOU try again. Some people don’t push crap on everyone. My friends aren’t like you. They may be gay yes, but they don’t go around acting like idiots. Nor cry about rights. they do what they do..and live thier lives..period.
That you actually believe that your so called ‘gay’ friends don’t care about equal rights just shows how little you actually know anything about them…..or people in general.
Like I said..go ask them..why not? you think you know me..so you should know MY friends..right? You don’t..so stfu
Yeah here’s the really cool thing -I don’t have to STFU and what even better is that I’m not going to…..thank you for playing LOL
Obviously not…you have an awfully large mouth..
Ummm I’m typing- requires no mouth size genius…LOL
so, you only like gay people who don’t want equal rights? why should you and mullet boy marry and not ‘your friends’.
They did not teach me about gay relationships in high school. I have found that educated people are not usually all that smart. They are able to tell you what others have written about but they can not think for themselves.
Never been out of your hometown much, have you?
LoL. If you only knew.
Typical response to a decent post..go figure.
Nothing “decent” about it.
Your understanding of gay citizens is about on par with my understanding of Swahili… and I don’t speak Swahili.
said the girl who didn’t go past the 12th grade.
poor little darling. you don’t even realize how inane you are.
12th grade? She made it that far?
who’s the man in your relationship?
The man. Who is to say it isn’t two men.
sure. sure.
can’t get one sweetheart or you are the man?
oh smack. how will i recover from your amazing rebuttal?
LOL wish I could like that a few dozen times.
neither, since neither of them have a penis
Actually, no, it doesn’t.
Thank you for an answer. That is all I ever wanted.
What a small little mind you have.
Best wishes to this couple and to all the others who will be able at long last express their love and devotion for each other by being married!! God bless!!
Lisa and Mel, congratulations and may you live long and happy lives TOGETHER!
who the hell cares!!!
I for one am delighted to read these stories of happy couples finally afforded access to civil marriage!
But to each their own. Why did you care enough to comment if you indeed don’t care?
The same reason you think you have a right to comment ;)
I don’t lie, though.
Those coming here to say ‘so what! I don’t care!’ are liars– readers who truly don’t care are not even reading these comments, let alone arguing prejudices and stereotypes.
If you don’t care… go away.
It’s not exactly your web page..so dry up.
But why come here if you don’t care.
I never claimed it was mine toots… it ain’t yours either.
Right, but as you are welcome to comment, thus! so am I ;)
And never did I say otherwise, Brenda.
Apparentlyyou do since you took not only the time to click to the article but read it AND commented on it.
I am sure all the guys in Lisbon Falls will be disappointed these two are off the market! lol.
They still have you to look forward to sweetie.
While I am sure that there are some “men” who would get excited looking at my hairy backside, the feeling is not mutual. There is something about the warmth of a woman that I have always found to be quite addictive. I doubt that I will be changing teams anytime soon! lol.
LOL. I don’t want to look though. Yuck.
Who says the “other” team wants you?
Tedlick Badkey, for some inane reason.
good for you, Im Happy For Both You Ladies!!
Sorry…you have been duped! Homosexual acts are sin!
Get over yourself Billy. Worry about yourself and less about what other people do or don’t do.
There’s nothing sinful about two people blessed enough to find in one another a loving, supportive, lifelong commitment.
But you know that, your dark heart hates happiness.
I do hope they will be happy. A sin? Only God really knows for only he can judge.
Meaningless… this is not about sin… not about mythology in any way.
I do, however, appreciate you coming here and sharing how angst-ridden you are.
I really do.
i visited your website. you seem to be *obsessed* with Obama…look…isn’t that him in your profile picture?
Kind of like my ex boyfriend. He said he hated me, but everywhere I turned, look…there he was…talking about me…fixated…kind of like you, Bill.
I think you love that black man, you’re just hiding behind your hatred as an excuse to obsess over this picture.
I understand what he said. You could be nuts. Then again I could be nuts. …..Hey that is kind of like grapes.
no kidding
LOL..now, that was a good one..wait! I have to write that down.
Not one word from you about homosexual sin and the reality that these homosexual people are not really married! Two people of the same gender can not be married …its a phony ceremony!
But good job in your attempt to shovel the conversation away from this disgusting display of humanity which is labeled as sin by God himself!
according to law, you are mistaken.
the only sin I see is those “christians” who mistake themselves for God; seeking to judge their brothers and sisters here on earth; not saving Judgement for Him.
I pray for you, that you will know compassion and peace. God has offered you this opportunity to grow beyond your anger and to embrace His children by supporting their equality. God grant you the wisdom and strength to accept His children.
Sure they’re married, or soon will be.
It doesn’t require your mythology or your sky wizard.
Atheists wed all the time with no religious trappings.
I’m pretty sure your obsession with all things gay has a much deeper meaning.
Ummmm civil law says they can and will be REALLY married…just because you don’t happen to agree with this doesn’t make it any less reality. I don’t agree with bigoted people…..yet here you still are billy boy…..now go read your bible.
Nope…Maine law says…get the facts straight.
Yes Maine CIVIL LAW brender try and keep up. Duh.
Duh yourself Rainbow Bright ;)
BILL,
A quick google search yielded some great Bible verses to think over:
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. John 6:37
For God shows no partiality. Romans 2:11
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you
pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Matthew 7:1-2
Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven. Luke 6:37
For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Matthew 6:14-15
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Galatians 5:14
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person’s religion is worthless. James 1:26
Not meant to offend, just some food for thought.
Here are a few you and all homosexuals should learn…
Leveviticus 18:22 22“Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
Genesis 2:21 “So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep. While the man slept, the LORD God took out one of the man’s ribs* and closed up the opening. 22Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib, and he brought her to the man. + 23“At last!” the man exclaimed. “This one is bone from my bone, and flesh from my flesh! She will be called ‘woman,’ because she was taken from ‘man.’” + 24This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.”
Bill, do you believe gay and lesbian Mainers should be put to death?!
Do you mean LEVITICUS? Leviticus which also says Ye shall not print any marks upon you. When nearly 1/4 of the American population is tattooed, that’s a big loss for your following.
The Leviticus that says “Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in meteyard, in weight, or in measure.” (19:35) “ did you stop reading at 18:22?
The Leviticus that lists dozens of incenstual relations that are abominations, but never mentions the abomination it would be for a father to see his daughter’s “nakedness”??? Does that make sense to you? It doesn’t to me.
Ye shall not therefore oppress one another; but thou shalt fear thy God:for I am the Lord your God. (25:17)
And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people. (20:18)
I guess I’m going to hell because I’ve had sex while menstruating.
A widow, or a divorced woman, or profane, or an harlot, these shall he not take: but he shall take a virgin of his own people to wife. (21:14) A divorced woman or a widow should never be remarried?
Does all of that also line up with your views, or do you just pick and choose the parts that do?
And regarding Genesis:
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
or
Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and clings to his wife, and they become one flesh.
are the most common transcription of line 24 that I’ve seen (and I checked quite a few versions).
But Genesis also doesn’t specifically say that for example, not getting married at all would be wrong.
Besides, the Bible has nothing to do with law making decisions because this is America, the wonderful melting pot! If you don’t like it, go back to England where Americans decided sucked due to its oppressively religious political system.
Leviticus….have you gone after the shellfish industry in Maine yet, Bill.
What’s the matter…cherry picking Leviticus are you?
Leviticus 11:10 reads, “But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you.”
You really dont know anything do you? Have you EVER read the Bible? Here…chew on this…..
Mark 7:14-23
14Then Jesus called to the crowd to come and hear. “All of you listen,” he said, “and try to understand. 15It’s not what goes into your body that defiles you; you are defiled by what comes from your heart.*” + 17Then Jesus went into a house to get away from the crowd, and his disciples asked him what he meant by the parable he had just used. + 18“Don’t you understand either?” he asked. “Can’t you see that the food you put into your body cannot defile you? 19Food doesn’t go into your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer.” (By saying this, he declared that every kind of food is acceptable in God’s eyes.) + 20And then he added, “It is what comes from inside that defiles you. 21For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, + 22adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. 23All these vile things come from within; they are what defile you.”
Food and homosexual sin are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! Homosexuals acts are sin…Food is not!
chew on this: we don’t live in a biblical state, we live in a Constitutional Republic.
You do realize we are fighting two wars against countries that use religious law, not Constitutional law, right?
I corrected your ignornance on Biblical teaching….What you do with your soul after being warned of sin is of no consequence to me! Good luck!
I corrected your ignornance on Biblical teaching….What you do with your soul after being warned of sin is of no consequence to me! Good luck!
I think you are so, so, so very far away from having God’s love in your heart. I have much compassion for you.
acting like God is a sin. save the judgement for the pearly gates, brother Bill.
Remember, the true sign of a non-Christian is that they are self righteous….not selfless and righteous.
You need to correct your path. I have much compassion for you, your attitude is very un-Christian.
“Not one word from you about homosexual sin and the reality that these homosexual people are not really married!”
Well Bill of course they aren’t married…Same Sex Marriage isn’t legal in Maine until 12/29/2012.
~~~~~
“Two people of the same gender can not be married …its a phony ceremony!”
Not sure what legal texts you are reading Bill but same gender marriage is allowed and recognized in several states and will be in Maine very shortly. Marriage is far more then a “ceremony” and the marriage license issued by the State of Maine allows a couple to choose between a religious ceremony and a civil ceremony. Both will be perfectly legal and equally valid.
~~~~~
“But good job in your attempt to shovel the conversation away from this disgusting display of humanity which is labeled as sin by God himself!”
Bill might I recommend School House Rocks for how a bill becomes law in the United States. You will learn that the Bible has nothing to do with the civil laws of the United States.
Actually, it appears to be a gross caricature, of small,black boy. Does this clarify any of his other opinions?
I asked one reader on here to define conservatism and all he could do was provide an A-list of Tea Party extremists (Palin and Ted Nugent).
The poor (conservative) could not even list one conservative idea…just a list of celebrities.
Opinions, clarified, are not Bill’s strong point.
You really are a creeper, aren’t you? How many profiles are you stalking this morning????
again, kettle meet pot
You guys make it public toots, it’s not “stalking”.
Good grief.
Well it is when you visit profiles and start posting personal info up..that is by all means CREEPY and CHILDISH to add
Blame those that did it… I didn’t.
Congratulations to you both!!!
homophobic? you’re all just heterophobic
Next thing you know homophobic will be a hate crime.
Why do you feel so threatened by the happiness of others?
I don’t really care if they are happy. I don’t care if a man and a woman get married are happy. I just asked a question and am watching the sparks fly.
No… You started bellyaching that “homophobic will be a hate crime”.
Why are you so negative on this? How are you harmed? Your comments are well beyond “asking a question”…
Blanc12 started out asking a simple question..every reply he got coming from the rainbow brigade has been nothing but insulting…so, if he has his feathers ruffled? Good! Shows he is standing up for HIS beliefs and excersizing HIS right of free speech…now back off.
“back off” Brenda? And if people don’t “back off” what then?
I was not responding to that question LadyZilla…
I was commenting on the silly comment “Next thing you know homophobic will be a hate crime.”… It had nothing to do with their question. I’d ansered that long ago.
As for “free speech”, you do realize that this is a private forum and they can ban whoever they want whenever they want… don’t you?
Something tells me that you’re going to disagree.
Well hell..it damned near is…look at this forum…if we don’t agree..who is attacking who?
You see you don’t REALLY want to understand anything…..too bad being asinine couldn’t be a crime- you’d be easily charged.
Just commenting on the state of our society. If you voice an opinion people such as yourself will try to shut you down.
You can’t ‘shut down’ stoopid…..so keep spewing your obvious lack of knowledge- your posts all speak volumes about your lack of knowledge or comprehension regarding this topic. Spew away.
Point made ^ nothing but insults. Check this out TLM…straight people are NOT ill-educated scum. We DO know what goes on..thanks to the media and all the other hoopla that says “embrace same sex marriage or get insulted”… you agree with it, fine. We don’t..sorry to bust your bubble. My family of veterans did not fight nor give their lives to ensure gays get what they cry for. In fact..have you educated YOURSELF enough to realize the doors this new law has opened? Pedophiles have begun using the same tactics to rightfully exercize thier sexual preferences, and shrinks are agreeing…will you embrace them as well?
Being a pedophile is illegal brender and affects other people(i.e. the victims) and it’s a crime. Being gay is not illegal or a crime and affects no one else. My family of veterans fought for EVERYONE in this country including the narrow minded, uneducated, bigots such as yourself. And brender shrinks are not agreeing so try again.
I think you better do some reading deary….then come back and try to correct me.
Nothing to correct. You’ve shown no change in law anywhere… but if you just use Google, you’ll see a steady rise in age of consent laws, not a lowering of them.
You’re fear mongering is cute… but pointless.
Not to add or anything..but being homosexual is punishable by death in other countries…wonder why that is?
Why don[‘t you move there toots?
Some of those same countries find being christian also punishable by death. Agree with them on that too?
Because they do not have the US Constitution to protect their rights? Because small minded busybodies still rule in those nations without checks and balances?
Hmmm…..I am wrong? http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=11517
CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU?
In July, 2010 Harvard health Publications said, “Pedophilia is a
sexual orientation and unlikely to change. Treatment aims to enable
someone to resist acting on his sexual urges.”
Linda Harvey, of Mission America, said the push for pedophiles to
have equal rights will become more and more common as LGBT groups
continue to assert themselves. “It’s all part of a plan to introduce sex
to children at younger and younger ages; to convince them that normal
friendship is actually a sexual attraction.”
Milton Diamond, a University of Hawaii professor and director of the
Pacific Center for Sex and Society, stated that child pornography could
be beneficial to society because, “Potential sex offenders use child
pornography as a substitute for sex against children.”
Linda Harvey?
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! Oh… wow… Quote Fred Phelps next time… it carries as much weight.
Um… no one at Harvard can change the fact that children cannot consent.
Your comparison is still invalid.
You, once again you know nothing that you speak of.
1.Pedophilia is classified as a mental illness under the DSM-IV-TR 302.2 and generally has a very low success rate in changing/responding to treatment to alter the illegal behavior. It is classified as a paraphilia NOT a sexual orientation.
Just like heterosexuality is a type of sexual orientation and is unlikely to change…..pedophiles are attracted to unfortunately children which is why it is illegal and dealt with as a crime- as it should be. Being gay or straight or bisexual is not illegal or a crime- they are all sexual orientations. You guys can’t have it both ways first you say ‘well sexual orientation is a behavior choice and can be changed’ and now you are citing an article that states sexual orientation is fixed/static and not able to be changed…..make up your mind.
2 Linda Harvey is nothing more than a christian nut who has no expertise on anything and her Mission America was listed as an ant-gay group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Try citing actual scientific studies with empirically based information rather than some agenda driven non-secular freak.
3. Your Hawaiian professor is simply saying that pornography may be used as a substitute for masturbation rather than having the pedophile actually acting on their sexual urges which would involve a victim. That said- child pornography is also against the law and should be. Try again kutlASS442.
“My family of veterans did not fight nor give their lives to ensure gays get what they cry for.”
Your right….they fought and died to protect our freedoms irrespective of race, gender, national origin, sexual orientation, religion, etc…
~~~~~
“In fact..have you educated YOURSELF enough to realize the doors this new law has opened?”
And which doors would that be Brenda? Please be specific with examples and supporting links.
~~~~~
“Pedophiles have begun using the same tactics to rightfully exercize
thier sexual preferences, and shrinks are agreeing…will you embrace them as well?”
Really Brenda? Where? Please be specific with examples and supporting links.
Look above..that is 1 link..I am sure you can do some research on your own..then tell me what I say is wrong…
Are you channeling for “guest” kutlass?
When a poster makes a claim it is up to them to back that claim up.
Since you seem to be answering for “guest” maybe you will produce the proof. Remember I’m not the one making the claim, that was “guest” or was that you?
When you start comparing law-abiding, consenting adults to those that would harm children, you prove it.
You are incredibly stupid.
The education you speak of obviously wasn’t yours.
Then you are walking with blinders on…look it up…the rally has begun.
Your ignorance of law is palpable… I pity you.
And yet your comment on a private comment board still remains after 3 hours. Who is trying to “shut you down” blanc and why are they trying to do it?
Hell..who would want to understand..why you people are sooooo into insulting others because they don’t get why this is so popular now? Look at the comments coming from the do-gooders? May as well be Hitlers’ lil helpers.
Hyperbole much brender ? Who NEEDS you to understand ? No one here.
Who NEEDS you to be a creeper and childish enough to post other peoples personal info here? No one here.
Hell, it already is..didn’t you see the events leading to the polls? People were being bullied out of voting NO or posting signs..churches even told their followers to not show signs of opposition…
To be straight IS a crime now a days, if you don’t accept this stuff, you are a hateful bigot, ill-educated dirt, etc. I’m not confused, hateful, mean or joining the klan..but I WILL defend what I feel is right, regardless of what mud is slung in my direction. They don’t like the ideal that they can’t snow everyone…
What may be ‘right’ for you may not be ‘right’ for someone else – no one who is gay is attempting to make you DO anything- don’t believe in same sex marriage don’t marry someone who is gay. That should be pretty simple for you brender.
I am also not shoving what I feel is “right” down anyones throat. People are free to debate me, as I am free to do the same. It is NOT a 1 sided thing…but, come on, I don’t see me posting a bunch of YOUR personal info here, do you? I will be seeing you soon..I hope you will be in a better mood then.
LOL. No you won’t be seeing me soon. You have no idea who or where I live….and even if you did it’s not like I would spend any time with the likes of you.
So now you just revert to outright lies…
Nice… it shows how great an ally you are.
Lies? like??
“bullied out of voting no”
“to be straight is a crime now a days”
Lies.
Like that makes any sense at all.
Merriam Webster defines homophobia as ‘irrational’. From your comment, I can see why.
Always a shot in the head when you get an opposing view, isn’t it? Irrational my tail. Now heterosexuals are irrational I guess? Too bad.
Not all heterosexuals… just the ones like you.
Ohhh..you mean those of us with opposing views are irrational? Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Not all with opposing views…
Just the ones like you.
why do you think only gay people support equality?
and you must be 12…..try again.
Good for them. I wish them a happy future!
People like these two need to be called out for what they are, sick, depraved individuals who make a mockery of the sanctity of marriage. Just because the law says they can marry does not mean that the rest of us need to respect it.
Mockery? Sanctity?
With divorce statistics what they are, you think THIS is the problem?
Wow… hysterical.
And nobody cares if you respect it hon… like your brothers in the KKK, your freedom to hold your views will be protected.
Bahahahahahaha MOCKERY and SANCTITY Bahahahahahha with a 50% divorce rate and multiple remarriages THAT is what has made a mockery out of marriage and ruined it’s sanctity…but do try again. And their marriage affects you how exactly ?? Who needs YOU to respect anything…..as if your opinion matters to these two people whom you don’t even know.
I believe the divorce rate will be close to the same for same sex marriage. The only winners are the lawyers. If they want to get married and get screwed with taxes well then just go for it.
How are you a loser?
Tax rates are more for married people.
Then don’t get married.
Too late and it is cheaper to keep her.
and misogynistic too! I bet you’re a REAL catch…
The winners are all of us. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. Gay people should be treated equally. Period.
You sound like a super hero.
you sound like an old white guy who has never in his life been denied any of his civil rights…….try again.
Lol.You got to admit he or she sounded like a super hero.
No need to be mean. What is wrong with being a white guy. I was born this way and will not apologize.
The U.S. Government doesn’t have gay marriage as civil right yet or am I wrong.
You are not wrong…the federal law still does not see this act as a valid marriage, when they wonder out of Maine..it’s back to the same old thing. They wanted government recognization, benefits, etc…all they really get is a Maine state souvenier..and all we get is a new swarm of tourists…I guess it’s good for state revenue :/
only a matter of time
DOMA (look it up) is going away…..June 2013….when SCOTUS (look it up) rules against it.
Not for much longer!!!
As went DADT, so goes DOMA.
I hope you’re here for me to watch when it does fall.
Civil rights are for ALL Americans not just for straight Americans….the 14th Amendment covers ALL Americans…not just the one’s you want to pick and choose….
If they wanted equality, they wouldn’t broadcast their every move…not so equal on heterosexuals part :/ Get married, live happily ever after..or not….thier business, not ours…some of us? DO NOT CARE!
You’re not being honest. There have never been wedding announcements in the paper? Your own facebook profile shows you kissing a man — don’t be a hypocrite here. You flaunt yourself just as much.
Then quit commenting on something you declare that you do not care about…..
How about you…bite me! I don’t care to see every move they make on the news feed NO…sorry about your luck there chicky
Bite you really what are you 11 ? And I find it funny you think I’m female LOL.
It’s news. It sells papers.
I guess..but if straight couples had front page..someone would cry “discrimination” ..am I wrong?
Really? Wasn’t the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge front page news? Did anyone scream “discrimination”?
Yes, you’re wrong here. When straight people make the front page, we call that a weekday… Unless it’s the weekend edition of course.
Liar.
If you didn’t care, you’d not be here screeching in this forum.
I care about this country..which is going to hell. PERIOD.
So sad to see such pessimism on a constant basis.
PS: Reading this article had what, exactly, to do with this country “going to hell”?
Throughout our nation’s history there have been groups of people who have seen the promise of our Constitution, and spoken out that they too deserve equal protection under our laws.
And every time, there are surely people like you who are predicting doom and gloom should we offer equal rights to one more group.
Every time you fail, and every time you’re proven wrong. Our country is getting better all the time!
Her opinion matters as much as you think yours does….
Don’t cry about equality when you can’t even accept a debating view.
If you can look at that happy couple and see the face of ‘sick and depraved’ you really are blind to love.
They seem like nice people. I just don’t understand it.
I don’t see them as sick..I just see them as hey “look at me..I’m gay”…same old thing. It gets old.
then don’t look….
what choice do we have? It is OUR newspaper too :/
I thought you said you were in Dayton Ohio?
FROM…where folks are ALOT more diverse than here…and guess what? They are even kewl to know not everyone accepts them..unlike this place…cry, cry cry
I was responding to Brenda, not anyone else. Or did you forget which alias you were using, Brenda?
Are you from Maine? Based on your responses above why do you care what happens in Maine?
I am NOT from Maine..but I live here. I care what happens in MY country…so throw sabers all you want..where there is 1 view, expect opposition.
So are you “kutlass”, “Brenda” or “guest”?
For someone not from Maine you sure seem to have alot to say about what happens in Maine. Are you spending the same amount of time on the newspapers of Washington or Maryland?
You have the choice to not read it sugar…
And then you won’t be so bothered by it.
Gee brender where did your beautiful profile pic go ??
you read an article about something that is offensive, then comment about it. Maybe you’re not offended, but fascinated by it….Meet me at the middle stall at Macy’s at 1. My guess is that you will know what to do…
sounds like an invite of a threat to me..watch out..Big Brother is watching you ;)
And remember Brenda – Guest – Kutlass they are watching you too.
Beautiful LOL !!!
HA! Good! Another person who stands their ground….
You don’t have to respect it nole…you just have to tolerate it.
yuck! It’s just wrong, wrong WRONG!
Poor little guy…
Tell us… if it is so “yucky”, why are you here? Do you like feeling uncomfortable?
And nobody cares if you call it wrong sweetcheeks…
Awwwwww get over it, get over it, GET OVER IT!!
you find it offensive yet you took the time to read the article and respond??? Can you say closeted?
The persons mind was open enough to read the article. That doesn’t mean they have to change their views after they read it.
You garnered that comment from yesihaveanopinion’s post?
They read the article, it did not change their opinion but is that worse than just never reading anything on the subject and maintaining the opinion? You people don’t give people credit for any steps they take unless they wrap you in their arms and dance in your gay parade with you.
ea based on yesihaveanopinion “yuck! It’s just wrong, wrong WRONG!” comment I doubt he bothered to read the article. He saw the headline and just had to make a comment.
“You people don’t give people credit for any steps they take unless they wrap you in their arms and dance in your gay parade with you.”
No I will and have given credit to people that can express their opinions without resorting to juvenile comments.
By the way, what is a “gay parade”? Is that like a “straight parade” or the “Shrine Parade”? And just to be clear I am a married (29 years) heterosexual male that isn’t threatened by two people of the same gender making a life long commitment.
I’m not threatened by it anymore than I am by any other perverted act. You have really never seen a gay parade?
I am sure you would find something anywhere you could. Strange how you don’t seem bothered by the many perversions of heterosexuals!
I would be if any of them were trying to form themselves into a protected class. Maybe the girl having sex with her cucumber wants it to be eligible for disability benefits because it can’t walk. I will be against that as well.
You sound like a very nasty person. The good and intelligent gay people I have known would put you to shame.
“Perverted acts”? By chance do you mean sodomy? Because if you do I hope you know that many, many heterosexual couples both within the bond of marriage and outside of marriage engage in sodomy on a regular basis.
No I haven’t seen a “gay parade” but I have been to New Orleans during Mardi Gras and even there I saw more heterosexual people acting out and showing body parts that aren’t legal in 48-49 states on a daily basis. Try as I might I don’t remember seeing any homosexual activity during my entire stay.
By chance I mean man/man, woman/woman, woiman,little boy, man/little girl, man/dog, woman/dog, etc……… Man’s perversion is without limit and only recently do we choose to validate it. What’s next?
As for behavior in public by heteros and homos it should not include grinding in parades. Is that really what we legalized? Is that what you want Maine to be?
“By chance I mean”:
1) “man/man” – Legal Two Consenting Adults (Lawrence v. Kansas)
2) “woman/woman” – Legal Two Consenting Adults
3) “woiman,little boy” – Illegal and No State Has Made Any Move to Legalize….Anywhere.
4) “man/little girl” – Illegal and No State Has Made Any Move to Legalize….Anywhere.
5) “man/dog” – Illegal and No State Has Made Any Move to Legalize….Anywhere.
6) “woman/dog” – Illegal and No State Has Made Any Move to Legalize….Anywhere.
~~~~~
“Man’s perversion is without limit and only recently do we choose to validate it. What’s next?”
And what has happened in Massachusetts as a result of SSM? What about Canada?
~~~~~
“As for behavior in public by heteros and homos it should not include grinding in parades. Is that really what we legalized? Is that what you want Maine to be?”
“Grinding in parades? You must attend some very strange parades. Maine legalized civil marriage between two consenting adults regardless of gender. My marriage and manhood is not threatened in the least. Your fears are groundless.
been to a Dallas Cowboys football game, lately? if you didn’t notice “the grinding” during halftime…well, you must be blind.
That’s an event people paid to go see. Not quite the same as a mandated, protected march going down our streets now is it. Yeah I know we haven’t had one yet, but since you all are trying to change us into a New York or San Fran I’m guessing it won’t be long.
No, we are just trying to turn us in to a just, civil society for all Mainers.
ps. the NFL uses the public airwaves to support its advertising revenue.
Yes they do, and what is seen on TV is ultra edited. If you even see the cheerleaders cheering for a minute during the whole game I would be surprised and if you see them grinding they would get complaints as well as FCC fines. Nothing like that exists for protections when it comes to these protected parades.
okay, i agree with you…i’m not for public grinding, etc.
I find most married people don’t behave that way. Another good reason to support marriage equality.
Marine, we already have laws against public lewdness, I’m pretty sure both gays and straights can and should be arrested if they break those laws. I’ve never been to a ‘gay parade’, though I did walk with the UU Church group to commemorate Charlie Howard’s death in Bangor 20 years before. About 25 Mainers, led by an 85 year old woman singing bible hymns.
A point of local history, Charlie was murdered by 4 young men in Bangor, they never served a day in jail for his death.
I dunno Marine, if walking down the street like Charlie. was enough to get me murdered, I might have my own parade just for staying alive.
The bottom line, for me, is that we can not let the Constitution apply *only when its for the majority*. No matter how much you or I may disagree with ‘the homosexual lifestyle’, as Americans, with a Constitution, we protect those people, even when we disagree.
I knew the about Charlie’s death. I was stationed out of state then but it was big news everywhere and very embarrassing for the State. I didn’t know that no one was ever punished though. That seems like something went wrong with the legal system that has nothing to do with making more protections for more groups of people.
thank you for compassionate response.
when anti-gay rights people say that they are getting things ‘shoved down their throats’ or that a boycott is the same as violence, I remember Charlie, and think to myself ‘oh really?”.
People who say that have no idea what violence is really like. If asked I will tell the truth about my feelings on the subject and if I can I will try to spare hurt that my words may cause.
The problem is I really do find the subject really hard to discuss without showing my disgust so usually the conversation does not end will.
I’m sorry but I will not be two faced about my opinions.
That being said I would have died to protect Charlie from those bullies if I had been there. Real men don’t go around hurting people for kicks. I was taught that our duty was to protect the weak, no matter what, long before I joined the military. The acts at that bridge made me ashamed of the place I came from and the words used to describe the bridge afterwords only made that worse.
a big salute to you, Marine.
as usual, America’s finest leave me humbled.
I was raised by a woman who thought it was important that her child no be one of the bad guys. Don’t give the Marines all that credit. Thanks for the salute though.
Why are you watching these parades?
Because once we started staying out of their bedrooms gay people brought their bedrooms out onto our streets.
And therefore you watch these parades? You’ve been watching them all these 40 years?
Don’t have to watch them all. I saw one on the news in San Fran and another covered in NY back when I was in the Corps. All the convincing I needed that this sort of thing shouldn’t spread. Of course people like you stuck in Maine had no idea what you were getting yourself into when you did your little feel good vote.
You know what they say when you assume. Why do you think I’ve never been out of Maine? You think people who’ve been out in the big city would see the awful terrible of the gay parade and vote against marriage equality?
As for what we’re getting into, I think we’re getting into the same ol’ same ol’ that is everyday life that is and always was here in Maine.
You know you’re taking the wrong path when it is even too extreme for California.
Marriage doesn’t automatically mean grinding in public. Why, I bet most of the couples that grind at Barnaby’s aren’t even married!
Perhaps some might say “yuck” about you….
Lisbon couple, or Lesbian couple?
You’re hilarious perhaps you can’t differentiate between the two…..
…..
Tongue in cheek………………….
They all look alike, LOL!!!
Please stop with the daily news of people getting married. STOP
Please stop with your whining. STOP.
Don’t like it?
Then why are you here?
You people make no sense.
BECAUSE IT IS THEIR RIGHT TO BE HERE..NOT JUST YOURS. GET OVER IT
CAPS LOCK! IT JUST GOT REAL.
Nah..just trying to make it crystal clear that we can all be here..they must have missed it in small print.
Odd, you are claiming responsibility for a post by some other name… How many names on here are just you?
It makes little sense for people such as yourself to continue to subject yourself to news articles that you object too. It’s not good for your mental health.
Why do people who dislike guns comment on gun articles?
Because they have that right..but somehow, we don’t have the right to oppose this article :/
push even you should be able to see that “guest”, “Brenda” or “kutlass” (take your pick they are all one and the same) is screaming about an issue that does not directly impact them (they don’t live in Maine by their own admission).
They are what is know as an agitator.
My mental health is in tact..it’s the majority here that needs help..especially with anger :/ If it’s in the news, I will read it, I will form an opinion..and will not care who likes it…
My reply was directed at “guest” who was SHOUTING which is not healthy nor productive
Scream toots… scream… it makes you look so silly.
I never told them they had no right to be here, now did I, oh screamer.
I just point out that it makes NO sense whatsoever to come here and read this if you don’t like it or it makes you uncomfortable.
You’re a hoot… keep posting please!
You got everything you asked for in the last election and you still have anger issues. Bangor is the hub of mental health and their should be some good doctors that can help
I have anger issues?
ROFLOL!!! Oh… that’s quite funny!
You changed your tag.
Huh?
No hon… that’s been my user name since before BDN started using Disqus.
Nothing’s changed.
You mean ALL people getting married ? I can’t wait to see all the engagements and wedding announcements in the BDN.
Well, that is where it should be. Not on the main page. It’s an engagement..woo hoo! Put it where it belongs.
But that’s where they wanted to put it!
Are you going to violate THEIR “free speech” rights?
Raving, lunatic hypocrite.
Yes, you certainly ARE!
Exactly how am I violating anyone’s free speech rights?
I’ve not prevented anyone from posting here.
$$$$$$$$$
Your anti-capitalist too?
Here’s another one for your perpetual outrage: http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2012/12/27/news/hancock/weru-dj-to-marry-on-air-saturday-night/
Or are you going to be a hypocrite, and only complain when gays getting married is on the front page?
And let’s not forget Senator Collins marriage this year. The BDN even made a story out of her bridal registry!
I live in Lisbon Falls as well, and wasn’t aware of her orientation. I assume many in town weren’t either. Though I certainly don’t care and it should not be considered a factor in town council, I do hope this doesn’t bring Lisa any negative backlash. Like most small towns, we had our share of anti-question 1 zealots and many are still (obviously) chomping at the bit to punish the victors of our Democratic vote, in any way possible.
I would like to think for every bitter zealot who would wish harm to them,there will be countless more wishing them well.If their civil rights are violated,I hope they can seek redress immediately.In a perfect world,nothing will happen.
wah…deal with it. Come stalking my page and post BS they think they know about me? LMAO..yup..I’ll call ya a creepy lil skittle boy..:)
LOL, that hateful name calling…I hope you don’t consider your self a christian…and what makes you thin I’m a boy?
brender thinks everyone is a boy LOL.
maybe that’s because she desperately wants/needs one
Congratulations!
There appears to be a discrepancy in this article. Lisa Ward says early in the article that “…there’s almost an urgency to getting married on Monday. In case it gets taken away again.” Then further on down, the article states that “They know the right to marry can’t be taken away this time…” Well, which is it? I believe the latter statement is the true one. Those that wish to repeal this are experiencing a pipe dream. In theory, yes, opponents can circulate petitions and put this on the ballot again. In practice, the odds are slim. SSM opponents have no idea (they will soon) how this election result cemented in place Marriage Equality in this state. SSM now has the heft, gravitas and legitimacy of voter approval. There will have to be major upheaval and chaos (I’m thinking lawsuits against dozens of churches or tons of businesses and people losing money over this) for people to halt Marriage Equality. Congratulations to this couple and to all who have waited for this day.
The anti forces are very well funded and will stop at nothing to get what they want.They have plenty of sheep who will do whatever they’re told as well.Look at the Prop 8 mess which is still a ways away from being decided once and for all.
After this election, the anti forces are seeing their funding dry up. They’re not invincible any more. As far as plenty of sheep, I have more confidence in Mainers than that. The Prop 8 issue involves constitutional issues that aren’t present in our new law. Maine’s new Marriage Equality law was proposed, signatures gathered, placed on the ballot, and passed clean with the voters. No sticky issues as far as violation of the 14th Amendment are in play here. People forget that back in 2008 (I think), there WAS an attempt to scuttle the by then 3 year old civil rights law passed by the voters in 2005. Michael Heath (sigh) tried to gather signatures for repeal, as was his right. It started out well, but then fizzled. People recognized that the law was in place via the electorate and wasn’t harming anybody. The issue was seen as settled and it was time to move on. Same thing here. You’re falling into the trap set up by the antis. They want the gay community to sleep with one eye open, ever fearful that SSM can be taken away at any time.
The $$ thing might be true(I hope you’re right)but I don’t think you can ever stop counting on them to cause trouble.Look at R v.W 40 years on.I trust Mainers and others will do the right thing and go forward.The dead enders will die off eventually.
Congratulations, Mel and Lisa, BUT!!!! An outdoor ceremony in Maine on Dec. 31? Yeesh! I hope the weather will be at least decent for you both!
will we get a special edition of the bangor daily on saturday when the gays go get married? surely to be at least another article (or two) tomorrow
I would expect there will be news coverage of such an historic occasion, sure.
I also predict no shortage of “so what!” and “big deal!” sour grapes from people who were so opposed to our equal access to civil marriage (odd considering how adamant they insist they don’t care)
I hope so.
How interesting . If one responds to a post of Brenda Marie, they get a response now from kutlass….hmmm…..
yes very interesting isn’t it LOL
Yes…Brenda = Guest = kutlass
And I love the references to “throwing” sabers. I was always under the impression that sabers were best used while held in the hand rather than throwing them at somebody.
Troll. I saw that same person/persons posting against gay marriage on one of the blogs on the BDN….I think the Matthew Gagnon one. Same photo,etc.
What is the thing with Guest? I thought it was “generic”….that the BDN people inserted that when they removed a comment. Yet, I have seen certain posters post under “Guest.” I don’t get it.
One positive change is the BDN removes very few comments now.
I would agree with that for the most part. Leave them up and let people see them for what they are.
However, about 2 years ago some of us stopped posting because of all the online stalking and ganging up,etc. Glad that part is over. It is much better, I agree.
I think you can delete your name from comments via the discus control panel, most of the ‘Guest’ posts are from a single person who came back as this kutlass character.
History repeats itself.
When has this happened before?
Holy Cannoli ! Over 500 comments already !!
I wondered why the BDN would have this article – Lisbon is normally not in their area.
And I was just thinking the other day how few commenters there are, now that the election is over. Well it didn’t take long for the BDN to see it ! LOL –
JOY JOY JOY!I wish them every happiness and the same for all the couples to follow them!
have fun..it won’t last….next story please
Ahh, someone else got more sour grapes from Santa this week, I see!
yeah like you and your first marriage LOL