A sense of relief and respect is due as the last group of American combat troops has withdrawn from Iraq. Partly because their silent and unannounced crossing safely into Kuwait in predawn darkness successfully avoided even a skirmish. More so because the long war at last has ended. The American troops, aided by those of other NATO nations, did their duty and are properly honored for it.
But the almost nine-year war was started with the dubious and unsupported assertion that the Iraqi dictator, Saddam Hussein, had begun again to build nuclear weapons and was close to completing a few. Vice President Dick Cheney pushed that belief, with the help of a half dozen other “neoconservatives” who had long advocated military action to take out Saddam Hussein.
Mr. Cheney had persuaded President George W. Bush to nominate Donald Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense. Mr. Cheney also worked to bring the other war hawks into the new administration. Secretary of State Colin Powell, the popular four-star general who had headed the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the Gulf War, presented the case for war to the United Nations. The group persuaded the president to order the invasion, against his earlier denunciation of “nation building.” Reporting by the New York Times, since disavowed, backed the case for war. Much of the public, still traumatized by the 2001 terrorist attacks, accepted the case. The “evidence” for Saddam’s nuclear preparations was afterward found to be nonexistent.
The president, in effect, was finishing a job left undone by his father, President George H.W. Bush in the Gulf War.
The enormous costs of the war will burden America for decades: More than 4,500 American troop deaths, more than 32,000 wounded with 20 percent suffering serious brain or spinal injuries, 30 percent of the troops developing serious mental health problems within months of returning home. The country must not shirk its duty to all the wounded warriors. It also must develop plans to usher them back into employment.
And the financial cost — over $1 trillion, by most accounts — helped swell the deficit that has cast a pall over new government initiatives; this is especially troubling as the economy slowly recovers, and further government spending is necessary.
President Obama, who as an Illinois state senator had opposed war against Iraq as a “dumb war,” wrote in 2007 that the Iraq invasion was a war “that never should have been authorized and never should have been waged.” He called for withdrawal of U.S. combat forces by March 31, 2008. Military operations continued but the U.S. withdrawal was scheduled for completion by Dec. 31, 2011 in a November 2008 agreement between the United States and Iraq.
The controversial “surge” approach, which committed more troops and resources, and which was initially opposed by Mr. Obama, helped turn the tide in Iraq. So did the so-called Sunni Awakening, a change of heart by that sect.
But violence remains, as seen in recent days. Iraqis must walk the long, and sometimes bloody trail, toward an inclusive democracy and finally understand that shared prosperity for all is security for all.
So the long war is over, and its lesson is clear: Although wars of defense can be essential, making “contingency” or “preventive” war against a hostile or offensive nation is most likely to lead to a long, deadly, expensive and ultimately inconclusive conflict. That is what has happened with the U.S. effort in Iraq. It has happened before, and we should know better to not let it happen again.
Some Americans want such a war with Iran or North Korea. They are wrong and should be disregarded.
Thats my point. We are losing our right to free speech etc. Soon it will get worse here in the US but it seems most people are blind to what is going on in our government and that is exactly what government wants….for us all to be dumb and blind to their actions. All I can say is….it’s time for the American people to be ready to defend our constitutional rights, by force if necessary !
Yes, it is stunning that at this juncture after all that is now known about the extreme folly and lies.. to say the least.. of this horrendous escapade ANYONE could excuse the Bush administration and ALL who continue to support it.
Bush and his cabinet belong in jail! With all due respect to the troops, leaving under the cover of darkness is not a sign of success. I think the troops are great but I curse Bush and his crew for starting two unnecessary wars. Clinton would have bombed the crap out them and then called it a day. But not Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld and Rice nor even Rove who advised the president. They wanted guts and glory and so Americans paid with their lives and treasure. I hope they rot in hell for their excess!
Belong in jail? Are you serious?
Yes … In The Hague, Netherlands(World Court)…For their crimes against humanity.
So if we get attacked again, I mean when we get attacked again, are we supposed to just sit their and take it?
LOL…When did Iraq attack us?
Iraq has never attacked us. In 1992 they attacked an ally of ours, but this last conflict they didn’t even do that.
All they did was comply with weapons inspectors who found no weapons of mass destruction. We invaded them without any justifiable reason.
Along with Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5ZSZ9iKO4U
So What? It was wrong.
My comments were aimed at the selective memory of the editor.
None of those you mentioned advocated or promoted the idea of going to war to remove Sadaam. They were not aligned with Cheney in trying to persuade Bush to choose this course, either. They did, however, vote to give Bush the authority to take such action if he deemed it necessary. There is a big difference. The author was not selective in his memory.
Obama says the war is over. You don’t have to cover for them anymore.
Personally I don’t think it is… we will see how the impending civil war works out.
Who’s covering? I didn’t agree with their decisions even when they made them back then. Kerry’s 2004 campaign manager even admitted later on that Kerry made his decision based on polls that showed he could never be elected President if he voted against the resolution. It’s no accident that this vote took place two months before the 2002 mid term elections.
The impending civil war in Iraq and most countries in the middle east ‘IS’ their preferred form of government. It is the only system that they seem to understand. There is absolutely no way the USA can change thousands of years of blood spilling tradition in that part of the world.
Better to engage the enemy in Baghdad than in Boston…….or Bangor for that matter.
Not even close to monday morning Quarterbacking.
More like thrusday.
I see you are a rock solid example of the 3rd grade level of understanding of U.S. History that “your” government and its corporate masters cultivate. Nothing more than the same “I’d rather fight the Viet Cong in Hanoi than in Ohio” foolishness that brain dead/brain washed fools spouted 40 some years ago.
When you figure out who the “enemy” really is…and realize that they’ve been in this country for the last 250 years (and only getting stronger, partially as a result of 99% of Americans having no clue what this country is really about), THEN let me know.
Obama is really 250 years old?
And does that 99% remark put you into the dreaded 1%?
This comment represents the height of cowardice and moral bankruptcy…
Tired of poaching over donuts?
Tired of being a tool of HSUS?
Sorry.
I need to find another word.
“Tool” denotes something useful.
Incidentally, after a lot of inept horsing around we did manage to win, militarily, in South East Asia. Then we walked away from the win and a million people died in Cambodia while we admired our own, improved, morality. It’ll be interesting to see if, having followed the SEA trajectory so far, our effort in Iraq now produces a similarly disastrous end.
Sometimes, even when it was a mistake to start, you have to go on.
“How do you ask a man to be the last to die for a mistake?”
I’m not necessarily a big fan of John Kerry but……… how do you?
For those that haven’t seen Kerry’s testimony to the Vietnam War Hearing (Winter Soldier), it is well worth the time:
http://thefilmarchived.blogspot.com/2010/09/john-kerry-testimony-at-vietnam-war.html
I watched Kerry not through his medals of the Capital steps that day. He’s a deceiver.
Weren’t you also part of the crew on Kerry’s Swift boat?
The mistake in Southeast Asia was continuing on. 58,000 young Americans were killed in an unjust war and over 350,000 were disabled. Thousands were drafted right after high school for 10 years. So I would be willing to bet you that you never served and you do not know what it is like to be put in front of an enemy while some politician is gambling with your life. To all armchair quarterbacks and parents…please stop and think…if your child is now in school could they be killed in a war with Iran in service of their country? Think of the consequences not of what the flavor of the day is. I came home one day 2 months after graduating from high school and my parents handed me my draft notice. My life took a turn that I had never expected. I had friends killed in action and friends disabled for life all because of some political ploy after the tet offensive. Were were treated like trash at home and used like disposable Americans. Now many of those same people who treated us like trash are today’s politicians who now want to thank us for serving…I don’t think so! They are the trash that needs to be disposed of.
You’d lose.
Oh really ….it would be a draw… if you did serve! And if you did, when? Where? and what branch? Where is Thua Thien. What major city in Cambodia is on the Mekong? If you were there then you’d better know who did what where.
I’m sorry, I must have taken a different history class in high school. Saigon fell to the north in April of 1973, as us troops fled. After the passage of the Case-Church amendment our troops were pulled out and the North took over all of Vietnam. So if you wish to call it a “strategic retreat” that’s fine, but I think most people would agree that we lost.
The last troop fled Iraq under the cover of darkness, trying to avoid ambushes and IED’s. The country is in shambles, the straw government will not last 6 months, and there were never any WMD’s to begin with. Again you can call it a “tactical withdrawl” if you wish, but we lost.
I guess we can console ourselves with the knowledge that we eliminated a brutal dictator by destroying a major portion of the country. That brings up another Vietnam era quote
“we destroyed the village in order to save it”
I hope that’s not really what they’re teaching. Saigon fell in April of 1975, almost two years after the US military stopped providing direct support to the Vietnamese government as a result of the Case-Church amendment. That lack of support was what let North Vietnam invade the South in violation of the Paris Peace Accords – which were signed because we had finally inflicted enough damage on North Vietnam that they couldn’t afford to go on.
What’s more, in December of 1974 Congress cut off all military resupply to South Vietnam, crippling its ability to fight the North’s invasion.
I don’t claim that we won in Vietnam, only that the loss was by political choice rather than military defeat. This is what I see being repeated in Iraq.
Sigh. Memory grows dim, and now that I think about it the Peace Accords themselves stopped our direct support of military activities inside South Vietnam. What Case-Church did was end our support of Cambodia and Laos and send an important signal to North Vietnam that we were no longer a factor.
Mis print on the year, my mistake. End result, We LOST
I never believed that going into Iraq was the right thing to do. The US ignored the UN weapons inspectors who stated there were no WMD to be found. No evidence was ever produced of WMD. We lost more lives in IRAQ, more blood and treasure on a cause that was illegitimate.
Now we are talking Iran. If anyone realizes that the dimwits in Washington had popped themselves in the foot and that if Saddam Hussein was still in power, Iran would not be building weapons because they had lost a war to Iraq and good old Saddam had everything under control. But like Forrest Gump’s mother says “stupid is as stupid does”. To many politicians are to quick to draw and to quick on the trigger without stopping to think of the long term ramifications of any actions. 30 years ago there were statesmen in Washington who were actually capable of rational thought. Now it’s, well if we keep a perpetual war going, it is good for the country, it demonstrates our prowess, exhibits imperial qualities and the lobbyists will pay for our perpetual campaigns. I believe Ron Paul has it right when he says we need to get our nose out of other countries business. We need to stop borrowing from China and giving our money away as foreign aid to other countries and take care of our own here at home.
The lesson to be learned from the war in Iraq, imo, is less about “preventive” war leading to an inconclusive end than that the media and citizens need to be very skeptical about claims made by politicians for the need for any war.
Decisions made by the victims of “False” information do not reflect the malicious intent of the perpetraitors of the lie.
In this case maybe I should just say “Traitors”!
I see. You are saying Clinton, Kerry, Feinstein, Reid, & Biden were innocent pawns who had no idea what was going on? Is that right?
Then tell me, what in heck are people so naive still doing in positions of power?
How could they have survived this long as have, risen to such positions of power, if they were just naive puppets?
I rather think that it is people like you that are naive.
People like me?
People of Independant thought?
I made a general statement, you made a specific one abscent of any one from the right.
If I insulted you I apologize perhaps I misunderstood your “independent” thought re: “Democrats as pawns”. Care to clarify?
They voted for war because they made the huge mistake of believing Bush & Cheney’s lies.
No they were afraid to disagree with the White House on anything that had the slightest hint of ‘National Security’.
The same “lies” the Democrats read in the very same intel reports that Bush and Cheney had? The “lies” excuse is a weak one even for the historically weak leftists still calling themselves “democrats”. At least come up with a better line of B.S. to excuse “voting for a war before you voted against it”. Maybe the democrats thought they needed to pass the authorization for war in order to find out whats in it?? Seems Pelosi can only read bills AFTER they pass the house right?
The bottom line is the democrats voted to send us to war, then stabbed us in the back while we were fighting it. Your “protests” helped get more of our troops killed by giving our enemies the impression we were weak. With people like Harry “the war is lost” Reid, YOU killed our troops just as much as any jihadist ever did, so save the disingenious “Bush lied” crap for someone dumb enough to buy into it. As far as Im concerned you support our enemies over our troops, so get yourself a keffiyeh and an AK and have the honesty to act on your beliefs instead of hiding behind the guise of a “peaceful protester” or the guise of being an American. You are neither.
Hilarious! You seem to be channeling the “Hurrah for the Vietnam war!” antics on the Right a few decades ago. Anyone against a wrong-headed war is somehow aiding the enemy? Anyone who disagrees with a war being fought under false pretenses is somehow un-American?
“The Bush administration’s foreign policy plan was not based on September 11, or terrorism; those events only brought to the forefront a radical plan for U.S. control of the post-Cold War world that had been taking shape since the closing days of the first Bush presidency… set out to patch together their case for invading Iraq and ignored everything that contradicted it. In the end, this required that Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, et al. set aside the findings of analysts from the CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency (the Pentagon’s own spy bureau) and stake their claim largely on the basis of isolated, anecdotal testimony from handpicked Iraqi defectors… ”
[http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0730-06.htm]
With regard to supporting attacks on American GI’s, the answers to your first two questions is yes.
Your attitude is representative of the one that the Industrial War Complex values to the tune of trillions.
Here’s a SMALL example of the criminal BS that came from the Bush/Rumsfield “intelligence” agency. CIA records showed a supposed meeting between Mohammed Atta and a person of interest from Iraq. The meeting supposedly took place in Eastern Europe. The info also showed that the meeting never took place; the CIA had already checked out the RUMOR and negated it. Cheney seized the moment and read half of a by gone truth, bleating hysteria all over every major network in the “conservative mainstream” media all the while knowing it was BS. The man was and is the Master of War. Saddam and Bin Laden were arch enemies.
Well said. Looking at history we find most American involvement in war was a democrat idea. JFK and Vietnam for example. I spent four times the number of days J Kerry was there. On a side note; we attacked Germany when they did not attack us. If I recall it was Japan. Who was president for that one?
No they copped out to the misdirected patriotism swirling in the spreading political current that flooded all reason.
yes, it has been well documented that Cheney clearly ‘massaged ‘ intelligence to support his wish to start the war… he lied, many believed him…. there really is no question on this.
I wish I had a quarter for each time Clinton (former pres) used the terms “Saddam” and “weapons of mass destruction” in the same sentence during his administration. I could retire to Tahiti comfortably.
We went to Afghan because that is where the roque enemy ( SAUDIS) fled after declaring war upon us.
We went there only by open invitation by the Afghan government.
Irag, was different, it was at odds with the Saudis, friends of the Bush family oil dynasty and the focus of the 911 event WAS the US bases in Saudi Arabia from the Gulf War.
Lets not forget that was the demand of the Saudi Terrorist, The removal of the US in the middle east.
Lets not forget, The US did remve its base in Saudi Arabia.
ussually you dont declare war upon a nation by Proxy! However,
With a few little well placed lies it became quite convenent to put to use the old saying,
the enemy of mine enemy is my friend
P.S.
Who won the US war on Terror in Irag?
Saudi Arabia
Another nation destroyed…..another American generation compromised….
For the first, destruction of infrastructure and everything of value…..
For the second, prospective loss of all liberties, ethics, and moral compass….
Citing a vote by either the US Senate or House is but a frail foundation to support any premise…
Crime, corruption, and compromise is endemic amongst the elected members of Congress….
They have sold their souls to the devil many times over…..
At the time when these spineless politicians rolled over to the Bush White House, the political mood of this country would have labled them as ‘Anti-American’. The reallity is that most of our politicians have the spines of jelly fish.
One Republican voted against this debacle.
Ron Paul
He is our best hope to rebuild this nation
Ron Paul has recieved more support from active duty military than any other candidate, including Pres Obama. I guess when you are the tip of the spear you want the spear wielder to utilize you judiciously.
Ron Paul 2012
Ron Paul is a racist, and is as incompetent as the rest of the repug’s field of candidates:
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2011/12/ron-paul-offers-conor-friedersdorf-a-224-value-for-just-99-and-friedersdorf-buys-it.html
https://twitter.com/#!/RP_Newsletter
There is no excuse for being associated with this garbage.
If you think Ron Paul is a racist then you don’t have a clue. Even the minorities are campaigning for him. They know the difference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1uc7x4a8SM&feature=colike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6sYZxZi4qQ&feature=colike
It was more than a blunder. It was a crime. I’d like to see Dick Cheney and W locked up for it.
No it wasn’t!
“Are these Neocons??”
Progressives = Neocons in their desire to continue the welfare/warfare state, as it is in their economic best interest to do so. ALL the politicians you mention stood to gain financially from the war, hence their support. The only way to break the cycle of perpetual war and an ever expanding state is to elect the person who has said time and time again that he will end the wars and our failed inteventionist policies overseas.
“One way
or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of
mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom
line.”
–President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use
force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by
Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”
–President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
“Iraq is a long way from [here], but what
happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a
rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our
allies is the greatest security threat we face.”
–Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
“He will use those weapons of mass
destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.”
–Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security
Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
“[W]e urge you, after consulting with
Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary
actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi
sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its
weapons of mass destruction programs.”
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
— Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle,
John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998
“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the
development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to
countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection
process.”
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
“Hussein has … chosen to spend his money on
building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.”
— Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of
State, Nov. 10, 1999
“There is no doubt that … Saddam Hussein
has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological,
chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War
status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is
doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range
missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.”
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
— Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5,
2001
“We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein
is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has
ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass
destruction and th! e means of delivering them.”
— Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
“We know that he has stored secret supplies
of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”
— Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass
destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will
continue for as long as Saddam is in power.”
— Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
“We have known for many years that Saddam
Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”
— Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
“The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in
October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles
of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash
course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities.
Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons…”
— Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
“I will be voting to give the President of
the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm
Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass
destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”
— Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
“There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam
Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have
nuclear weapons within the next five years … We also should remember we have
always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of
mass destruction.”
— Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
“He has systematically violated, over the
course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded
that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear
capacity. This he has refused to do”
— Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
“In the four years since the inspectors left,
intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his
chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his
nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists,
including al Qaeda members … It is clear, however, that if left unchecked,
Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and
chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”
— Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
“We are in possession of what I think to be
compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years,
a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass
destruction.”
— Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
“Without question, we need to disarm Saddam
Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime …
He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone
to miscalculation … And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction …
So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is
real…”
— Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
Irregardless of the D or the R these have all proven to be LIES. So what is your point? by tying the R lies to the D lies are you trying to say that it’s OK?? It was all a great big effing LIE, and lots of good people died as a result, and now our country is left financially and morally bankrupt. And you feel that because you can point to a D rather than and R its OK? Tell that to the parents who’s children died for this fallacy.
The leaders only knows what the intel tells them. The intel was very clear the Sadam had bought items that where used to create these weapons. In fact he not only had the ingredients he made and used some of it on a attack on his own people. Was the intel 10 percent correct? No I do not think anybody would dispute that based on what we found. That said the general consensus among our leaders both democrats and republicans was he did and was a threat thus a VOTE by the majority was entered and we went forth.
Such a list can be created of Republicans as well. But none of the created the lies that the Bush/Cheney administration did:
The “mobile weapons lab” that turned out to be a weather balloon filling station made in the UK;
The fabrication (including fake documents) that Iraq had tried to by yellow cake from Niger;
Colin Powell waving the bottle of white powder at the UN;
Claims that Hussein had drone planes capable of attacking the eastern seaboard of the US;
Cheney’s claim that Muhammad Atta had met with Iraqi agents in Romania;
etc.
But it is important to remember that while a few of us vocally doubted these claims, the majority of Americans wanted to believe them, and so the lies proved successful. I’ll remind readers that to date no weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq.
And the lies continued even after the invasion began. The unfortunate creation of hero-Jessica Lynch; denial that white phosphorous was used at Falluja (in violation of the Chemical Weapons ban); etc.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/secret-us-mission-hauls-uranium-iraq/#.TviTMPI4x4M
Cover up the real attackers!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o
I recall that news conference. That clip is out of context and events of the time. Don’t make it something it wasn’t.
I forgot one of the most blatant lies – one equally as unnecessary – that the “Mission Accomplished” banner was made by sailors aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln. In fact, it was made on shore and flown out ahead of George W. Bush’s landing on the aircraft carrier.
Also of note is that the Lincoln was kept at sea for an additional 16 hours for Bush’s publicity stunt, and was sitting less than 10 miles off the California coast when he arrived. The White House staff had the carrier positioned so that the coastline would not be visible in the background. The carrier was to arrive in port the night before.
Of course, all of this would have been known had the US news media simply reported it. Instead, they allowed the theatrics become legend.
Yet none of these people actually took the step to put soldiers lives’ on the line (well, some of these politicians DID vote to authorize it, but it wasn’t their decision to make).
Why?
Because when you come down to it, there was no justifiable reason for us to put our soldiers in harms way in Iraq.
Bush and his administration were dead wrong on this, and you know it.
Typical double speak of the liberal BDN. Honor the wonderful men and woman that gave so much doing the job and then condem the job. I for one both honor your service and the job you did. Well done. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Comdemn, sorry.
The problem is NOT with those soldiers that did their duty, fulfilled their contracts, or even believed the lies they were told… The vast majority behaved honorably. You can exempt the torturers and murderers that took advantage of the situation from that assessment. Those that behaved honorably should be welcomed back blameless. The leadership that lied, deceived, schemed to make billions in profits, that took advantage of the loyal service of honorable men and women in uniform for their own benefit ought to be spending the rest of their lives behind bars. Place blame where blame is due.
Indeed – it was the Bush/Cheney administration that dishonored American servicemen and woman, and those of other nations as well. Not to mention the horrors inflicted on the Iraqis themselves.
Nearly all of us honor the work and sacrifices made by these military personnel and their families. It is a shame that these sacrifices were made without any need.
Absolutely, Gerald. That admin had no qualms with outing a CIA agent whose covert portfolio involved working to understand Iran’s nuclear program. If an original intention of our foreign policy under these powerful people was to include Iran in their war adventures, outing this agent and destroying the work she was doing wouldn’t matter very much, now would it? I don’t want to get too conspiratorial, but I have certainly seen enough in the past 10 years to leave me just a tad cynical. Having no qualms with taking honorable men and women into an immoral war of choice it is certainly easy to believe justification exists for all sorts of nefarious things was/is within the realm of possibility for those elites that are calling the shots for all of us.
Go ask your typical shia muslim walking the streets of Iraq if it was a blunder. It wasnt to them. Go ask a typical Kuwaiti if it was a blunder, again no. Go ask Zarqawi..oh wait..you cant..dead. Go ask one of the THOUSANDS of militant jihadists from all over the muslim world who died fighting the infidel (thats you and me, they dont see any difference) in Iraq if it was a blunder. Again you cant because we killed them. To those of us in the military Iraq was a jihadist roach motel. They got into Iraq but never got back out. Only people back here who werent there and know nothing about it post comments like yours. Had we left Saddam in power and he invaded Kuwait again our gas would be $10 a gallon and we’d be hearing and reading you blame Bush for that too. Spare me. Go Occupy a park someplace hippie.
Sir with all respect to any one in any situation in a military life threatening stage it is you who occupied another country, at the orders of other people, for no legitimate reason what so ever. The jihad was against us as an occupying force the same way it would be in Nebraska if some one from the Middle East occupied them. The Industrial War Machine uses our loyalty to the military soldier to further their sinister profit wars. The war in Iraq was make believe and intentionally lied about by people who are jihadists in lack of decency when it comes to sacrificing their own country’s children for profit margins and the protection of their selfish interests. Then they pay no taxes from off shore mailboxes.
You misunderstand what the situation was in Iraq. Were there “insurgents” there who were basically just Iraqis who wanted us out? Yes there were, and I fully understand their motives for fighting us. Just as you said, if Nebraska were invaded, we would fight the invader. The point Im making is, aside from those sort of “insurgents” we also had Osama Bin Laden picture-carrying jihadists from places like chechnya, malaysia, indonesia, the “stans” Syria, Jordan, Egypt..the list goes on and on, and these other “insurgents” will fight us even after we leave Iraq, and would have fought us even if we had we never invaded Iraq. Defeating that second group of jihadist insurgents was the “win” in the Iraq war. They needed killing before they killed more of us.
“They” will always “need” killing. What needs to be killed is the cycle of manipulative obedience that allows the small percent of selfish, nonchalant to death, war merchants to eternally optimize their sordid enterprises. Furthermore, if Nebraska was occupied, you can be assured that “jihadists” from many other states would be coming to help them.
First of all, what is it that you have against Nebraska? I refuse to chat with an anti-corn bigot just so you know.
As far as your “need” killing comment, Id say anyone that purposefully attacks innocent civilians deserves killing. Jihadi terrorists seek to inflict the most civilian deaths possible when ever they attack, no matter the country they are attacking or the religion of the victims. None of this matters to a Jihadist. Everything to them is a warped version of inshallah. Allahs will. The logic being that if Allah didnt want these infidels dead, why, he would have stopped us. He didnt, so it was Allah’s Will. That sort of “believer” does need killing Cecil. Im not afraid to say it.
Iraq did not kill anybody in the trade towers. Nebraska or Vermont, it’s an example. All religions have their fanatics who use death as a means of control. Christianity has killed many world wide and is always a prop used by the war machine when they need to make some money on war.
Just keeps getting better,keep up the good work
We didn’t occupy anything or we would own every country over in the Middle East. Get your facts straight!
What term would you include in YOUR factual assessment?
let me ask you a question, did we take over leadership of any country in the Middle East? No we did not, we did not take over the Presidency, so no we did not occupy anything. Oh wait did you occupy downtown Bangor?
So you are comparing a sit in in downtown Bangor protesting Wall Street’s ownership of the rule book Congress makes to that of kicking in doors through out the entirely wrong country of Iraq for 8 years? In the words of promoting democracy based upon a lethal capitalistic lie it was an occupation until we decided different.
Iraq became a ‘jihadist motel’ AFTER we invaded…there were no Al Queda in Iraq until we began the stupid war…
our country and the world is much less safe because of the Iraqi war.
sure, liberals occupy parks and conservatives bring down governments..ours and others, tea party anyone ?
Many on the left see Al Queda as an apparition, perhaps 10-20 guys spread out over the mountains of Afghanistan. Well, that is simply not true. Afghanistan was simply their main training area where they had up to 20 training bases for their 10’s of thousands of followers. Their membership was spread from Tunisia to the Philippines from Yemen to Libya and yes to Iraq.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_al-Qaeda_attacks
Al Queda (sic) is a franchise?
Not really, During the Soviet Afghan war 10’s of thousand of people came from all over the Muslim world to fight the Soviets. Many were trained by Bin Laden and his group and owed allegiance to him. After the war they went back to their homelands still supporting Jihad. They recruited and sent folks back to train in the Afghan. Until they were defeated in Afghanistan and subsequently in Iraq they were still a major threat. They still have major groups operating particularly in Yemen.
Folks need to set aside country borders when it considering this group. They don’t believe in them.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/25/al-qaida-leadership-pakistan-africa
So now all we need to do is claim that there is an Al Queda (sic) affiliate in country X, then let the bombs fly.
Convenient story.
Sort of a renewable casus belli, eh?
$10 per gallon?
So it was just a war for oil.
Too bad we cannot ask the typical Muslim Shia who are no longer walking the streets.
Very good ,Sir
Deposing tyrants is not our job. If it were, there are literally dozens of countries who have dictators worse than Saddam was.
Cram it wandini.
What’t the matter….Can’t handle the truth? If you don’t think they had WMD then your’re dumber than I thought. Did you forget about the mustard gas used against the Kurds? Oh wait you must not consider that a form of WMD.
Components of which were supplied from US stocks… of course it was known to be in Iraq. Rumsfeld was involved with the transactions that got the stuff in saddam’s hands.
You swallowed the propaganda hook, line, and sinker, even AFTER all of the justifications the Bush cabal used to bolster its case have been thoroughly trashed through documentation brought to light after the fact, all of the dissent suppressed in the run up to war from State Dept experts denying the Bush claims, from UN inspectors, from diplomats and high level officials, and from Iraqi archives captured during the occupation.
Repeating the same old tired lies doesn’t prove anything except that you and the wandini are behind in your thinking on this.
The cost over one trillion? Try three or four trillion, likely more, when you factor in long term care for the soldiers devastated by this rich man’s boondoggle. Obscene doesn’t even begin to express the perverseness of the thinking that got us into Iraq.
The long-term interest on the Iraq War debt, the cost of lifetime care for wounded veterans and replacement of worn-out weapons will likely put the cost into multiple trillions. It all fit well into the Republicans plans to destroy the federal government’s “socialist” functions like Medicare by dramatically increasing the national debt.
After 9/11, the American people were united in wanting to personally contribute to the response, and we would have welcomed a $1 a gallon tax increase on gas to do it. Instead we were told to go shopping, and let the military and their families bear the real cost of the chickenhawk neocons’ war, which wound up benefiting only Iran and Saudi Arabia.
You are obviously not a fan of the Iraq war, yet you heap scorn upon the only Republican candidate to vote against it??
I admit I was an Obama Independent, but he has done nothing to stem the tide of war, merely changed fronts. At this rate we will be in Iran & Afghanistan in another year. I just don’t see Pres Obama having the tesicle fortitude to do much of anything.
At least Ron Paul has not changed his veiws with the political winds. His non-interventionist policy would safe us huge amounts of money, and make our borders more secure.
As for the racist label, I think he has done a reasonable job dicrediting his authorship of papaers written in the 80’s. Is he perfect? absolutely not, and some of his nuttier ideas would never come to pass. But he is the only honest person running for the office.
Ron Paul 2012.
Any one urging for a war with Iran should be institutionalized in a remote mental facility in say..GITMO!!
“So the long war is over, and its lesson is clear: Although wars of
defense can be essential, making “contingency” or “preventive” war
against a hostile or offensive nation is most likely to lead to a long,
deadly, expensive and ultimately inconclusive conflict. That is what has
happened with the U.S. effort in Iraq. It has happened before, and we
should know better to not let it happen again.
Some Americans want such a war with Iran or North Korea. They are wrong and should be disregarded.”
Absolutely. However, the cynicism I feel, spawned by events of the last few years, leads me to think that that minority of “americans” is likely to get their way. There are profits to be made, and nothing will stand in the way of securing them, not even an overwhelming majority of American, or world, opinion. I hope I am wrong…
Tyrants NEED an enemy to legitimize their repression and distract from their larceny.
Except for the fact that the stimulus did what it was intended to do, and would have done more if repugs hadn’t prevented it from being large enough.
Analysis ad nauseam that proves the anti-stimulus crowd to be either clueless or dishonest:
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2011/12/david-romer-evidence-for-the-effectiveness-of-fiscal-policy.html
“They went to war with overwhelming support of their people.” Only in your narrow little world. Millions upon millions of people demonstrated WORLDWIDE against what was, and still is, on its face a stupid, unsubstantiated, deceptive, profiteering WAR OF CHOICE. It was arguably a war of aggression and a crime against humanity.
A minority of warmongering cheerleaders might have been giving the Bush cabal “overwhelming support,” but the overwhelming majority of thinking, caring human beings loudly and continuously said no.
Nice try at your alternative history but it is BS. 100% BS.
Why was this needless? It had to be done!
Why?
Read the above Robert.
It wasn’t needless that’s my point!
Didn’t see all of you complaining about this war saying anything about dropping 2 atomic bombs 50+ years ago! And by the way, I’m glad we did!
Yeah it’s agood thing all those innocent lives were lost…great job!
How about the over 3000 Americans that were murdered on 9-11? When will you people wake the hell up!
No kidding!! But murdered by whom? It wasn’t Iraq!! Saudi Arabia! Why haven’t we invaded that country genius?
Maybe you should wake up and ask yourself how steel skyscrapers fall from fire? (first time in history)
Or how other steel structures fall for no apparent reason ( wtc 7).
Or how three planes fly around us air space for hours with no interception!
Or how convenient it was that NORAD was conducting ” war games” that included hijacking scenarios that had phantom planes appearing on radar screens confusing the heck out of the air traffic controllers ( there is audio of this) ?
Or how a pilot who couldn’t fly a Cessna managed to pull off some remarkable aviation in a jet liner? Or how a drivers license could survive a fire that took down a steel skyscraper, not to mention the impact of the plane, and fall to the sidewalk?
What’s that got to do with Iraq? Afghanistan is connected, Iraq had nothing to do with it. In fact, Bush dishonored the victims of 911 by using it as an excuse to invade. Pathetic and awful.
Oh and by the way, if people think we actually pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan, you are sorely mistaken!
That’s because the believed the Bush and Cheney’s lies.
Iraq was a joke. Afghanistan is a very sick joke.
The media is to blame. They spend their time trying to sell us war rather than doing their job as defined in the constitution . We do not need to be at war with anyone! Period! Stop listening to the lies! If anyone should be overthrown its the corporate shills in the white house.
The Constitution does not define the media’s job.
Not literally.
Point being we don’t have a free press just a bunch of corporate shills.
The point of a press corps was to keep the three branches of govt truly in check. Not to help them get away with murder. The press was, for awhile, the fourth branch of govt. That was the intention of the founding fathers.
12000 contractors in Iraq… And it’s over? confusing?
Oh I see, when the current president declares the war is over, the BDN jumps aboard. When W declared the combat was over you people howled.
Was the war over? The fake cowboy wasn’t even close.
Yup, and for the three tours to the region that I did from 2001-2006, you’re welcome…because you’re all making me (and all those who served) feel really loved and appreciated right now.
Thankyou for your service.
You and the job you’ve done ARE appreciated by the majaority of true Americans.
It’s not about you. It’s about the citizens of this country being lied to by their President.
You are loved and appreciated. You should not think otherwise. Wars are complicated topics, but
everyone I know feels a very deep gratitude for your and your fellow soldiers’ contribution. There is no way that any of us can repay you for your sacrifice.
Are you saying that your tours are their own justification? If you served honorably, thanks, but being sent to war doesn’t by itself justify the war. Iraq was needless. Afghanistan arguably so as well.
As Tom Waits has so elegantly stated in his song, Day After Tomorrow, “I am not fighting for justice / I am not fighting for freedom / I am fighting for my life / and another day in the world here.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKMfozWmfX4&NR=1
Being sent to war in an immoral war of choice does not make you wrong, it means you were sent to war needlessly.
Its not about you.
What’s this country coming to, running only two wars that we know about? Now that the communists are our biggest trading partner after a long cold war and Cuba, Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia and how many lives in an effort to stop its spread, one can only conclude that soon we will be in full swing trading with the terrorists. Bombs, bullets and fighter aircraft are big business, someone somewhere will be needing these things, all we have to do is figure out is who’s next, after all we need to protect our interests.
We freed a entire country that was held under the power of a single ruthless dictator. Who by the way killed countless of his own people who disagreed with him in any way.
You can call it what you want but if you think that was ” a colossal blunder ” your just a sad person. We AMERICA did it. Was it popular no. Was it the RIGHT thing to do even though the reasons for doing it where not realized HELL yes. How can any rational person say freeing a nation is ever bad? We as a nations have freed a good part of this world at one time or another in our all be it short existence. What truly makes us different is when we free a nation we do nto claim it but rather return it to the PEOPLE.
Good God! It isn’t our business to “free” anybody. And doing the “right” thing. What the $$$$! If those reasons were the American mandate we’d be at war with half the world! Nobody here is saying Saddam Hussain was a good guy but his existence was no reason to go into Iraq. Supposedly the war was in retaliation for the World Trade Center bombing and to dissuade Saddam from developing weapons of mass destruction. Bush et al were wrong on both justifications! Meanwhile, 8 years later, thousands of Americans have died for Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” political propaganda machine while Cheney’s company made billions off the US.
There had to be a response to 9/11. We could not tolerate more terrorism.
Same old BS line we’ve been hearing for the last 10 years. Wasn’t true then, isn’t true now, but the power of nightmares is just what the ruling elite know works for the gullible and easily duped.
Adam Curtis for the BBC:
http://thoughtmaybe.com/video/the-power-of-nightmares
The AUMF, that is, the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002, was enacted in October 2002. Barack Obama was not sworn in as a US senator until January 2005, or more than two years later.To answer your question, Obama was an Illinois State senator.
If you read I said that. A quote from my post:
” Where was Obama in 2002? A first term State Senator in Illinois,
avoiding taking a stand (according to Hilary Clinton) on the tough
issues. 129 present votes.”
It was a rhetorical question that may have escaped you.
Or a cleverly written obfuscation at Obama meant to take advantage of reader’s ignorance?
clever, you are giving her too much credit, but her idiotic remarks and factoids are confusing
Facts are confusing aren’t they.
You give me too much credit. My initial post was a response to the editor not another poster.
To wit: “President Obama, who as an Illinois state senator had opposed war
against Iraq as
a “dumb war,” wrote in 2007 that the Iraq invasion was a
war “that never should have been authorized and never should have been
waged.” ~~~~BDN editor
My point which may have eluded you was that while many people were making tough decisions regarding the Iraq war Obama was voting “present” as a State Senator according to Hillary Clinton.
.
I do very much appreciate you refuting her comments. The ‘facts’ she offers are as dependable as Michele Bachmanns.
More us military troops have committed suicide than have been killed in combat in then
At two years….let that sink a bit.
Maybe consider the massive psychological damage we are doing to these young men and women before we ship them off to fight for haliburton and GE. They certainly are not fighting for anything I believe in. Wait a second, is there congressional approval for us being in Afghanistan?!
More suicides than people killed in combat…
http://rt.com/news/us-soldiers-suicide-combat-487/
Here the link
And just when you perhaps thought that the 9/11 attacks couldn’t be b*stardized even further and used as justification for more war in the Mid-East:
U.S. District Court Rules Iran Behind 9/11 Attacks
http://www.bloomberg.com/article/2011-12-23/aYoOcZ6NT3wo.html
Iran holds about 10% of the world’s oil reserves in case you don’t think oil might have something to do with it.
You think you should be taxed less because the government doesn’t know how to use them properly? Go ahead, get behind this war effort.
DemocRATs only like democRAT wars!
From what I have gathered Cheney and Haliburton profited enormous amounts of Government cash, They should all be very much ashamed of their profiteering in a time of War, The Troops deserve at least that much!
Bush and Cheney are War Criminals. Lying the USA into a needless and useless war. Now the Country is bankrupt and the blood of war dead are on these criminals hands.
Haliburton, No bid contracts to Blackrock, an embedded press that allows the numbers of Iraqies dead to go uncounted, by our country that feels no shame. Can anybody in this country remember shock and awe. What was that about?
Typical BDN blather. I could have written it before I read it.
I have no love for any of those politicians. But the decision to invade rests squarely on the shoulders of the Bush administration.
The Iraq war was a colossal waste of resources and borrowed money.