AUGUSTA, Maine — Even as lawmakers seek to close the $221 million Medicaid budget gap, other areas of state spending, including tax breaks for businesses, are expected to be scrutinized during the coming legislative session.
The state’s budget problems may grow in January as shortfalls in other state agencies and potential reductions in federal funding are identified, according to lawmakers.
“It seems fair and equitable to look at the entire budget and that is what we want to do,” said Rep. Peggy Rotundo, D-Lewiston, lead Democrat on the Appropriations Committee. “We know there is a shortfall at [Maine Department of Health and Human Services], but we don’t know about the rest of government.”
She was instrumental in having committee staff members assemble a list of the many tax breaks currently on the books for businesses that were discussed earlier in the month. She said tax expenditures should be on the table for discussion as well as other spending items.
“We are interested in looking at the budget as a whole,” she said.
Rep. Pat Flood, R-Winthrop, House co-chairman of the panel, said he doubts that a discussion on tax breaks will be “productive” in meeting the demands for balancing the budget. He said the Taxation Committee, which is the forum for considering tax policy, reviews business tax policies regularly.
“We have done those reviews and analysis of those things ad nauseum, and it is really hard to get closure on whether those things work or not,” he said.
Sen. Richard Rosen, R-Bucksport, said the only issue before the committee right now is the Medicaid shortfall and Gov. Paul LePage’s proposal to fill that gap. He said while there may be another supplemental budget, the committee cannot act on speculation.
“We can only deal with what is before us,” he said.
Finance Commissioner Sawin Millett has told the panel there will be at least two more budget bills for the Legislature to consider. One is the measure to implement the $25 million in cuts found by the budget streamlining task force of which he was chairman; and a second for the growing list of non-Medicaid budget problems the state faces.
“That should be ready by mid- to late January,” he said in a recent interview. He said it would be the “traditional” supplemental budget that addresses such items as fuel costs to heat state buildings and other budget shortfalls across all state agencies. It also will address non-Medicaid budget needs at DHHS, such as a shortfall in General Assistance.
Sen. Dawn Hill, D-York, the only democratic Senator on the panel, said unlike House Democrats, Senate Democrats have yet to caucus on the budget proposal. She said there are several options for dealing with the budget, including limiting the Medicaid fix to the remaining months of this fiscal year and considering the second budget year of Medicaid needs along with all the other budget demands.
“I am not sure where I come down,” she said. Hill said she is “not ready” to tackle business tax breaks as part of the solution until she has more information on those that may not be performing.
“That discussion can lead to uncertainty that then leads to businesses deciding to place their investments elsewhere where they believe the climate is more certain and more dependable,” said Sen. Chris Rector, R-Thomaston, co-chairman of the Legislature’s Labor, Commerce and Economic Development Committee. He said the committee has looked at tax policies and determined that many have created jobs, including the Pine Tree Zone program started by then-Gov. John Baldacci, a Democrat.
Rector agrees that the various tax breaks for businesses need to be reviewed on a regular basis to make sure they are working. He said a good model would be the one his committee uses to assess research and development bond expenditures.
But not all in the business community agree with Rector that a review would be negative. Chris Hall, vice president of the Greater Portland Chamber of Commerce, said with the serious budget problems the state faces, the business community should expect current tax benefits to be challenged.
“I think this is a conversation we know has been coming for a while, that is inevitable,” he said. “If these studies are correct, we are going to find that a lot of what we have on the books is working for us.”
Hall said a recent ranking by the tax firm of Ernst and Young indicated Maine has the best business tax investment climate in the country. He said that has been the result of bipartisan efforts over the last decade to craft tax policies to help create and save jobs.
“It’s very important to look at the number of jobs we have kept in the state because of our tax policies,” he said.
The Appropriations Committee meets again Jan. 3 to work on the governor’s budget proposals.
Tax Breaks are only a political sales gimick ,
designed for the rich ,
the results of which are perpetraited on the working class
and delivered upon the poor!
You got that right!
I find it interesting that Pat Flood, the House Co-Chair, has automatically decided that any encompassing review of revenue, including tax revenue, now all of a sudden isn’t within the realm of the Appropriations Committee. I wonder if he is interested in how much a person pays for fines levied by Inland Fisheries and Wildlife?, does that count as revenue?….it goes into the general fund just like tax revenue does. The general fund is what his committee gets to play with.
I know for a fact, because I’ve been through many of them, that legislative commitee’s and their bill considerations are often within the dynamics of other committees. In other words, there have been many hearings held where there are two committees present.
It sounds to me that he just doesn’t or isn’t willing to talk about it, how much do you want to bet that he will have to do just that. If he feels that tax revenues are solely under the jurisdiction of the Taxation Committee, then he has no business being in the position that he is in.
I wondered the same thing. When the right talks about voter registration, they invent a problem to solve, voter fraud. When they talk about a revenue shortfall, they are not allowed to see past the immediate problem and refuse to enlarge their field of view. Just more hypocrisy from the right.
Hall said a recent ranking by the tax firm of Ernst and Young indicated Maine has the best business tax investment climate in the country. He said that has been the result of bipartisan efforts over the last decade to craft tax policies to help create and save jobs
Simple solution…any businesses receiving tax breaks that aren’t employing MORE people than they were since getting the tax breaks LOSE THEM. No business should be getting tax breaks for the purpose of creating jobs if they aren’t actually employing more people.
I agree. If the state has to sacrifice in order to dole out these breaks, we ought to be able to ask for something in return.
hear hear
Business tax break can and do prevent job losses. Would you suggest taking away the tax credit when empoyees are actually retained instead of laid off on account of the tax break?
Don’t let them get to ya. These are the same people who think that the more folks we have on unemployment is “stimulus”.
I do not believe that at all. But I do believe that if you do cut benefits for any one that needs help (unemployed, poor, elderly etc. You should hold that tax levels the same till you see the result. Tax credits etc that are implemented at the same time will only lead to more people needing help from programs that no longer will exist.
This in turn could lead to some type of insurrection…that no one wants.
You are building a pathway down instead of a pathway up. Unemployment support is necessary but incentive even more so. Your method just leaves business a place to safely stick their money. US government debt.
empoyees are actually retained instead of laid off on account of the tax break?
Sure, Just like payroll Tax Breaks, the employer takes it in the form of NO raise in an offset.
All they do is play one state agense the other ive seen it first hand with the railroad they kept going from one state to the other
Where do you get the notion that tax breaks for businesses helps? The overall effect is to shift taxes from new businesses to existing businesses. Many reputable Conservative economists are calling for elimination of all tax subsidies to business. They distort the market and saddle local municipalities with employers who pay little for the services they use. If Augusta gives a 10 year tax abatement to a company in Bangor whose employees mostly live in Veazie, how does that help Bangor? The people who live there will see their taxes rise so that Veazie and Augusta do better?
Pretty much all of Maine is part of the “Pine Tree Zone” (the business tax cut program mentioned in the article). Basically, businesses within certain sectors designated as desireable by the state legislature (biotechnology and telecommunications, for instance, but NOT retail or hospitality) are given 10 years of essentially NO taxes paid if they create at least ONE full time job with benefits when they move to or expand in Maine. Parts of Cumberland county only offer a 5 year tax break but businesses can lobby to receive the 10 year break and these efforts are often successful. These businesses receive payroll tax returns and reap the benefits of tax incremental financing (TIF) agreements.
It is ridiculous to even suggest cutting these tax breaks because all states offer them as incentives to draw businesses. This kind of tax break one upmanship between states is regularly compared to an arms race. There have been times when governors have pledged to meet and negotiate an end to using these kinds of tax incentives because the tax breaks really cost states a lot in lost revenue but those kinds of post-campaign promises are quickly forgotten!
There are a several problems with tax incentives: lost revenue for the state that often exceeds the financial benefits from the new business (like income taxes from new jobs created); some businesses milk tax incentives by moving their business from state to state (10 years in one state, tax free, then on to the next), and–in Maine–our blanket tax incentives don’t encourage economic growth where is it needed most. Take Kittery and Lincoln, for example. It is pretty clear that Lincoln more desparately needs job creation and economic growth than Kittery, plus it is farther from major shipping centers, has a smaller workforce population, etc. (essentially, it is at a strategic disadvantage for economic growth) yet both towns offer the same business tax breaks by state mandate. This doesn’t make sense–Maine should encourage business growth where it is most needed to demostrate results. Otherwise, we are just giving out free money.
There is no such thing as “free money”…..somebody pays……and you know that.
Hall said a recent ranking by the tax firm of Ernst and Young indicated Maine has the best business tax investment climate in the country. He said that has been the result of bipartisan efforts over the last decade to craft tax policies to help create and save jobs
I wonder where our beloved conservative Governor is?
Lurking in some dark alley
How would you know?
At this point, with a deficit, to ask us to continue these cuts and breaks is merely asking us to subsidize Maine businesses.
So we should continue to support lazy welfare bums while the rest of us working folks continue to struggle. These folks continue to live the good life with their new cars and trucks, satellite dishes, swimming pools , big screen tv’s. While working folks like myself struggle paying for these people. It is time for them to get out and get jobs like the rest of us.
That’s not even related to the issue at hand. We have a deficit and the question is whether we’re going to make that deficit even larger by subsidizing businesses with tax breaks that we can’t afford.
It is related to the issues. All of you Liberals play class warfare and want to raise taxes on businesses while Welfare isn’t cut. No these breaks need to stay and Welfare needs to be on the chopping block. Mainers can’t afford to subsidize these lazy idiots anymore. They need to get off their lazy butts off the couch put down their soda’s , potato chips , remote away from the tv and computer and get jobs like the rest of us working folks. I am tired of paying for them to have the good life. This state is dead last in everything while being at the tops in amount of folks on the dole. You Anti-Business, Anti-Job Libs want us to be “taken care” of and be dependent on Augusta. Well those days are over, you don’t have the Liberal Anti-Business Maine Dems to save you folks anymore. January 4th when the legislature comes back into session can’t come fast enough. All of you idiots better fire up the car and start polishing your resume because that time is coming.
“All of you liberals?” A few posts ago I was trying to figure out what a Socialist, Marxist, Communist was, and whether he was including those of us who vote Democrat?
Yes, by giving tax breaks for job creation the state of Maine can make the deficit larger, as you say, or smaller if revenues increase from resulting increased business profits and an expanded labor market. During the last election people wanted a change because the old way of managing government in the prior three decades wasn’t working. That’s why the Democrat party nominee garnered very few votes. Most votes went to LePage and a third party candidate who favored a more business friendly approach.
We’ve already seen that tax breaks for business don’t create jobs. The breaks we’re discussing now are already in place — notice the pickle we’re in? They don’t make a difference beyond adding to our deficit. Having a demand is what creates jobs. Businesses don’t hire unless there is market for what they’re offering. Second, your point about LePage is so laughable that I’m not even going to address it. Two liberals split the vote allowing LePage to squeak into office — you don’t need to revise history in order to express yourself.
The best chance the Liberals had to win was nominate Rosa Scarcelli a conservative outsider a business person with no ties to Augusta. Instead the idiots nominated ‘Liberal’ Mitchell a career politician who was has been involved with Augusta in some way for nearly 40 years. Who most feel is the major part of what is wrong with Augusta. They nominated her because she would have kept the way things were in the toilet. While the rest were calling for major change and overhaul.
Still, more dirt has been dug up and positive changes in the past 11 months that past 30 yrs
When you dig holes dirt always comes up!
Your quite a wit.. dim or nit….dilwit …..anything you say albert
How many times do you reread all these posts??? Addicting??
Use of the “I” word resulted in a flush of one of my posts. I see you move on freely unfettered by such restrictions. It’s amazing how you fling your labels calling people Marxist Communist Socialists. You sound much akin – if I dare – like a Brown Shirt.
After 12 months of the worst governor the state has ever suffered, Libby Mitchell would have been a Godsend. Communist Marxist Socialists do not believe in God.
giving tax breaks for job creation
Thats worn out!
We all know that it is just pocketed!
Tax em, Taxem hard.
Yes, so every 40 years we think we can do better and change for 4 and then go back for forty more!!!
Corporate welfare is ok, but individual welfare is a sin? What kind of universe do you live in?
Your side has always said that Cutler was the same as Mitchell. Doesn’t this mean that 2/3 of the votes were against LePage? Or are you now changing the story to say that Cutler was different from the Democrat? Please try to keep your lies straight.
and giving business’s an unnecessary tax break is going to stop your whaling? Do you think that this policy will help you? How? Working folks like yourself? You pay taxes just like everyone else, what makes you think that every dollar that you pay in taxes goes to welfare? You know, that same tax dollar pays: the governor’s salary, the DHHS commissioner’s salary, every state trooper, every legislator, ……You make it sound like you are not getting your money’s worth. If you want a big screen TV, a new vehicle, and a pool…….go buy them and quit whining that you are doing what everyone else has to do.
Is that why more than 55% of the country doesn’t pay taxes they mooch off of the Government dole. Is that why more than 60% of Mainers are on some sort of Government subsidy. You liberals are so full of yourselves. You need reality we are broke, dead last in everything. Our roads and bridges are pathetic. Democrats destroyed our education system to the point over 75% of Maine schools are failing. Shared prosperity , Shared Sacrifice that liberals like Libby Mitchell, Emily Cain, Cynthia Dill, Peggy Rotundo, Baldacci, King etc. have pushed for 40 years has failed. Their “investments” they claim Maine needs to make has fallen flat. The taxes you claim Welfare bums pay is nothing more than working people’s money that we paid in recirculated back to Augusta. So them paying taxes is a myth. All they have done is gotten a free ride and life the easy way for years. They haven’t had their fingers dirty. Well it is about time for them to accept reality next week when the legislature returns. Because they better start marching down to the career center and start looking for jobs because that is what they will be getting soon.
You do of course realize that the reason 55% of the country doesn’t pay any taxes is because they do not make enough to pay taxes, right? The wages are stuck in the early 90’s while the top 1% have seen their pots of gold explode by 300% in the last 20 years alone. Thanks mostly to “free” trade and our own lust for cheap Chinese crap. We are being played like fiddles by the top 1% and their political lap dogs, on both sides of the aisle. Buy American, pay your fair share in taxes, and stay to hell out of ChinaMart while there is still one American left with a decent job. The 6 Walton heirs are now worth more than the bottom 96 million Americans. I think they could afford to give their workers a raise. Maybe then, we would not have to pay for their employee’s groceries, heating oil, and health care.
Is that why more than 55% of the country doesn’t pay taxes they mooch off of the Government dole
Come on Darkcat.
EVERYONE gets the same tax rate on the initial subsistance level of income. if you want to be fair by your standard and tax it, you would be taxed additional as well!
Of course then you would be screaming about your Tax dollars going to all the people in jail who became so desperate that they where robbing banks.
” The taxes you claim corporations pay is nothing more than working
people’s money that we paid in recirculated back to Augusta. So them
paying taxes is a myth. All they have done is gotten a free ride and
life the easy way for years. They haven’t had their fingers dirty.”
See the difference? I replaced 2 words.
Bull. The worst welfare cases in this country are the major corporations and billionaires who live off tax breaks. GE the largest company in the world, pays no taxes. Go figure.
What kind of a dream world are you lost in? On a few hundred dollars of asisstance money you could afford all those luxury items? After rent, electric, heat, and a car payment to Bangor Car Care of $200 a month. And not everyone gets the maximum in food stamps and TANIF because they hold part time jobs at low wages. How about those 30 hour a week jobs at Walmart so the Waltons don’t have to pay overtime or full wages so the state can pick up the diffrence and subsidise their business. Perhaps you run one of those scams yourself?
Bull these folks are living the good life and have been for 40 years. They are just too lazy to get jobs. All of these folks who supposedly we are subsidizing have satellite dishes, new automobiles, swimming pools. They claim they are poor or disabled when infact they can chase the mailman for their welfare checks. Now that we have real leadership with LePage and the Republicans in charge things are starting to get fixed. It is time to put the hammer down, either make them get jobs or send them to the bus depot and get on a Greyhound or Vermont Transit bus. Send them south or north To Canada have those folks subsidizing them. We need to focus on helping our job creators and working folks. Something Liberal Maine Democrats failed to do and have no idea to help create jobs. Why because most of them come from the Social Welfare Sector.
Ahhhh – Now it becomes clear. Your post takes ludicrous poor baiting beyond any extreme that could be considered normal or sane, so you must be a parody conservative.
No one sane actually believes that “All of these folks who supposedly we are subsidizing have satellite dishes, new automobiles, swimming pools. ”
You had folks going for a while there darkcat!
Imagine, someone actually crazy enough to believe that ALL welfare recipients have satellite dishes, new automobiles and swimming pools.!
lol, of course this must be a silly joke.
Really come to Madison or even Skowhegan then. Because their is alot of folks who collect welfare but are living the good life. These folks collect Welfare but have new automobiles, satellite dishes (directv or dish network), have swimming pools. While those of us work struggle. Why aren’t these folks who collect assistance not being punished for abusing the system. Take your Liberal blinders off , get you head out of the sand. Their is abuse here in Maine.
Why haven’t you reported them? An anonymous tip would do the trick.
Excellent question ademain. Here’s your big chance to put your money where your big mouth is dark. If you know so many blatant abusers why haven’t you made some calls? You spew your accusations and opinions, now do something besides talk.
The abuse has become so pervasive you don’t even see it anymore. The system once built to support those who couldn’t support themselves is collapsing under the added weight of those added to this system who WON’T support themselves. Yes, they have cellphones, nice vehicles and toys I can’t afford. The definition of poor in this country would make you rich in most of the rest of the world. The answer people like you always come back to time after time is “tax the rich, tax businesses, tax someone else, tax tax tax. Never ever would you even consider weeding out these abusers of our system. They are victims because there are no jobs out there? Many of these people are second and third generation system abusers. They are everywhere and it is out of control and needs to stop. Those of us paying in to support this nonsense are tapped out. No more.
Not disagreeing with you, but if you know of an abuser & don’t report it, you become part of the problem. If you don’t see it, how do you know it’s there? Take away the cell phones & toys, but don’t kick granny to the curb instead because it’s easier.
If, as you claim, you know of excessive abuse of the welfare system, the easiest thing is to check in with the local or state welfare departments.
Without a car how would they ever be able to go and pick up their food stamps, or, get the kids to school?
Your rage over the ones you claim have dug in pools in their backyards, could be checked very easily with a simple telephone call to the State Welfare department. Or, even your own municipal welfare assistance department.
Teapublicans love to punish the peasants. Throwing people in jail for taking advantage of welfare benefits only adds to the deficit. Compensatory municipal or state work would be better than running out of gold for the millionaires.
Blah blah blah ad nauseum
The only people publicized for having it all and living off food stamps, were a doctor and his wife in Florida. The TV showed a lakefront mansion, swimming pool, satellite dish, high powered speed boat. They’d made more than $350,000 from food stamps whilst working as doctors. The woman claimed she was a single mother.
If there are any Maine people living like that, I’d really be surprised. Being poor or unemployed is no joy.
And do us a favor lad, check your governor listings for the past 40 years.
That tinfoil in his hat must be tuned to Limbaugh
“new cars and trucks, satellite dishes, swimming pools, big screen tvs”. Ayuh, you described the rich begging for more tax breaks exactly.
Shut WVOM off and think for yourself. “…with their new cars and trucks, satellite dishes, swimming pools , big screen tv’s.” You serious? On welfare benefits? If “they” are spending so much money, the economy would be booming. You’ve got the anger down pat but you don’t have the facts down at all. Where are the jobs all these ‘lazy bums’ should be getting?
If only you knew what you were talking about and said something truthfull instead of spewing your right-wing hate filled lies.
You. Are. Out. Of. Your. Mind.
LOL..you don’t know a damn thing about what you are talking about. Get a life, loose the nasty hateful attitude, and pay a little more attention to your own problems. God forbid someone buy a new car or truck, or a new tv, or install a swimming pool or satellite dish, OH NO! if they have money to buy those things they must be “welfare bums” LOL…i can’t stop laughing! Sad thing is, you actually believe that garbage.
That’s what 24/7 Murdochian Limbaugh Pie does to you.
What % do you figure are no-good bums who don’t want to work and good bums who can’t find a job? You talk as if there is a job just waiting for these folks. Quit lying about that. Corporate welfare is still welfare. I’d rather see 100 people get 1000 dollars than 1 person get 100,000. From your perspective seeing 1 person driving by with his yacht is better than seeing 100 people smoking cigarettes bought with welfare funds.
And what would you do with the majority of welfare recipients? The mentally crippled, the physically crippled? The kids whose parent(s) is/are in jail, in the Armed Forces? (Yes, there are military families on welfare!)
Your answers are so simple. Too bad reality isn’t so simple. You would rather see old people starve to death in a cold building that take a chance that one person is abusing the system. You would rather have corporate types make promises that if you just give them another million, they’ll create another job, rather than see a disabled man get a check every month. Nice. This is so far from the reasoning of the founding fathers that you should be ashamed to be called an American.
Stop calling people lazy welfare bums you small minded mean spirited schmuck. My husband and I are hard working poor people on Maine Care and I resent every word you say. We both work and still qualify for Main Care so get your facts straight. We work very hard physically demanding seasonal labor jobs…that’s right labor…back breaking exhausting labor. So you can take you high and mighty cream puff pencil pushing self and ram it where the sun doesn’t shine. Talking to someone a rigid and close minded as you is useless because I am a hard working poor person not a jerk whisperer.
Yeah! Them lazy Welfare bums really tick me off!!
http://www.drunktiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/the-rich-lifestyle.jpg
Where did you get the notion that tax breaks are subsidies? If that’s the case, than more than half of the Maine working population that is not paying income taxes is receiving subsidies.
If you’re going to parrot a talking point, at least get it right. That 47% statistic is misleading on its own, but it doesn’t even refer to Maine’s income tax. We’re talking Maine’s tax code here.
Yes, I agree, Maine tax code needs to be changed by eliminating its tax on income. Taxing income only discourages income generation.
Maine doesn’t publish those statistics so it seems unfair to ask someone to rely exclusively on the non-existent. In reality, if you pay no federal income tax, it’s highly unlikely you pay any State income tax either. If you check your State tax form you’ll see much of it is transposed directly from the federal form. The Governor proposed in January of 2011, as part of his budget, that Maine taxes be directly linked to the Federal tax structure. That is, if you paid a tax to the Government, your Maine tax would simply be a portion thereof. No need for any separate assessments or deductions to calculate. It also means that if you pay no federal tax, you pay no Maine income tax; hence the 47% statistic would directly correlate from federal tax to State tax non-payment.
It’s far more reasonable to imply a State ratio from the Federal data than to draw any conclusion from the absence of that direct data don’t you think?
No, it’s absolutely not. The income tax levels/tiers for federal and state are MASSIVELY different, as are the available tax credits, breaks and loopholes. To make such an inference is ignorant. But the point of parroting that talking point isn’t to be informative, so I guess expecting facts in this case IS asking for a lot.
Half of the population in Maine is working for minimum wage. Do you suppose that has anything to do with the budget short falls in Augusta and Washington? The failure of wages to keep pace with inflation is destroying this once great nation, unless of course you are in the top 1%, then life has never been better.
Wages have not kept pace because of a failing economy. The remedy is to improve the economy. That said, you seem to forget what created the current recession: the housing market bust brought about by loans to people who could not afford them. Also, excessive spending and debt by both the private and public sectors continues to play a huge negative role.
The wages started falling behind 20 years ago when the dim wits in Washington enacted “free” trade. It is not due to the failing economy, it is the reason the economy is failing. Which came first? The chicken or the egg?
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Actually you have a point. “Free trade” has not served us well is some respects on account of unfair working practices. I think the country needs to learn a lesson from that as well.
“Free” trade has done us dirty on so many levels here in Maine that I would not know where to start. We probably got the shaft worse than any other state when they closed down the shoe shops, textile mills, and other manufacturing and sent them over seas for fun and profit. Every job we had in Maine that payed a living wage and paid taxes has been changed into minimum wage, part time positions in big box stores. Our one and only defense is to refuse to buy it if it is not made in America, or better yet, made in Maine. Waiting for Washington to grow a spine or a conscience is a fool’s game. Waiting for the top 1% to move the factories back and put America in front of greed is total lunacy.
The corner store or local supermarket doesn’t pay any better then the “big box” stores. Why are you so ig-nor-ant?
Thank Bill Clinton if you don’t like NAFTA.
I’ve just realized. Your an angry failed business owner. I’m sorry for your plight but you need to be directing your anger towards the government. PERIOD. your like my 85 year old father. it’s all small picture to you. Start thinking about why it happens. Angry with China? waste of time. Walmart. Rail against them, it’s like peeing in the ocean. The government gives them the power to do what they do. Your not a kid great. Your still don’t appear very smart.
So lets see, you want “gubmint” to increase wages by law, thereby making production costs increase, so retail costs increase, so the consumer buys less of a higher priced product, so the manufacturers sell less and need fewer employees, particularly the least skilled, lowest paid employees.
Higher wages means fewer jobs for those who need them the most, fewer products sold and less taxes paid by consumers for those products. Right, that will make everything better.
The answer to an improved economy is for the government to leave it alone and let market forces determine what is manufactured, for what cost and sold at what price. Including the cost of labor.
Are we talking about the cost of Chinese labor? American labor is fast becoming a thing of the past. The wages always kept pace with inflation before “free” trade. Now the money that used to be used for cost of living increases in wages is now ending up in some traitor’s safe that off shored their factory for fun and insane profits. It is all becoming a moot point anyway. A $350 billion annual trade defecit with China is unsustainable. It has already put us over $1 trillion in the hole to a communist regime. We are currently running trade defecits with 88 nations to the tune of $550 billion. How long do you see this continuing before we are all broke?
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A feeble attempt at distraction from the issue. No, its American labor that should be market regulated not controlled by the AMERICAN government. Is it even possible that you could think that cheap Chinese labor would be affected by increasing the American minimum wage, the topic of the comment? If anything, increasing wages here would export still more labor jobs to China, while eliminating a minimum wage would bring them back. Duh.
I have read some real whoppers on here about how to fix our economic problems, but eliminating the minimum wage to bring back jobs from China is by far the most laughable. We could put everybody at $20 a week and the Waltons could have 3 or 400 billion. Then they would have more than half of all Americans instead of a measly 30%.
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Unskilled labor is cheap. like it or not that’s the reality. The wage in Maine is equal to the skill required for the jobs. McDonald’s doesn’t pay well. Target , Walmart and any other fast food or retail business don’t require skill. Because there is no business interested in coming to Maine. It’s not just the taxes. Any kid with ambition runs at least as far as Portland if not all the way out of the state.. An aging, not particularly technologically savy population, poor climate. On top of the tax concerns, why would they bother to come here? Maine’s people make up less then 1/300 of our country’s population. They seem to be doing fine without us. HOW DO WE CHANGE THINGS?
TERM LIMITS!!!!
That would be a start anyway.
Term limits would be a great idea and a good start. So would replacing some of our import tariffs and putting some of our manufacturing base back to work. We used to make the finest shoes available, now they are made in China. We used to make the finest textiles, now they are made in China. We need to put Maine back to work if we are to have any hope of surviving as a state. Plain and simple. And the best way to put Maine back to work is to insist that the products being sold in stores is made in Maine as much as possible. A pipe dream? Probably. I do not have any other ideas, do you?
A friend of mine has been pushing tariffs for a long time. Funny thing is I never really saw the potential and value. What changed my mind? I’m afraid to admit that Mitt Romney actually said something that I’d never thought of. China does a lot more business with us then we do with them. We may have more leverage then we are being led to believe.
Mitt is full of it! We have a $350 billion trade DEFECIT with China, not a surplus.
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That’s not the point. What he was saying is they buy a lot more stuff from us then we do from them. If we shut the gates it would hurt them as well.
Nope. If they bought more from us than we do from them, we would have a trade SURPLUS, not a $350 billion defecit.
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ya know what? I really don’t know what to think of this. They tax our products at a higher rate them we do. There has to be something there. And how exactly are we sending them more then they do us? The problem with tariffs is that they would just increase the cost of goods. . Retail and restaurants are about the only jobs left in the country. Until that changes not many people can afford to buy everything American. And yes it is more expensive. People buy more then clothing. Everyday personals american made ain’t cheap. Lotions, and soaps are just one example but it runs the gambit from the moment we wake up to the moment we go to bed. We use some form of product continuously. Is scotch tape american Made? It’s a million little things we don’t think about. Shoe laces, shoe polish, socks, underwear, the list is endless. We do not mass produce, that’s what cuts costs.
Tariffs level the playing field for American workers and AMERICAN SMALL BUSINESSES, the economic engines of this coumtry. It is big corporate America and the top 1% of the wealthiest Americans who make out on “free” trade, the rest of us have payed right through the nose.
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As I said, I’m not sure about the tarrif. When you can figure a way to see that ditch diggers make 15. 00 an hour then you can solve the problem. Then they can afford the 5 dollar loaf of bread that economy would create.
It’s the politicians themselves that are part of the one percent. In just the last few days the worth of our politicians was released. Corporate America has no power if those same politicians didn’t allow them to have it. Both parties play the constituency’s against each other when most people have a lot more in common then they do differences. As long as people chose to allow career politicians to make money through investments (they are allowed to legally) which they control, then why do you think any of them care what happens. It’s all about the next election cycle. The government is who you should spend more time spouting off about.
Be angry
Just make sense please. hold those truly accountable, accountable. Not just people benefiting from laws that most of us would take advantage of too if we were in that position. Yes, yes, I know, because we’re not in that position we would all do the right thing.
No, we buy more from them, that’s why we owe them money…….
I didn’t think the idea that we sent them more made any sense. The US census NON partisan enough for you? As I suspected . It’s not even close. They outsell us at almost four to one.http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html
Right, we buy 4 times as much Chinese crap as they buy American, hence the $350 billion trade deficit, in their favor.
So now you understand? China sends much more to the United States then The US sends to China. Products, China ships more products. That’s why we owe them. I can pull up your post saying just the opposite if you like.
Demand for a business’ products or services drives the economy, not tax breaks. You want job creation? Increase demand. How, when private demand is lacking? Government spending. This country has enormous infrastructure needs, construction workers with no work, borrowing cost near zero, and income tax rates at the lowest rates in decades. This is not rocket science, folks.
Want to increase demand? Try buying American instead of that cheap Chinese crap. We could turn our economy around tomorrow with a little patriotism at the cash register. Or we could keep buying the foreign junk and playing into the hands of the top 1% and the politicians, the only ones getting richer from “free” trade. Our trade deficit with China alone stands at $350 billion, or 350,000 million this year alone. How long does anyone think we can continue to send our jobs and our money to China before both are gone for good?
I totally agree, but I’m not sure we could find any clothing to wear and this time of year it’s kinda cold. Though I do own many Carhartt and Bean products I’ve found many of the Bean products are not made in the USA. So much of the Chinese stuff is so cheap, it doesn’t pay to buy it, and though it is cheaper most products last half as long as they should. I have a Carhartt jacket that is over 20 years old, I wear it every day in the winter and never feel the cold through it. I have a couple pair of lined Carhartt pants that I take off only long enough to be washed. I think a lot can be said for staying out of big box stores as well and support local business instead of Wal-Mart and the likes.
allusaclothing.com, they are competitive with L.L. Bean and they are union made right here in America, guaranteed. There are many websites dedicated to buying American. It is fairly easy if people could be bothered to lift a finger to help themselves. Most will not though. None of what the top 1% and their “public servants” have done to the American worker and American small businesses would have been possible without a lot of help from us and our cheap bone. I know a couple of millionaires that I have explained how important that it is to buy American to, even if it is a few dollars more, which they could easily afford. I still drive by ChinaMart and see their cars there! lol. You can explain to them until you are blue in the face about buying American and putting America back to work, and they will still say “screw that, I can buy it at WalMart for half that”. You can’t fix stupid, or cheap.
Amen to that. Thanks for the link!
YOU, “explain things” to millionaires do ya??
I won’t bother to respond to anymore of your comments. I can only assume that someday the issues that you don’t have to deal with now will help you wake up. Until then, once again, YOUTH IS WASTED ON THE YOUNG. If your not young then imagine how your being perceived before you hit send on your posts.
Things are not nearly as black and white as you seem to believe. They rarely are.
I’ll tell you one more time. You want changes at Walmart???? Then you should spend more time focusing on the big picture instead of sounding like an entitled whiny kid. THE GOVERNMENT controls in one form another what Walmart does. Our career politicians and the corruption in government is who you should pay more attention to. BOTH SIDES. ALL OF THEM.
Walmart does carry American products.
Precious few. Mostly cheap Chinese crap made in sweat shops with no environmental laws, worker safety laws, or minimum age requirement. Then brought back into the good old U.S.A., duty free, thanks to the dim wits in Washington.
Show me were I can Buy my daily goods all made in America??? What?? They cost twice as much??? Therein lies your problem bubba. Great for those that can afford to pay more but i’ll be darned if i’ll allow you or anyone to belittle someone because they can’t afford to. Which in turn means it’s not their first priority. Quite a conundrum aye?
Idealism is a good thing, as long as it’s tempered with reality.
We could start over. Close the borders. Pay the ditch digger 20 bucks an hour and charge 5 dollars a roll for toilet paper. It could work. Unfortunately, we’re not the only country in the world. So if you can explain practically how we make the kind of change your suggesting, i’m all for it. Again, Practically, in other words something that could actually occur.
It does not cost twice as much to buy American. But the top 1% and big corporate America appreciate you spreading half truths around to increase their profits derived from moving their factories to China. I am by no stretch of the imagination wealthy, but if I can not find it made in America, I leave it on the shelf to rot. Our trade deficit with China in 1985 was $6 million. This year it is expected to top $350 billion, or 350,000 million. I tried to figure the percentage of increase, but my Abacus caught on fire. Feel free to ignore the disgusting trade imbalance and shop at ChinaMart all you like. I intend to do absolutely nothing to help make that one thin dime worse.
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Uh yea!! Sorry Tiger. people buy more then clothing. Look around mom and dad’s house then think about how many of those items are actually produced in the USA the replace EVER ITEM. You tell me there is no cost differential.
I’m not defending anyone. I’m suggesting that your fixated on a far left idea that Walmart is the ONLY problem in our country. Do you honestly believe that to be true???? Who allows them to trade????? THE GOVERNMENT!!! Living at home and being so cool as to shop at Target Because you think they’re any different isn’t the answer. You’ll learn that when you start paying for your own underwear.
Okay junior. Point for point. I am a 52 year old grandfather, not a kid living in my parent’s basement, but nice try. I am a semi retired chief engineer in the U.S. Merchant Marines and probably pay more in taxes than you make period. I now own my own logging business and I am doing quite well considering the economy. It does cost a little more to buy American, but not double like you are implying. ChinaMart is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to spreading the Chinese plague on this country, but they are the largest under employer in the U.S. and I like to hold them up as an example to no one. I do not shop anywhere that hawks cheap Chinese crap, period. The government is guilty of complacency towards the working men and women of America as well as American small businesses, on both sides of the aisle. I am defending someone, the working men and women of America who have watched their standard of living slide right into the toilet in the last 20 years thanks to ridiculous trade agreements signed in the middle of the night and then paraded as “jobs” bills. Yes, jobs in China, not America. We have but one defense and that is at the cash register. We have control over little else as individuals. Spare me the lib and conservative thing too. They are both guilty of ruining this country. We have gone from a $6 million dollar deficit with communist China in 1985 when Reagan was in office to a projected deficit of $350 billion this year alone. We simply can not continue to send our jobs and our money to China, and then wonder where all of our jobs and money have gone. It makes us all look like rubes. You shop where you like. I’ll buy American, or I won’t buy.
Where do I buy my American made oil and gasoline? Oh yeah, it’s not green, so our President makes me buy my oil & gas from the Middle East. Then they can make more money to buy nukes and pay the people’s families who blow themselves up while in turn blowing up our soldiers over there. This makes perfect sense!!
Government spending. What a novel idea? That works EVERY TIME. Obama called Bush’s deficit unpatriotic when it was a fraction of what it is now. 15 trillion in debt and growing every day. Government spending. Yes, that is the answer. We need more of it and soon!
Look, i’m fine with what your saying but we now borrow some part of every dollar we spend. GOVERNMENT PAYING FOR WORK IS NOT A LONG TERM SOLUTION. Take care of the infirm, the mentally ill, the homeless. But someone has got to get a grip. We send aid to half the frackin countries in the world. We send CHINA AID.!!! Please find me anyone that thinks this makes any sense.When you get these scum in Washington to deal with all of that nonsense then we can talk about what we can and can’t do for our own people.
Why in the world should we be looking to borrow more????? Because the money isn’t real?? The well will never run dry????? At some point there will be consequences felt by all of those that think we should keep spending more government money. Then they’ll understand. Now, not so much.
Another thing. A moratorium on NEW government projects. How about we perfect what we have now??
Is it a cult???? “OOOHHH Government spending”
TERM LIMITS!! Know it, live it.
So the abuse is so obvious, we can’t see it? No people don’t see it because the the vast majority of people that are no welfare go queitly about there lives. Trying to live the life they have and working hard.
If you need to be on welfare you don’t need to hide. That safely net is there for you but it is supposed to be temporary not permanent. It is those that should not be on welfare that we are talking about. Abuse is obvious and everywhere. The fact people choose not to see it now thats a problem.
If you are on welfare you do need to hide. If we had a $10 minimum wage, you would be amazed at how many would chose work. This would cost businesses more in payroll but consumers would have money to spend where they don’t now. The path to national prosperity has to begin with higher wages. The stagnation of 40 years has destroyed much of what made us great. Now we have a gilded age. Some are drawn to the spectacle of the bling at the top and fail to notice that the average household is in trouble.
Further, welfare spending is so small here in the US it is really not the issue at all. Corporate welfare costs more and produces none of the benefits to the American household, just to the boardroom.
Eliminate the taxes and the battle goes away…
Lets see, the State gets 64% of every MaineCafre dollar spent reimbursed from the Federal Government. On top of that, Maine charges a “Service Provider tax” which basically gives the State five cents on every dollar paid out to agencys on most programs, this also passed on to the Feds. When the politicans complain about the Mainecare budget, they include the Federal match and sales tax, which is a distortion. For every dollar the State cuts, it loses about 70 cents. Doesn’t make sense to me unless your agenda is to eliminate Medicare at a national level, but that is not the job of Maine’s elected officials.
the BETR tax creates capital investment and is used by many businesses, large and small. It would devastate the economy to eliminate that. however, the welfare tax dollars given to the Harness Racing Industry for operating costs should be eliminated. Why do taxpayers have to subsidize someones hobby? This is an IRS definition, if you do not make enough revenues to cover expenses and have continual losses, it is considered a hobby and not a business. There are a lot of businesses in Maine that could use a subsidy to survive, how can we give one industry an advantage like this?
As noted above, Chris Hall is vice president of the Greater Portland Chamber of Commerce. Part of that job is being a cheerleader to attract business.
Now, before you and a bunch of Leftists all get misinformed and start crowing about the business tax climate here in Maine, you really ought to read the rest of the Ernst and Young story here:
http://www.mainefreedomforum.com/maines-high-tax-burden-on-businesses/
According to their more recent report, ‘Total State and Local Business Taxes’, Maine has the FIFTH highest business taxes in the country. They further report that, if you subtract the severance taxes on natural resources by Alaska, North Dakota and Wyoming, “Maine ranks as the 2nd highest state and local tax burden on businesses in the country.”
Democrats in the Legislature ought to really get their facts in order before they try to create a smoke screen.
I am all for national Healthcare. Heck, i’m for giving every homeless person a house. HOW IN THE WORLD ARE WE GOING TO PAY FOR THESE THINGS??
Do we understand that we can increase taxes all we want but we will never catch up with the ever increasing demand for government funding? Social Security, a good thing. Medicare/medicaid, a good thing. No one should go without, ever. And many other good programs but if the only thing we will allow to be produced in this country is pretentious, useless tripe then we are doomed. We can’t all “follow our hearts” towards a career in theater, or art history, or selling their crafts. We can’t all live at home until we’re 30 in order to “figure out who you are”. Less useless community college, more push towards trade schools.
I get it, painting, art, it feels good to express ourselves with something visual, or musical, or whatever. Imagine if you made things that SERVED A ‘PURPOSE.
All i’m saying is enough. enough of the brazenly politically motivated moves. And once again. It ain’t just this lady. The right and the left have done a very effective job of distracting from the fact that none of them seem to be suffering through the CRISIS that they LOVE to talk about. In all reality why should any of them give in on anything. It doesn’t affect them.
By the way i’d like to add to that list, Employees of Foxnews, MSNBC and the Networks. It’s all political to them . Show a piece on someone to get your political view across. make accusations that their viewers don’t bother to check. The media kinda sorta leads the whole thing. It’s all theater to them.
And not a bit of information as to what “business tax breaks” anyone is talking about. Just more liberal, OWS style sloganeering instead of discussion.
The real solution is to STOP SPENDING!!! Put a end to all welfare programs of all types. Once people have to do for there supper things will change FAST. Amazing what a motivator hunger is. Then we could fire about 60 percent of the employees of the state of Maine.
You are quite the economics genius Roger. Stopping government spending is the way to depression and worse. The amount we spend on social programs here is laughably small unless you count the corporate welfare. You prefer to starve your neighbors than make companies earn their money. The downsizing of state governments is one of the reasons the national economy is still lagging. Never in the history of the world has an economy cut its way to prosperity. Never. The only way to get the economy running strong is by spending more when things are slow and paying down debt when they are good. That has always worked and the only reason we don’t still do that is because the fools in the GOP have a 24/7 “news” source that makes people stupid.
Thinking like yours is going to be the death of this country. Nothing disproved Keynes, in spite of millions of dollars spent trying to program us to believe otherwise.
The strongest economy in the hemisphere is Brazil. They were struggling along and then started investing in their country. They expanded social programs, increased the minimum wage, increased education funding and invested in infrastructure. Now they are enjoying the highest upward mobility in the world. The just surpassed the UK in the size of their economy.
Instead of destruction and wage stagnation, the way to a boom is by investing in the people, not the wealthy corporations. Anti-government rhetoric, like yours, is a big part what keeps us from being the America we can be. If we increased minimum wage to $10 our economy would soar.
No more welfare..
Make the corporations give it up first. Don’t worry, they won’t starve without it.
Shill posters can “poison” debate and make people unsure about who or what they can trust.
There are reliable ways to spot fakes.
“Paid posters may create a significant negative effect on online communities, since the information from paid posters is usually not trustworthy.
But a Paid Stooge or LIAR that discredits other posters, or posts an ideal hiding behind an Alias User ID just plain Sucks! Fakes are more likely to perpetuate comment threads, make inane comments rather than add to a debate, and repeat former comments with minor changes.
It’s obvious from the similarities and lengths of comments (they must be so long before you get paid) that “paying for an agenda” is alive and well on these posts!!
How many posters come to mind…..?
Come on people, you have broke Small Business’ back with high taxes and regulations here in Maine. The good paying larger companies are able to leave to greener pastures in lower taxed & regulated States and have done so. Maine has been at the bottom of every economic poll for as long as I can remember, even during the economic boom years. How much is enough welfare? When will the Liberal Democrats say “Oh, we have enough of you hardworking people’s tax money now, we don’t need any more money.” What a joke the Democrats are, you have bleed the hardworking people of Maine dry!! I will end with a quote from Margaret Thatcher, the former Prime Minister of the UK “The trouble with socialism is sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
I think you are not shooting straight with us mebiz. Exactly what regulation is it that makes it hard for small business? The heart of the problem is based in geography not regulation. Why is it that there is not an original thought in all of conservatism. It always comes back to: taxes are too high and there is too much regulation. As a business advisor in Maine, I have been well aware of the regulations regarding start-ups and continuing operations here. I have not found a single regulation that is unique to Maine all the while.
Like the professional propagandists on Fox News, you try repetition to make your fantasy into truth but it isn’t.
Cute quip by Maggie T but those brits are going to really want their socialism back after the bankers get through looting their treasury. The problem with conservatism is it ends with corporations depending on government to bail them out after they over-reach. That is true to the tune of many trillions of dollars. Face it, making goverment into an instrument of corporate welfare cost more and leaves the people hungry. Conservatives are the biggest proponents of socialism, especially for their banker constituents. The socializing of losses on Wall Street cost us trillions already and there will be more coming, since you guys refuse to accept that you are the problem.
I remember when BIW got there tax break from the city of Bath an they had to keep i believe 6,000 people working for 5 years if they did not they would half to pay back all that tax break money an the union kept an eye on it too.
No idea what needed to be censored in my response to another post but that….. is kind of annoying guys. There was nothing even remotely inflammatory. Matter a fact it was down right cordial. If you are going to allow people to comment then you need to let up. I have no issue with taking down posts in poor taste but there wasn’t even a misspelled word that could have been construed as offensive.