AUGUSTA, Maine — Without debate, the Maine House on Wednesday approved a bill that would provide public funding to study the feasibility of an east-west highway.
The Maine Senate already approved the bill last week in a party-line vote, but it still requires additional votes in the Senate because of a minor last-minute amendment — one that could help ensure final bipartisan passage.
Offered by Rep. Richard Cebra, R-Naples, the House chairman of the Transportation Committee, the amendment stipulates that once final authorization is given to construct a highway, the developer would reimburse the Department of Transportation for the estimated $300,000 study.
“This allows the state to still spend the money because it’s vitally important that the state is behind the steering wheel on this project,” Cebra said Wednesday after the vote. “So, we get to keep control of the study now and if and when the project occurs, the developer pays the state back. That’s a good compromise.”
The amendment is likely to alleviate any fears of Democrats in the House and Senate.
During the debate before last week’s 19-15 vote in the Senate, Democrats said they were not opposed to the concept of a new study. But they didn’t want to commit public funds for what would be a privately financed project.
Republicans countered that private investors already are lined up to fund this project, which many feel could be an economic boon for Maine, but those investors need assurance that the state is supportive before they can proceed.
Money for the “investor grade” study, to be conducted by an independent agency, would come from the Maine Department of Transportation’s highway fund.
The idea for an east-west highway that bisects Maine has been floated for decades but movement has always stalled because no one wanted to put up the money to build it.
Cebra said the idea has been studied significantly over the years but he believes this new study will settle the matter once and for all.
At a public hearing last month, Cianbro Corp. Chairman Peter Vigue, a longtime proponent of an east-west highway, said he has been actively recruiting investors and has been talking to Canadian officials as well.
Vigue predicted that the highway would be a huge asset for companies — including his own firm — that move goods from Maine and Canada to the rest of the country.
The exact route of a proposed highway to connect New Brunswick to New Hampshire or Quebec would be part of the study.
Some environmentalists testified in opposition to the bill on the basis that it would increase pollution and lead to more burning of fossil fuels. Representatives of Maine’s railway transportation system also opposed the bill.
Sounds to me like it’s a good deal, that just got better!
Paying to $.3 mil. just to see the “the developer’s” plan is a good deal, to you ?
It is like being asked to pay admission to a snake oil medicine show.
build,baby,build!!!!!!!
I hope you have plenty of Tax Dollars Ready to pay for the Plowing, Fire Rescue and Police for this —–PRIVATE Rd!
Tax money won’t fund services or maintenance of any private highway any more than they do now with the turnpike…their costs are entirely funded by tolls collected. MTA contracts with the State, for example, for police services from MSP but pays the State for them.
correct.
It is still a service requiring an investment in vehicles, manpower and energy, of which State Resources will be in the make up of the Tolls to go to the Profit Motive, at the “”expense”” of the Public!
Rest assured that they will contract no more than at or near the cost of the service , and with the correct amount of anticipated corruption ,likely below!
Why should the State be engaged in the support of private profit ?
Rest Assured this is another,
Privatise Profits, Socialise Losses Scheme!
The MTA does not have stockholders who want a good return on their investment. If you like the current price at the pump, you’ll love the tolls on this road….which will also be speculator driven.
This is not a democrat unfunded program like mainecare. this will be sustainable unlike any of the past programs.
silly statement.
This will pee off the libs even more.
Good job.
No, it was a liberal’s idea to have the pay back – its call fiscal responsibility – and…., despite some claims…., both parties show irresponsibilities, but that’s another debate that no one wants to have. Most just want to stir the public discussion into slurs and innuendoes – without an intelligent digestion of facts, thoughts, and solutions.
Maine and America is digressing into a behavior we expect the Middle-east and other 3rd world countries, warring political rule.
PS. Nopark4me either
Well Charlie, I know EXACTLY why the state was asked to fund this study.
It’s because if the private sector funded the study, you liberal (and I use this term lightly) “thinkers” would consider the study to be biased.
At least if it is proven to be feasable, then the powers that be in place at the time will have THEIR OWN study to look at.
As for the park issue, during your tenure in Augusta, you were responsible for at least some of the decisions that have led to the depopulation of this area which has allowed these enviroterrorists to further their preservationist strategy.
Ah, as Ronald Reagan would say, “they you go again.” Unsubstantiated innuendoes, void of specifics, broad and general to infer a negative connotation.
I was the one who proposed an East-West highway in the 1980’s which Governor McKernan and the Republicans opposed. I would not have a problem with any study, thought I would expect it to be able to withstand public and outside evaluation supporting its findings.
I’d also note, I never got the endorsement of the Natural Resource Council because I didn’t vote with them enough, but I am content with representing the broad cross-section of interests the people I represented had on a lot of issues. I always thought both sides did not like not having me in “their” pocket on environmental issues.
Before I left legislative service I tied the GNP hydro system to the operation of the paper mills, which was unattached four years after I was out of office, and today — a shell of manufacturing mostly because of fifty years of not improving or investing in its operations, the money made in Maine was used to build mills that then competed with us. Yet our rivers, lakes, streams, and groundwater are being privately, and for profit, utilized with minimal public benefit by non-Maine, non-American, foreign corporate entity. The hydro rights were granted to the Northern Development Corporation, a Maine company, to create an economy, employment and development for the State of Maine and her people more than a century ago.
But, let me also say, Maine will never go back to the early 1900’s, nor the 1950’s or 60’s. Maine forest land is changing in the blink of an eye. The large landowners like GNP are gone. I fear the changes coming from both ends of spectrum. I dislike need of a park, I don’t want 100,000 developed “lots” for people from away to “own” a little of Maine. I want Maine to protect its resources and her people. I think you do too.
Is it “enviroterrist” to want to preserve habitat for wildlife? Just asking what you mean by that term.
We humans need habitat, too, not just dead clearcuts with nothing alive in them.
“This will pee off the libs even more. Good job.”
Is that best argument for spending tax payer’s money on this road to nowhere in Maine ?
No, just a nice sweet icing on the cake.
Your priorities are showing.
Hey, can we look at the issue instead of denigrating others? I’m not a “liberal” or “lib” but I don’t like this constant ridiculing of people who aren’t just exactly like you that you do.
Now I think it’s a bad idea, as do many people, and I think we should have a Referendum of everyone within 100 miles either side of this proposed private road, after we’ve got all the facts. Let the people decide.
It is a dog and pony show.
If a private project is to cost $2 billion, why trust developers that needs $300,000 to develop
the project ?
Can you say corporate welfare ?
Believe me Cianbro does not “need” $300,000 of the state’s
money. It is all about seeing if the state is committed to and will be supportive
of the project. Peter Vigue is a very smart businessman and if he feels it is a
worthwhile project, I would guess that he already has his ducks in a row. My
only problem with Vigue is that he did not run for Governor last time, he is definitely
the type of talent we need in the Blaine House.
So you agree , it is just about corporate welfare.
Why not cut, cut, cut , here and now, too ?
How is this so different to the cut, cut, chop, cut, conservatives in Augusta ?
If ” Peter Vigue is a very smart businessman and if he feels it is a
worthwhile project, I would guess that he already has his ducks in a row.”
… then see, you are saying it has already been done, must likely, so it really is money for nothing, and just more corporate welfare, AND you are admitting that I’m right about it just being a dog and pony show, as I have already suggested, right ?
“It is all about seeing if the state is committed to and will supportive of the project.”
Like they have with a couple of dumps ?
Again, just more corporate welfare.
Why does the expression of that support have to cost the tax payers $300,000 ?
But now that the real corporate business deal is on table, thank you,
why not pass a resolution in support of Cinbro doing their own study,
Then, when they do the study ( part of their their corporate business plan, BTW)
have the State pass a resolution in support of it, if you are right ?
As it now, if by your own admission… the “ducks are in row” anyway…
it is just more corporate welfare, a waste of tax payer’s money and
it smells like lobster bait.
At least it will provide much needed jobs for our state versus propping up the ones that accept (demand) social welfare and we the taxpayer get nothing in return. You people cry that there are no jobs and the state needs to do something about it. When the state decides to invest $300,000 in attempting to provide the jobs that we need, you cry foul. I suppose if it was $300,000 being spent on a methadone clinic or one, yes one unit in one of MSHA low income housing projects that would be just fine with you.
I am not insinuating that the deal is done, I am pointing out the fact that Vigue would not be wasting his time and energy on this if it was not a viable project. You cannot stand that this Legislature and Governor are trying to invest a little money to show support for a business plan that will provide many construction jobs building the project and long term jobs maintaining it once it is built. As long as the state is handing money to the “less fortunate” everything is just great. Stop and think, maybe some of those people that have spent years collecting can obtain a job through this project and start contributing as so many claim they want to. I guess we will see how many of those folks line up for an application or should I say how many will not be lining up.
You are wasting your breath ! This is the same people that think the state should pay for a feasibility study for Quimby ! It kills them to know a East – West highway will stop some of the 3.2 million acres that Quimby/ Restore wants !
And make jobs for the state !!
But of course that would not be considered any type of welfare now would it?
The Liberals are angry because their park is heading on a
” road to nowhere” . While this highway is closer to starting to seeing shovels and other construction start breaking ground for this highway to being built. It must make the Liberals and the Environmentalists go nuts to see that progress for the better is starting to be made.
What kills me is why the road is needed? Will it allow you to go from St. John, NB to Toronto quicker? Sure. Can you give me an example of which American products would be hauled on said road? Without Roxanne’s park, what kind of tourists would use it?
I think it is a make work project designed to benefit a well connected construction company. I’d rather see a highway built from Kittery to Bangor with no exits to get me home quicker. I bet that hwy would be of more use to Mainers than one from the Canadian border to the other Canadian border.
I agree we should end all welfare. If you do not EARN it you do not get it.
Cianbro won’t get the $300,000. A consulting firm will be hired to do the study. Since it’s being commissioned by the state it will be put out for bids. Cianbro does construction not consulting.
Only if the private company walks away from it. The amended bill requires the money to be paid back if the project is built. I’m not happy with it as I believe the private company should foot the bill up front, but this is better than nothing since we tax payers “might” get our money back in the end.
”
Only if the private company walks away from it. ”
Huh ?
That sure trumps any “feasibility study”, no matter what it might say, I’d have to guess.
As it is written, if the “developers” do walk away, they will do so with $300, 000 of tax
payer’s money, won’t they ?
This whole project makes no sense except to construction companies and Canadians.
Not; if we build it they will come, rather if the developers can’t come up with cost of
to develop it, then why should it come to be ?
Again, how can there be toll on anything except a limited access highway ?
Will the customers that “need” it, even stop in Maine for fuel, between the
two border crossing choke points ?
The benefits are all pie in the sky, except for the builder and Canadian truckers.
If this a good business, let private business, “the developers”, pay for it.
It is corporate welfare.
Justify it as such, or admit it is, at best a big government boondoggle if we give away $300,000 and the ” developers” do walk away.
It is a road to nowhere in Maine, and just bad business if State of Maine tax payers
have to pay anything for it.
What part of “I’m not happy with it as I believe the private company should foot the bill up front” did you fail to read?
This is part that I DID read and you are not supporting, now:
” but this is better than nothing since we tax payers “might” get our money back in the end.”
Paying $.3 mil. is not better than paying nothing to see the “developer’s” business plan, any way you spin it.
I like that numeration.3 million kinda reminds me of the fiasco at msha .32 million for a one bed room apt .I like the way you spin .
Spin is what this all about.
A private company wants the State’s power to seize private property for a road to nowhere in Maine, and spin it so it looks like a State project.
Where in any of this does it say they’re going to seize private property??? If you want to put on your conspiracy hat be my guest, but at least look at facts before you spout nonsense.
Explain how to build a road clear across the State without doing so, please.
Feel free to use the term eminent domain.
It is interchangeable with “seize”.
It would probably be alright if the state were to “seize” land to build another methadone clinic or some other social welfare instrument.
Decide that for yourself, I don’t get your point, here.
That would be comparable to a bunch of residents that want the taxpayers to pay for destructive lifestyles. Wouldn’t that be a seizure of my tax dollars? Should we now consider $10,000 as .01 million?
That is better than most conservatives do math,
and if it is right, use whatever notation you like. |It’s a free country still. .
Really what happens if the route was to change or modified say it was to go through parts of Central Maine and into New Hampshire, or make connector roads to other parts of Maine to it. We don’t know what the final study will be till they get done so stop calling a road to nowhere either way changed or unchanged this road is needed. They need to build other East-West roads as well going through Central Maine into New Hampshire to help get those areas going as well. Building transportation projects spur economic growth it creates hundreds to thousands of jobs and it expands the tax base. Their is no negatives to this road it will cut travel time down, cut down on costs to ship goods, save large amounts of fuel, it will save on the wear and abuse that these rural highways take from the large tractor trailer trucks. Just about everyone in Maine says we need these East-West Highways to get Maine going. We need to start building these roads and build them now. Everyone who is opposing this needs to stop feet dragging and holding up the process which they have done for years.
So why get State any money before we even know they want to build this pig in a poke ?
Wait a minute. You start by saying nobody knows where it will go for sure, but in another breath you say it will cut down on travel time and help shippers. Which travellers? Which shippers? An E-W hwy from Calais to Jackman will benefit Plum Creek and a few other large land owners. One from Machias to So far as the travelling public, I’m not sure which group of Mainers is complaining of traffic through Greenville so that we need a new road through there. One from Bangor to Berlin, NH will help…. might only help the few leaf peepers who use it. If it becomes well used, NH will slap a toll on it.
I said the study could make changes to the route it could put the route further south. It could add connector routes to Aroostook County, to Central Maine etc. The fact is this road is going to be built with Private Funds, if it was with Taxpayer Money and Democrats were behind it. The Liberals, Welfare Bums and Enviros would be jumping up and down wanting it done. But someone else is proposing it they are doing everything they can to find fault with it.
Obama would like to thank you for supporting his economic policy of infrastructure rebuilding,
However, the Republicans in DC have shot it down.
Who says I suport Obama I don’t the guy is a joke and a fraud. His stimulus program that was supposed to be for roads and bridges what a farce LOL. It was to cover up massive spending problems from State Governments and to expand Welfare. The only way we will get our roads built is if we have private sector do these projects like Cianbro is proposing with this highway.
With the R’s in power, this was going to pass one way or the other. Would you have preferred them to have passed the original bill? I wouldn’t. When the world hands you a pile of lemons you can cry about it or try and make something out of it like lemonade.
It wasn’t the best solution to the situation, which would have been make the private company pay for it, PERIOD, but it’s better than the initial proposed solution–free money, no strings attached. The strings they attached aren’t that great, but better than no strings.
Really well if your against corporate welfare we should have Augusta stop giving Wind Power subsidies to Angus King and Friends . Also other subsidies that go to Liberal groups to buy land so to stop people from using taking it off the tax rolls while draining taxpayer resources in the long run.
There is the problem with conservatives.
Their priorities.
No argument from this quarter. I don’t think wind should be subsidized, nor solar, nor any business which does not benefit and serve ALL the people. Oil companies drill for oil on our land for ridiculously inexpensive leases, then they turn around and sell this crude on the world market. Please tell me how that benefits the true owners of this “Federal” land?
About parks, I believe ALL entities should be made to pay taxes on land within any municipality, district, or township. This includes churches, schools, and public buildings. As an alternative I would accept the State and county removing these properties from the township, municipality or District valuation.
We should not be spending tax money money to fund an infrastructure development that’s part of Cianbro’s growth plan. Let them build it. The only reason they’re pulling Maine into it is that the need the backing of the State to take people’s land by eminent domain.
Pass a resolution of support that does not cost $.3 mil, then.
Job done.
What is the difference Roxanne Quimby wanted hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars be used on a study for her stupid park . A park that was strongly opposed by the majority of folks in the 2nd district. Spending $300,000 on study on future infrastructure upgrades is worth the money. It will create hundreds of jobs and start the process of growing the 2nd Districts economy. A park only supported by a few radical left wingers will do absolutely nothing. I say its time for Peter Vigue to implement his vision to grow Maine. He has been vocal about upgrading our infrastructure, from building roads, to expanding high speed fiber optic internet, been very vocal about the lack of investment from Fairpoint. The Democrats are strongly opposed because they know if this highway is built things will change for the better for the rest of Maine.
Trade ya even.
Otherwise no compromise.
It is politics some wanted, now live with it, you less big government hypocrites.
lol
{Peter Vigue to implement his vision to grow Maine}
Who elected Peter Vigue?
People today seem to automatically genuflect to anyone with money.
That is all part of the plan.
Who elected Useless Welfare Bums , Radical Environmentalists and Roxanne Quimby. I don’t ever recall seeing them on the ballot. I think working Mainers we elected Paul LePage and Republicans for a reason to clean up the mess the Out of touch Democrats put Maine in. We want Maine to go foward in a different direction. The Governor and Maine Dot will be the ones giving the final ok to this road just like any construction project. Nothing you Libs can do about it if they feel its a emergency need it will be put as one. So I see shovels and construction equipment start digging very soon and that is music to all our ears. So start forking over some more tax money to build this road LOL. They can take it out of the Welfare Fund or the Money Liberals were giving to Enviros for Land Buys.
DC, not to rain on your parade but Fairpoint has publicly stated, here the BDN, that they have nothing to do with the 3 Ring Binder Project that Vigue so loudly calls for. That FP took part of the $3 million dollar grant, along with Maine Fibre and ConnectMaine, for it’s instillation and connecting is somehow being conveinently ‘forgotten’. Now if $3 million can be ‘forgotten’, how easily is $ 300k gonna’ be ‘remembered’ ? It does not take Columbo to see where this is going. And people wonder why there is such a stink about ethics in government and the need for accountability and transparency. This road study is gonna’ prove more than a few of these points for those folks who just keep asking question’s. And you can bet dollars to donuts that, given the money involved, the Fed’s are gonna be watching as well. With the Bald Mountain mess going on right now, you can be pretty well assured that the US Attorney is keeping an eye on this one for corruption, contract rigging and abuse of office. Vigue or any of his crony’s even think of trying to be cute in this process and someone’s gonna be headed south to Otisville for a ‘vacation’, courtesy of Judge Woodcock.
If the road is so needed, why not use toll money to build it? If it will be so good for commerce, why not let the people who use it pay the freight? Is this not the Tea Party philosophy, let those who use it pay?
How does a road from one Canadian border to another Canadian border help Maine?
How does it help the people whose homes and property they’ll have to take to build this private road that will only allow certain traffic on it and will cost about $100-$200 to drive across?
Not likely many of us would use it, and it’s not meant for us. Just like the windmills that produce a bit of electricity – that’s not for us, either. It all goes onto the New England grid for the cities.
I say put it out to a Referendum by the people of Maine. Democracy.
This the FIRST piece of legislation from the Lepage administration that makes since!
Who will this help,when the road is built? Just the Canadians, look what happened when 95 went to Houlton, how many places did it put out of business. If you think they will stop on the way, guess again. It may look good but it will hurt in the long run.
Will they even have to stop for fuel ?
don’t think so there are no exits…..
So ?
The point is why would the Canadians care or use them.
Says who Environmentalists who are scared they may lose their power and their proposed park would officially be dead if this road goes through. Stop with the scare tactics and false information. This road will have exits just like any Turnpike or Interstate would. It will have gas stations, and rest areas an for truckers as well. The state feels this highway is necessary the study wouldn’t have passed if they felt Maine wouldn’t benefit from this road. The roads which are small rural roads currently would be widened to handle the amount of traffic and the type of speeds (55 t0 75 mph) that a Turnpike Styled Highway would have.
Two exits 4 lanes $100-$200 each way is what has been officially reported so far. You can call the DOT yourself and find out what configuration they are basing the “feasibility on”..No rest areas ..Nothing normal about any part of this
.It’s like a tunnel to serve Canadian truck traffic.
It will be alimited access highway.
In some places the existing roads are as narrow as 24 feet with houses and tiny businesses right up next to the road The road is premised on using the xisting right of way for 2 west and 9 east for most of the length..How do you figure they will widen that to a 4 lane highway?
The privateowner operator will have emninent domain to take what they need for the road and the oil pipeline and other “corridors” they plan to run to connect Canada to otself through Maine.
Call DOT. Call your own sentaor and rep and have them answer any questions for you.
I am not calling anyone I will wait to see what the study says. I am not going to trust spin from some Moonbats and Far Left Wing Liberals who have been imposing their radical views on us the last 50 years. You folks are angry you stupid pathetic park is going nowhere so now that something is going to be built that will benefit everyone your now trying to put a stop to it. Face it this road is going to be built much sooner or later the Governor and Maine DOT has the final say.
Dear Dark Cat,
I dont even know what this park is you are on about. And the people not DOT or even the Governor will have the final say.
I am curious though, you have faith that the toll way over the existing routes of 2 and 9 will definitely be good for Maine and for the communities those roads travel through? You don’t wonder whther there is a commitment to maintain local roads for local use? You are not concerned that this might amount to eradicating the existing setlements along the way? You don”t need or want to know the details?
Dream on.
Go back to hugging trees and protecting your useless bugs and birds that nobody gives 2 cents about. The Governor , The Legislature, Peter Vigue and the Maine Working Person is taking our state back from these idiots who have put this state at the bottom of the barrel. It is time we start rebuilding our state and accelerating job growth even idiots like John Martin, Troy Jackson have said we need this highway and that is saying something with 2 men I can’t stand politically.
Read the comments before you use your broad brush. Both moderates, and conservatives have opposed this plan. If they want to build something, let then do it… I have no problem with that, I just don’t want to be ripped off….. AGAIN!
Build it, put a good toll on it and let the Canadians pay, because they will use this as a short cut accross… Dont like the toll, dont use it.
The State will end up owning the bad bond debt, all the downside
and the maintenance of it, just as we do with a couple of dumps.
Is the Maine Turnpike Commission the business model, here ?
If you people can’t see that this is just corporate welfare and a big fraud
then please get out of our faces about how conservatives can end welfare fraud.
I thought the State is broke. Where are they going to dig up $300,000 to pay for the study. Of course Cianbro is for it.
The state just found a windfall, Dale McCormick resigned.
This is not corporate welfare, in fact it’s very smart business. Most people who are serious about this East West Highway want to make sure the State will not pull the plug after it has been approved and that the State is supporting the project. Having this upfront should remove the political aspect after it’s been approved. Cimbro will probably be one of the companies that will truly be interested in this project. It will produce jobs, reduce freight cost and provide a quick and easy way to move goods.
”
This is not corporate welfare, in fact it’s very smart business.”
Oh.
But if so, why do the developers need tax payer money, then ?
You can’t have it two different ways at once if it really is supposed
to be a business decision.
Never mind “feasibility”, you have a credibility problem.
Is that how your oh so “very smart business” works, I must ask.
” It will produce jobs, reduce freight cost and provide a quick and easy way
to move ( Canadian ) goods.” … right though Maine.
So it is so a big government economic stimulus plan, like a bail out, then ?
But it is not, of course corporate welfare, but only because admitting THAT is not
politically correct.
“Having this upfront should remove the political aspect after it’s been approved.”
Having the developer’s oh so “very good business” plan UPFRONT,
without a $ .3 mil. cost to tax payers, if they walk,
just to see the this pig in a poke “private business plan”
is the better plan, thank you .
The developers don’t get the $300,000. A consulting firm will be hired to do the study. Since it’s being commissioned by the state it will be put out for bids. Cianbro does construction not consulting.
They don’t pay for consulting ?
This should not be hard to follow. The state wants to pay for an independent consulting firm to complete a feasibility study on the need for this road and the ability to find a route and build it. Investors who might want to fund the construction and development can read the completed study before they decide to invest in the project. Cianbro would be just one piece of the pie. They cannot afford to fund the project themselves. They need other investors to buy a stake in it. If it’s successful the investors make money as they should after the risk they took by investing. The independent consulting firm will earn the $300,000 before their expenses. Yes as a business they will also profit, but not to the tune of the entire $300,000. The investor group will reimburse the state if they build the road.
So now it a the State doing the private companies PR/sales job.
Like that makes it different.
Why can’t the investors finance this first step if it such good business ?
There are no investors yet. The study is to attract them. The state stimulates growth/jobs in many ways…this is just a new way. If we can end up with a new interstate across the state by fronting $300,000 that will be later reimbursed that’s a no lose for the state. We only lose if nothing is done. Anyone who drives enough from Calais to Bangor would love to have an interstate there.
So why should tax payers pay for this pig in a poke ?
How can you not get it? We front $300K and then get it back. A nice new highway all the way across the state for a net cost of zero dollars. Certainly not a pig in a poke. Yes you will pay to use it, and you can still take Rt. 9 if you want, but I would gladly pay a toll to drive from Bangor to Calais, non-stop at 75 mph.
The question is, how much would you “gladly pay” (per trip) and the answer is we (Maine taxpayers) have already financed two studies no this exact route. Both came back saying the project is a net loser for Maine people.
If we built it with tax dollars that might be the case. Now we have a whole different scenario.
for $100?
Will not cost $100 for 4 wheel vehicle from Bangor to Calais if 18 wheeler toll is around $100 all the way across.
Does anyone honestly believe their will be 2 exits , $100 tolls, and no rest areas or fueling stations. The Liberals and Enviros need to get real and get their heads out of the forests. This highway will be like any other Turnpike or Interstate . Trust me if they don’t have fueling stations, rest areas , exits their will be alot of people complaining.
When you can do that now for free? What’s the sense?
Your comment is foolish. You cannot drive a constant 75 Bangor to Calais.
I agree about the Calais to Bangor comment, and do you know why it has not been built in the 192 years ME has been a state? If you drive either “The Airline” (Rte 9) or US1, even in the summer, you have lots of opportunity to pass (after Bar Harbor cutoff) because the traffic is so light. Even $25 tolls each way would never pay for that road.
What the advocates are saying is “If you build it, they will come”. That sounds like pie in the sky with taxpayer dough.
Not to mention that it will put Eastport one step closer to being a major sea port for freight.
As currently proposed only two interchanges, neither near Eastport.
Where are you people finding this two interchange nonsense? If someone broke down in the middle it would be a long wait for help. Exits will be put at appropriate locations just like any other expressway.
You better read the plan (Maine.Gov website under DOT) before you make yourself look the fool. It clearly says 2 interchanges. it also speaks of tolls up to and including $100.00 a trip.
Only thing I see on MDOT site is stuff from 1999. Seriously doubt it applies now.
However, I did look at this and it does mention two interchanges. You conveniently leave out the plans for at-grade intersections at other points…it will be divided 4-lanes posted at 65 mph, but not a true interstate.
As I stated it will be like any Interstate or Turnpike the Liberals need to go find something else to complain over. Because this highway will be on the path to building. The Moonbats and Nutjobs want to continue to find ways to hold down our economy now that their beloved National Park is hit an iceberg and is headed nowhere. I expect we will see LePage and the Legislature having this move on the fast track to construction because their is huge support for it in the Legislature.
You are claiming to be conservative, and you also want the State to take my tax dollars and give them to Chinbro? Doesn’t sound very “conservative” to me.
BTW I’n not willing to pay for a park, or a feasibility study for one either.
After the machines have built the road with some human help, tell me what “jobs” will be permanent? Toll takers, of course, since money is the object of this scam, but what else?
Versus supporting young people to become farmers to produce needed food for Maine. That’s what should be happening with some of our money, since Maine is not food secure by a long shot.
We need thousands more small farmers, and the land that Vigue et al would take would be better used as farms growing food for local consumption.
More jobs for Mainers.Pretty soon if this keeps up welfare will no longer be the primary industry in Maine.
Huh, but this is corporate welfare.
It is industrial scale welfare.
You can’t have it two was at once, and not like foolish.
Sorry.
Being paid to do nothing is welfare, being paid to build highways or any other service is a job. It may be a publicly funded job but at least the taxpayers can see some benefit from the expended funds. Not so with the Maine Turnpike Authority which used funds for private parties and junkets at taxpayer expense.
A feasibility study is next to nothing.
What about an endless procession of feasibility studies till the builders get the one they want?
MTA gets ZERO tax dollars. All income is from tolls. Why do so many not know this?
So are the costs like plowing and policing it, private, too,
BESIDES this $.3mil camel’s nose in State Treasury ?
MTA has to pay the state for all police coverage of the turnpike. All turnpike plowing is done by MTA employees whose salaries are paid with you guessed it toll money. NO tax dollars support the turnpike.
So this will be it ?
ROTFLOL.
But the road was built with taxpayers’ money. Why shouldn’t we get the benefit of those tolls? Tolls are like another tax to pay for what we already paid for.
Why do so many not understand this? The turnpike was built by issuing bonds (MTA got a loan). The bonds (loan) were repaid using toll revenues. The process continues today. For big projects like the widening bonds are issued and repaid with toll revenue. Not one tax dollar has ever been spent on the turnpike.
Oh please… The State Police organization is paid “hours” for officer’s time patrolling the pike, but the Turnpike also gets ancillary services from the State at no cost to them. If this were not so, if Plowing and police patrol were not cost effective, the MTA would contract for private security, and vendor plowing.
Fees, licenses, registrations, excise, fines, penalty, permits, waste disposal charge, etc. It doesn’t matter what it is called, it’s still a tax.
At least this has a return on investment.
Conservative math !
If it is build it is supposed to be payed back, where is a return on that ?
Sounds like making a loan to a brother-in-law.
Actually the best return for business IS welfare. Landlords and food stores would go out of business in droves if not for rent subsidies and food stamps.
I hope they realize that for a company to “pay back” $300,000, then they just charge $300,000 in the first place. There is no free lunch in the business world. They understand spreadsheets and can cover a subtraction by increasing the cost in the first place?
The Canadian’s spent billions just to by pass the rail line that went through Brownsville junction.
I think we should ask the Canadian’s to put up the study money and see if they are serious before the over taxed people of Maine get ripped off again.
Best idea I’ve seen so far with one qualifyer. Have a $100k performance bond on the study dependent on the study actually being produced on time and within budget. If there’s one thing that the business community understands it’s an insurance performance bond that hangs over them for on-time and budget delivery.
we need another highway like we need more liberals
If Governor LePage or the Republican majority deem it proper you will live with it ! Regardless of any consequences !! Accept your fate……. The Great OZ & CO. will have spoken !!! We need another highway like we need more right wing fanatics !!!
It’s been 30 or 40 years to try and build a north/south highway. Give the county it’s road, then worry about the east/west one……….
Yes, let’s spend a bazillion dollars running 95 from Houlton to Ft Kt. This would save you about a 1/2 hour, because most of the time you can go 65 mph above Caribou (actually above Presque Isle.)
It’s a win-win.
Why not make it a trifecta and add a rail corridor to the pipe-line, road proposal?
Or, even better, make the new road truly user friendly and add a bike/4-wheeler/snowmobile lane?? It might be an easier sell if the name was changed from East-West Highway to the East-West Maritime Trail. :)
The recreational opportunities far outweigh any of the negatives I’ve heard so far. If developers are waiting with baited breath to invest 2B in our state they will be open to concessions; The State could negotiate a no/lower toll rate for Mainers.
There is already a rail line running from Vanceboro ( trains arriving from St. John New Brunswick via McAdam, New Brunswick) to Mattawamkeag and spurs to points south and west exiting into Canada at Jackman.
The potential this project holds is enormous.
This kind of project is just what the State of Maine needs in this neck of the woods. If the project is feasible and private investors are waiting with baited breath to invest 2B in our state, we’ll be in the driver’s seat, so to speak. I’d suggest that in addition to a road and pipeline, the project also include a rail component so that great industry would also have a place at the table. Additionally, I’d ask that a recreation corridor be included. Wouldn’t it be great to have a bike/recreation vehicle “lane”?
I think this project might be an easier sell if the name was changed from East-West Highway to the East-West Maritime Gateway Trail. We could market it as a boon for business and a boon for recreational/cultural tourism. It’s about time.
Call it what it is!
Canadas Shortcut through Maine!
Puhleeze! Pipeline? For maple syrup? Water? Not sure what needs transported by pipeline in an E-W highway. Rail? Like they are so profitable in ME that the state needs to invest in more rail lines.
I think it comes down to blind faith. The proponents don’t know who will use it, where it will go, what needs there are for it, but if it is built, something will happen. We’ve been there, done that, and all there is left are the rivers and woods. It looks like Roxanne’s park will never happen, so we have to wait for outfits like Plum Creek to come by and subdivide the state into 25 acre lots for out of staters who do appreciate the woods for what they are. Woods.
I don’t mean to sound harsh. You sound like I was when I was young. Now I guess I’m old and crotchety and believe almost no politician or study group. The road will happen when some construction outfit buys enough politicians to get its way.
I’m sorry you’re feeling old and crotchety. I may be naive, but I believe in what people can accomplish when they work together.
The people that are backing this project are visionaries and are looking to position their companies for the future. Yes its all about money, and the challenge facing us will be to ensure that the $ benefits all of us, not just the corporations, politicans and their well-connected friends.
I know a lot of people believe that the corporations/construction outfits are the evil empires, but the abuses of the past won’t stand in the transparency of the information technology age we’re living in.
I’m old too, just not crotchety (yet)
This road definitely needs to be built, but the western end needs to go near Rumford and Bethel, then to New Hampshire and Vermont where it can connect with 3 other interstates. Eventually it should go further west into NY State. Extending I-95 to Madawaska should be considered as a private toll road as well. This is not a new concept…the Indiana Toll Road (I-80 and I-90) is privately owned and so is Colorado E-470, a loop bypass of Denver.
How dumb and disappointing is that?
“Ok, we will pay for your study and if we are not successful in ramming this through, you won’t have to pay us back..But if we deliver you owe us $300,000”
Duhhhhh!!!
Everybody out!!!
I am ashamed of the lot of you.
So its ok for Liberals and Roxanne Quimby wanting to use hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars for a stupid park that most of the folks North of Augusta , All Business leaders , Sportsmen groups and most Maine Politicians are opposed to. This road is needed most of us here in the 2nd District want these East-West Highways and have been waiting for someone to build one for many decades. It has been studied to death its time to build the this roadway or any other proposed highway that has been studied to death.
You are correct in part of your post. This Idea has been studied twice before (at tax payer expense) and both times the studies showed it to be a net loser for the people of Maine. In fact, in order for a Company to generate the type of return on investment needed to attract money. the tolls will need to be much higher than most Second District Mainers can afford.
Also the connection at Coburn Gore will be a highway connecting to a cow path (look at the map)
Where do you get your figures about all the opponents of the proposed park? I know the 2nd district is not too populated, but did you really find polls to say that “, All Business leaders , Sportsmen groups and most Maine Politicians are opposed to” the park? Really? Or are you making that up?
he’s making it up as he goes along.
You haven’t been reading all the articles on here. The park is not going through due to huge opposition from everyone North of Augusta, Maine Legislature, Gov. LePage, Maine’s Congressional Leaders, Sportsmen Groups, Business Leaders and Towns where the park is located voting NO to it. Cowboy Kenny Salzar already said the study is DOA and won’t be brought back up for awhile at the earliest.
Millinocket Town Council voted no, Town of Patten voted NO in a referendum, East Millinocket voted by a large majority saying NO in referendum to it, Medway supported it then changed its support in a recent town meeting. Sportsmen’s groups , Maine Business leaders, Gov. Lepage says no, Maine Legislature voted in a bi-partisan resolution in opposition to the park, Maine’s Congressional Leaders except Chellie Pingree-Sussman have said NO. Susan Collins passed in tens of thousands of letters and emails from Mainers opposing this park. How much more No’s mean NO.
Put it to a Referendum in the 3/4 part of Maine and you’ll find that most people do NOT want this private toll road built through Maine to benefit only Vigue and his ilk.
Don’t see the connection with the proposed national park, although I don’t support that proposal, either, thinking Maine control of the Maine Woods is better than Washington, D.C. control of the Maine Woods.
Put all these huge projects out to Citizen Referendum and let Maine people decide.
The fact is Maine doesn’t have to vote for it. If the State Government feels this highway needs to be built the Governor and DOT will start the process of taking the land. The Governor and DOT has the final say in this project.
This road definitely needs to be built, but the western end needs to go near Rumford and Bethel, then to New Hampshire and Vermont where it can connect with 3 other interstates. Eventually it should go further west into NY State. Extending I-95 to Madawaska should be considered as a private toll road as well. This is not a new concept…the Indiana Toll Road (I-80 and I-90) is privately owned and so is Colorado E-470, a loop bypass of Denver.
Yes you are correct Indiana sold their piece of highway, and Colorado sold some of theirs. Getting people to pay tickets has been a logistical nightmare, and Indiana’s accident rate on I 90 has increased markedly. Both Indiana and Colorado sold existing roads. Neither of these States paid for a feasibility study on the wisdom of the purchase.
The taxpayers built these roads, and have maintained them. In my opinion this is equivalent to my neighbor selling my driveway.
These were both existing toll roads so just like our turnpike not one tax dollar was spent to build or maintain them. They are self-supporting with tolls. Accident rates have nothing to do with who owns the road.
Actually I 90 had no toll through Indiana until the 1980’s, and ALL of the IHS was financed by “taxpayers” Some States chose to finance their 20% share of costs by installing (at State expense) tolls. Some portions of the interstate highway system usurped roads already constructed by States, The Pennsylvania Turnpike, The Mass Turnpike, and the New Jersey Turnpike, as well as parts of the New York Thruway (or the Major Deagan) are examples.
Historically private roads do have a higher rate of accidents per mile driven. That was the statistic which stopped Massachusetts from selling their portion of I-90 (Thee Mass Pike) to the St. Johnsbury Trucking firm.
Here is a link to an Indiana DOT brochure about the Indiana Toll Road.
http://home.comcast.net/~bmgorte/freeway/tollrd.html
Constructed with bonds and opened as a toll road in 1956. Always a toll road and no tax dollars invested in it.
edit: link looks incomplete, but does work. Not sure why it didn’t copy complete text.
This link takes me nowhere. Drove this road in 1965… No tolls.
The link works fine…you just won’t admit you’re wrong. Try this instead.
http://www.in.gov/indot/2337.htm
Here is a direct quote from the above page.
The Indiana Toll Road was established in 1951 and constructed between 1954 and 1956
What part of private road don’t you get? Private road, huge tolls, tax payer provided all police. Profits go out of state and we give tax breaks to them It will cost twice as much as the turnpike at least to drive on it, the employees that maintain it will work for Wally World wages and the tax payer will be blued and tattooed. At least you won’t have any state employees running it who actually care if you get there alive or can afford the drive. Glad you want to double your costs.
Letr Cianbro pay for the study.
Please !
We are BROKE !
I wonder how well this truckers’, toll road will be utilized when diesel fuel is $10 a gallon?
Worldwide oil production has been flat to down for 6 years now, even in the face of record prices.* Diesel is only going to get pricier and pricier.
But go ahead Maine, build another major highway, (or, more accurately, take lots of land owners’ land and hand it over to this company so they can build it.) At least business will come back to the state railroad (bought last year) when world oil prices dictate that we replace 5.5 mpg trucks with 250 mpg equivalent piggy back service.
* http://earlywarn.blogspot.com/2012/02/why-are-gas-prices-high.html and http://earlywarn.blogspot.com/2012/03/latest-eia-fuel-breakdown.html
Selling access to Maine’s wilderness for corporate profit ? Doesn’t sound like representation to me. With all the budget cuts the legislature can come up with $300k to help a developer. WTF?
Sovereignty depends upon the consent of the governed…
The US mail uses almost every street, road and highway in the Republic so as long as the US Postal Service exists the government has a constitutionally authorized function in regard to roads.
Article I Section 8:
The Congress shall have power…To establish Post Offices and Post Roads (a post road is any road over which mail is carried)
The Constitution does not authorize Congress to spend money to benefit only a fraction of the population of the Republic. Every penny spent must benefit everyone or it is improperly spent.
This is a crock. The State doesn’t have this kind of money. If it did we wouldn’t be trying to cut everything.
I vote Republican because in the past those folks tended to be more thrifty, and they kept their noses out of my business. For a good long while, they have been transforming themselves into tax and spend busybodies. Because I am a male, and old, I have overlooked some of their social engineering, and I’ve told myself that although they seem to be spending more taxpayer money, they are not as bad as the Democrats. The State can’t fix the infrastructure which is broken, and The House wants to give public money to a private firm to build a road for Canadians? Maybe members of the Maine House should look for votes up there!
I’ve been fooling myself;
….and although it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks, I am definitely going to try to learn some before November. Got That Charlie? Got that Rick? Got that Kevin? Think carefully before casting those Senate votes. I’m not alone out here, and Chinbro’s money won’t help you at all if the long expected taxpayer revolt ignites…. I’ll be out here with my matches.
How on earth did we possibly get along with out this for the last 100 Years?