LEWISTON, Maine — A standing-room-only crowd at Bates College Tuesday was met by a man who defines today’s civil rights fight for same-sex couples and the challenges they face in terms of religious beliefs. The event was organized by Mainers United for Marriage.
“Let’s not forget what an ‘ism’ is,” Bishop Gene Robinson reminded the crowd of nearly 200 people. “An ‘ism’ is prejudice plus the power to put that prejudice into practice.”
He likened homophobia and people’s unwillingness to accept gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people to other well-known “isms” such as racism and sexism. Robinson told the crowd that instead of homophobia, it’s “heterosexism.”
Robinson, the Episcopal Church’s first openly gay bishop, was elected in 2003 to head the Diocese of New Hampshire. He spoke following a screening of “Love Free or Die,” a documentary chronicling his life from 2008-2010. It premiered at this year’s Sundance Film Festival and received rave reviews and awards.
“Like every other state in the country Maine has tens of thousands of loving same-sex couples living in our state,” Matt McTighe, campaign manager for Mainers United for Marriage, said. “Our society is made stronger when all these loving, committed couples have the ability to marry.”
McTighe said the organization is working to raise public awareness. While he expects opposition to the referendum, mostly from out-of-state organizations, he is confident that the state is better poised to pass the issue this year than any other.
Mainers will vote in November on a referendum on same-sex marriage.
“I consider this to be a civil rights issue. The opponents consider it to be a moral issue,” the Rev. Dr. Steven F. Crowson of Trinity Episcopal Church in Lewiston said. “For the people who consider it a moral issue, it’s a matter of conscience, but matters of conscience can’t override the civil rights of people.”
Robinson was greeted by rousing applause following the film. He urged supporters to reach out to what he called the “movable middle” of the state’s voting block before the upcoming election this fall.
“They’ve stopped hating us, yet they still go into the voting booth and vote against us,” Robinson said.
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Gay bishop addresses Bates crowd on same-sex marriage
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He’s a very brave man. I’m thankful for his work.
Wheeeeee, lehts pray!
“Our society is made stronger when all these loving, committed couples have the ability to marry.” Exactly. Life will go on and marriage equality won’t be the downfall of society. In 10 years, we would all be asking ourselves why this was ever an issue in the first place.
I’m glad we have such a positive role model helping us fight for marriage equality. With national hate groups, like NOM, fighting against us, we need respected individuals that can accurately dispel any falsehoods and propaganda they try to spread. All Americans deserve the right to marry.
Thank you Bishop Robinson. I look forward to the day when this headline might read: Bishop addresses Bates Crowd on Same Sex Marriage, meaning that your sexuality will be secondary to the fact that you have attained an exalted position in your church. Unfortunately, you will be remembered not for your excellent work in ministering to your congregations, but for your sexuality. We are all humans first and foremost and that is the important lesson.
thanks
Your judgement will be greater O’ false prophet Robinson. Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them indulged in gross sexual immorality and went after strange flesh. You too will suffer eternal punishment. You definitely don’t know what the Scriptures teach even though you profess to be a Christian.I feel sorry for you. May God open your sinful eyes to repentance.
I don’t think Bishop Robinson has ever professed to being a prophet. You are accusing him of not being a Christian simply for whom he loves. Fascinating.
What do you think then of Catholic Cardinal Dolan who paid off pedophile priests in his Milwaukee Diocese with as much as $20,000 per priest to leave the church. Instead of having these men arrested and charged with child molestation, he paid them off to leave. What is your criticism of this man?
I guess they can have sex with whoever they want, they just can’t marry them. And I mean that only about half- sarcastically.
What does the Catholic Cardinal’s behavior have to do with Bishop Robinson’s? Two wrongs don’t make a right. Besides, Robinson is going against a 2000 year-old Christian stricture against homosexuality. You don’t suppose his homosexual proclivity has anything to do with his support of same-sex marriage, do you?
waytoohypocritical
I feel sorry for you. Judgmental declarations of another person’s “eternal punishment”, isn’t going to get you very far in the direction of heaven, if you know what the scriptures teach. As the recent DOMA ruling says, moral disapproval does not provide a valid argument or case to support discrimination based on sexual orientation. Something tells me, there are probably several things you do that I would find immoral, like judging others, but the difference is that I wouldn’t use such a poor excuse to promote discrimination against you and your family. May your god open your hateful eyes to tolerance, love, and acceptance.
That does not make a lot of sense “moral disapproval does not provide a valid arugument. You should be doing opposite of those belief’s. You say open your hateful eyes to tolerance, love and acceptance?” Are you not saying the same thing, you are being intolerant of Christian belief’s and do contrary to them. You say may “God”, I am sorry if Bishop Robinson and the Episcopals believe diffently than my Bible, that is my right. It is about time people stop saying that just because you do not believe in something that you are hateful, that is simply not true. I am not the judge of anyone, nor do I say I am perfect.
Bruce: He was not commenting on WTC’s beliefs, but his condemnation of a man of god simply for whom he loves. And, to that end, I kind of think Bishop Robinson has a bit more experience with his god and what his god has in store for him over any poster here at the BDNews, no?
As I have said I am not his Judge, he knows what the Word says as a whole.
More importantly, do you know what your god’s word says as a whole?
You say, “he knows what the Word says as a whole.” The Word says God killed almost 2.5 million people, Satan killed 10 (who is supposed to be the good guy in that book again?). The Word says slavery is just a part of life. The Word says women are basically property as well. You say “he knows what the Word says as a whole.” I say the best use of the word is on the hole after a night of 5 alarm chili and beer.
NEWS FLASH Not everyone in this country is ‘christian’ and not everyone shares the same opinions on various subjects that ‘christian’s’ do…..the problem that arises is when people can’t seem to keep their noses out of other people business while attempting to shove THEIR ‘moral’ opinions down everyone else’s throats. Don’t like birth control? Then YOU don’t use it, but is it your or anyone else’s business who does use it? Don’t like abortions? YOU don’t have one, again is it your business or anyone else’s business who does get one? Don’t believe in being gay? DON’T BE GAY and again it’s no one business who is or isn’t gay. It’s called ‘Nun Ya’ as in- it’s Nun Ya business chummy. This country would be a better place if everyone payed more attention to what THEY were doing rather than interjecting themselves into and worrying about what everyone else’s is or isn’t doing.
sounds like you are doing the same thing.
Not the same. You’re using your religion to deny rights to others. You have your rights, but what makes you think you get to deny those rights to your neighbors?
Homosexuality is aberrant behavior that should not be accepted by society. I am not a religious person, but I know biologically there is no biological point to two people of the same sex having sexual relationships with each other. it is purely emotional and most homosexual people are very emotionally immature people.
So likewise, a heterosexual couple should not be able to be married if they are too old to produce children?
Why would an “old” person want to get married ?
It doesn’t matter why, it happens. You created the rubric now stick do it. Since “old” people can’t reproduce and sterile people can’t reproduce, why do they then have marriage rights?
Because they love each other and want to make a public, serious commitment to each other?
What about a man that has too low a sperm count or a woman who does not produce eggs? Are they “emotionally immature people” for wanting to make a “purely emotional” commitment to each other?
Why don’t you ask some? The elderly marry all the time.
What I’m saying is that a common argument against marriage equality is that it’s “against nature” due to the fact that a same-sex couple can’t produce children. If that’s the rationale, then the same can be said for my 70 year-old aunt who recently married a man her own age. Clearly, their marriage is predicated on love and companionship. Keeping in line with the previous reasoning, their marriage shouldn’t be allowed to happen either, because it has no potential for procreation.
But a couple who can’t reproduce can still engage in penis/vaginal sex. Homosexuals have to use devices and pretend they are engaging in sex.
But this is what you said earlier Quartz24 “Why would an “old” person want to get married ?” So are you now changing your “tune”?
I still standby my first statement, why would old people want to get married.
Flip Flop much?
….
Maybe because they fall in love with someone
Kinda like the GOP.
If you think that civil marriage is only for sexual activity between two people, I think you’re the one who’s emotionally stunted here.
No, in this case, civil marriage is attempt to make them feel better about themselves, they think this will make them feel happy and whole. But we have seen the progression to this point and we know it will not,so they will find something else to rage against,be upset about. Sooner or later the Parade Gay crowd will be smacked into their place by the average Joe /Jane who happens to be gay and just wants to lead a normal, happy life. It will be when these folks finally grow a set and stand up to this activist crowd and put an end to their histrionic behavior.
Do you believe in the separation of the races Larry? I ask because every statement you have made against SSM was made to prevent interracial marriage until the SCOTUS handed down Loving v. Virginia.
I like goat cheese, as relevant as your post.
Larry every single statement you made was said about the separation of the races and used to keep blacks “in their place”. The fact that you refuse to answer a simple question speaks volumes about your character and beliefs in equality.
Civil marriage is always an attempt to make couples feel better about themselves, isn’t it? The civil marriage license conveys thousands of benefits and privileges designed to help couples protect the lives they build together.
Gay and lesbians deserve equal access to civil marriage, that is the point we are making, and courts
haha you know biology? Then why many mammal engage in homosexual behaviors?
It’s a display of dominance, not homosexuality. When was the last time you saw 2 female lions performing cunnilingus? Never.
Yes and Lions do not have sex for pleasure do they? Other animals that do also engage in homosexual behavior. Humans use it as a display of dominance as well, so…. BOOM ROASTED!
Prove it. BOOM, ROASTED.
You are kidding right? Dolphins for one. BOOM ROASTED!
your kidding right?
Have you ever, in your life read about Dolphins and how intelligent they are, what feelings that they feel? Dolphins are incredibly intelligent and sophisticated creatures.
And horny, and not picky who they ,well, you know, will rub on whatever is close.Ive seen vid of the forcing themselves on swimmers,random humans, all kinds of things and creatures. If that is the argument you want to go with , fine by me.
You have “seen vid of the forcing themselves on swimmers,random humans, all kinds of things and creatures” really Larry? What channels dooo you watch?
“BOOM ROASTED!”??
Yes, Gay and Lesbian community, this is the guy you want speaking on your behalf. And thank you.
Your degree in biology would be from where?
I don’t play into the “discredit”the poster trick.
Neither do I but thank you for doing so with your non answer.
I would hope human,Society and evolution separates us from the animals .We should not act like our pets.
timmy we can always count on someone to bring “pets” into the discussion.
Name a animal that killed someone because they had a different religion? We are animals, to deny that is to deny reality.
Horny knows no boundary.Any more questions?
And your point?
Using horny and opportunistic D
Dolphins,Chimps and Penguins to justify/rationalist the Gay life style is a silly point to make. That was the point.
Opponents to SSM have been making the claim that homosexuality does not “occur” in nature, is not natural, etc…the poster has demonstrated that it does occur in nature and occurs in multiple species. The only reason you find the point “silly” is it refutes your position that homosexuality is unnatural and does not occur in nature.
All sorts of abhorrent behavior happens in Nature, are you saying that because it does that it is a justification for like behavior in humans? I hope you are.
Larry the poster was not talking about “All sorts of abhorrent behavior” that “happens in Nature”. They were providing examples of “homosexual” activity that certain species of animals engage in and that the activity is “natural”.
Now please, provide the readers with examples of “All sorts of abhorrent behavior happens in Nature” that is worse than:
1) “Men of God” abusing children for decades and being moved from parish to parish so they could continue their sexual abuse of children.
2) The “man” in Florida that decided to eat the face of another human being.
3) The “husband and father” that murdered his wife and children in Dexter last year.
Please provide those examples…I hope you try.
No, he’s simply refuting the idea that homosexuality does not occur in nature.
Your argumentative skills are rather circular.
Sex is a basic instinct you know that right?
Horrible movie,poor bunny.
Really, to deny that Sex is a basic human instinct is denying reality.
And to link Gay human sex to what a horny dolphins , not picky how they fulfill sexual urges and having no impulse control when “the need arises”, is funny to me. But if that is what you want to go with….
Do you deny that sex is a basic human instinct? Yes or No Larry.
Actually, from what I have heard about and seen what happens in straight singles bars, I would say that straight men and women also are not picky how they fulfill sexual urges and have no impulse control when “the need arises.”
I don’t understand why people think sexual activity should even be a topic of discussion here.
And who exactly defines that homosexuality is ‘aberrant behavior’ you? Look it up in the DSM-IV-TR (and I’m pretty sure you have no idea what that is) and site the number except that you can’t- because it’s not in there and hasn’t been since 1973 duh. And do site your references as to where you obtained that gay people are emotional and immature people- because I’m sure you aren’t making stereotypes up and have empirically based evidence to support such a claim…..
Ummmm there are many people who get married and decide not to have children or can’t have children……so what’s the point of them getting married? Clearly they are emotional and immature people NO marriage for them……oy.
Where did you obtain your degree in biology?
I don’t care what you do, just don’t ask me to pay for what you want to do. People should be able to do what they want and marry who they want. They may even want an abortion and that’s fin but don’t expect me to pay for it.
Then should we make marriage between 2 or 3 or 4 alright then? Or since people love their animals so much, should not we allow them too?
“Then should we make marriage between 2 or 3 or 4 alright then?”
Well since one of the original forms of marriage found in the Bible was polygamy then I would think you would support it.
~~~~~
“Or since people love their animals so much, should not we allow them too?”
Short answer, it is illegal for the following reasons a) animals do not have conscious thought, b) animals cannot provide informed consent, and c) animals cannot sign contracts.
Like some mentally ill people.
Ah no Larry…Mentally ill people have conscious thought.
You want to stick with that idea? I dont think you do.
“You want to stick with that idea?”
You mean that “mentally ill people have conscious thought Larry”? Yup unlike some posters I am pretty dogged in my positions.
Would you like to try and prove that statement wrong Larry? Please do.
Oh women want the right to vote? Why not votes for our pets too?
Great argument bruce.
You allow a man and women to marry, why not a man and 2 women, three women? see that argument can be made with the way things are now, and if you do not know why an animal can not get married then please stop talking.
Yes clearly I am doing the same thing- picking on those poor disenfranchised christians….let’s see there’s a bible in every hotel and motel, there’s a church on just about every corner, you all hold signs up on street corners, insist ‘god’ be on our money, knock on stranger’s doors to ‘share the good word,’ deny other fellow American’s their right to marry, or hold a job or adopt children simply because they’re gay……yes clearly it’s the christians who are getting picked on in this country Bahahahahahahahahahahahahaha RIGHT.
I appreciate your statements and agree with most of what you say however, if I don’t have to pay then I really don’t care what you do with your life. Just don’t ask me to take my hard earned money to pay for your abortion etc.
When has anyone asked you to pay for their marriage? This makes no sense at all.
Really! I guess you can focus on what you want to. I said abortion is a choice I don’t want to pay for. If you wish to marry a person of the same sex then do so.
Sure as long as I don’t have to pay for your cancer treatments, diabetes medications or anti depressants…….not my problem…..right?
You make a big mistake. Cancer is not a choice where your way of like is.
Your right, Only about 79% are Christian(Pew /Gallop ect), in this Christian Nation.
The Parade gay activist crowd is shoving their life style in the face of everyone they come across in attempt to make them feel better about themselves. If it’s none of our business,chum, then keep your business in the bedroom,keep it to your self and stop looking to the rest of us for validation.
If you and people like you kept your noses out of people’s bedrooms there wouldn’t be a problem chum……and while you’re at it keep beating your bibles in your own churches and quit shoving your life style in everyone’s face….and contrary to your clearly insightful opinion chummy, gay relationships are NOT just about sex anymore than straight relationships are….crawl back under your rock Larry…Americans- ALL Americans should all have the same rights. Equal protection under the law is a right and has NOTHING to do with freaking religion. DUH.
Larry…I don’t see anyone “shoving” anything in anyone’s face. Not sure where you hang around but if someone is “shoving” something in you face that you don’t like, maybe you should find a better place to hang out.
“I don’t see anyone “shoving” anything in anyone’s face” Congratulations, the most ridiculous post on this topic.
Again Larry…in 1947 when President Truman signed his executive order to desegregate the military people like you said the same thing. Again Larry…prior to 1967 and the SCOTUS Loving v. Virginia people like you said the same thing.
So Larry, I feel compelled to ask the same question that you have refused to answer once already…”Do you believe in the separation of the races Larry?”
Keep comparing you “plight” to that of slavery , I encourage it.
And to Answer your question, I have zero issues or concerns , problems ect , with interracial Marriage.
I have no issues with Gay or Lesbian folks and Civil Unions, as most of these folks would be very happy with this if it afforded them all the legal protections as Marriage does.
What I have a problem with is the Activist the Histrionic attention seeking and the whole Parade Gay crowd and their constant need to make sure we know all about their life style, and by default who they share there bed with.
This has nothing to do with legal protections, nothing at all, it has become all about the wants of a small group of people who want to make sure everyone else accepts their life style choice.Like this will somehow fix all of their woes and make everything better.this is about an even smaller segment of that group who just want to be contrary and need the attention this fight brings to them , they want the public affirmation they think this will provide, and the “in your face” outlet they need.
Well Larry it is not my “plight” as I have been married for over 25+ years.
And where did I mention “slavery” in my post? Slavery ended in 1865 about “four score and seven years” to late for my taste.
I compared SSM to interracial marriage. But I wouldn’t expect you to understand the similarities between an interracial couple being married in one state and arrested in another because of the color of their skin and the ban on SSM. I really don’t.
Now I am going to extend the opportunity to answer the question one final time. It is really a simple question that can be answered either with a yes or a no. So here it is again “Do you believe in the separation of the races Larry?”
Try staying focused on that one question Larry and I hope you will answer it in the negative…I really do and I hope you do answer it because not answering will tell all the readers who and what you really are.
Its funny how people say we are a Chirstian Nation, then want to get ride of many programs that help the poor, Say that we should stay out of places where their governments are kill there own people. Last time I checked according to the bible, God created the Earth so when you say we should not help them but help our own, you are turn your back on gods people. According to god we are all in this together.
Helping the poor by using Gov. to steal from one group to give to another is not helpful to any good society.
My solution, JD ,are things Liberals no little to nothing about. The first is charity, the second accountability.
I know this will need further explaining to you, jd2008jd, ask a conservative in your neighborhood and they can school you on it.
So Larry what is YOUR solution to feeding the hungry and caring for the poor?
You’re right: “DON’T BE GAY and again it’s no one(‘s) business who is or isn’t gay”. But what does this have to do with opposing same-sex marriage? I don’t see how one’s stand against same-sex marriage affects anybody’s right to associate and have sex with whomever they want to. Same-sex couples may draw up legal contracts with each other but they are not entitled to state endorsement of their relationships. Those endorsements are reserved for heterosexual couples for the growth and nurturing of future generations of children. It is intended to ensure children will be raise in the best possible family environment that only a mom and a dad can provide.
Ummmm you ‘don’t see how one’s stand against gay marriage…..affects anybodies right to have sex with whomever they want…” this is NOT about SEX this is about ALL AMERICANS gay or not being treated EQUALLY under the law. ‘Draw’in up legal contracts’ does NOT alone afford gay AMERICANS the same civil rights as other AMERICANS. The states that have gay marriage are not recognized by the federal government and thus income tax returns are an issue, family benefits are an issue, death benefits are and issue, seeing your ‘spouse’ in the hospital is an issue, if your spouse died fighting in the war you get no rights that any other spouse would get with a dead spouse, etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc….what is it you can’t comprehend? And by the way apparently you are unaware that there are plenty of gay people who have children and I know quite a few gay couple who have even adopted children…….children who had biological heterosexual parents who for whatever reason couldn’t or didn’t want to keep their children……which is why we have some 450,000 children in foster care in this country….just because to people have sex and produce a child does NOT make them qualified to be someone’s parent……and with the heterosexual divorce rate being what it is…being ‘raised in the best possibly family environment’ more than likely means multiple step parents, multiple half siblings and multiple transitions in a child’s life.
I’ve heard that argument before about gay couple being able to raise children, children in foster care needing a permanent home, etc. Nonetheless I favor a policy that favors the traditional family because children do better in a family with a mom and a dad. That’s just a fact. It’s not hard to understand why a mom and a dad team is better for children. This team has advantages endowed by nature that other teams don’t have. Also, I do not support in vitro fertilization as a means of producing a family. Besides the inherent danger it poses to the female it attempts to impregnate, it always bring about the certain death of several human beings in their most nascent form. Gay couples propose to raise children through this means and gay adoption, both of which I oppose.
I’m fairly certain that gay children come from…….straight parents (gasp!!! go figure) and if you don’t believe in in vitro fertalization then don’t have in vitro fertalization but you have no right to tell anyone else that they can’t anymore than someone has the right to tell you have to. If you don’t believe in gay adoption then don’t adopt but you don’t have the right to tell anyone else (gay or straight, single or married) they can’t adopt anymore than they have the right to tell you that you must adopt. And you state that ‘children do better with a mom and dad’ really?? Cite where you obtained these ‘factual’ aspects and when I say cite I mean a real accredited unbiased institutions not some hokey pokey place like Liberty University or some other religious biased nut place. Empirical evidence is based on impartial information obtained by unbiased researchers who use qualitative and quantitative forms of analysis. Anecdotal evidence lacks veracity and is not considered factual evidence. So where did you get this information? Enlighten us.
“And you state that ‘children do better with a mom and dad’ really??”
That statement is why you should be forever marginalized.
Murder is outlawed in this country except in those cases where pre-born children are unwanted. Nonetheless, these unwanted children are still human beings worthy and deserving of not being rejected and snuffed out. Like abortion itself, in vitro fertilization always claims a human life. The fact in vitro fertilization has not been outlawed and gay adoption has been forced upon the state by the court system does not mean people of conscience should support these two measures and end all noble attempts to get them outlawed.
Also, I stand by my statement children are better off being raised by a mom and a dad in a committed relationship of mutual love. Studies have shown this to be the case. You can search this out for yourself as I will not cite any number of empirical studies only to have you or others dismissed them as insignificant or irrelevant – besides, it is always possible to “poke holes” in such studies. Also, I’m sure you understand that empirically based studies of qualitative and quantitative data are very difficult to achieve in the social sciences simply because complex human behaviors cannot be readily reduced to clear cut, isolated, measurable quantities. As one who has a background in psychology I can assure you anecdotal studies are far superior to scientific studies when the subject of the study involves complex human behaviors.
Yeah, see that whole nuclear family Mom and Dad thing, they did away with that years ago.
Which Bible are you using? Please let it be King James…
Most say the same thing. The Bible has to be taken as a whole, I have heard people on both sides of the issue use certain verses. Some will say Jesus didn’t say certain things, though they fail to read all.
Yea, cause the Bible has exactly what Jesus said, there is nothing omitted at all, no misinterpreting at all… cause after all Jesus was followed around with a stenographer… suuuuuuuure. The old testament isn’t full of oral tales that have been handed down for generations prior to Christianity…. nooooo not at all. The Bible is not a story book it’s a historic record… yea that’s it, heck if enough people say it someone may believe it.
If the bible must be taken as a whole, then it’s pretty hypocritical to decry homosexuality while staying quiet about the lobster industry, the garment industry, divorce, businesses open on the weekend, etc.
Which is why i was hoping he read the King James version. King James was gay, so it would be a nice bit of irony.
Bruce, while I believe the Bible to be divinely inspired in part, it’s also true that the book itself was compiled and redacted in order to further political ends. A single interpreation of Jesus and his life was created by Roman scribes and politicians in part for use in converting the empire to Christianity, and other books were left out because they furthered a version of the story that was not compatible with the orthodox version.
Put simply, the books of the New Testament were written by people who most likely were hearing interpretations of what transpired. And as such, we can draw inspiration from what was written, but it’s completely foolhardy to say “this one book of the Bible said this, therefore a democratic society over 2,000 years later MUST do the same.” That’s simply undemocratic and frankly foolish.
You are entitled to your opinion. I was trying to point out the difference between saying someone will be judged by God, and deciding for yourself what God’s judgment will be. I was also just repeating part of the response from the federal judges that recently ruled on DOMA. Your religious views or morals should not be able to decide my right to marry. Would you want your civil rights determined by my spiritual views or morals? Personally, I feel that is something people, like ‘waytoocool’, don’t understand; you shouldn’t force your religious views on those that are nonreligious or who are not part of your faith or denomination. My ability to get married wouldn’t have an affect on your marriage, your ability to marry, or your right to hold a religious view that doesn’t support my marriage.
But it does effect my ability to voice my veiews on laws. It gets tiresome of some using the excuse because I am against something that, I am intolerant or hate a person. In essence they are using the same thing that those who say they hate someone for something.
How?
Seriously— how is your ability to voice your views at all impacted by civil marriage for same sex couples?
No it doesn’t, you can still voice your views all you want, but people get to voice their views on your views as well. Not everyone will agree with you, and passage of SSM will not affect you in any way shape or form. Think about it this way, many states have laws against nudie magazine sales, but has Larry Flint ever been denied the right to complain about those laws?
P.S. Anytime someone is against equality they are going to be seen as intolerant. If the positions were reversed and gays could marry but not straight people simply because some book that is not a book of laws says so, they too would be intolerant.
I believe most of us(LGBT people)have a lot of respect for religious freedom. I’m sure, in most cases, the bishop would be/is an advocate of religious freedom. Proponents of marriage equality have also paid specific attention to religious freedom, in their wording on the ballot. This is ultimately only about a marriage license, because no religious institution would be forced to recognize or perform a same-sex marriage. In just this conversation alone, you have displayed more tolerance than a lot of people offer. You aren’t trying to proclaim my eternal punishment, despite your personal religious beliefs. You haven’t declared our lifestyles ‘immoral behavior’. You also haven’t tried to associate us with perverts, pedophiles, or horrible mental disorders. Several common responses that I would consider hateful, but at least you seem to understand that they wouldn’t be very constructive responses. I also say hateful, because a comment like waytoocool’s almost sounds as though he/she is wishing harm and punishment on another person. It goes beyond simply disagreeing or stating your reasons for being against something. It has been a while for me, but I was always taught that it is also a sin to confess someone to hell.
I appreciate your thoughts. Though some consider my belief’s hateful thoughts I can not change what the Bible says. Yes, I realize some will use one verse or two. I firmly believe that I can love someone that does not believe the way I do. I can understand even what you are wanting. It does not mean I have to hate. As stated in previous comments, I am not the Judge, it is clear anyone who may judge another is in danger of judgement themselves. I think we are taught to share our beliefs in a constructive, loving way, but in the same instances have to be clear on consequencies.
Yet, not in a spiteful, vindictive way. It is another persons choice to believe or not.
Bruce, the quote is referring to the 1st Circuit Court of Appeals’ ruling against the Defense of Marriage Act, stating that the law had no legitimate backing other than to codify one particular group’s “moral disapproval” of another act.
Exactly.
And just look what that circuit comprises of.
It’s comprised of judges educated in accredited law schools and appointed to their posts by various sitting Presidents of both political parties. I get that you’re somehow trying to insinuate that because New England is more socially progressive than the rest of the country, that the Court’s opinion is somehow moot. However, you’d find that that reasoning would never hold up in court. Pun intended.
Those judges were placed there by Reagan and Bush Sr. and Clinton
Now Bruce what do you mean by “just look what that circuit comprises of”?
Do you mean what Districts do they hear appeals from? Because the answer to that would be Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island and Puerto Rico, or
Do you mean the current Judges and who appointed them? Because the answer to that would be: Judge Lynch (Clinton), Judge Torruella (Reagan), Judge Boudin (G.H.W. Bush), Judge Howard (G.H.W. Bush), Judge Thompson (Obama) and Senior Judge Seyla (Reagan), Senior Judge Stahl (G.H.W. Bush) and Senior Judge Lipez (Clinton).
LOL, you think that mere “moral disapproval” alone is enough to pass a law? Tell that to years and years of case law.
Yea, and tell that to the Constitution. Case Law can change as we have seen over history
You don’t even know what you’re talking about. They use the Constitution to come to these determinations. As it is, moral disapproval is not enough (has been the case for decades) and there needs to be equal protection under the law for similarly situated individuals (has been the case for over 100 years).
Yes it can, and now we can add the 1st Circuit’s decision to the growing case law on civil marriage for same-sex couples. It is indeed growing, towards disallowing any attempt to prevent same-sex couples from being married in the same capacity as their heterosexual neighbors.
Well when was the last time you had a trans-vaginal ultra sound for no medical necessity?
Not sure, but it was probably a red state ;)
I suspect you are right …..sigh.
AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!! JUST BECAUSE I DON’T ACCEPT I “HATE” WELL PUT BRUCEFL56!
Call it what you want, but denying your neighbors the same rights you enjoy sounds pretty hateful to me.
Not accepting is not hate, denying is hate. No one is asking, or even cares if you like it, but when you deny equality, then you cross the line into hate.
Now that is put wrong. Because belief is contray to what you say, does not mean it is hate.
Like I said, believe what you want, and have a great time with Jesus, Puff the Magic Dragon, and whatever other fictional characters you want to have in your playpen. When your belief crosses into hate is when you use your belief to deny someone equality under the law.
That is utteryly ridiculous. Using hate as an instrument to inflame and get your way. I guess if that is your conclusion you hate Christians? That is truely unfortunate.
Yet you haven’t given a single argument against what I said, because you know it to be true. Christianity is full of hate. Think of the people in the Sodom and Gomorrah fairy tale. How many people did god kill simply because he hated them for spurning him and his rules? How many people over the centuries have been killed because they were of a different belief than christianity? Christian history is full of intolerance and hate, and things have yet to change. I don’t hate Christians, they are like the court jester, cute, but not too bright. However, when they deny people equality because of their fairytale book, then I have a problem with them. This is America where freedom and equality rule, not a book of fables.
Sorry Dane, but the book is not a fairy tale…as a matter of fact the book has been published longer than any book out there. I’m sorry you don’t believe it to be true. And me saying that is going to make me sound arogant, but I mean it. Jesus died on a cross for our sins because He loves all of us. I may seem like a court jester for believing this, to you, but in the end, Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. I hope one day you will take to heart that He loves you enough to have died for you. Peace.
My god is Odin, the All Father, he carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a cross. Seems like there may be a relationship there. The bible’s years of publication does not make it true. Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey are older and have been in print longer. Should I go on a 10 year mission from Troy to Ithaca because Odysseus did? Aesop’s Fables (at least he was honest in the title) date back to 600-550 BC, should I sit around and wait for a lion and a mouse to talk to me? Your religion was built on political expediency, not the good of man. Don’t believe me? when is Jesus’ birthday, and why do you claim it to be in December? It is easier to get people to assimilate if they think your religion celebrates the same important days as theirs does. Find out why Sunday is your holy day, it has nothing to do with Jesus. I am glad there are Christians though, it provides a large group of people to practice Jedi mind tricks on, they only work on the weak minded you see. May the Force be with you, always.
Denying isn’t hate, I can deny my child a cookie…that doesn’t mean I hate them…
This has to do with equal rights under our law. If my equality is infringing on your religious freedom, then the lack of gay marriage infringes on the religious freedom of churches that want to marry same sex couples, after all.
Bruce, i dont profess to speak for anyone else but what i believe he meant is that when people post such as waytoocool did, he speaks of hatred towards people that do not believe as he does and follow his own morality. I wish no ill will upon any person who believe in god in their own way and dont want to change anyone’s mind. The post from waytoocool was filled with anger, hatred and hope of eternal damnation. I dont believe that is what good god-fearing folks believe and i certainly dont believe that is what the bible intends. So you dont agree with same sex marriage, well ok, then vote no. That is your right and anyone who agrees with same sex marriage, as i do, has to accept that as your right. I do not believe there is any such thing as perfection, we all sin, we are all flawed and we all have the ability to choose our own morality and view things such as the bible in our own way. When religious people start to threaten hell and eternal damnation though, its hard not to look at that as hatred or anger. I hope you can understand that.
Very well said. I agree whole- heartedly. Just because something is not for me or goes against my personal beliefs, does not mean I have the right to choose for others.
You make good points, Jeff — but saying “vote no” is the tipping point. NO ONE should be able to vote on what should plain and simply be a civil right. A “right” should never appear on a ballot, obscene sums of money need not be spent by the Pro and Anti folks, religious bigotry need not hold sway. Peoples’ right are the issue and voting on rights makes no sense at all.
I do understand that, but the great good is redemption. Also people keep saying, Jesus is Love, God is Love, which is a good point. But, there is the other side. I do not call those in opposite viewpoints, stupid or worse. They may not agree with me, but if I can listen to someone disagree or not, should not they.
I totally understand what you are saying, as I said in the previous posting I am not the Judge. It s the approach, we or anyone that believe’s in the Bible has to find his way,though it can be difficult because if someone we believe is wrong according to His Word we are to go to him. That doesn’t mean a flogging, if he chooses not to believe that then it is up to that person personally. Though I am glad you respect that fact that I can vote according to my belief’s whether you disagree with me or not.
waytoocool you are so NOT cool.
God condemns rape, not love. There is nothing immoral or sinful about being gay.
No there is nothing wrong with being homosexual, however you are forbidden to engage in sex.
No I’m not. We do not rape each other, we love one another.
There are no laws in this nation against homosexual sex. And the biblical passages people cherry-pick about homosexual sex are as irrelevant as those condemning the eating of shellfish and the wearing of mixed fabrics. Even the New Testament passages by Paul deal with the forced sodomy Romans practiced against their servants, not the committed love of two individuals seeking to support one another.
But this begs the question– would you be okay with civil marriage for gays if they did not have sex?
Jesus also speaks about a man leaving his parents for a wife.
And how many times did Jesus speak about homosexuality?
He spoke on marriage and was very specific about a man and his wife.
Well since my question was specific to homosexuality (“And how many times did Jesus speak about homosexuality?”) and not marriage then the answer would be zero…no?
Since the 3 are one, we know what God says. Though I know you will just bring up other versus. The Book has to be taken as a whole.
I haven’t brought up any verses. Not one. So the answer to the question is Jesus didn’t say anything about homosexuality. Not one word.
It is not necessary, because he came to fulfull the law not destroy it. He did talk about marriage between a man and a women. If you believe that the 3 are 1, then you also must believe what God says.
So we agree that Jesus never said or mentioned anything about homosexuals. Now correct me if I am wrong but your position is that Jesus didn’t need to say anything about homosexuals because God already said something about it and since Jesus is God incarnate he did need to repeat it. Is that correct?
So why don’t we have to follow all the laws found in the Old Testament if we have to follow the prohibition on homosexual activity?
Which laws are you talking about, remember Jesus came to fulfull the law, and became our sacrifice, and also look aominations up in the New Testament. Jesus is also clear in the New Testament on marriage. Not my words, but the Bible’s. By what Jesus said about marriage, I think it is clear.
Bruce religious laws and civil laws are two different things. I doubt you would agree that no work should occur from sunset to sunset on the Sabbath. I am sure you would not agree that a woman must be covered from head to toe in garments. I am sure that you would not agree that woman and men should be separated in the sanctuary. But these “laws” come from various religions and denominations within religions.
Please do not play the “which laws are you talking about” as you know full well which laws I am talking about. When it comes to homosexuality the Old Testament book is often quoted but virtually every other law in that book is ignored or said to be antiquated.
You are not getting an argument from me about what Jesus said. But what you are getting from me is an argument that religious laws aught not and should not be the basis of civil law in a secular society such as the United States. If we do use religious laws which religion do we use? Which religions laws do we discard?
The law as written will not force any religion or denomination to perform a SSM if they believe it goes against their beliefs. It only allows for the State of Maine to issue Marriage licenses to SS couples. If your beliefs do not allow for a religious ceremony fine, I don’t think your church will have their doors battered down by SS couples looking to be married in a church that doesn’t want them. It is no different than some churches refusing to perform a marriage for a couple that doesn’t belong to their church or believe in God.
I only cherry pick bible verses I want to hear and forget the rest.
What Bible are you reading?
Save the sermons for the church will ya?
I’m not religious but I’m quite sure that substituting your own judgment for God’s constitutes a serious sin.
WOW, I can’t wait til’ people like you pass away and we can get onto more important issues.
Whattaya think, a couple more decades? Three at the most.
Think about it, your opinion will continue to be perceived more radically as time passes. The irrational need to judge people that have NO AFFECT ON YOUR LIFE WHATSOEVER.May want to get right with your God. There’s still time.
I am happy you came along. You seem to be very knowledgeable on things dealing with religion , things like eternal punishment. If it isn’t too much of a bother would you be kind enough to give me the name of one homosexual person who you know for a fact was denied admission to heaven.
Find another word then for your union other than “marriage”. As Christians either the Bible is the word of God or it is not. The Bible makes clear that a man and a women leave their mother and father and are joined together as ONE by God. Have every benefit that I have as a heterosexual married person I do not care… but again find another word to describe your union because it is impossible for two men or for two women to be married.
Again, that is your opinion. Having been brought up in the church, and as the son of two ministers, I would posit that I’ve read my Bible, yet came to a very different conclusion than you have. The point is, your conclusion on what you’ve read, however popular in some Christian circles should never be the sole backing for government policy. I am perfectly content with you not believing in same-sex marriage, and likewise whichever church you attend has no obligation to perform or recognize those unions. Yet we’re not talking about religious concepts, we’re talking about highly significant and important civil protections, which should not discriminate based on gender.
The freedom of religion is twofold. It’s your freedom to practice as you will, and everyone else’s freedom to live without another religious doctrine dictating how they can live their lives. Your dissent, however heartfelt, cannot stand in the way of the attainment of constitutionally protected civil rights.
The States of Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Iowa, Connecticut, New York and the District of Columbia would beg to differ that it is impossible for two men or two women to be married. Same sex marriage has been legal and possible in the State of Massachusetts for 8 years now.
Also, the people of Maine are voting on Civil Marriage, which has nothing to do with the church or the bible. Two people need a license from their state to marry, but are not required to have the blessing of a church to do so.
um… Christianity doesn’t own the patent on the word marriage. Your cult did not institute marriage, and many other non-culty people perform marriages (i.e. judges, ship captains, etc) Your claim that marriage is a christian word is about as valid as Al Gore inventing the internet.
Then why so insistant on calling it marriage, other than that fact that you want to force others into that viewpoint.
Why don’t heterosexual people change the name for marriage? This reeks of ‘separate but equal’ which we all know was certainly separate but so NOT equal……
And no where in the Constitution does it say “Separation of Church and State”
Nor does the bible say that we can make laws based on morals.
your right because they are already made.
Moses, if he existed, and assuming the Bible can be believed as accurate, was more than likely schizophrenic. Auditory and visual hallucinations like a talking burning bush, and hearing voices are classic symptoms. Might be mushrooms too tho…
And no where in the Constitution does it provide for one religion over another or one religion that makes the laws for our citizens.
And WHERE in the constitution does it say that the state and religion are to be one? The Constitution it CLEARLY states that the government will not makes laws establishing a religion for the country or prohibit the people of believing in or not in whatever religion they so choose. It’s all in the First Amendment to the Constitution provides that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ….” Tah Dah
Jefferson wrote, “I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.” and in Everson V. Board of Education (1947) SCOTUS Justice Hugo Black wrote: “In the words of Thomas Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state.” Think you know more than Jefferson and Justice Black?? I think not.
FYI: Marriage is not mentioned in the constitution yet strangely enough we still have marriage in this country, the Air Force is not mentioned in the constitution (only the army and navy are) yet we still manage to have an Air Force….there are many things not mentioned in the constitution yet they still exist in this country. SO?
Because that is what it says on the certificate at city hall/town office when you get a marriage license.
It has nothing to do with “forcing others into that viewpoint”— it has to do with the fact that civil marriage is the name for the government-issued license! There are over 1,100 benefits and privileges contingent on marital status at the federal level alone. This is why we are fighting for civil marriage.
After you file you first joint income tax return will you fight as hard to have tax law rewritten.
Nope. I will be joyful that we are able to protect the lives we share, the benefits far, far outweigh the so-called ‘marriage penalty’ on income tax (which is only a penalty if both partners have the same level of income).
Because you forget that despite early American practices, a civil marraige–that is the uniting of two people socially and in the eyes of the law–is a convention separate from the bestowing of the church’s blessing on that same union. While members of the clergy are able to sign marriage licenses, they do so as agents of the State, not of the church.
Frankly, what would make everything easier is if clergy stopped signing marriage licenses. Couples can be blessed by the church if it is their desire or custom, but as long as the word marriage is the assigned noun per written law, then attempting to create a “separate but equal” convention condemns same-sex couples to continued second-class citizenship.
Multiple words have multiple meanings. In the religious context, marriage means one thing. In a civil law context, it means another. Sorry you don’t have the mental capacity to deal with that, but it’s no excuse to treat others unequally.
It also gives no excuse to say ” you don’t have the mental capacity to deal with that”, simply because I disagree. I hear far more hateful and hurtful things form some of the pro people then ever from others.
You’re just deflecting now and trying to change the subject. This isn’t the first instance on earth ever where a word means something different in different contexts. That’s not new. So to act like it is and use it as an excuse to punish people YOU disagree with and to hinder their stance in society? That’s wrong. That’s hatred. Sorry if you don’t like that label, but it is what it is.
You can claim to hear more hatred from one side all day long, it doesn’t make one difference because only one side is using the law to punish those they disagree with and that’s you.
Is “coke” a drug, a brand or a generic carbonated soft drink?
Is “Kleenex” a brand or a generic word for paper that you blow your nose with?
Is “Xerox” a brand or a generic word for making multiple copies of a document?
Is “Apple” a brand of computer or a fruit?
‘and are joined together as one by god’ you say? But don’t forget and then they get divorced and remarried (as one by god again) and then divorced and remarried (as one by god yet again)……I guess god didn’t specify how many times someone gets ‘joined’ ….how very convenient
Instead of ‘marriage’ how’s NASCAR work for you? and do they need to come up with another name for divorce as well? …..how about instead of divorce they call it ‘christian hypocrisy’?
Maybe we should make gays sit at the back of the bus and have separate bathrooms and drinking fountains?
I mean its the same fountain just calling it by a different name.
We do have another word for it: civil marriage.
There are no religious requirements for civil marriage anywhere in our nation. Your church is free to accept or deny couples who want to have a religious marriage ceremony, but the government issued civil marriage certificate is bound by different rules than your religion.
I hope you will come to realize that my eventual civil marriage to my partner does not harm you at all, and in fact benefits society by encouraging stable, monogamous relationships.
===
Maybe we should take up a collection and get geekslayer some more books to broaden his horizons. We can get him ones on the same level as the Bible, you know like Grimm’s Fairy Tales, Curious George, or Dr. Suess…
….
And even with that great mind and wit he was unable to escape the grave. Never again to gaze upon the world and it’s beauty… the absolute certainity of never again seeing loved ones! He talked tough, but in his heart somewhere near the end there was hope . We all know what that hope is! There is the Truth and then here is everything else.
===
You do know that marriage was around way before bible right? Thats like the first university in the USA trying to ban all other University from calling them selves university because they think they had it first, or you can name your kid john because there was already a john in the bible.
Geek the proposed law is a civil law…not a religious one. And since SSM is legal in several states it is not “impossible for two men or for two women to be married”.
Being pro homosexual marriage is the trendy issue for now. But, in the end people will realize how evil it really is. At one time most Americans favored abortion, now with ultra sound and seeing that the abortion didn’t solve anything. People are now looking disgustingly at women who choose abortion. Someday we’ll realize how dysfunctional homosexual people are and wonder how did we ever allow acceptance of such aberrant behavior?
And we’re supposed to believe this isn’t hate?
It isn’t, I’m here for you wolfndeer when you finally decide you need help
You’re a hateful person and that’s obvious. Gays are emotionally immature? Please look in the mirror.
S/He isn’t emotionally immature, s/he is emotionally stunted. If s/he were immature then there would be hope for growth.
What is evil about the love and commitment I have shown together with my partner for over two decades? We volunteer in our community, give to charity, and support our extended families.
Seriously, where do you get this attitude that loving, committed couples wishing to protect their lives with civil marriage are evil?
When purchasing a wedding gift for that gay couple in your life please consider a closet !
And why would one wish to consider that chuck?
Anyone who know Bishop Robinson knows him as a very emotionally, immature person.
Please cite your source? Or are you lying?
Yes and Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard, Bob Carlson, etc, etc, etc were all shining examples of the moral majority – which were neither……Duh.
You are correct to add them to the list of emotionally immature clergy along with Bishop Robinson.
Do you know him?
Wow I don’t see you embracing love to your fellow man.
Dude, you’re calling people evil and mentally ill when they aren’t. Don’t try to turn this around.
I am a Christian, and I don’t necessarily agree with the idea of Homosexual relationships. However, I don’t discriminate and support Marriage Equality. It is not my business nor anyone others to control how people live their lives.
Thank you for your support!
Do words matter? Do words have meaning? I’m reminded of a radio ad campaign several years ago discussing how hurtful it was to some people when the phrase “oh that’s so gay” was used!
Why? What does it matter? Why use the word hate? or homophobic? They don’t matter. What is Love?
For once just stop pretending… two men cannot be married – two women cannot be married. Again, they should have every legal right and benefit that I have but they cannot be married. Committed, Legal Union – call it whatever but it will never be marriage. There will be best wishes and a hope for a happy and long life from me but you were never joined together by God and your Union was never blessed by God.
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/oh-my-god-who-the-hell-cares.jpg
In many states and nations we can indeed be married. I am as committed to my partner as any of my married friends are to their spouses, all we are missing is the rights and benefits bestowed by the contract of civil marriage.
Stop pretending you are hung up on the use of a word.
C’mon it’s not the same and you know it. Most people want to fit in and say nice things and not hurt other people’s feelings and I get that… The truth is that as a parent you want your child to be safe and secure. You may pay lip service to the legalize drugs now campaign but in your heart you do not want that child to engage in drug use. Same goes with sexuality… as a parent you may pay lip service to gay rights, gay marriage, open marriages whatever, but in your heart you do not want that for your child. Having experienced the feelings associated with an imminent violent death and surviving, the one benefit that I took away from that experience is that everything in ones’ life is quickly distilled down to the basics! There is Truth and then there is everything else.
“You will find many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view”
Seriously?? Does god un-join and un-bless all the people who divorce??? You seem to know what god thinks and who god blesses …so enlighten us- does god hate all the people who get tattoos, eat pork, work on the Sabbath, are not virgins when they the marry, etc, etc,etc? And does god still endorse slavery, selling your daughter into slavery, rape, smashing children against rocks and people with multiple wives?? Do let us all know what god thinks about all this ridiculous stuff as you have apparently appointed yourself god’s spokesperson.
Gee Whiz you “guys” get emotional! Look you silly goose, I never mentioned hate or un-bless? The bible is clear on marriage: God joins a man and a women together and blesses their union.
excellent advice for you from your bible, but why should your bible dictate how I live my life? Obviously your bible is different from Bishop Robinson’s and of the Episcopal religion in general. So why should we all have to live by your bible?
Thanks for answering.
Gee…. if you’re stereotyping me in with gay people, rather than you and your type of people, I’m good with that and if being ’emotional’ is pointing out all the hypocrisy that ‘you people’ like to cherry pick in the bible and ignore the rest of the ridiculousness that is also ‘god’s word’…..then I’m happy to be ’emotional’ as well.
And the Bible is not used to govern any more than the Qur’an or any other religious text in the U.S.
Geek and what of heterosexual couples that choose a civil ceremony rather than a religious one? Aren’t they just a married as someone that choose a religious ceremony?
See the title of the article says it all.. A gay bishop addresses the crowd. What does his sexual preference have to do with anything…
Hetrosexual Mayor of Bangor addresses crowd about the driveway tax…
or The Mayor of Bangor addresses crowd about the driveway tax…
whats wrong with you people. who cares who you want to have sex with.
Did you read the article? His sexuality has to do with the fact that he’s speaking about sexuality and marriage. That he doesn’t believe Christianity and homosexuality are incompatible.
Karl Marx’s loyal cohort Friedrich Engels, in his influential work, The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the States, disclosed the game plan in a single, succinct proposition: change the concept of matrimony, and the traditional family will cease to exist. And once the family is gone, society will fall apart. Knock out the cornerstone, and the whole edifice will crumble, which is precisely the ultimate goal of the revolutionary movement. Traditional marriage — if you believe in it, protect it. http://facebook.com/protectmarriagemain
Really, this hyperbole is unnecessary and off base.
We are not seeking to tear anything down, we are seeking to affirm and uphold our commitments to one another with civil marriage— to enjoy the same rights and benefits that all American families should have access to.
That is our “game plan”— to protect the families we are building, the children we are raising, and the lives we are enjoying. Same sex marriage will help our society, not harm it— for it will give gays and lesbians the same benefits of monogamous, stable relationships that heterosexuals have.
It’s sad that you so strongly fear the happiness of others, just because you don’t understand the love we share.
Yes I believe the was the same fear mantra that people were trying to sell when the anti-miscegenation laws were repealed by SCOTUS in 1967……and look heterosexual people are still getting married and divorced everyday……who’d a thunk??
Massachusetts has allowed SSM for a number of years. Could you please cite examples from Massachusetts that support your claim that “society will fall apart”?
#1. Massachusetts
And the examples to support the claim would be what Larry?
Read my lips. I am a christian and I am against gay marriage, but, if Maine decides to vote for gay marriage, then so be it. My faith will see me through the approaching storm. And, by the way, I don’t dislike gays. I cannot change their beliefs. I believe in Christ and they don’t. Thats o.k., I can live with that.
Thank you for this perspective— I’m sure that all of us can learn to live in a world where gays and lesbians are allowed to receive the protections of civil marriage the same as heterosexual couples.
You refer to “us” as heterosexuals and yourself as gay. I would think the word homosexual would be a better choice??? Homosexual marriage as opposed to Gay Marriage maybe? Word Games again? The word Gay has been redefined – now I guess it’s time for the word marriage to be redefined.
Is “coke” a drug, a brand or a generic carbonated soft drink?
Is “Kleenex” a brand or a generic word for paper that you blow your nose with?
Is “Xerox” a brand or a generic word for making multiple copies of a document?
Is “Apple” a brand of computer or a fruit?
Christians are supposed to be against divorce and masturbation, however, I don’t see them trying to legislate that. I find that odd.
Well, stop masturbating and repent!
I see the hypocrisy in it. They’re willing to hold gays to a higher standard than they hold themselves to. Why not just tell gays to repent — why push legislation that hinders their standing in society? They’re not pushing legislation that punishes divorcees or masturbators, so why the double standard?
I see the hypocrisy in Bishop Gene Robinson and his followers, but you are right, it’s the churches roll to preach right, from wrong, and repentance, not legislate morality, and most of them don’t. It’s the politicans and the Supreme court that will deliver the final word on gay marriage, whether it legislates it, or passes it on to the States to decide. Churches are doing their job in defining a marriage between a man and a woman. It’s their job to do so. Gays should not attack the church for upholding the word of God, they should , as they are doing, go after the politicans to get what they want. That way, we all can watch our leaders wrestle with their faith, or lack of it.
and here I thought the bible taught that marriage was between one man and many women…so has marriage been redefined since the bible taught that?
You don’t know the Bible. You are a rascal.
I am a bit of a rascal at times, yes.
Odd I don’t see “gays” attacking “the church for upholding the word of God”. In fact I see just the opposite. I see “gays” asking for the same civil right as you and I have. The “gays” are not demanding that a church marry them in any manner.
You read different headlines than I do. The churches are verbally attacked everyday. But thats o.k. The church has big shoulders to stand on.
Then you shouldn’t have any problem providing headlines from the United States of “gays” attacking “the church for upholding the word of God” James. I will wait while you look for those headlines and links.
Gays don’t believe in Christ … what planet are you on, James?? This newspaper article is about a bishop speaking at a local college. He obviously believes in Christ … whoo-boy!
Actions speak louder than words. He is mouthing christianity but his heart is in the wrong place. I could care less what the headlines state. It’s what he says that I draw my conclusions from. Whoo-boy!
and what does he say? Please tell me.
Thanks
So I take it you know every single gay person there is and you know for a fact that ‘they all’ don’t believe in christ…..no stereotyping there Jimmy.
Dear James: I am so happy for you that you love your god, excellent! If you are against gay marriage, then by all means, do not get one.
I do not believe in your god, who seems to be different from the Episcopal Church’s god, so please tell me why I should be forced to live by the standards of your god.
Thanks for answering.
To start with, our God is the same, it’s the rascals who teach is word that is different. Secondly, being a christian, not a rascal, I believe that gay marriage is wrong for society as well as gambling, but people voted in casinos, and if they vote for gay marriage, then so be it, which means that you do not have to live by god’s standard. As with gambling, I will have to live with the outcome, and I will do so. At the end of the day, I will be judged, and so will you. Good luck.
Drat!!! I missed that bible verse that said something against gambling !! At the end of the day I’m going home from work and spend time with my family while trying to be a decent person who does not inflict my judgement or values on others…..because THOSE are the people that will need luck…..and a lot of it.
Our God’s are not the same… My god has no consciousness, my god cares little for the actions of man as long as there is balance. My god is an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together…
What’s next? People wanting to marry their pets?
Right, because letting women vote led to pets voting too.
Brilliant…..it is hard to believe that some people are so obtuse, ridiculous, neurotic and fearful.
Dear Bishop: Your side stopped using that argument about 2 years ago because of its incredible ridiculousness. Animals cannot sign the civil marriage contract required by the state nor can they give explicit informed consent. Get with the program…your argument is supposed to surround the trampling of your religious liberties, got that?
Hey I just heard Scott Walker won!!!!
And that is relevant how?
Thank you Wisconsin it gives me hope for Maine. It is a breath of fresh air to see the failed social and fiscal policies of liberalism stuffed back into the box Obama opened.Hopefully the good people of Maine will follow suit.Time to take our state and country back.
The Old Testament says “The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them”. Jeremiah 14:14
The New Testament says “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” 1 John 2:4
The man is a a Liar and a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He is proclaiming things in God’s Name that are against what the Bible teaches. God has not sent Him.
Last time I checked marriage was a civil matter with a religious ceremony if one wishes. Isn’t that true?
Ahhh. Just the thought of your gay son, or brother, or friend being carried across the thresh hold by his gay husband on their wedding night makes your heart go pitter patter doesn’t it? But wait! They are about to consumate their new marriage. One of them is going to play the role of the wife! Ouch!!
You do understand that heterosexuals also practice the act of sodomy don’t you?
I see a Monty Python sketch in the offing. The GAY BISHOP.
All kidding aside,good luck sir.
Could someone please explain why marriage, gay or straight, is even a matter of state law? It is a religious institution and the state should stay out of regulating it period. Let each church decide what they want to do and let people enter into contracts for everything else. This whole issue is a problem because the government is involved…….
Could someone please explain why marriage, gay or straight, is even a matter of state law?”
Sure, because not everyone belongs to the same religion.
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“It is a religious institution and the state should stay out of regulating it period.”
Not everyone chooses a religious ceremony when they get married.
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“Let each church decide what they want to do and let people enter into contracts for everything else.”
It was proposed that way once but NOM said NO.
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“This whole issue is a problem because the government is involved……”
No…the “whole issue is a problem because” religion is involved. Different religions allow for SSM and others do not. Why the demand that only religious ceremonies be called marriage and everything else something different?
Why the demand that only religious ceremonies be called marriage and everything else something different?
Because “marriage” was a creation of religious beliefs and expression that is why the government should use a different term. “Marriage” is the term given to an act that directly descends from peoples spiritual beliefs therefore there is no reason for the state to use the term “marriage” for any union. If two people want to enter into a contract with one another they should be able to do so but why does it have to be called marriage?
If what you say is true, shouldn’t the church be demanding polygamy since that was one of the first forms of marriage?
God Instituted marriage. It is between a man and a woman. ““Therefore shall a man
leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife:
and they shall be one flesh” (Genesis 2:18–24)
How many times did Jesus speak about homosexuality?
that would be ZERO
He sanctioned the Union of One man and One woman as marriage. He never ever sanctions homosexuality!
Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
In a religious ceremony yes but we are not talking about a religious ceremony but one which is a civil ceremony. This proposed law has ZERO impact on religious ceremonies. If a church wishes to hold a religious ceremony for a same sex couple they may. If a church does not wish to hold a religious ceremony for a same sex couple they don’t have to, So why should a religious group be able to dictate civil law?
God wrote the laws on marriage. Civil law should protect society. Homosexual marriage threatens the very existence of the society that practices it. God judged Sodom and Gomorrah because of it’s “sodomy”, look it up. It’s a disgusting, unnatural, filthy lifestyle and God is very displeased with it. God loves us and sent His Son to show us that but he judges sin – some times on a national level like Sodom (they were know for their sin). Having a law that protects God ordained marriage and prevents the perversion of it is good for all society.
“God wrote the laws on marriage.”
Really? So when he wrote them why was polygamy one of the first forms and why do churches fight it today?
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“Civil law should protect society.”
Correct and civil law is supposed to be applied equally across all without regard to Biblical law (at least in the United States).
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“Homosexual marriage threatens the very existence of the society that
practices it.”
Well then you should be able to point to the actually (not perceived) harm that has befallen Massachusetts and Canada.
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“God judged Sodom and Gomorrah because of it’s “sodomy”, look it up.”
Have and have also read other translations of those events that come to a very different conclusion.
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“It’s a disgusting, unnatural, filthy lifestyle and God is very displeased with it.”
If you believe it then I would suggest that you do not practice it. Including all the sexuality activities which many heterosexual practice on a daily basis but only become “disgusting, unnatural” & “filthy” when two people of the same gender practice them.
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“God loves us and sent His Son to show us that but he judges sin – some times on a national level like Sodom (they were know for their sin). Having a law that protects God ordained marriage and prevents the perversion of it is good for all society.”
Never said he doesn’t. And if you want a law based on one religions beliefs careful as you may find the next law based on Muslim, Buddhist, Shinto, etc…laws and beliefs.
Right out of Bishop Gene Robinson’s Bible,9 on the understanding that laws are not framed for people who are upright. On the contrary, they are for criminals and the insubordinate, for the irreligious and the wicked, for the sacrilegious and the godless; they are for people who kill their fathers or mothers and for murderers, 10 for the promiscuous, homosexuals, kidnappers, for liars and for perjurers — and for everything else that is contrary to the sound teaching –1 Timothy 1:9-10
Homosexuality is not a crime in the United States.
I hope people were able to see him last night in Ellsworth. It was a great experience!