ORRINGTON, Maine — Opponents of gay marriage kicked off their fundraising efforts Sunday with collections at scores of churches throughout the state including Calvary Chapel, located on Route 15 in a former school.
After the 10:30 a.m. service, many worshippers dropped cash and checks into a wooden box at the back of the church. Church member Kent Smallwood, 31, of Corinth stood at a table by the box and handed out fliers featuring nationally known religious leaders such as the Rev. Mark Harris, president of the North Carolina Southern Baptist Convention, expressing support for the Maine campaign against same-sex marriage.
Ken Graves, senior pastor, urged people to contribute because “the family is under attack.”
Between 150 and 200 churches were expected to participate in the Father’s Day event.
“ We have intentionally chosen Father’s Day to emphasize the stark differences between those who support Biblical marriage and those who are attempting to redefine marriage,” Pastor Bob Emrich, chairman of Protect Marriage Maine, said last week in a letter to fellow members of the clergy. “We believe God designed and utilizes the differences between men and women to establish the ideal environment to raise a family. The other side believes moms and dads are replaceable by generic adults.
“They have raised over $500,000 in nearly a year,” he continued. “We have no illusions of matching that amount, but I believe it is critical for the state of Maine to see our Christian community and its churches enthusiastically support Protect Marriage Maine.”
As of June 1, Mainers United for Marriage, supporters of same-sex marriage, had raised about $359,000 compared with the nearly $10,000 raised by Protect Marriage Maine, according to documents filed with the Maine Commission on Governmental Ethics and Election Practices. Since then, same-sex marriage supporters raised more than $120,000 to match a $100,000 contribution from a co-founder of Facebook.
Supporters of same-sex marriage in Maine said earlier this year that they expect to raise $5 million or more for their campaign. Opponents have said they expect to raise far less, but collection plate offerings will go a long way toward helping fund the campaign, Carroll Conley, director of the Christian Civic League of Maine, said last month.
Additional collection-plate offerings at churches are expected in the months ahead, he said.
How much money was raised on Father’s Day won’t be known until later next week, organizers have said.
Mainers United for Marriage, the organization campaigning for passage of the referendum, also has the support of churches, clergy and religious groups. The Religious Coalition Against Discrimination is made up of ministers, churches and lay leaders who have voiced support for the legalization of same-sex marriage.
More than 100 Maine Catholics marched Saturday in the 26th annual Southern Maine Pride Parade in Portland. Prominent Catholics who participated included Portland Mayor Michael Brennan, former Gov. John Baldacci, former Speaker of the House Glen Cummings, and former Lewiston Mayor Larry Gilbert, according to a press release issued by Catholics for Marriage Equality after the parade.
Churches in Maine and elsewhere have raised money from parishioners for political campaigns in the past on issues including gay rights, doctor-assisted suicide, abortion and gambling, according to The Associated Press.
Federal law prohibits churches and other 501(c) (3) charitable organizations from supporting or opposing candidates running for office, either through financial contributions or endorsements.
In many ways, this year’s fight over same-sex marriage is a repeat of a battle over the same issue three years ago.
Mainers on Nov. 3, 2009, voted 53 percent to 47 percent to repeal a law that allowed same-sex couples to marry. It had been passed by the Democrat-controlled Legislature and signed into law by Baldacci in the spring of 2009. After the loss at the ballot box, EqualityMaine, a member organization that works on issues of importance to gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender individuals, began an outreach campaign to talk about the issue and began gathering signatures in August 2011 to put a question before voters.
Same-sex marriage proponents were required to gather at least 57,277 valid signatures, or 10 percent of the total number of people who cast ballots for governor in the last gubernatorial election. Earlier this year the secretary of state’s office confirmed there were enough valid signatures to put the issue to the voters.
The draft referendum question was issued Thursday by Secretary of State Charlie Summers. It reads: “Do you want to allow same-sex couples to marry?” The public has 30 days to comment on the draft. Summers’ office will issue the final working 10 days after that.
In New England, same-sex marriage is allowed in Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Connecticut and Vermont, and civil unions for same-sex couples are allowed in Rhode Island. Other states that permit same-sex marriage are New York, Washington and Iowa, along with Washington, D.C. The Maryland legislature voted earlier this year to allow same-sex marriage.
In February, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie vetoed a bill to allow same-sex marriage in that state.
In the states where same-sex marriage is allowed, the laws all came through either court orders or legislative votes, not through a statewide popular vote.
A constitutional ban on gay marriage passed in North Carolina on May 8.
Voters in Minnesota will consider a constitutional ban in that state on Nov. 6.
It is a shame to use a day created to honor all Fathers to raise funds to discriminate against loving couples and families. I hope there were members in those pews who let that plate pass by without adding to it to show support for ALL fathers and families.
Two fathers is abnormal
How about two loving and caring parents?
See, that’s the problem, they don’t care about loving and caring. As long as it’s a one man, one woman marriage, it doesn’t matter if the husband is a drunkard, beating his wife and kids to death, At least it’s a traditional marriage. Wanna rape some kids? That’s fine, the church will even help you cover it up, just as long as you don’t try and marry another man. Love your first cousin? Awesome! Because you can legally marry them, as long as they’re of a different sex.
Please don’t feed the troll.
You’re paddling against the tide there, but I admire your grit. :)
the only abnormal dads are those straight men that run off and leave the moms alone to raise their children.
I want to know if you are married. And if so how many times ,I have noticed most people who feel gay marriage will erode hetro marriage have been divorced. Since my parents were divorced I always had two dads and two moms, so did alot of my friends, so pretty much normal in these times.
My stepchild always remembers me and the biological father each Father’s Day.
Is this abnormal?
Yes
And why is that?
BTW, we’re all heterosexuals.
Whats that make a Step father?
From the article: Ken Graves, senior pastor, urged people to contribute because “the family is under attack.”
And that is the kind of BS these people spew. How is his or anyone else’s family under attack? Are homosexuals going to stalk his family? Are they going to hide in the bushes and pounce on them as they leave their home?
All of this hate towards a group of people because a 2000 year old book and Christian leaders cannot figure out why young people are leaving the church at alarming rates.
I wonder who will be the first to respond with: We don’t hate gay people, We just hate the sin.
I’d go out on a limb and say Kevin_Of_Bangor wrote it first……
I corrected it just for you :-)
The problem is the sin of prejudice.
If you are morally inept enough to live the lifestyle .Anything is possible.I especially do not like gays using school children to further their( cause). Teaching this perversion in schools should be stopped.
I know it is horrible how they teach children not to hate in schools these days. As for your own children you can teach them anything you want at home. If you are so upset join the school board, next time there is a seat open run for election. Then you can spread all the hate you want, only one probem you have to get elected, good luck with that.
Teaching perversion in our schools is another reason why we have a society in the trouble it is in.Every day there is a new child abduction or molestation of some sort.Very sad kids can no longer go outside to play without worrying about a predator going after them.All gays are not predators, why in maine should we put more pressure on our society by voting to accept this mess.Believing a child should have a male and female at home is not hate.The buzz word of the gays is hate i have watched this attack on our society unfold.Hate is not coming from the anti marriage crowd.
Hate is most certainly coming from the anti-marriage crowd. Do you refer to being regularly called a pervert, a pedophile, evil, immoral, a bad parent, or any other insult as a form of tolerance? Some stoop so low as to suggest our ability to marry ‘makes them sick’, or to comparing our love and commitment to marrying animals and incest. Denigrating and ridiculing perfect strangers is not hate to you? How is allowing same-sex couples to marry going to put any more pressure on society than there already is? If you understand that heterosexuals are just as likely to be predators, why try to falsely link gay people to them? I guess you are simply blind to the hate coming from your side.
Thank you for this. My SS Spouse (married in NH last year) and I spent Fathers’ Day weekend in New Jersey with my two stepsons and their families. The highlight of the weekend came when my 22 year old step-grandson announced that he couldn’t possibly get in any trouble because of all the grandparents who would be on his case – he pointed at the woman who was his Nanny when he was 2,3 & 4, his paternal grandmother, his paternal grandfather (my spouse), and me.
With validation like this, I fail to understand why the Ken Graves of this world feel that the family is under attack. Makes one wonder who is attacking whom?
What! This isn’t even coherent!
Gays using school children to further their cause?
LMAO!!! You are truly out of touch with reality.
Bring on all the nimwits who live to hide behind their bibles to justify their pathetic behavior and bigoted attitudes toward their fellow Americans who want equal protection under the law….yet these are the very SAME sheeple who; get divorced, aren’t virgins when they marry, eat pork, work on the sabbath, have tattoos, play football, get haircuts, eat shellfish, shave, curse, gossip, wear cotton polyester blended clothing, commit adultry and are supposed to love all of god’s fellow children (but clearly don’t)……yet somehow these same sheeple seem to ignore all that other inconvenient stuff in the bible that applies to all of them and instead of trying to be a decent human beings…continue to beat their drum of civil inequality (separate but equal has never worked kids) against other Americans who just want to get married legally by the STATE OF MAINE and not by any freakin church.
This is a CIVIL matter not a religious matter- as you need a marriage license issued by the state of Maine NOTHING is needed by ANY religious institution in order for someone to get married.
Just keep reminding everyone that homosexuality is one of the 4 sins that cries out to heaven for God’s vengeance and if they don’t like it tell them to take it up with God.
Unfortunately god isn’t the narrow minded nimwit preventing fellow Americans from getting married….that would be the wicked mortal minions who all think they speak for god…..I have no problem with god – it’s his fan club I can’t stand.
I can’t help noticing that the folks you disagree with keep getting called “nimwits.” In an earlier post, you mentioned common decency.
I wouldn’t mind seeing you tone it down and setting an example.
I need to ‘tone it down’ because I used nimwit SERIOUSLY???? Do you actually READ what other people say about gay people? They are called horrible names such as ‘Perverts’ or ‘sick’ or ‘twisted’ or ‘f@gs’ or ‘pedophiles’ or are told they are going to hell and are horrible people’ THOSE are the people who should tone it down……you can just deal with nimwit which is defined as ‘a silly or foolish person’ which they are. Pfffffffft.
So the answer is to drag your own knuckles and be the same kind of name caller?
you are being petty….. is that your argument, that TLMMSW should not be passionate about the ugliness that he or she speaks to….
I’m suggesting that s/he is using the same tactics that he/she deplores.
If I vote for candidate X and TLMMSW votes for candidate Y, does that make either of us a dimwit, candidate-phobe, hater, or bad guy? Or a bigot?
I’m sick and tired of the supporters of gay marriage and gay rights getting a free pass on the name-calling. Everytime they call someone a homophobe or a bigot, that is name-calling. It is politically correct, but it is name-calling, nonetheless.
All people deserve some basic dignity and respect as human beings. That doesn’t mean that we all have to agree that everyone is right, or we are bigots.
If that is being petty, than so be it. I don’t think it is being petty – I think I am calling patent, manifest, nonsense by its name.
And I’m not hiding behind a moniker, either.
Warren Spaulding
Buddy, you and I disagree about fairness and equal treatment under the law — but I agree that we need to be civil. Many on both sides of this discussion have been less than civil on these pages.
Thank you, penzance. Disagreement is fine; disagreeing “disagreeably” isn’t.
I am reminded of a verse in Romans 2 that says that when we point the finger, we need to remember that we are guilty of the same.
Many will point out on these threads that the anti-same sex advocates are guilty of many sins themselves, and that is certainly true. I find myself identifying with the Apostle Paul, who called himself “chief of sinners.” I would argue that I have earned that title for myself.
However, those posters that are displaying so much righteous indignation that someone would *dare* venture that SSM might be wrong, really need to take a look at how they are conducting themselves. I see a great deal of malice, name-calling, and hatred in their posts.
What good is is to oppose “hate” in one form, while stooping to calling people “bigot”, “uneducated”, “ignoramus”, “hater”, and other insults? Since when has that been an acceptable form of argumentation?
I oppose SSM because I believe it is wrong. Nonetheless, I have several gay/lesbian friends. Some of them are quite close friends. I can treat them decently, even while disagreeing with some of their stands on issues or certain behaviors.
After all, as “chief of sinners”, I don’t even approve of much of my own behavior.
Thanks again, penzance. Maybe we can bring some decency and sensible debate to these forums.
Now I see where you are coming from. No need to respond to my question above. You are fortunate to have such patient and tolerant friends.
I think that you are completely wrong to be against civil rights for all. Penzance has written eloquently as to why and how separate is not equal.
It is my opinion that you are being small minded to not understand why some posters who are more aware then you of the horrors visited upon the gay community are passionate in their postings. Their righteous indignation is well earned. On the other hand, I find your high handed
‘reasoning’ to be supercilious.
In the coming election you have a choice. If you cannot bring yourself to vote in favor of SSM, then why not consider not voting on this issue. At least you would not be voting against your gay friends best interests.
I think you are suggesting that I disenfranchise myself, because I do not agree with you.
I find using the ad hominem abusive, the straw man, the argument to pity, and the other fallacies on display to be supercilious.
So much for intelligent debate in a public forum.
Nitwit is the word you are looking for.
or dimwit
no I meant nimwit but thanks….they’re all the same
What are the other three? Wait, wait, don’t tell me. Wearing white after Labor Day, taking the tags off mattresses that don’t belong to you, and dogearing books instead of using a bookmark. Am I right?
Ha, ha , ha look them up I know truth can be painful.
you are laughing at your own stupidity… not at all funny, creepy..
Not nearly as painful as dealing with the constant interference in everyday life of people who haven’t moved past mythology yet.
Which god? Zeus? Vishnu? Allah? Buddha? Odin? The Great Spirit? Xiuhtecuhtli, the Aztec god of creation? Nu Kua, the Chinese goddess who created mankind? There are many gods, and they all seem to have differing opinions on the way people should lead their lives. Your god is no more right than any of the others. While you bend the knee to your god, it isn’t right that you try and force others to believe as you do. Why should your personal beliefs be any more important than mine? If SSM passes, you still get to maintain your personal beliefs by not marrying someone of the same sex, and those that do not believe the way you do, get to get married. No harm is done to you or your god if it passes. You have fear that some of those who believe as you do will be lead “astray” because SSM will allow their hidden “sin” to be socially acceptable. Your fear will be your undoing. As a wise man once said, “Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.” I’m pretty sure your god is against hate and suffering, so you are “sinning” just as much as those you profess to be godless, and the very same underworld that you say homosexuals will suffer the wrath of your god, will have a special place reserved just for you.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster?
:-)
Its totally wrong for the same sex marriage to be pushed on to the voters of the state of maine. NO MEANS NO. MAINE DOES NOT WANT IT. GO TO ANOTHER STATE AND PUSH IT ON THEM. PLEASE GIVE IT A BREAK!!!!
So you speak for all the people of Maine? And please tell me why you don’t want gay people to get married. How would it harm you?
NOPE JUST DO NOT THINK ITS RIGHT KEVIN AND IF YOU DO FINE. I AM VOTING NO FOR SAME SEX MARRIAGES. IT WRONG. BUT THANKS YOU FOR YOUR COMMENT..
Do you feel it is wrong because the bible says so? Did your parents raise you to discriminate against others? Why do you feel it is so wrong?
I would really like to read and honest answer from you and I don’t care if it is in all caps. There is a reason you feel it is wrong and I want to read that reason.
All caps is rude dude.
I could care less about the caps but I find it amusing he has refused to answer my questions.
I think is totally wrong in my view Kevin. My mother and father brought me up very well. If you are bringing up kids should have a mother and a father. But the bible tell me so too.
The Bible tells me to welcome the Samaritan, the stranger, and the outsider.
The (King James) Bible contains 31,102 verses, and yet only six of them (in any translation) have anything to do with same-sex behavior — making it one of the smallest issues in the Bible. Yes, if you come to the Bible with a prejudice against gay men and lesbian women, you can find a few verses that seem to support your prejudice. But I believe that even these very few verses, although they get repeated over and over in some churches, are being misinterpreted
The far larger issue in the Bible is found in the commandments to love your neighbor and welcome the stranger. The Bible in general, and Jesus in particular, shows concern for outsiders and those who have their rights taken away because they are perceived to be “less” or are thought to be different. Jesus did not spend his ministry preaching about sexual practices, but he did welcome everyone to the banquet table. He told us to love our neighbors, to judge not so that we will not be judged, to take the log out of our own eye before we try to take the speck out of our neighbor’s eye, and to not cast the first stone unless we are without sin.
I will vote against prejudice and in favor of fairness and equal treatment this November.
P.S. I’m a Christian and a straight married guy. My marriage is not threatened if someone else gets married.
you may be straight…… as a Christian you do not get to choose what you like and dislike in the writings of our Lord and Savior… you said:” making it one of the smallest issues in the Bible” that is an outlandish comment, it’s beyond that , it borders on insane, providing you are a christian.. it is not up to you to decide what is small or large , and you don’t get to rank meaningful levels.. you are just like the rest of the gay supporter.. a part time Christian.. you tell God your story, you give Him your ideas you tell Him you decided to trump his Laws and moral conduct… don’t tell us.. we already get it.. it’s an old and horribly wrong argument…. your day for truth will come, then you can explain it to Him. maybe you will be able to convince Him that you knew more than Him and that you decided it was a small matter and you then decided to take a position
Something that is mentioned over and over, such as seeking justice for the oppressed person, welcoming the stranger and the outsider, and loving your neighbor as yourself is, indeed, a larger issue in the Bible than something that is hardly mentioned at all.
You may choose to emphasize 6 verses out of over 31,100 — but when you do that you pervert the meaning of Scripture. You could find far more verses that support slavery than those that even appear to condemn same-sex behavior — and I would be glad to debate those six verses verse by verse. You are misinterpreting the clear meaning of Scripture.
Jesus welcomed everyone to the banquet table. He spoke well of outsiders, people who were persecuted, such as the Samaritans. He never preached against any sexual practices, but he did say “Judge not so that you will not be judged.” Matthew 25 says that the ONLY issue on Judgment Day will be whether we fed the hungry, clothed the naked, gave drink to the thirsty, comforted the sick, visited those in prison, and welcomed the stranger. This is the only time Jesus speaks of the Final Judgement and his words are clear, even if you choose to disagree with him. On Judgment Day you will be asked if you welcomed the stranger — and you will be held accountable for your prejudice.
“IT WRONG”? I didn’t realize the Incredible Hulk even had a view on marriage equality. This website’s comment streams are always so informative!
Please do not be so insulting to the Hulk…
Don’t make him angry…you wouldn’t like him when he’s angry.
Yea, you should see it when someone tells Hulk he is wrong based on a religious argument…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7wug7QG8Oc
All caps is a way of shouting in print. Please don’t shout.
Unfair discrimination based on prejudice is morally wrong. I will vote for fairness and equal treatment under the law. And I’m a Christian and a straight guy married 33 years, by the way.
Kevin > With all do respect, the voters ( people of Maine ) were given the oportunity to allow same sex marriage, the people of Maine said NO. We find ourselves in the same situation today, would our right to say NO be infringed on. I say that it is not your right to keep trying to take our right away from us.
What is it about gay marriage that scares you? For some reason you feel that if gay marriage is allowed your world would crumble around you. I’ll ask you the same questions I asked big bear.
Do you feel it is wrong because the bible says so? Did your parents raise you to discriminate against others? Why do you feel it is so wrong?
Don’t feed the troll?
I once asked a co-worker who is white [I am white also] why she hated blacks? This was in Virginia, a very racist area, she had no answer. I think this is the same thing with SSM, they have no answer.
Democracy, brah. Don’t like it? Change the law that allows the average citizen to bring forth new laws. The people of Maine brought this new question to the ballot.
Vote anyway that you wish. You have the right to be on the wrong side of justice. You have the right to be an ignorant bigot who interferes with other’s private lives. Creepy.
What makes you think you have THE RIGHT to discriminate against a whole segment of society. Equal rights should never be put out to referendum.
The people of Maine spoke November 3, 2009. Loud and clear.
You act as if it was a landslide victory when it was not.
Kevin Baby .Gay marriage is 0 wins 34 losses through out the country. thats a land slide by any measure. Its not your petty feelings that determines it. It’s the poor children who will be brought up in an abnormal & unnatural environment. By calling anyone names or saying they hate for disagreeing w/ a perverted idea of the basic rule of nature is typical of the shrill cry babies thats the gay agenda.
BTW , your hero Obama will lose in Nov. partly because he flip plopped & most people won’t have it . Try moving to Europe!
I don’t feed trolls.
I was brought up in an abnormal and abusive environment by my straight mother. I would’ve given anything to be brought up by someone who was not abusive. Gay, straight, red, green, purple, it doesn’t matter what color you are or who you love. It just matters that there is more love in this world and less hate. You aren’t helping.
The supporters of slavery would have won the vote in the South before the Civil War, and probably even after. The supporters of racial segregation would have won the vote in the 1950s, ’60s, or even the ’70s. Freedom, fairness, and human rights should not be voted on. Unfortunately, that is what is necessary, and this time, I believe, fairness and equal treatment are likely to win, despite past losses. The tide is turning. Those who oppose fairness and equal treatment are on the wrong side of history and morality.
You are wrong studies have proven that kids that are raised by gay parents are just as good an kids raised by strigh parents
You do know that gay marriage is legal in six states.Are you just trying to forget in your 0 to 34 numbers.
Was it approved by the voters ? No, it was shoved in everyones face.
If you use that logic so were desegragation, the right for women to vote,and pretty much every other social law. I still want to know how a gay couples marriage will effect you.
Gay is a preference ,not a race ,nor a gender . Losing arguement
and your ignorance is blatant and willing. Being homosexual is not a choice. Why would anyone want to endure the hatred and bigotry from people like you? I suggest you do some research on the topic.
Flaunting what should be done behind closed doors is a choice
LOL…Marriage equality has never been ‘shoved in everyones face’. Are you going to be forced to attend my wedding? Are you going to be at the reception? How would my marriage affect or harm yours or your ability to marry in any way?
That was the State of Aroostook not Maine.
That’s silly. The nation spoke loud and clear when they voted Obama in office, didn’t exactly see Republicans bending over backward to accommodate.
If we had put racial segregation up to a vote in the 1950s, ’60s, or even the ’70s, the white supremacists would have won the vote. Fairness and equal treatment under the law shouldn’t be voted on. Unfortunately, if that’s what it takes to gain liberty, that’s what we have to do.
By the way, I’m a straight guy married 33 years to the same woman. If my neighbors gain the same freedom that I take for granted, it does not threaten my marriage. I don’t understand why so many people are against letting people get married.
Do you consider the fact that maybe people don’t want religion pushed on them as well? No, you don’t.
question =answer… cute
You hit the nail squarely on the head. This is the crux on the so-called war on Christianity. A war on a people, whom if loved most by God, couldn’t BE attacked by any men.
Sadly for you, we live in a Representative Republic. This shouldn’t even be an issues put to the public vote. It is exactly the same as anti-inter-racial marriage. We live in a country that was founded (partly) on the fear of the tyranny of the majority.
If a minority, whether it be religious, racial, or genetic sexual disposition, is not acting in a way harmful to anyone else then the majority, under our current Bill of Rights, has no right to oppress them.
Freedom is being denied, a wrong is being committed, and that’s the reason we need to correct this wrong. Opinions have been changing rapidly over the last few years, and there is less prejudice today than there was just a few years ago. It is time to treat all adults fairly and equally under the law. The fact that we decided to deny some Mainers their rights a few years ago doesn’t mean that we should continue doing the morally wrong thing.
they’re forcing you to get married to someone of the same sex?
Nope, Never would happen I love my lady. SAME SEX MARRIAGES ARE WRONG!!!!! WHAT ARE WE TRACHING OUR CHILDERN.. READ THE BIBLE AND I THOUGHT IT SAID ADAM AND EVE, NOT ADAM AND GEV…
See, that’s the point! No one is forcing you to do anything, although you are interfering in the lives of other people by preventing other loving couples from getting married.
You were born straight, just as I was. Gays were born gay, lesbians were born lesbian, and a few people are bisexual (just as not all people are left or right handed, but a few are truly ambidextrous). We are what we are. So no one is going to change their sexual orientation just because everyone will be treated fairly and equally under the law.
No one will force you to marry a guy. No one will force any church to perform any marriage ceremony they disapprove of. No one will force anyone to do anything. Your life won’t be affected!
My 33-year marriage will not be threatened if my neighbors, relatives, and friends at church are given the same legal rights that I already have.
I’m for the freedom to marry because marriage is a good thing — it encourages fidelity, commitment, and family stability. If those things are good for straight couples, they are good for same-sex couples as well. I’m for the freedom to marry because I’m for marriage.
P.S. Please stop shouting.
Gays should have the right to be as miserable as the rest of us !
Being a strong man of faith in God, having had a gay brother, gay friends, having a person with AIDS live in my home for six months am very saddened by the church becoming negatively involved with this.
You are right it is sad that everyone has hate for any type of people for they have no idea that one of their own is gay and just think if they find out what would they say or feel. So the question should be what if one of their children was born with two different in body how would they feel and treat them. I have read about one family man who went into a hospital that need an operation and the doctor came in to let him know that he was a woman and man as well another family found out about their child how do they know how those families feel. I say God created everyone in his image and in different and he love everyone no matter what they are or look like. This country has to come to terms that God loves all no matter what, but if we continue to hate then this world is lost for all. Here is another question if there was a person left on this earth and it he/she was gay and you needed help or blood who would they call for help? that is the question that they need to answer for themselves.
Well said.
Amen!
Then can we pass a motion to allow brothers to marry their sisters? How about Dads to marry their sons? People to marry their dogs/cats? Where does it end…. If you say all of those hypothetical scenarios are different, does it not matter that you are infringing on those people’s rights? Many of the arguments that the SSM supporters have made can be applied to these same scenarios. Why not, right?
There are laws against incest for biological reasons. By your logic bigamy should be legal since it’s the church sanctioned union between a man and a woman and another woman and another…
Biological reasons…Sort of like AIDS? What other biological circumstances could there be that should prevent a father marring his son? If you’re going to say that a condom prevents AIDS couldn’t you also say that a condom prevents any/all issues associated with incest? I think that if you want SSM marriage to be legal you should stop discriminating and be fighting to make all types of marriage equal… after all, it is you that wants “equal rights” not “special rights”.
Your comments are deranged and really make no sense. Are you lonely and simply looking for some attention. Well, you will get it here from the other ignorant bigots. Shame on you.
uneducated
By your logic, than would not Marriage between a Man and Woman be a special right?
What’s so ‘special’ about wanting to be able to do what any OTHER American can already do? Seems to me the people who want the ‘special rights’ are the people who want to prevent others from having the SAME EQUAL RIGHTS as them….and that’s just D U M B.
As I say elsewhere on this page, I’m a straight guy married to the same woman for 33 years.
Gays and lesbians aren’t asking for anything odd. They are only asking for
what I already have — the same right to marry the adult person I love, a
right that I already have.
I can’t marry my parents or my children, and gays and lesbians don’t want to marry their parents or children either, either, and they aren’t asking for that. They are asking ONLY for the same freedom and equal treatment under the law that I already have. The law should treat us equally.
This is not about marrying dogs or marrying children because dogs and children can’t give informed consent, and never will be able to. This IS about adult humans being treated equally under the law. My neighbors, relatives,
and fellow church members should have the same right to marry that I
already have.
We should all be treated equally under the law — gays and lesbians should be treated the same as I am treated.
My marriage is not threatened if my neighbors get the same freedom and are
treated the same way I am treated. How does it hurt you if someone else gets married?
Why is that so difficult? Shouldn’t gays and lesbians have the same freedoms that my wife and I already have?
Wonderful reply, penzance!
Thanks, Regular Joe. I also appreciate your comments, and your tenacity. Keep up the good work!
The topic is same sex marriage. It is an unreasonable assumption to make that because I want to marry the man I love I should be fighting to make it possible for anyone to marry anything.
Special rights are when one group of people (i.e. straight people) can participate in an action (i.e. marriage) while other groups (i.e. gay people) cannot.
Are you saying that heterosexual males and females are biologically different from gay males and females and thus incapable of acquiring AIDS based on biological reasons?
Your argument is invalid for very obvious reasons that you refuse to acknowledge. I’m surprised you didn’t say what is stopping a person from marrying a toaster.
I’d love to hear the reasons so that I could refute them.
But down your bible and start thinking for yourself. Your life will become better.
I’ve never been to church in my life, the closet I’ve come to a bible is sleeping at the Holiday Inn.
So you are just a bigot for the sake of being a bigot then?
No, I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. What’s wrong with calling it something else? If they want to have their own name for it, then I’d be much more likely to vote in favor
Many argue that marriage is a religious rite and has its roots in religion ….. any couple who chooses to marry civilly rather than in a church should then call it by another name? You state that you have never been to church in your life so one would assume you were married (if you are ) in a civil ceremony ….. is it marriage or have you taken advantage of a co-opted “historically” religious rite?
“Separate but equal” is not equal. We tried that during the days of racial segregation — whites can have one railroad car, and coloreds can sit in another “equal” railroad car — whites can sit in the front of the bus and coloreds can have “equal” seats in the back of the bus. Whites can have their public rest rooms, and coloreds can have “equal” rest rooms of their own, etc., etc. But the idea that one group was not good enough to sit in the same seat or use the same bathroom meant that they really weren’t equal at all.
Marriage is a legal covenant that is written into thousands of laws. When you give people second-class marriage, such as “civil unions,” you are saying that they are not good enough for real marriage, and you are telling their families, friends, and neighbors that they aren’t really married, but that they are something less.
All people should be treated fairly and equally under the law.
Then after that, the church can approve or disapprove, as they choose. No one is asking the churches to change anything they do.
I’m a straight guy, married 33 years, and a Christian. And I believe that the law should treat everyone equally.
The Bible itself isn’t the problem. The problem occurs when people take their prejudice to the Bible, and start looking for confirmation for that prejudice.
Don’t be so obtuse and ridiculous….why don’t you google how many states (including Maine) allow people to marry their first cousins ( you know people that you are biologically related to) and that’s all well and fine, but two consenting adults who are gay shouldn’t get married……R I G H T.
They call those the “Tea Party State’s”
Yes, although without the improper apostrophe. Sorry, it’s a pet peeve of mine.
Pardon me….
Why don’t you do the smart thing and look at countries and states where SSM is legal. Are people now trying to pass laws that would allow them to marry their pets? Or their siblings? Or wherever else your irrational slippery-slope argument is taking this?
You seem incapable of understanding this issue on its own merits.
Examples of SSM are out there. Stop with the fear-mongering and show us some facts. How has any society which currently allows SSM been directly harmed by that action?
That’s the question your side needs to answer.
What an ignorant, sick comment.
What is sick about it???. define please.. So what you consider is OK is sick to some and what others want to do is sick to you??? I guess you have your own thoughts on how people should live their lives..(-;
by not butting into other’s private lives…. that is how I believe people should live their lives..
MadeinMaine was comparing two loving adults who want to get married, to people with diseases (AIDS) and people who want to have sexual relations with children. usegoodsense said that is an ignorant, sick comment. usegoodsense has a point. Being gay is not a disease. Gays are not asking for the right to marry children. To make such a comparison is insulting, and it certainly sounds ignorant.
As I state elsewhere, let’s start by mentioning that I’m a straight guy married to the same woman for 33 years. Gays and lesbians aren’t asking for anything odd. They are only asking for what I already have — the same right to marry the adult person I love, a right that I already have.
I can’t marry my dog, and gays and lesbians don’t want to marry their dogs, either, and they aren’t asking for that. They are only asking for the same freedom and equal treatment under the law that I already have. The law should treat us equally.
This is not about dogs or children because dogs and children can’t give
informed consent, and never will be able to. This IS about adult humans being treated equally under the law. My neighbors, relatives, and fellow church members should have the same right to marry that I already have. We should all be treated equally under the law.
My marriage is not threatened if my neighbors get the same freedom and are
treated the same way I am treated.
Why is that so difficult to understand? Shouldn’t the law treat all adults fairly and equally?
Let’s start with the fact that I’m a straight guy married to the same woman for 33 years.
Gays and lesbians aren’t asking for anything odd. They are only asking for what I already have — the same right to marry the adult person I love, a right that I already have.
I can’t marry my dog, and gays and lesbians don’t want to marry their dogs, either, and they aren’t asking for that. They are only asking for the same freedom and equal treatment under the law that I already have. The law should treat us equally.
This is not about dogs or children because dogs and children can’t give informed consent, and never will be able to. This IS about adult humans being treated equally under the law. My neighbors, relatives, and fellow church members should have the same right to marry that I already have. We should all be treated equally under the law.
My marriage is not threatened if my neighbors get the same freedom and are treated the same way I am treated. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? Shouldn’t the law treat all adults fairly and equally?
The only time gay marriage flies is when it’s forced on the population.
Stand for whats right ; gay marriage isn’t
I know don’t feed the trolls but I have to respond to this.
So why are you trying to force your biblical views on the population?
I checked out your profile. You love to speak about a god so I know you are a bible thumper and you only base your views because of biblical teaching.
I find it sad that you don’t think for yourself but rely on information from 2000 years ago because you think it is the word of some god.
People rely on god and religion because they don’t have to think for themselves. “The bible says NO!” is all they need to remember. Sheeple. If they love the bible so much then they must believe:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
What do all you bible thumpers have to say to this? Nothing, because you are unable to think for yourselves. What a pity.
They will respond with. That part of the bible doesn’t apply any longer.
As they’re handing over $75 a week into their Pastor’s Corvette fund…I mean “collection”. He tells them not to vote for it so they don’t.
sheeple is my new word love it
Religion is not the problem. The misuse and manipulation of religion are indeed problems, however.
My church ordains qualified clergy regardless of their sex or their sexual orientation, and we encourage our clergy to officiate at same-sex marriages on the same basis that they would officiate at opposite-sex marriages. We also participate in the Religious Coalition Against Discrimination, which is allied with Equality Maine and Mainers United For Marriage in supporting same-sex marriage in Maine. You can see by reading the article that there are many churches and clergy who support fairness and equal treatment, and believe that prejudice is wrong.
Leviticus is in the old testament, according to the NT the laws of the OT no longer apply. To say that Christians can not think for themselves is pitiful. You argue that gay marriage is a natural and normal thing, while others disagree with you, I call that life.
what you call life, I call hateful, harmful bigotry…. not at all Christian…. that this bigotry is promoted by anyone and cloaked under the veil of religion is, in my opinion a disgrace…
that anyone should be able to interfere with anyone else’s private life is to say the least, overreach ..
believe what you will, be a bigot, be hateful, be on the wrong side of history.. you have plenty of company for this ugliness.
I think you misunderstood what lisa parent was saying.
Perhaps, however I do not believe that characterizing bigotry as ‘that’s life’ is a helpful, compassionate or helpful perspective or comment. I believe that it supports the prejudice. Of course I believe in free speech, but when I see it to be harmful, then I will say so.
Please tell me where I am off the mark. Thanx in advance.
You may have been right about lisa — I may have misread her comment. My apology!
:-)
not at all…. I have respect for what you say and admiration for your unfailing patience ..
Partly correct, but mostly wrong. If you are going to use the Bible as the basis for your actions (and prejudices), it would help if you knew what is says and doesn’t say.
There are about 6 verses in the entire Bible (out of 31,1002 total verses) that say anything at all about homosexuality. That makes it one of the very smallest issues in the Bible. Much more important are the large sections of the Bible that tell us to love our neighbor, welcome the stranger and the outsider, and seek justice for the person whose rights are denied.
Christians generally DO believe the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible is valid. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t include it as part of our Bible. In fact, it is about two-thirds of the Christian Scriptures.
However, the Levitical laws, a small part of the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament, that say that eating shellfish, cutting your beard, eating pork, getting a tattoo, etc., are abominations are an ancient “holiness code” that the Apostle Paul says has been replaced by the law of love. It is that holiness code (found mostly in Leviticus), and not the entire Hebrew Bible/Old Testament, that is no longer necessary.
The verses that say two men having sex is an abomination (like eating shellfish, such as lobster) are part of that Levitical law. Fundamentalists and Evangelicals are being inconsistent when they reject all of that holiness code except when they quote the verses that talk about men having sex with other men.
In the New Testament, Paul uses the Greek words “malakoi” (literally “soft”) and “arsenokoitai” (literally “male-bed”). We don’t actually know what Paul meant by these words, or exactly what they meant to his listeners and readers. Some modern Bibles use the English word “homosexual” to translate these words, but, in fact, ancient biblical Greek and biblical Hebrew had no word for “homosexual,” and so any Bible that uses that word in English has been mistranslated.
Paul was more likely disapproving of male prostitution and the exploitation of children. He also said that everyone has fallen short of God’s glory.
As Jesus said, “Do not judge, lest you be judged.” Jesus never preached against sexual practices, but he told us to take the log our of our own eye before we try to take the speck out of our neighbor’s eye.
” Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who
need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their
noses in other people’s business.” -Jesse Ventura, Former Governor of Minnesota.
Good to see you are using a deep thinker like Jesse for a source. Good grief.
withdrawn by the author.
I won’t classify myself as a great mind, but will refer you to others.
Ravi Zacharias, Gleason Archer, RC Sproul, to name three, would probably fall into your classification of “Bible thumpers”. I suggest that you read their writings. You might disagree with them, and that is certainly your right. But I think you’d agree that they are thoughtful and insightful as well. They’re first class minds.
You are entitled to your opinions; I respect that. Calling everyone who takes the Bible seriously “sheeple”, however, does not warrant respect. I’ll treat you respectfully, while deploring your position, respectfully.
One question: is it possible that those who aren’t “Bible Thumpers” could ever fall into “sheeple-hood?” Just asking………..
Maybe it isn’t ‘right’ for you but who are you to tell someone else it isn’t right for them?
Prejudice is a sin.
I’m going to play devil’s advocate.
Is racism wrong? How about pedophilia? How about domestic violence?
I know it is a loaded question, but it is one you have to deal with.
Those are ALL against the laws of this country genius (and what any of that has to do with two Americans who want to get married is beyond me)…..NEWS FLASH being gay is not against the law in this country…..and don’t tell me it’s against god’s law because I have yet to see god show up in a court of law to offer ‘expert’ testimony on anything. And don’t tell me it’s in the bible- because ALSO in the bible is pro-slavery (gee it that wrong?) pro-rape ( gee is that wrong?) pro-child abuse (is that wrong?) pro-torture (gee is that wrong) pro-misogyny (is that wrong?) pro-murder (gee is that wrong?) and the ridiculous list goes on and on.
If YOU do not believe in gay marriage – then don’t YOU get gay married, but YOU have no right to impose YOUR narrow minded beliefs on any OTHER American citizen and tell said American citizen that THEY can’t get married because YOU don’t want them to. THAT’S JUST BIGOTED and MYOPIC.
No one who is gay and who wants to get married is stopping you or anyone else from doing anything you want to do or don’t want to do in your life and why it’s any of your or anyone else’s business what someone else does or doesn’t do in their life (such as getting married) which does not affect you in anyway…thus IT’S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. and don’t tell me it’s your business because we have to vote on it again…..last time I checked we weren’t supposed to have to vote on civil rights for fellow Americans…..that’s why they call them RIGHTS.
Thanks for proving both of my points.
1) You’re nasty. The proof is in your response, calling me “genius.”
2) You are saying that some things are wrong. Who are you to say that anything is wrong? That was your question to someone else.
By the way – gay marriage is also against the law, in most states.
The Bible is pro-rape? I know the Bible fairly well, and that is a new one on me. Is it pro-slavery, or does it just deal with the issue as it exists at that time?
You need new lines of reasoning, as yours are dead on arrival. Your arguments are collapsing of their own weight.
If you really are interested in meaningful dialogue, you need to tone it down. You are ranting as badly as the folks you disagree with.
One more thing: I have the courage to post against the prevailing politically correct tide, using my commonly used name. If you want me to take you seriously, come out from behind the moniker.
1.) I’m nasty because I tell the truth and happen to disagree with your narrow minded, uneducated (i.e. clearly not a genius) opinion….so I can live quite well with you thinking I’m nasty. Boo hoo. Pfffffffft.
2.) YOU asked if racism, pedophilia and domestic violence was ‘wrong’- I said those things you asked about were against the laws of this country and the REASON they are illegal is because racism, pedophilia and domestic violence all have to do with violating or preventing someone else of their rights. Are you obtuse enough to not believe that there are people sitting at home right now who hate black people simply because they are black? Of course there are people like that and those people are free to be as bigoted and uneducated as they want – so long as those beliefs do not infringe upon anyone else’s rights to exist (say like the black people they hate for being black) as it would be illegal with people who rape OTHER people or pedophiles who molest OTHER people.
Exactly how does gay marriage infringe upon anyone else’s ability to exist or carry on in their everyday lives? It doesn’t- anymore than anyone else’s decision to get married does. The people who try to prevent other American’s from getting married simply because they are gay are the oppressors and the one’s who are infringing and preventing their fellow Americans from their civil rights and that’s wrong. No one goes to jail for attempting to get married in any myopic state which does not allow gay marriages to take place….slight difference between racism, domestic violence and pedophilia.
FYI there have been many things that were ‘illegal’ in this country that have become legal due to rulings of SCOTUS due to certain state’s majorities being bigoted and unwilling to allow their fellow countrymen/women equal rights under the law and that’s what this is about the LAW not god. I have no doubt that at some point SCOTUS will rule in favor of gay marriage in this country as it did with the; 13th Amendment, 14th Amendment, Brown V. Board of Education, Reed V. Reed, Anti-miscegenation laws, 19th Amendment etc. and when that happens (just as it has historically in this country) people like you will be relegated as nothing more than obsolete and antiquated. I can’t wait.
So if I am hearing you correctly, it is OK for you to be nasty, because you are telling me “the truth”. Is that what you said?
So, as soon as I catch you in a falsehood or an inconsistency, will you jump up and praise me if I start a blistering rant against you?
Go back and take a long, hard look at the tone of your post. I can tell you in all honesty that I have several gay/lesbian friends. When I show them this, they’ll have a quick opinion on which of us is the “hater.”
The really sad part is that there are three people (so far) that actually liked your insensate rant.
But I forget, I am obviously an uneducated ignoramus.
I am interested to know the point of your exercise on this thread.
Many of the folks that are so upset about poor treatment of one group are treating others very badly.
TLMMSW is assuming that everyone should just automatically agree with him/her; if they do not, then obviously they have some sort of mental deficiency, are a bigot, or are just plain evil.
If that passes for serious debate on a serious topic, then things are truly dire indeed.
I see, you simply wish to argue. I have responded to you below if you are interested in my thoughts. I will add here that your characterizing the heated comments on this issue as an example of the ‘dire’ state of things is dismissive. This issue is quite a bit more complex then you seem to understand. You seem to have no understanding of the history of what our gay citizens have lived through. Reading your posts I see that this is an intellectual exercise for you and that your interest is in an apologia for your position. I see you as not at all well meaning. I see you as narrow minded. I hope that time and experience will expand your perspective.
Hmm. I don’t see anything in your post that leads to mutual discussion.
I am responding to comments that called everyone who disagrees on SSM “nimwits.”
I won’t argue further with you.
Anyone, and I mean anyone, is free to post out here and have an opinion. When I called TMMLSW, or whatever that moniker is, it was on the tenor of their post.
The issues are not “too complex” for me. You are falling into the same trap of name-calling that the other poster did.
Is it your opinion that only one side is allowed to post?
Excellent point usegoodsense- and it is a lost cause to attempt to have a logical chat with Warren (i.e. buddy) because he feels picked on if one does not concur with his myopic opinion.
You’re hilarious – as if somehow you having ‘gay friends’ makes your bigotry against your fellow gay Americans who want to get married ok. You’re no different that the white people who didn’t want black people to have their civil rights and justified that bigotry by saying ‘but I have have black friends.’ Or no different than the white men who didn’t want women to vote -but hey there were ‘married to a woman’ so that should count for something. News Flash – It doesn’t count and what’s more -it’s nothing more than a cop out and a pathetic one at that.
Bottom line ‘Buddy’ you and the rest of the sheeple use the bible as a weapon to disenfranchise and justify your unchristian behavior that is directed toward your fellow American citizens who are gay and who wish to marry the person they love. Stop deflecting YOUR nasty and hateful agenda by trying to make this about me- this is about equal protection under the law for ALL American citizens who want to marry. So do attempt to stay on topic as your last rant didn’t mention anything about the topic of gay marriage.
Hmm. It seems the only argumentation you know how to use is calling people bigots.
I’m no different than a lot of bad guys in the past? You’ve called me uneducated; you’ve called me sheeple (sorry, but I don’t know the singular form for sheeple). You are calling me unchristian. You’re also the one mentioning all the stuff that I haven’t said.
It seems to me that I’ve been the one trying to lead you away from your rants and name-calling.
You made it about everyone who disagrees with you. You, and only you, are the one who began by using the term “nimwits.”
The topic that I have called you on *never was gay marriage*. It was your abusiveness posting in a public forum.
If you are going to do it in that fashion, at least have the decency to sign your real name to it, and quit hiding.
I have only one negative word for you: coward.
Yet again off topic Warren. The topic is equal protection under the law and for the record Warren I do not care whatever names you call me – as you are of no consequence to me. I have no desire to get into a urinating contest with someone who has clearly an endless supply of urine. Spend more time worrying about you Warren and what you do or don’t do in life and less time worrying about what I do or don’t do. Get over yourself Warren, as I am done feeding the troll. Pfffffffft.
Wonderful argumentation. You got off subject, missed the point, blamed me, and were nasty.
And anonymous.
No one that disagrees with you is of any consequence to you.
Read what you’ve written! Is that who you are, or want to be?
You are the one who kept using the “nimwit” term. You are an anonymous coward.
Yes, unfortunately, the Bible is pro-slavery — for instance, Leviticus 25:44-46 says, “As for your male and female slaves whom you may have, you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are round about you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over the other with harshness.”
Exodus 21:7 gives the rules by which you may sell your daughter into slavery.
You say, perhaps, that these quotes are in the Old Testament, yet we put the Old Testament into our Bibles because we believe God’s word is constant.
And if you go to the New Testament you will find that Paul says, “Slaves, be obedient to your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ.” Ephesians 6:5.
“Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in ever respect” Titus 2:9.
And there are more passages that I do not have time to cite as it is supper time.
Nowhere does the Bible condemn slavery; everywhere in the Bible it is the accepted practice. Since we know slavery to be wrong, we might ask ourselves why the Bible always approves of slavery and never condemns it.
What does the Bible have to say to masters of slaves, and how might that impact the decision that followers of Christ might someday make with regard to slavery?
It took a long time to rid the world of the evil of slavery. No argument from me. But where did the impetus to end it get much of its momentum, especially in Britain and in America?
News Flash Buddy- slavery still exists in this world……and where is the impetus to end the slavery which still exists?
I didn’t say it didn’t exist.
In fact, most of your ranting about what I said, I never said at all. You just assumed that I said it.
So when you stated ‘It took a long time to rid the world of the evil of slavery’ how does that statement in any way imply that slavery still exists? Well of course if you believe the world only revolves around the United States and Great Britain I guess you would think that slavery was none existent Warren.
May I address your three questions? Victims. Victims. Victims.
SSM? No victims. Just two consenting adults.
There’s your answer.
says you, I say baloney to your hateful heart and mouth…
The Rev. Emrich can have his “Biblical marriage” for himself and those who agree with him but why should he and his like-minded friends define marriage for anyone else? Marriage has always been a state sanctioned institution available to eligible citizens regardless of faith. It is up to society, not any church, to extend the same basic right to gay and lesbian partners.
Biblical marriage was generally a financial arrangement — one man and as many women as he can afford. You probably wouldn’t want a real Biblical family living next door to you if you could avoid it.
The unofficial rule has always been Government doesn’t get involved with Churches, Churches won’t get involved with Government. That doesn’t apply to this issue apparently. Whatever, enjoy your tax exemption.
Good news with this, it will not pass, it hasn’t in the past and it still will not.
Eventually fairness and equal treatment will triumph — probably this time. Prejudice cannot continue to win forever. Eventually the American people do the right thing, after they have tried all of the other possibilities.
Blah , blah , blah…It will be the same result as last time…
What an outstanding convergence. Churches, Father’s Day, hatred.
How can you say that about your neighbors? That by merely existing, by being gay, you’re attacking families? It’s just so ridiculous and disgusting. They should be ashamed of themselves.
And worse, this Emrich guy is the one who travels to Africa and pushes legislation there that severely punishes individuals who are gay. He’s not a good guy and certainly not a man of God.
http://facebook.com/protectmarriagemaine Marriage is not the invention of government. It is a pre-legal institution and has existed since the beginning of civilization in every known society. Proponents of homosexual “marriage” have yet to prove that children, families and society will benefit from redefining it. People have a right to live as the choose, they DON’T have the right to REDEFINE marriage for all of us.
I’m curious.
What is a “pre-legal institution” and can you identify some others?
Where did you encounter this term?
Then give up the legal rights and protections that come along with it.
What better way to degrade our Gay Fathers here in Maine. Nuf’ said.
At the risk of oversimplifying the obvious, it appears that the common thread which binds the dull fabric of rebellion waged against the institution of marriage and the family is an overwhelming desire to elevate the creature above the Creator. Looking around, it’s quite possible that we have arrived at that appointed hour when “men (anthropologically speaking) will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power.”
At the risk of getting a little off topic…
For all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of god. Rom 3:23Judge not, that ye not be judged. Mat 7: 1Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Luke 6:31And last, but most certainly not least,There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. Mark 7:15Maybe, just maybe, you should learn to become more Christlike in your endeavors. As far as I am aware Jesus never once preached hate or bigotry.
I’m for fairness and equal treatment under the law — giving same-sex couples the same treatment under the law that I already have — because I’m a Christian and because I believe in marriage.
Marriage is a good thing. It is good for society. It promotes fidelity, family stability, and mutual love and commitment. If these things are good for straight couples, they are also good for gay couples and lesbian couples. It does not hurt me if other people get married — in fact, it is good for society if other people get married.
My wife and I have been married for 33 years. We know that we always need to keep working at our relationship, but the fact that we are legally married has helped us to stay together for better for worse, in sickness and in health. We want others to have the same benefits and freedoms that we have.
How does getting married threaten marriage? You say that people who want to get married are against the institution of marriage. Can’t you see how bizarre your statement sounds? How does getting married hurt marriage?
I’m for marriage, but it sounds as though you don’t really trust marriage. You are trying to stop people from getting married, and you say you want to prevent people from getting married because you are for marriage. How weird is that?
Those of us who support the freedom to marry are the ones who are Mainers United For Marriage. I will vote for marriage — and for the freedom to marry — in November.
Please the Lord and all his bigoted Christian followers!
It’s a slap in the face to my partner and all other gay fathers.
Is that why people are leaving the church in droves? Can you point out the passage(s) from your bible that say “Hate all those you deem unclean” or “People who are not like you are not people.”
“I like your Christ. I do not like your christians, they are so unlike your Christ.” Gandhi
“ We have intentionally chosen Father’s Day
to emphasize the stark differences between those who support Biblical
marriage and those who are attempting to redefine marriage,”
By “Biblical marriage” do you mean “one man and 35 women” or “one man and whatever slaves he has captured”?
biblical marriage hum, I was married 43 years ago in a friends living room by a justice of the peace, so I am guessing I do not have a biblical marriage( no religion involved), just a successful one.
Not being based in religion is likely why it is a successful one.
They never address that.
I was at my church yesterday where, during our service, we honored our fathers and other men who had an impact on our lives. We honored love. What did Emrich’s church honor?
get yourself some help
How is getting married a ‘special right?’ What’s so ‘special’ about getting to do what any other American can already do? Seems to me the people who want the ‘special rights’ are the people who don’t want their fellow Americans to have EQUAL RIGHTS and that’s just pathetic.
…
Why do you link child abduction to gays. Not all straight people are pedifiles but some are. By the way how many children do you know who were raised by gay parents. You are assuming about a subject you know nothing about. As someone who has been married for 33 years how can you say I am against marriage, and again how will gay marriage hurt my marriage only two people can do that. This comment was to timjy posted wrong
Of course two gays shouldn’t by law be allowed to marry. As everyone knows, our understanding of equity and societal norms is perfectly refined today, and at no time will they change. My understanding is that Jim Crow was, and continues to be, wildly successful.
aren’t these churches in danger of losing their tax exempt status when they get involved in politics?
No. Churches have a right to speak out on what they believe are moral and ethical issues.
They cannot endorse candidates or political parties, but they can suggest a “yes” or “no” vote on a referendum question such as this one, because taking a moral stand is a freedom of religion (and freedom of speech) issue.
My own church and pastor are supporting same-sex marriage. The Religious Coalition Against Discrimination, mentioned in the article, is a statewide organization of churches, pastors, and rabbis who support the freedom of same-sex couples to marry. The article makes it clear that there are churches on both sides of this issue.
Since the beginning of time, “marriage” consisted of the purchase of a virgin, willing or unwilling, for a negotiated number of sheep, goats or cattle, and sometimes gold. The practice continues today. Since the beginning of time, man has practiced polygamy. Joshua had 2 wives and a concubine and Abraham had 2 to 5 wives, yet both were beloved by God. And these Christians, who allow serial marriages in clear violation of the bible claim that the gay people are redefining marriage??
A warning to anyone who dares to post in this public forum, and questions the tenor of some of the posters. Don’t expect many “likes”, and expect lots of disrespect from the anonymous.
The prevailing politically correct views, especially, are above any kind of questioning. Those who post them often, not always, but often, disguise the vitriol by use of less demeaning language, but it is often still insulting.
And my hat is off to those who hold the prevailing view, but do it with some modicum of respect for others. You are too rare. But I appreciate you, even if I disagree.
So if you disagree, no matter how respectfully, thoughtfully, clearly, or logically, be prepared to be called just about anything.
After all, how could we have opposing views in a democratic republic?
Respectful disagreement or debate is welcomed. Anonymous name calling – well, it goes with the territory, I guess. Such are the times.
Warren Spaulding
aka, “Disgusted with the Tenor of too Many of these Posts”
I was VERY, VERY glad to find out the church I go to did not participate in this. Probably because our church is neither full of perfect people nor claims to be. Anyone who comes through the door will sense God’s love yet also hear the truth as we see it; but NEVER with condemnation.
Actually, true Christians follow the Bible teachings and it is explicit in the Bible that homosexuality in practice is immoral and against God. It says this in the Old and New Testament several times. There is no sugar-coating any of it. Those Christians who do not support traditional marriage are IN TRUTH going against God in order to follow their own will. They are NOT following God’s will. The Bible says it quite clearly. Sadly, people will continue to follow immorality and evil in this century and pretend they are religious. But when they face God, they will know the Truth.
As Mr. Spaulding said so well: “Don’t expect many “likes”, and expect lots of disrespect from the anonymous.” I am respectful of my gay friends and they are respectful of me and my views. Have way too many faults myself without worrying if John is sleeping with Jill or Jim. Just have to be careful what I’m doing; or not doing. Think that’s why the Bible says, “Work out YOUR salvation with fear and trembling.” :)
Catholics who support same-sex marriage are NOT practicing Catholics. The Church explicitly forbids same-sex marriage, so those pretending to be walking in the Pride event as Catholics are NOT representive of Catholics who follow the teachings of the Church. Shame on those who pretend, using the name of the Church to push their own immoral agenda.