Before Maine possibly alters its constitution to bar certain eminent domain takings of private property, it should make sure that the changes would fix a real problem and not simply appease residents in the area of a possible east-west highway.
That is, if Gov. Paul LePage’s recent agreement to delay a study of the highway and Sen. Doug Thomas’ proposal to modify the constitution do not signify the end of the project entirely.
It’s understandable for Mainers to be skeptical about whether an east-west highway can be built without forcing anyone to sell their property. What would happen to the massive proposed 220-mile highway if one person decided not to sell?
So we understand the need expressed by Thomas, a Republican from Ripley, to look into a way to prevent people from being compelled to give up their land.
As the project is proposed now, the road would be built with private funding, and private companies do not have the power of eminent domain. Eminent domain refers to the government’s power to take private property for public use.
But could the government use its power of eminent domain to take people’s land and then allow a private company to construct the highway on it? It’s not likely.
Any use of eminent domain would require some complicity from the government. In such a charged situation, and with LePage’s emphasis on the rights of property owners, would any elected official dare support taking someone’s land to sell to a developer?
Maine’s history says no. In 2005, the U.S. Supreme Court decision Kelo v. City of New London, Conn., recognized the right of governments to take property by eminent domain for the purpose of economic development, even if the taken property was not blighted.
The case stirred debate and legislative backlash across the country, including in Maine, where nine bills were filed to restrict the use of eminent domain.
One, L.D. 1870, was passed to prohibit the use of eminent domain “for the purposes of private retail, office, commercial, industrial or residential development.” It also prohibited using eminent domain authority to condemn property “for transfer to a person, nongovernmental entity, public-private partnership, corporation or other business entity.”
The bill passed even though a survey of municipalities by the Maine Municipal Association, about whether they had used eminent domain within the previous five years, showed that none had taken occupied residential property.
Aside from legal questions, Peter Vigue, chairman of Cianbro Corp. in Pittsfield, has said over and over that his company would work with property owners to make sure they are willing sellers. He has repeatedly said eminent domain will not be used and that if even one person doesn’t sell, the road won’t be built.
If eminent domain will not be used — whether because it’s a legal, moral or political impossibility — we’d like to know how all the necessary land will be acquired for the project. If it can’t be acquired, the east-west highway project is dead anyway.
Vigue has said many times that the goal of an east-west highway is to bring economic prosperity to the region, but a positive local effect will need to be shown in greater detail before residents will believe it. It would be helpful to have an economic benefits study completed by a neutral party, but it doesn’t make sense to pay $300,000 for it if the road isn’t going to be built.
LePage will have to make clear to Mainers how the road is possible without eminent domain. If it’s not possible, he and Vigue could instead put their energy into another project that clearly supports residents first and fulfills the goal of the highway: economic development.
Have we forgotten the Main Street Shaws in Bangor?
People implicitly recognize this thing won’t help Mainers.
It’s a Canadian Turnpike.
If built, in 3 years it will be a symbol of waste and deception.
.
YA.
Nobody in Maine will benefit from this.
Those workers that build it, maintain it, and use it will probably just waste their earnings on food, clothing, medical care and such.
Better to just urge all in rural Maine to move to the urban areas and sign up for a government cheque.
You are flat out WRONG…The long term deficit in revenue for local buisness created by the “fly over” of the highway far out weigh the short term gains for those local buisness from revenue generated from hiway workers.
And don’t forget that this “Canadian Turnpike” is also a “Utility Corridor” (per Peter Vigue) for a future unspecified use. Most likely a Trojan Horse for a Tar Sands Pipeline.
see: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/14/science/earth/canada-seeks-new-ways-to-get-oil-reserves-to-market.html?_r=2&emc=eta1
Just think of it as the South East Extension of the Trans-Canada Highway.
LD 1870 Excludes Roads , Utilities, ect, and the Private , Public , Partnership statute would “allow” for Eminent Domain for this highway/ utilities corridor. Vigue’s promise is Empty and Doug Thomas’s plan to change the Constitution is dangerous!
Eminent Domain has it’s place, when we TRULY have a need, it needs to be available. Not for PRIVATE use or for a Canadian Highway extension but for the common good of Maine and the United States.
Beware Doug Thomas’s plan to change the constitution, it is a double edged sword, not only may it bar the use of eminent domain for the taking of land to complete Vigues Private road but also for the state to take land for a “Public Road” that he may have already lined up for HIS plan..
It has already been proven that by the Private / Public Partnershp statute that private entities are quite articulate at writing laws to suit their own personal needs!
Beware, Beware, Beware,
Doug Thomas is uncertainly a proponent of this private highway fiasco and changing the constitution may not be in the publics best interest but in the powers interest that want this Highway to be in Private hands!
beware,beware, beware….some poeple havent the slightest idea what they are talking about and will cut down and denagrate good people because….they can…..
Clearly there will be no ’eminent domain’ here….news flash….there is a road here already….you cant take property for the public good in this situation because a road is already there….dont be fooled by this distraction, it doesn’t exist and Cianbro would not use the eminent domain process, as it would be business suicide….
Maine people better stand up to there environmental bullies who dont even live in Maine. Maine will never have a better company to build this project. Honest and has great integrity….unlike the other groups who are standing up against this project with wild accusations that have absolutely no basis in science, law or financial reality.
If nothing stuck to the wall when you threw it into a fan, people wouldn’t do it anymore…
You are right, ” some poeple havent the slightest idea what they are talking about”
You proved your point!
The Highway Privitazation Act requires Maine to assist Cianbro in the land acquisition as well as surrendering all sovereignty to the land’s acquired, both criminal, civil and administrative. Since Cianbro’s people wrote the Act why miss the opportunity to make Maine a dumb ‘patsy’ when it comes to doing the inevitable dirty work under the Kelo decision that Vigue’s Crisis Team is going to point out is needed. After all, if you wrote the rule’s, it’s easy to interpret them anyway you want, correct ? Now if Vigue and Thomas want to state, publicly and for the formal record, that Cianbro’s not going to take Maine to court to force Maine, under a Writ of Mandemus, to acquire land that Cianbro can’t get thru legitimate land purchase negotiation, fine. Do it. Just go on the record and make it a public statement and then we can all sleep.
That or we can all sit tight, see that supposed $ 300,000.– K go right down the toilet for a study that’s already all but written to benefit Cianbro (Research contractor’s know who butter’s their bread !), and see what happens next January when a new, and you can bet the farm, fully fired up and cranky Legislature go back and start pulling apart the Act, and all of the so-called ‘Independent Study’s’, and see just what and how this whole thing came about and who had their finger’s in the piggy bank. Both Thomas and LePage know full well, Thomas especially, that once the Act is taken apart and the various legislative procedures and safeguard’s are found to have been deliberately ignored or bypassed thru manipulation that the ‘ripple effect’ is gonna start. Surfing in this case is not a healthy type of exercise. Jumping ship and walking away is far more beneficial, and safer, in the long run.
“The Highway Privitazation Act requires Maine to assist Cianbro in the
land acquisition as well as surrendering all sovereignty to the land’s
acquired, both criminal, civil and administrative.”
Another silly bit of amateur speculating by Mr. Kiernan. If the Privatization Act means that the jurisdiction of all Maine law is surrendered under the Act (criminal, civil and administrative) within the land acquired for the roadway, then the Act itself would be null and void.
I guess this means any murderer who wants to get away with killing someone will be luring people to the highway where no laws can touch the suspect, right Mike? LOL
Once the Highway land is turned over to Cianbro, by the terms of the Act, that land is now legally under Cianbro’s control. Does that mean that Maine law no longer apply’s ? You bet it does. Read the Act like a defense lawyer and you are in for a very nasty surprise. But it DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE LAND IS BEYOND THE FED’S REACH, NO. Since the land’s State sovereignty is within the 48 States, and the land’s National sovereignty was not surrendered by the Fed’s, that land is still subject to Federal Law and jurisdiction. The CBP folk’s, who are probably gonna get stuck with this, already have a legal authority to use on the Highway, that being 18 USC 13, the Assimilative Crimes Act, that will enable them to act when they come across or are called to a scene that has something happen on it that’s not covered under Federal Code. And if you think this is a mess now, just wait till an accident happens and a tanker spill happens. You folk’s thought Maine DEP was a PITA, wait until the EPA gets here. This whole Highway Act was a mess from jump 1 and it’s getting worse by the day.
And no, the Act is not null and void since the State is the one surrendering sovereignty. Maine did it and now they are gonna have to live with it, for the moment. And as far as a murder being committed on the Highway, once the land, if it ever, goes to Cianbro , the murder is going to have to be investigated by the Fed’s since Maine has no jurisdiction. That means either the FBI or the US Marshal’s office in Bangor. Can the Fed’s investigate and cede jurisdiction to the State if they find that ANY PART OF THE CRIME OCCURED OUTSIDE OF THE HIGHWAY ? They sure can and do it all the time out West. Happens a lot on the Tribal Land’s since the boundaries are so crazy. This has a long way to go but the end is already written. It’s just time now……
“Does that mean that Maine law no longer apply’s ? You bet it does.”
First, I don’t see anywhere in the Act that a statement is made that the State gives up all criminal, civil and administrative sovereignty over land. Anyone who owns a piece of land in Maine is still governed by Maine law. If you disagree, then please point out the article in the law which supports your claim.
Second, even if the feds have sole jurisdiction in the absence of state jurisdiction, then the state of anarchy that you claim as the future of an EW Highway is still utterly ridiculous.
“And no, the Act is not null and void since the State is the one surrendering sovereignty.”
The state passes a law that nullifies all state laws in a particular territory. How then is anyone going to be bound by the law that nullifies all laws? Hahahahaha! Mike, you’re a peach. Hopefully, nobody decides to hire you to defend them in a court of law.
Mr. Kiernan’s posts reminds me of “Highway Zero!” from Manuel “Spain” Rodriguez’s TRASHMAN comix. You could look it up…
Cat, you’re so right…
Read the Act, it’s all there. If you don’t, out of either laziness or spite, then you have no one but yourself to blame.
I’ve read the Act several times, and nowhere have I seen anything approaching the silly claim that Maine will forego all sovereignty over Maine land. Show us.
You are wrong.
November 6, 2012: DUMP DOUG
Senate District 27 can only move backward to have someone other than Senator Thomas. He lives and breathes this district and if you think someone else would be more committed to the people of this district, you have been fooled…
Thats like saying “dump private insurance for gov’t insururance…..its like saying dump private auto makers for gov’t automakers…..its like saying dump private banks for gov’t banks”…all three proven to be really bad ideas.
Senator Thomas is a hard working Mainer who knows exactly what its like to be a taxpayer and business owner….
I’ve spoken with Mr. Thomas. I don’t think he listens to anyone. He’s got all the answers, at least he thinks he does. I say dump him too.
You actually got to speak with him? Huh. We got hung up on.
Sounds like Rector! His strings go right to LePages office.
I would suggest that it is you who has been fooled. The feasibility study that is now on hold has nothing to do with examining the benefits of the E-W corridor for the people of Maine. It is an “investment grade” study. It looks at projected costs and income to rate the project for investors who are considering it for their portfolios. Sen. Thomas is either catering to the corporations at our expense or he has been fooled by them. Either way, he won’t get my vote in November.
If they are allowed to use eminent domain to take peoples property, it is time to physically throw Maine Government out in the streets, stripping them of all there rights to pensions, health care and anything else!
Kello v New London gives
lie to your editorial. The Supreme Court of the United States clearly ruled
that States and even municipal entities have the power to take land from a
private citizen, and transfer that land to other private entities. The
“public good” that the eminent domain clause is based on, in the
Kello Case is that the Condominiums which replace the private homes will pay
more in taxes.
The Maine constitution
DEFINITLY needs to be revised to stop this type of “taking” FURTHER
it should be incumbent on any government entity to be sure that all takings are
necessary. To that end, when taking private property in a hostile manner,
governments should be forced to pay double fair market value.
Wrong!
Governments should not have the power to take property from one individual to give to another individual UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES period.
The payback made to Kelo by New London was that the condos were never built because of Phizer’s plans being changed, leaving the confiscated property OFF the tax rolls or at a very reduced rate, and all the homes and families of the neighborhood gone.
But what was affirmed by the Court was that while the eminent domain provision’s were legal, for them to be fully legal and complied with the State would have to pay the FAIR MARKET VALUE of the property being seized as called for under the 4th Amendment. The city of New London had to go out and float a Bond issue to pay for this simply because they didn’t think it thru before they moved. NL was banking on the land being redeveloped in time for the property tax bills to be paid and cover the Bond’s Interest and Principal issued. That didn’t happen and NL literally got caught with it’s fianancial keester in the wind. Now the land is just sitting there and NL is almost desperate to get anyone in there to develop the land, just so they can get it off the municipal property roll’s. Kelo is a VERY big double edged sword. Whoever uses it had better be dammed sure that they understand just what they are getting into, and what the total requirements are. New London got ‘cute’ in their thinking and tried to bully their citizen’s. Instead they got caught with their ‘short’s’ in the wind and have no way to pull’em back in.
Oh, and to be sure we are all on the same page, look at Connecticut’s business tax rate’s since the current Governor, who was New London’s Mayor at the time, was elected. You think business’s are running from Maine, look at Connecticut’s business index. When business’s go to Massachussets to get away from Connecticut tax’s, my friend, there is an abject lesson in just what happens when Government begins to think it’s smarter than it’s citizen’s. Connecticut is gonna pay for a very long time for their foolishness, if not outright arrogance, of assuming they knew better than their own citizen’s. It’s a lesson that Maine should be learning from, not walking into………
I must be losing my ability to communicate I said “the consittution needs to be revised to STOP this type (Kello) of taking.”
A 220-mile limited access highway stretching across Maine from St. Stephen, N.B. to Coburn Gore in Western Maine.
The exact route is hidden from public view. Proponents slow push for highway, after leaving bad taste in mouths of those about to lose their homes, farms, land, and communities. The miracle team says it can construct a highway without using eminent domain to take homes, farms, land, and communities.How?
Hey Peter… this thing is causing a lot on noise .. no much of it seems positve.. might be time to 1. give it a better explaination with more guarantees 2. pull back a bit until there is a good plan to gain support…. not sure if this campaign helps or hurts your Co. you decide that.. nice to see that you are doing well and in the fight.. 69……….
There is Supreme Court precedent for cases like this. Poletown versus GM. Poletown lost.
The State of Maine can purchase this land under eminent domain. The big thing with law is, all that really matters is interpretation and precedent.
Cianbro is a big company with plenty of money to “sway” the politicians. But, they will have to look upward to see the Mainers that they will be mowing over to get what they want. I do not believe they have big enough bulldozers to do that.They might have met their match. Let’s hope so.
How about either instead of building a brand new highway you use the money to fix up the roads we already have or put the money into the railroads which we already have
Could the State take your land or house for a private road? An excellent question and if you take the time to think it through the answer is scary. Laws are made by politicians and as we all know trusting a politician is like trusting a rattle snake. It doesn’t make any difference if its a liberal or conservative they will sell you out in a heartbeat, most of the times money is involved, what a shocker that is. If a doctor told you you needed an operation but wouldn’t tell you why, where he would make the incision or the desired result would be you would question it. We aren’t supposed to question Mr. Vigue apparently. We are just supposed to take his word that everything will be fine and no one will be forced out of their property.
He’s never lied to me……..
That you know of!
LOL
“We are just supposed to take his word that everything will be fine and no one will be forced out of their property.”
And thats why the whole thing is falling apart!
People know better than to take his word that eminent domain won’t be used when there is a Law that clearly allows for it!
Another cruel fact of life. Alot of noise but in the end the big guys will get their way & the small homeowners who are minding their own business, working hard to survive will lose.
land near a highway is more valuable.
If you think the government will not take private property to enrich corporate interests just ask the farmers and ranchers in TX who have had their property stolen for the Keystone pipeline. The pipeline is still being built BTW.
Do not trust LePage and his Tea Party crew.
They are bullies and do not care about Maine people.
They will take what they want.
Yessah
I work for Cianbro, I was unemployed for 3 years as I lived in Millinocket. Cianbro has been very good to me and I fully support their idea! Mr. Vigue recognizes that we can’t just sit around and wait for things to fall in our lap! We have to be go getters! It will bring in more jobs and get some off the dependency of the state…. (i know this first hand) Not to mention they pay for our schooling! It’ll provide economic oppertunities, but we as Mainers have to grab these oppertunities by the horns. The grass isnt always greener on the other side… It’s usual green where you water it. We need to take charge because this state is going down the tubes. And I’m very thankful to stand behind a great leader.. Mr. Vigue truly does have us as Mainers in mind.
Any naysayers have solutions to fix the state? Mr. Vigue seems like the only Mainer who has gotten off his butt and came up with a plan to get this state in gear.
A national park in northern Maine would bring in billions and create thousands of jobs. But of course then the 35% of northen Mainers who collect goverment checks might have to go back to work.
Look, why don’t you just plant a couple of bushes in your back yard and call it good.. leave this forest management thing to people who dont want to drive the population into the ocean…Quick overview….a national park would COST Maine taxpayers (upkeep) and business (forest products industry) billions of $$ and thousands of jobs.
right now, people can visit these areas without cost, will that remain? Acadia now cost $20 to enter (7 days)..
So having 35% of all income in Northern Maine coming from goverment checks is OK with you?
Show me just one National park that is losing money for the locals who WANT to work.
As John Cleese might have said, this project is dead, deceased, no more, it has kicked the bucket, with a little help from some of its own friends. Despite much of the controversy, and assuming that some of the underlying economic assumptions wern’t totally off the mark,an E/W might well have had a positive economic impact for some of Maine’s long-suffering northern communities. However, Maine would do well to stop agonizing over this long-hyped boondoggle and focus on its existing E/W rail connections. An upgraded track could do much for the movement of Maine goods, for a whole lot less money. Warren Buffett has been investing in North-American rail for a while and he’s no fool.
Fixing up the track swould likly be a good idea but didn’t Canada just build a new line that goes around Maine for the sole purpose of avoiding the Brownsville Maine yard?
Wasn’t because of the track condition.
They didn’t want to deal with the unprofessionalism of the owner.
I remeber the issue was the yard workers at Brownsville where all Americans and the Canadians wanted to give the jobs to Canadians.
What’s to stop the Candian goverment from doing something like that on their 250 mile X 500ft wide piece of American they will own by the time this thing is over.
L. Whiteman: True, but that’s VIA RAIL’s longer line that mostly benefits Nova Scotia. Irving is a competitor and its regional interests lie mostly in NB and ME.
>LePage’s emphasis on the rights of property owners<<<<<<< Lepage's only concern has been the rights of his Canadian and Wallst backers. He has opposed anything that would help Maine in anyway that doesn't meet the approvial of the Koch bros. the PM of Quebec and the Florida Heritage sociaty.
yes, that is EXACTLY how LePage rolls and you just confirmed it…..everybody now knows its true……darrnit…..you are the mastermind of all that bubbles just beneath the surface…how the heck can we get some of these things by you without you noticing….
If
you just follow the news Lepage’s corrupt scams are plain as day.
And they are daily!
“Would the government take private property to build an east-west highway?”
-does the tin-man have a sheet-metal c@ck?
-What kind of a question is this? When have government thugs not stolen land to build their pet projects or provided land to their owners to build pet projects?
Might want to consider a name change….your radicalism ain’t free….its been costing Maine taxpayers for 30 years now….
Was this some attempt at witty humor? Doesn’t make a lick of sense…
Free Radical?….radical people with radical wacky ideas (When have government thugs not stolen land to build their pet projects or provided land to their owners to build pet projects?) This is absurd dialogue…if someones REALLY been doing this, get a bunch of people to vote thier voice….this is how this country works…..sucks if you fail, but usually it means that you were wrong when you fail……..you slam against the very people in office that have allowed this to happen….democrats are not concerned with gov’t stealing land and encourage it unless someone else comes up with the idea first, then they cry, cry, cry all the way to the press….democrats have proposed study after study after study of this project..all of a sudden republicans come up with a way to do it, for 1/10 of the cost, and that it makes private business some money and helps start new business and the state get tax revenues for many years to come and all of a sudden radicals come out of the woodwork…….radical ideas have cost hard working maine taxpayers and businesses serious cash over the last 30 years of radical rule in Maine….oh, unless your comment was some attempt at witty humor or your name relates to some type of floating or open atom or unpaired electrons….
Lots of rhetoric in your post, lots of anger, many accusations, but few facts.
“Democrats are not concerned with govt stealing land?” Actually no party has clean hands here. Origionally the Dutch French, and Spanish stole the land, then the British stole it from them. The Colonists stole it from the British, then the Spanish and the French, then the new government gave land to ranchers, stole it back, and gave it to homesteaders, , then stole some of that back to give to the railroads. Then they used tax money to put the railroads out of business when they built the interstate highway system which involved the biggest land theft since the origionalk one. Please remember that was Eisenhower’s administration. Then the government stole land from private citizens and businesses and returned it to Native Americans Not the same Native people who lost it origionally. That of course was a Nixon idea.
You say that this highway will cost 1/10th the price of former proposals? I have yet to see a firm figure, and it remains unclear what would happen to this road and its costs if for some reason the project went belly-up. My guess (although this is rhetoric too) is that the hardworking Maine taxpayer would pick up the slack.
I have lived in Maine for a good many years more than 30, Yeah we have had a few “radicals” Our current governor (for whom I voted) comes to mind. All in all I would say that Maine has been a moderate, state. George Mitchell, William Cohen, Margaret Chase Smith, and our current Senators do not make me think radical. Going back 30 years our Governors have been middle of the road. Joe Brennan, John McKernan, Angus King, and John Baldacci were not radicals. Some of them make me question their competance, but none of them urinated on the flag, or got themselves arrested in front of an abortion clinic.
What has become “radical” over the years is the cheerleading crowd. Right and left have become more so, and firmly enconsed in the idea that ANY comprimise equals weakness.
I know I am talking to the wall, but I had to counter your rant.
good luck with your anger management course.
Senate District 27 can only move backward to have someone other than Senator Thomas. He lives and breathes this district and if you think someone else would be more committed to the people of this district, you have been fooled…
He may “live and breath” his district, but that hasn’t stopped him from proposing some of the lamest bills I have ever witnessed. I would love to know who advises him.
Does it matter?…The only numbers that matter to your comments are that 80% of Maine people DID NOT vote for those who hold the same views as democrats.
One small sector of public service offers healthcare is not Gov’t health care for all….but I understand you bringing it up…because the people of Maine will go into November knowing that Gov’t healthcare will topple state economies….good thing Sen. Thomas isn’t for it. When you get into office, have at it…other than that, call or write Sen. Thomas if you have an idea thats different than the ideas of the last 30 years…bet he’ll listen to you…
That is not for sure! The gov’t healthcare isn’t the problem. It wasn’t a problem until the businessmen sent all the jobs overseas and ruining the taxbase of the middle class. don’t blame gov’t workers for getting what they always got. Funny how people don’t deny themselves benefits that they would be quick to chriticize for someone else. The problem is the few that are sucking everything from the working man! Financial Vampires.
He has called democrats ‘socialists’. He, in fact, is a socialist. He enjoys health care and a pension provided by our tax dollars.
The East / West Hiway is a bad idea…Plain and simple….
Would the government take private property to build an east-west highway? YES
One thing is for sure…it won’t be LePage’s property!