This conversation took place between a dear friend and myself some weeks ago, while we exchanged news of our lives, children and grandchildren and what was happening in our community. She is a mature and mindful grandmother, who has the best interest of family and community at heart.
Hi, Lee, it’s been hard to find you these days.
I’m on the board of the Religious Coalition Against Discrimination, working for the passage of Question 1 to allow the freedom to marry for same-sex couples.
Lee, we are good friends, but I’ve got to tell you that I am very uncomfortable with that. I think marriage is between a man and a woman. It’s always been that way.
Then, is that the way it should always be?
Well, I’m not sure. Why does it matter?
Do you think gay couples should pay higher taxes?
Of course not, that’s unfair!
Should a gay life partner have an absolute right to visitation in the hospital or to make decisions on burial if there’s no will? They don’t, you know.
Well, I don’t want that. A committed couple should have those rights without having to go to a lawyer.
If the couple adopts a child, shouldn’t they both have equal rights as next of kin so that if one parent dies, the child will not become an orphan, and the survivor will not have to fight in the courts to continue to provide that child with a stable home life?
I don’t want that, either. This is horrible! What about health insurance?
Some companies provide “family” benefits,” but many do not. It’s not required.
So being a domestic partner doesn’t really work the same as marriage?
No, it sure doesn’t! When you introduce Joe, you say he’s your husband or your spouse. You don’t say he’s “my domestic partner” or “my special friend.” Marriage and the status of being someone’s spouse are unique. It comes with honor and respect. Nobody else should get to decide whom you love and with whom you want to share your life. That should be up to the two people to decide. Not you and not me and certainly not government.
I understand, I do, but still something inside me is still uncomfortable.
Is it your religion?
No, my religion preaches unconditional love, kindness and inclusion.
So what bothers you so much —- is it about the plumbing?
Well, yes, I guess it is. But as I think about it, what we do in our bedroom is nobody’s business but ours. It’s personal, and within a marriage that’s intimate and private, just like it is for all of us. You know, I’ve never thought of myself as prejudiced, but I guess I am. I’ve just never taken the time to think this through. This issue is important and touches so many people. The way things are hurts a lot of people, and I don’t want it to be that way any more. What can I do to help?
First you’re not prejudiced, you just hadn’t really thought about it yet. I’m glad we had this conversation, and you will always be my friend. On Nov. 6, go into the voting booth and follow your heart and what you think is the right thing to do. But, before you vote, think about people you know who are living in committed, lifelong relationships, and consider that all same-sex couples want, is what we already have. No more, no less.
Lee Broder, of Cumberland Foreside, is a member of Congregation Bet Ha’am in South Portland and serves on the social action committee and board of the Religious Coalition Against Discrimination. She has been a social worker for 12 years.
I like this part: “But as I think about it, what we do in our bedroom is nobody’s business but ours. It’s personal, and within a marriage that’s intimate and private, just like it is for all of us. ”
It isn’t anyone’s business what ANYONE does in their bedroom, whether it’s hot sex action or nothing at all. What gives people the right to talk about such intimate details? Would they like it if we talked about how they have sex?
I agree completely. Has nothing to do with the issue.
Ironically, the sexual activities of homosexuals and heterosexuals aren’t very different these days, if indeed they ever were, at least according to the various studies and media reports. That doesn’t mean that anyone has to accept anyone else’s standard of what is normal or not but it does suggest that we best mind or own bedroom business and let others mind theirs.
Intolerance is the name of the game when it comes to pro-homosexual marriage people–see the headline concerning Treworgy Family Orchards, where they had a sign for vote NO on 1, but their right to freely place a sign on their property caused FB hatred to spew.
Really? You cleverly ignore all all the pro-SSM marriage people who don’t condone such hate while also ignoring the intolerance from your side of this issue.
Intolerance of the hate people spew, and the lies they tell isn’t intolerance of anything but intolerance.
It’s dishonest to call people intolerant when you condone policies and say things over and over that hurt people.
Posts on FB don’t represent everybody, and pretending that they do is childish.
You mean your intolerance for the Pro Homosexual crowd to practice their freedom of speech?
Intolerance of intolerance?
Yeah… I guess you’re OK with your cousins in the KKKlan and their intolerance too, huh?
The Treworgy family expressed their freedom of speech.
So did those who disagree with them.
That is the very nature of free speech.
KKK formed and operated by Democrats..
Yes but now run by Republicans. I’ll bet Lincoln is crying softly in his grave at what his party has become.
Yeah… The KKKlan voted for Obama..
Uh huh… Sure.
some people regard that sign the same way others regard a burning cross on the same lawn. The family has the right to have the sign, but they also need to understand that they are a business open to the public and so they are open to receiving as much criticism or praise as people can heap at them. Free speech works both ways.
You know, I’m sorry the Treworgy Orchards folks are upset, but they knew they would probably offend half of their customers by putting up that sign. The same would be true if they put up a Romney or Obama sign. I was a business owner once, and quickly learned that you don’t want to associate your business with a political campaign, unless you are prepared to offend half of your customers. Most business people are smart enough to understand this.
Fake conversation.
Why do you say that?
I’ve heard better dialogue in “D” grade movies. Reads like a bad script. I have never heard any 2 people actually have such a stilted conversation.
So, you have no evidence of what you say…
Perhaps it’s poetic license to shorten a much longer conversation.
Doesn’t mean it never took place.
Valid points.
Very.
Agree, pretty much a made up conversation, which doesn’t help the cause one bit. Thanks for the thought though Ms. Broder.
Here is a conversation with a dear friend of mine that took place some time ago!…
Me: Hi Jim…how ya been?
Jim: Good an you?
Me: not bad at’tall!
Jim: How you votin on this gay marriage gaaabage?
Me: votin against it! Just a bunch of sickos wantin to pretend they are normal! I dont want my marriage defined in the same sentence as that nasty stuff!
Jim: I know what cha mean…I feel the same way!
Me: Well, gotta go…say high to the missus for me.
Jim: I will… same to you!
( this conversation used much more colorful language probably not suited for this venue)
Wow…I guess my first question is why do you care who marries who? It’s not for you to judge. Second, do you mind your marriage defined in the same sentence with open marriages, or marriages where the husband or wife are physically, verbally, and emotionally abused? Are those considered better marriages then a marriage between two people who love and honor each other until death do they part regardless of their sex or race?
For people like billpetersll, an abusive marriage where the husband beats his wife every night is more valid than two men or two women in a committed relationship. It’s sad that people actually think like this, but it’s true…
I agree, how very, very sad
How did you hear what each other was saying through the white hoods?
You made coffee come out of my nose !
Here’s what I think.
Everyone knows how they are going to vote.
Let’s all shut to heck up til after the 6th
A better solution is to avoid the newspaper and the comments section if you don’t like people discussing the upcoming election.
You first.
Imagine a society telling you what you must tolorate.
The real truth is, most people don’t agree with same sex marraige. There are plenty of freaks out there who will vote yes just because they think it is in fashion, no other reason. They want to be in a crowd and announce that they voted yes. A sort of cult like thing to do just to feel they belong and are important.. They really don’t care, it is a social issue to them and think it places them higher up in the cult if they vote yes. It is a fashion statement to have a gay friend on hand to display to their friends… Vote NO!!!
Such an incredibley intelligent comment. You’ve certainly convinced me. No, not to vote no because I’ve voted YES, you’ve simply convinced me that I was right.
Do you know that gays were marring during roman time ?
I was at a family gathering last week. At some point the subject of politics came up. We all had a lively discussion of Senate candidates, Summers vs King.
And then someone brought up question 1. And their husband added how anyone who would vote against SSM was a bigot. I am going to vote no on this issue but at the family gathering I simply kept my mouth shut and said nothing. You see, there is no way to have a rational discussion about the issue with someone who thinks that anyone who disagrees with them on this issue is automatically a bigot. No need to ruin a family gathering.
I bet my experience and “conversation” is a lot more typical than the one presented in this piece.
Well then, what else are we supposed to call someone who votes to take away the civil rights of a large group of people in this country?
There is no way to have a rational discussion with someone who intentionally votes to harm law-abiding citizens.
I see your conundrum.
Well, calling someone a bigot from the start is not the way to have any conversation. If that was our strategy these past 2 years for our one-on-one conversations, then we’d have gotten nowhere.
It’s unfortunate that people think that. While there ARE some people who, while voting no are bigots, it’s wrong to make such generalized statements. Not everyone believes that everyone voting no is a bigot.
Wonder if anyone is going after her social work license? Oh no, she’s on the right side.
What about all the lies in the adds that are going on like loss your job ect ?