BANGOR, Maine — A federal judge has granted class action status to a lawsuit filed by Maine retirees over the elimination in 2011 of cost-of-living adjustments for Maine state employee retirement benefits.
The ruling, issued Wednesday by U.S. District Judge George Singal, clears the way for about 28,000 retired teachers, Maine State Police troopers and state employees to have their day in court.
The next step in the case will be for Singal to decide two legal issues in the case — whether the laws governing cost-of-living increases prior to a change in the law last year constituted a contract and, if so, whether the 2011 legislation constituted an “impairment” of that contract, according to court documents.
Lawyers are expected to file motions on the questions by the end of March. A date for oral arguments has not been set.
The lawsuit was filed in February in U.S. District Court in Bangor after the budget passed by the Legislature the previous year froze, then capped at 3 percent cost-of-living increases for state employees.
Originally, the 15,000-member Maine Association of Retirees sued the Maine Public Employees Retirement System. In October, U.S. District Court Judge Nancy Torresen, who on Nov. 19 recused herself from the case, allowed three state employee unions — Maine State Employees Association, Maine Education Association and Maine State Troopers Association — to join the case.
Torresen did not give a reason for her recusal but she worked from 1994 to 2001 for the Maine attorney general’s office, according to her biography posted on the Maine U.S. District Court website.
Can’t do that to folks, just isn’t right. Promised all those state employees they’d be taken care of in exchange for a paycheck and 20-30-40 years of work — doesn’t leave any wiggle room if the economy slows down or gets turned around. Bite the bullet and keep that promise, leave it out of future hires if need be.
I agree. Going back on our word is not the way to balance our budget.
We teachers, troopers, wardens, and state employees, who have paid a high percentages of our salaries, into the Maine State Retirement System for the last 10, 20, 30, and 40 years, were given a promise by the State of Maine for our State Retirements…please do not let our draft dodging, bullying, buffoon governor, who has had no problem putting his family members on our State payroll, sway anybody from our great State of Maine, for not keeping our promise to those of us, who have loved, worked, and basically dedicated our lives for many, many years to our great State of Maine!
You haven’t paid anywhere near what you will be taking out.
actually you are wrong .Do the math..In fact most employee wiil not live long enought to get their ‘full benefit” or all their money back.
It is no different then a 401K. State employees put in their OWN earned money That money is investsed and grows. Yes it is invested VERY well. The pension fund SAVES taxpayers a great deal of money BECAUSE it is “in lieu of SS.” The share of the state match (and therefore the taxpayer) is 2% -3% less then IF they were contributing to SS instead, YES the state is required BY law to pay into SS Or have a pension fund whihc is equivalent as in “in lieu of SS” . IF Not for the pension, tax payers would be paying significantly MORE. In my opinion state employees are suing on the WRONG issue !!!
The real problem for both the pension fund and taxpayers ” extended4life “, is the theft of the pension fund by Jock McKernan back in the 90’s .Jock “borrowed from the fund to balance the budget for ALL taxpayers and to prevent their taxes from going up. You still with me ‘extended”? YOU should be thanking state employees for how much they have SAVED YOU over the decades.
Jock stole the money and then refused to pay it back. The people went to referenda and MADE him ( the state) pay it back, by an overwhelming majority because the state( Mc Kernana) had abused their powers..The people gave the state 20 years to pay it back ( like any other “loan”) That loan is coming due. And “the state” is afraid of the consequences.
So why didn’t Angus or Baldacci pay it back with all that ‘extra’ revenue drummed up in the 90s?
We had money for laptops in schools, medicaid expansions we obviously can’t afford, and continuation of our above national average welfare benefits, but we couldn’t seem to find the money to pay off the state retirement fund?
it’s pretty sad how folks like you advocate for public workers, promise them everything under the sun, and then when they get to their retirement years, you folks turn into a political football that you shamelessly employ to drive votes in your favor
UH ….The state WAS paying it back as required. and then .crash boom bang wall street crashed remember that??
Promises, promises, guys. Whoever heard of a bunch of politicians going back on their promises, right?
Vote for me and I’ll set you free! A chicken in every pot! End this war (and start another somewhere else)! How can ya tell when a politician is lying? His lips are moving. =)
Darn tootin, bill, just take it from the future. There, problem solved, bring on another.
With a user name like “entitled4life,” maybe you should share your wisdom with us. =) I’ll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.
Of course we should take care of these hard-working folks in a fair and compassionate way–just like we should provide the foundation for happiness for all our citizens. Welfare nets and pension nets are part of a good and decent society. We can chose dignity or we can choose to foment suffering and stress.
Going the latter route is unethical and anti-Christian.
You are absolutely right
The problem is that someone, obviously not you, has to pay for all of these “entitlements”.
You’re absolutely right. Someone DOES have to pay for the pensions, and I’m glad we’re all recognizing it now.
But these are not “entitlement programs” any more than any insurance is an “entitlement program”. The employess paid into a plan that would guarantee them money when they retired. The only thing they’re “entitled” to is that the state keep up their end of the bargain.
but keep in mind dweller this isn’t charity This is the workers OWN MONEY and THEIR investments.
LOL…..just like SS is ‘our’ money and ‘our’ investments
u really don’t get it do you
unless YOU control the account, YOU don’t own it
this is a case in point
The problem is that by going the former route you are actually CHOOSING to forment suffering and stress. Take a loom around the world and the economy. You ACTUALLY think that we can afford the ongoing welfare and pension entitlements?
What is unethical and anti-christian is setting people up to become dependent, telling them they don’t have to stress, they don’t have to suffer, and pushing them into an unsustainable system that WILL fail and WILL leave them homeless and destitute when the system finally implodes (as is happening in Greece and Spain).
The most compassionate thing to do would be to educate these people how to provide for themselves, without the dependence upon others.
This is what Christ taught and what all prophets of compassion have suggested as the just path throughout the milenia…..for the sole reason that they were right and folks like you are just plain wrong
Good luck to them all.
If this kind of theft at the end of their long careers of public service is permitted then one would have to wonder why anyone of any quality today or in the future would ever consider signing up to be a State employee, trooper, or teacher. If you can’t trust your government to live by their own rules then there really are no rules and you have no legitimate government. If a government were to survive under such a system it would likely to be run by certified fools who can be made to do or think anything they‘ve been ordered to do or to think. Is that your ultimate goal here Mr. LePage?
Ask Hostess workers about it. Corporate owners first attacked their own workers, and now have turned them against their public employee brothers and sisters.
Learn the history – the reason why public employees have “great perks” is because they were needed to entice people to take a public job.
History isn’t a snapshot. Please take the time to learn context.
“the reason why public employees have “great perks” is because they were needed to entice people to take a public job.” No it’s because they have powerful unions that work both sides of the bargaining table and have friends in office. unlike private sector unions which are only on one side of the table and their friends in high office don’t have direct control over the bargaining terms.
Wrong…………again. Even the state funded report proved that state employees generally earn less than the private sector. They earned far less in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and were outright laughed at in the 90s for not taking those great private sector jobs. The Union is only on one side of the table. H.R. employees and the governor negotiate the contracts and none of them are union members.
If you don’t like influencing your government then I take it you are against Citizens United?
No unions have every right to free speech. They should not have a right to force dues and force the government to the bargaining table. That’s not free speech that is force of law.
“H.R. employees and the governor negotiate the contracts and none of them are union members.” So Unions work hard and use the involuntary dues to get a governor elected and you think the HR employees and governor are really going to be looking out for the best long term interest of state finances. The pensions they agreed on would be paid out long after that governor was either dead or out of office. California and NJ pensions crisis prove you dead wrong. You need to take a look around and realize what is going on. Public employee unions are bankrupting cities and states and are hurting public education and other public services across the country.
Brendan, The R’s lost . And the right to work bill isn’t coming back. Give it up. You should have listened to the hearing about it last year I did . It was very interesting.
At least ONE person from management got up and talked about the VALUE ( yes the VALUE) of UNIONS and collective bargaining. In that case it was the employees who had the best ideas on how to save the company money and they did. It was WIN WIN. He talked about the VALUE of employees and employers working together. and he didn’t want to be without that value.
Despite very tough question from the R majority on the committee…. the bill didn’t make it out of committee. .I’d bet several of those R’s asking the “tough questions” got voted OUT 2 weeks ago. Their disdain for workers was obvious and quite disgusting.
Well now they can bankrupt the state. You are true to your name. “best ideas on how to save the company” We’re not talking about private unions here we are talking about public unions which have an imbalance in bargaining power. The evidence is there, unions have been destructive. Your arguments are not backed up by the evidence provided by bankrupted cities and companies. The theoretical benefits might be there but it is not outweighed by the inevitable financial collapse caused by the. Doesn’t matter that the Rs lost, Ds will eventually be faced with the same tough decision because you can not escape financial realities.
Not news to me, but thanks for trying to help others who are unable to put two and two together. How many of these quality people LePage has screwed do you suppose would have chosen to spend their lives in service to us had they known that their retirement pensions would be raided upon retirement? Not too many. How many quality people will take such a road now? Not too many. What will we be getting in the way public service employees under LePage type thinking? It’s scary to even consider. Thanks for nothing Paul.
the less people going into the public sector the better, as it is inefficient, unsustainable and is not even close to something you can count in the long run
just because it worked for 80 or so years while we had every economic advantage uder the sun going in our favor, does not mean it is either sustainable or a good idea in the long term
Good News.
Teacher’s and public service unions, corrupt democrats make deals to steal from the taxpayers in the future, for votes. The future is now and the State doesn’t have any money. The damage the dems have done to our state is unbelievable and the people just put them back in power in Augusta. We deserve whatever they do….
The Democrats just kicked the corrupt GOP out of the State House.
They will undo the damage the stupid Tea Party did to the State of Maine.
Yessah
Give me a break, LePage knew he was on shaky ground when he did this. Considering the Republicans have a person who stole a million from MaineCare and filed bankruptcy to avoid paying it back as speaker of the house makes me believe the Republicans are the corrupt ones here. How is he not in jail.
Perhaps if you’d stayed in school longer, you’d have learned that “teachers” is the plural of “teacher,” not “teacher’s.” How typical, though, of small people like you to turn on all those who made it their life’s work to try to help you.
I feel sorry for you, yes, I pity you. The deals were made but the deal was to take less pay up front and have a secure retirement. The pity I feel is because you are supporting a system that can break a solemn promise because those in power now don’t like those in power in the past.
I keep my promises and I keep my pride.
Well then, you must want the state to pay the 5 plus year old 400 million dollar debt it owes our hospitals, right? A promise is a promise.
Of course. They have to pay it but it can be paid over time. So, what was your point?
I think the point is why can’t it be paid when it was earned. Just like the case being kicked around here why can’t this be paid back over time then?
LaPlague probably should paid some of that off before giving away 200 million in tax breaks, mostly to the wealthy.
Harvey, please bear in mind that those tax cuts create jobs. They create banking jobs in the Cayman Islands. But hey, who’s keeping score?
“mostly to the wealthy.” The highest tax bracket $19,000. It is disgusting and revealing that you consider 20k to be “wealthy.”
whether we “owe ” the hosptals anything is in dispute..
They aren’t corrupt, they just have no clue how money works and the limits of tax revenue.
These people are no different than those on social security who went 2 years without a cost of living allowance based on the same principal. No growth no increase that is pretty simple to understand. Also the military retirees had the same done to them except is was for a little longer period of time. And most current federal employees are still under a pay freeze. So step up to the bar and give your fair share as the president would say. I also hope that the judge realizes that one legislature can not necessarily hold another to the financial situation it puts one in.
Before this was done to retirees they already had had two years of no cost of living increase like those on Social Security. State employees are going into there forth year of no pay increases. Sounds like you don’t know what the situation is and just want to bash public servants.
Did Bush ever deny SS their colas, Obama is the only president that has ever denied people colas
You’re a font of misinformation, push – O’Bama didn’t deny SS recipients their COLA’s. When there is no increase in the CPI, there is no COLA. Otherwise, the COLA is equal to the CPI.
there is “no increase in the CPI” only because the numbers are cooked.
look at how much food has gone up the last 2 or 4 years and for some reason, the CPI has not followed suit… this is just like unemployment numbers … only counting those who are actually getting a check this week… anyone who has run out of benefits is not “unemployed”
An old and still pathetic argument – when the data contradicts you, attack the data. OK, prove that the CPI and unemployment numbers were “cooked”. And computing the unemployment rate the same way it’s been computed for years doesn’t count.
LOL….give it time ABEL
Obama has some great news coming for SS folks over the next few months….gonna make this little state pension fraud seem like a walk in the park!
A retirement system that those people payed into their whole working life is not a “fraud” Jack. Where did you get your version of the way things should be, Ayn Rand? lol.
Sheesh, they’re coming out of the woodwork on this article.
What fraud are you talking about, Jack?
Apples and oranges, somewhr – “no growth, no increase” is fair. But
“whether or not there’s growth, no increase” was never the deal. As for
pay freezes, state employees have not had pay increases for a long time
and have, in fact, had their total pay reduced by mandatory furlough days.
As Steve K. said, it sounds like you don’t know what you’re talking about.
S.S. has had a better model to handle inflation for years. If inflation was ten percent your S.S. could go up ten percent. State employees were capped at four percent. The also did not have their health care frozen. Current state employees have gone four years with a freeze and an additional two years with a pay cut. The pensions can now be capped at 3% of 50% of your pension. Do the math a 1.5% cap on a lot of pensions.You step up to the bar and be a real Mainer. Keep your word.
The vast MAJORITY of us never had any word in it!
So to keep our ‘word’, can we line all you whinning baby-boomers up in a line and take care of you once and for all?
Not so different than what has occured in the private sector. Fantasyland is fantasyland. Just ask the IAW.
I wonder if the tea party really expects the new Maine Attorney General to spend much time defending this lawsuit. Something tells me Attorney General Dill will be far too busy investigating wrong doing in the Governor’s Office.
That investigation will keep any new AG busy for many years.
Probably so busy that they won’t have time to defend the appeal in “The Mural” case.
whats wrong with you?
Wrong? Nothing is wrong with me. But thank you for your concern.
What’s wrong w/pushtheredbutton is that he is right…but not in a good sense.
500 millon pension debt per year created by 30/40 years of liberal government borrowing all of it through bonds.. Yet Obama can tell GM bond holders it will only pay them 20 cents on the dollar. alot of them were pension fund investsments.. I really can’t wait the day no one/countries buy US bonds to fund our debts..The only way people will realize how bad things are, an to wake them up is to bankrupt the country. until then people won’t understand
On January 5, 2011 Paul LePage was inaugurated as our Governor. On this very day, there was a 4.5 billion dollar state retirement pension DEFICIT in the Maine state retirement account. Yes, that was a 4.5 billion dollar deficit left by the Democrats. As everyone knows, the Democrats are heavily financed by the state’s unions and as a result, they made too many promises that the Maine taxpayers simply could not afford. And as a result, the retirees and future retirees are not seeing the gains they expected. Does anyone remember ENRON? When ENRON went belly up, the retirees lost everything, including their monthly pension. No pension for nobody! This is what happens in the dreaded private sector. The state pension system had gone belly up and as far as I’m concerned, the state employees should count their blessings that they are still getting a pension. As for the annual raises, welcome to the real world. I don’t hear any of them complaining when there are no social security COLA’s, nor do they complain when companies in the private sector eliminate pensions as most have. Suck it up and count your blessings that you are getting a pension from a bankrupt retirement account.
On January 5, 2011 Paul LePage was inaugurated as our Governor. On this
very day, there was a 4.5 billion dollar DEFICIT in the Maine State Retirement Account. Yes, that was a 4.5
billion dollar deficit left by the Democrats. As everyone knows, the
Democrats are heavily financed by the state’s public sector unions and as a result,
they made too many promises. Promises that would break the backs of the ME taxpayers. And now, claims are arising from these very unions that our retirees and future retirees are not
seeing the assumed gains. Does anyone remember ENRON? When ENRON
went belly up, the retirees lost everything, including their monthly
pension. No pension for nobody! This is what happens in the dreaded
private sector. The state pension system had gone belly up and as far
as I’m concerned, the state employees should count their blessings that
they are still getting a very good pension. As for the annual raises, welcome to
the real world. I don’t hear any of them complaining when there are no
social security COLA’s, nor do they complain when companies in the
private sector eliminate pensions as most have. Count
your blessings that you are getting a pension from a bankrupt retirement
account. You can thank Governor LePage and Bruce Poliquin for bringing this pension deficit fiasco under control and all with no state employee layoffs.
You really don’t know what you are talking about do you? Poliquin used figures that were already two years old, did not reflect the billions in gains that had been added to the pension fund at the same time he was whining. Then they gave the pension money as tax breaks to almost exclusively the rich. If they were telling the truth they would have paid down debt.
You really don’t know what you are talking about. Unions have been the leaders demanding changes in the laws to stop private pension theft. The only way you can claim to know anything is if you claim to know hate and jealousy.
So Poliquin and Millett both lied to the ME people? You’ve got to be kidding me. Where are you getting your Kool-Aid? Are your caring and competent unions the same ones who caused Hostess to go belly up? Yes, the unions really care about people. The only thing they care about is to fatten the pockets of their leaders, even at the expense of union workers, as the Hostess workers can attest to. Unions have outlived their purpose and are now a dinosaur in the global economy.
The unions didn’t kill Hostess. eight years of being run by people with no experience who gave themselves bonuses for incompetence had a lot to do with it. The Unions took cut after cut, the company stole all of the employees contribution to the pension system for the last year, three to four dollars an hour. Tell Germany, the engine of Europe, with a Union rep. on every board, universal health care with both public and private plans, how poorly they have functioned. Tell a Wal Mart worker who is collecting Mainecare and food stamps so the Waltons can get even richer that Unions have outlived their time.
P.S. My Kool Aid was made with pure organic facts, multiple days in the state budget hearings listening to the lies and distortions.
How about yours? Fox news sell your brand?
OK, I fully understand you point. The unions negotiated too well and in too good of faith. So much, that Hostess was so taken aback by the generosity of the unions that they decided to go belly up. This all makes sense now, from a liberal point of view only.
You were asked for your source material. You were unable to answer.
Thanks for proving me right. You are just making it up as you go instead of trying to engage in a discussion.
Hope a fact doesn’t cross your path, it could block reception from the Fox news alternate reality.
black backgrounded web sites rarely site a source.
If you read the facts of the Hostess situation it is clear to anyone that debt is what killed them. It is a classic case of vulture capitalism. The unions gave huge concessions based on the promise that management had a plan to return the company to profitability. What the company did was take on more debt against those concessions. Each and every aspect of Hostess was leveraged to the max. The fact is that these workers could have agreed to work for nothing and the company still would have failed.
This is what the race to the bottom looks like.
i am as sure as I can be that the bakery/tobacco union has enough money to buy hostess and run it.
why aren’t they doing it?
because then they would have to try to show a profit or at least break even, and in a no-trans-fat world… that is not easily accomplished when everyone knows that your product is deadly.
it is amazing the libs are not getting this
If your point here were true then we could solve the smoking, drinking and obesity problems by telling people that all those things are bad for their health. Problems solved right? Nope. What’s amazing here is your ability to totally ignore reality.
the problem with the hostess situation is that the union used the bakery workers to hold many other corporations’ feet to the fire.
the poor bakery workers are completely screwed at christmas.
as for the corporation going back on its word… it was in bankruptcy and the union voted NOT to accept what was court ordered.
not one of the bakery workers is better off today than he would have been with a lower paying job.
it is really sad that the union used the pawns the way they did
If you got your info from somewhere other then a black back grounded web site, you would be better informed.
it saddens me that all you are doing is pointing fingers and spewing “talking points”
the “divide and conquer” game of the one true governmental party (I see no difference… the Dems and repubs work together to enhance their own careers and nothing more) is clearly working
it is all your fault… no it is all your fault.
will we stand together in this country ever again?
Union’s are not dinosaurs in the global economy they are the only hedge workers have left against the all out greed that is sucking the life out of American business. There is a direct relationship between the decline in union membership and the loss of wages and the shrinking of the middle class.
Unions are essentially groups of workers who choose to seek professional representation. If you get arrested, you call a lawyer for the same reason. Unions are democratic organizations that give workers a voice in their own destinies and the fact of the matter is that if management did it’s job of cultivating that resource it could be a win win. If management just did it’s job of management it would be producing profit and achieving success, with or without a union.. There are plenty of examples of excellent companies who produce excellence by working with their unions. Managing labor is one of the most important aspects of a professional managers skills.
It all comes down to leadership. If your a soldier in combat you are not going to follow a leader who is reckless and seeking personal glory at your expense. American workers have already given a lot to these phony titans of business. Lower labor costs, fewer regulations, lower taxes, etc. So, when do we see some results? When are CEO’s going to demonstrate their amazing abilities by actually producing a result that is not tied to robbing workers and their pensions. Bush gave them a trillion dollars over ten years. How many jobs did they produce? How many advancements in technology? New business?
It looks to me that the trillion dollars is parked offshore doing nothing.
If this is truly the case, then why didn’t the bargain with Hostess? Didn’t the union know that Hostess’s financial situation was at bankruptcy levels? The union could care less about union workers. They only want their union dues.
did you ever think that maybe union leadership might be a little reckless and power hungry? Your reference to the military also brings to light that you don’t hear them complaining about all that they go through in the defense of this country.
Of course unions are greedy. That’s their job. They negotiate on behalf of workers and they can ask for the moon, but on the other side of the table is management and they sign the checks. Management also has professional negotiators making it’s case. What I see is those companies who negotiate in good faith and have a good business plan usually produce a good contract. It can be a win win.
If you think that soldiers don’t complain, than you were never in the military. I think that’s all we ever did was complain. The military is a great example of the value of leadership. Maintaining morale is extremely important. We all know leaders that we would follow anywhere and we know “leaders” we wouldn’t follow anywhere. That is the the whole point of professional management.
YOU wish The fact that the R’s in the last 2 years tried to reinstall child labor seems to suggest unions are still needed.
You do not know what you are talking about. Money has been taken out of the pension fund since McKernan. EVERY Governor since then has borrowed from this pension fund. The Union did NOTHING about this. Just remember Maine has been run by democrats for 40 years. LePage was trying to secure the pension fund. Obviously you do not care and would rather have the state go bankrupt. Federal Employees pay has been frozen for 2 years and will be frozen for another two, perhaps longer. We all have to suffer through this horrid economy which will not get much better any time soon. Elections have consequences, just wait.
NO ONE but McKernan “stole ” money from the fund In the same PEOPLE”S referenda that FORCED the state to pay the money back , it prohibits any other ‘borrowing” from it . It is against the law to borrow form the fund. YUP the people were so out raged that they put a permanent lock box on it.!!!
the people will be outraged when the empty promises of democrats begin emerging as bounced checks and lack of entitlement funding becomes the norm
this is just the tip of a MASSIVE debt-fueled, underfunded iceburg
We will be sure to thank Lepage, Lepoliquin, LeSummers and LeNutting when we see their arses out of Maine government.
Do you really think that putting the DEMS back in control will miraculously solve the state’s budgetary problems? This is ludicrous! These are the very people who created these budgetary disasters, due to years of misplaced priorities or none at all. The Democratic leadership sold their party to George Soros and to the unions a long time ago.
These people have no common sense. They most likely do not even have a clue who George Soros is. Also, they probably have no clue who Donald Sussman is, they fall for all the propaganda their Union tells them after paying their dues to ensure Democrats win elections. They cannot see that their Union did nothing to protect their pension while every governor since John McKernan took from the pension fund. LePage is the only one who was trying to ensure it could be funded, but they cannot and will not give him any credit.
sad, isn’t it?
divide and conquer
Well said and very true.
and yet SO full of misinformation .
Are you serious? I worked for the state. I was a mental health care worker. We paid taxes and earned every dime we got. I hear now that those who work there are in jepardy every day because they cannot restrain a patient out of control. You don’t think they deserve the promises made to them when the signed up? Thanks a lot from the bottom of my bottom!
you might want t to change your name. You aren’t a majority any more !!!Your post is full of misinformation Too much to address. .Ignorance is bliss i guess.
Pure disinformation there.
It was Gov. Mckernan who took money from the Maine Workers retirement fund to balance his budget, for some reason nobody wants to pay it back. It’s not right.
More whining from union members who were catered too their whole lives. Double pay on holidays, summer’s off(teachers), every holiday off with pay(except emergency workers, who got double pay), insurance paid for by our tax dollars, plus the ability to actually pay into a retirement plan. Get a real job folks, and then maybe we will have sympathy for you. And those who have posted on here about the “perils” of working for the state, PUUHLLEEASE!
Sounds like your jealous and ignoring the fact that whatever your pay is, it is the result of unions. It is your individual choice to accept less and less compensation for your work, but this race to the bottom has a limited life span.
Union or no union all workers are asking is that the self proclaimed titans of industry prove it by managing their business for success. Any phony bean counter can survive for a little while by being bailed out by employees or tax cuts, but it is not a sustainable model for a economy.
Now it’s gone beyond cutting wages. Now these titans if business are looking to break promises and contracts.
Wow, now that is typical of a union worker. I don’t work for a union, I get paid less, and don’t reap unearned benefits, so I am jealous. Nice support for your fellow worker. I would NEVER work for a union so that my money can support the mob, pay for lawyers to fight for a labor mural, or make me feel pressured to vote for a contract I don’t want. Are you a hockey fan? I hope not, because your union is keeping them from playing. Are you a Sox fan? It’s unions that allow players like John Lackey to earn millions while completely sucking, or not even playing for that matter. It’s unions that put Hostess out of business. It’s unions that put steel plants out of business. The mob boys “make an offer the owners can’t refuse” and the next thing you know, the company is bankrupt. Unions ruined this country, and will continue to hinder it until they are abolished.
My entire career was in management in the paper industry. I’ve worked in union and nonunion mills. My point is that professional managers recognize the importance of labor management. It is management that is always in the position to get the best out of employees.
Unions are bargaining units. They can ask for the moon, but they have to negotiate with management. Unions get nothing that management does not agree to. If you have a legal issue you hire a lawyer to represent you. It is the same process. Your lawyer simply makes your case in the best possible way. It is a negotiation.
Unions don’t put anyone out of business. Companies deal with a multitude of issues and labor contracts is only one of many issues. The auto industry gave generous pay and benefits to workers back in the 70’s because they could easily pass their costs on to car buyers. All this time they ignored their quality issues until they had lost huge market share to Japanese and German car companies who were all unionized. Is it the fault of the union that the car companies couldn’t manage their business? Toyota is the largest car company in the world now because of quality and value and it is all the product of companies working with their unions.
The Maine paper industry also lost market share due to quality issues. That market share went to Europe… to union mills. Several Maine mills are still doing well, Madison and Hinkley are both union. More importantly they are well managed. They were investing in technology to meet the demands of their customers while Jay and Rumford were wrecking their quality by trying to bust the unions.
Whatever you get paid; union or not, your pay still is the result of unions. If the present trend continues, you will come in to work one day and find that your job was sold to the lowest bidder. Then you might come to appreciate the benefits of unions.
You said,
I have a lousy job that pays less than a good job, and that makes me happy. You don’t get benefits and that makes you happy. You still think the unions are mob run and that Americans have no right to hire a lawyer if they disagree with you. Since you have never been in a union, no nothing about unions, you feel perfectly capable of telling people how they run before running off into a vacuous analogy to sports where you take a swipe at some player you don’t like. You have read the facts on Hostess showing it was management that tanked the company, you should know that steel mills have been shipped to China while the tax payer subsidized the companies with your tax dollars. You think the powerful mob and unions are so powerful yet only want to put companies out of business which would lead to them no being the bogeyman you claim.
P.S. United States is a Union of States, if you don’t like the idea of unions you are un-american.
And I’ll say it again, “Nothing says hypocrisy more than those who enjoy the benefits of organized labor, while condemning those who struggle to keep them there.”
How am I enjoying the benefits of organized labor? Is it by paying $185 a ticket, $50 for parking, and $8 for a beer, so I can watch millionaires chase a football around? Is it so I can no longer eat a Twinkie? Is it so I can buy a $40,000 truck? Is it so I can watch jobs go oversees because companies can’t afford the demands of workers?
And of course corporate greed had nothing to do with those costs, eh? Keep believing that, while the fat cats laugh all the way to the bank. Re. watching jobs go (sic)oversees, that, too, had nothing to do w/companies wanting to increase their bottom line, at the expense of American jobs, I suppose.
I hope they prevail. The were promised it, now we need to follow through on that promise. Is it me, or are we constantly reneging on past agreements these days?
“are we constantly reneging on past agreements these days?”
what do you expect when you assume la-la land type ROI’s of 8 to 10% for infinity
unbelievable that so many state workers would be duped into such a corrupted, unsustainable program…..they only have themselves to blame for falling victim to another one of government’s great promises it will never be able to keep….all you have to do is read the fine print, which nobody (including you) actually does
Okay, you win Jack. Let’s balance the budget on the backs of retired teachers and cops. Let’s wipe the slate clean and start over with every state employee. Everyone will have their wages adjusted down to minimum wage with absolutely no security or guarantee for the future. No one will be allowed to work more than 30 hours a week. We’ll kick the chair out from under anyone who is already retired and give the savings back to the taxpayers in the form of a tax cut. We’ll ax all social programs and send the check directly to you. Would that fix things, in your mind, Jack? Or could we all dig a little deeper for you Jack?
We must not forget that State and Federal employees deserve everything, Maybe we should bow our heads down every time one passes us on the street!
we should call ’em ‘crackers’ for enslaving the youth to pay their way
Greece, Spain, France …
Greed is not limited to Wall Street. The alternative to foregoing a cost of living increase for 1 year is an increase in your taxes or a slashing of teacher hiring/spending on our students.
The irony is that most of those who support this lawsuit are the same ones promising to raise taxes and are the reason the cost of living increases to begin with.
oh c’mon tag, the baby boomers DESERVE to have their cake and eat it too
they’re the ‘special’ generation don’t cha know?