I’m receiving food stamps, but I’m not really poor. Even when I had only $7 in my bank account, no gas in my car, and no expected income for weeks, I wasn’t poor. The times I considered going to food banks, but felt too ashamed to do it, I wasn’t poor. And when I applied for government assistance and qualified for help, I still wasn’t poor. My poverty is situational, not generational. I’m newly poor, not really poor.
My former husband provides far more financial support than the law requires; he’s a good father and a good man. My small business, when I am able to work, brings in decent money. However, it’s not my helpful ex-husband, college education, varied skills or earning potential that will free me from poverty, though those things will certainly help.
One of the most significant advantages I have as I work toward financial stability is my sense of entitlement. I expect people to treat me with respect. I expect kindness. And I expect to uncover wonderful opportunities in my professional life. These expectations, this sense of entitlement, combined with my underlying belief that things will get better, allow me a hope most truly poor people don’t have.
What I didn’t know before I hit this financial trough was how many people expect life to just suck. As far as they are concerned, that’s just how it will always be. People I know now who are really poor, whose parents and grandparents and extended family all have lived with levels of income lower than I can even imagine, seem resigned to being treated badly. People have even explained to me why the bad treatment I’ve received since being poor is just how things are.
“People are tired,” said Shay Stewart-Bouley, executive director of Joyful Harvest Neighborhood Center in Biddeford. Over the course of Stewart-Bouley’s 15 years working with low-income adults and families in both Chicago and Maine, she has seen that “living in the culture of poverty, the day-to-day challenges wipe people out. They are just too tired to fight. When they do find the strength to fight, to try and make their voices heard, they can be punished for it by landlords, employers, even social service providers.”
Recently I sat at the Maine Department of Health and Human Services after the person at the first window said I should probably come back another day, that there was a three-to-four-hour wait, that I was unlikely to be seen. As I waited, I watched other people come in after me also get the bad news.
When they called me up to a previously unstaffed second window after just a few minutes, while everyone else still sat in their chairs, the man helping me was confused about why I was there.
“Your case seems in order,” he said, standing at the half-opened window, obviously not expecting a long conversation.
I agreed but explained I wanted to talk to someone about planning for my future. I was here to learn exactly what would happen and when, I said. I had a lot of questions.
Again he suggested I come back another time. I explained that other times I would have my children with me, so that wouldn’t work. I said I would keep coming back on Fridays at the same time until I was seen. The conversation wasn’t unpleasant, but it took some pressure from me for him to realize I expected I would have a chance to get my questions answered.
The worker was apparently unaware how difficult it would be to just come back on another day. Person after person came to that first busy window only to hear “we can’t see anyone else today.” The office would be closing in three hours. Adding anyone else to the waiting list was pointless, as there was no way they would be seen.
Sitting in a waiting area for more than six hours is not just inconvenient for poor people, it’s expensive. Arranging child care, transportation, time off work, among other things, all take time and energy. Missed work costs. The ability to be flexible with appointments is something that doesn’t exist when living without money.
The people who came after me, hearing they wouldn’t be seen, seemed to be under a blanket of acceptance woven with hostility or apathy or maybe just exhaustion. Most turned away from the window before the clerk even finished her sentence. That’s just how life is, they seemed to say. They were tired.
I’ve read about it before, and now I know some people who live it, but what makes someone actually poor isn’t all about the money. Since I got boosted back up to near-security with food stamps and MaineCare, I live with a nearly constant feeling of hope. I continue with the sense of entitlement my parents instilled in me. I’m not really poor, only newly poor.
Heather Denkmire is a writer and artist who lives in Portland with her two young daughters. After a few challenging years, she is growing her small business, where her team helps nonprofit organizations win grants. She can be reached at heather@grantwinners.net. Her columns appear monthly.
Excellent article! Nice to see someone who is willing to talk about the time and money they “have to” spend waiting to be heard. It is hard to be poor and yes, Newly poor. thank you for Sharing Heather.
Like she said, people should advocate for themselves. But the “am tired” narrative is scarily just one step from the “am tired and therefore angry” narrative that potentially calls for pitchforks and torches. The Dems recklessly tossed class warfare matches at the dry tinder of the country in the last election, now they are hoping they don’t get caught in any resultant fires.
ah it was the right playing “class warfare” with the poor, the newly and temporarily unemployed , the new immigrants etc… with their endless tirade against them all. I’m glad someone is there standing up for and advocating for them !!!.
Spot on analysis Kouch
the dems are so outplayed and commentary from folks like PF only highlight how clueless they are….once they ‘tax the rich’ into another country and bilk the few hundred billion out of them that they can (if even that), the dependents that will be left short-changed are going to turn on the ones that led them down the dead-end road to destitution
What is wrong with calling attention to the fact that we live in a class system? CLASS SYSTEMS ARE BAD. I don’t want violence, so I don’t advocate class ‘warfare,’ but I sure as hell advocate class struggle, and so should anyone else who isn’t on the top. It’s hardly better than feudal Europe with its nobles and peasants… why would any poor person be okay with living in our class system?
Some favor a police state to MAKE the poor accept corporate feudalism…..
you may be confusing caste and class systems. Class systems allow mobility. caste system make you static to whatever class you are born into.
Class mobility has all but disappeared in this country, according to the research.
The research shows we are as hardworking and educated than ever.
It’s the deregulatory zeal of the last 30 years.
You cannot have class mobility; a middle class at all for that matter, in a market free for all.
untrue. because the deregulation you’re talking about was primarily re-regulation of business and tax law in favor of larger companies. A truly free market is the only way to have class mobility.
again you, cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the prosperous into poverty.
Also if you are going to start saying “according to research” and move ideological banter into the realm of statistics and quantitative research then start citing it dude.
also “educated as ever”… yeh true we have so many college graduate that half of them can’t find work in w/e bs liberal arts field they studied. We also have more college loan debt than ever. If it hasn’t yet It will soon pass credit card debt.
When you worry that we might “tax the rich” and “bilk the rich” do you realize that what’s being talked about is simply ending SPECIAL TAX BREAKS that GW Bush handed out to them like lollipops?
maybe we should flatten the tax code. progressive liberals are talking about everyone putting in their fair share. But I see a lot of people who want the high and very high income pay 25-50% of their earnings with the lower income brackets paying nothing. 5% flat tax on every dollar earned, state and local tax not withstanding.
The counter argument I have heard to that is someone making 10k a year, well $500.00 is a lot of money to them. Well to someone making a million, $50,000 is a lot of money. money they earned through work or smart investing.
When one person has to pay more because they made more that is not fair it is punitive.
No one is even talking about going back to the tax rates of Eisenhower (although, historically, we have demanded the rich pay for wars).
Americans — including the tea party, have made clear that we want public expenditures. …and if the top 1% hold 42% of wealth and 90% of income growth over the past few years…..
You really believe our wealth and income concentration isn’t dysfunctional?
“We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can’t have both.” -Louis Dembitz Brandeis
I see nothing wrong with well-placed anger. It’s the shoulder shrugging that’s most alarming IMO. A worker at most mega-retail chains, for example, will get fired if they try to ‘advocate’ for themselves. That’s happened in the past.
Go through the classifieds and dig out a calculator. Figure out how much you’d make with they typical minimum wage service sector job (and we’ll say that you can find one that is actually full-time). Deduct taxes and go to the classifieds and look for 1 bedroom apartments and figure in a bus pass. Next, figure out how much it would be if you were to go to a 2 year business college for a typical office job and then figure out how you’ll pay rent on a 2 or more bedroom and feed kids on the entry level wage of $12.50 an hour (which is obviously better than $7.75 and I would wholeheartedly advocate for anyone to get an education if at all possible).
Comment about education said, there you have what a typical single mother or father (many who have a snowball’s chance in H.E. double hockey sticks of ever being able to go back to college) has to work with when something beyond their control happens. It’s not always a “if you can’t feed ’em don’t breed ’em” situation. Many of these people have worked hard for the majority of their lives.
By the way, I’m not a “Dem,” I work full-time, and there but for the grace of my husband’s decent job, would my 2 kids be on Mainecare and qualify for free school lunch. Once upon a time my employer offered affordable health insurance, but now it’s become so expensive, I couldn’t afford the weekly premium, much less the deductable. A lot’s changed in the last 25 years as far as the workplace goes. We seem to forget that.
Heather is fortunate that she has an ex who wants to do the right thing and actually help take care of their daughters. A lot of women (and men who have custody of their children) don’t have even that. I wish her well.
Minimum wage in Maine is $7.50 and hour. An attempt to raise it to $7.75 an hour was defeated by Republicans in the Maine Legislature last year. Assuming a 40 hour work week, the higher wage would equate to about $16,000 a year gross.
Thank you for the correction. I’m not surprised it was defeated in the slightest. I’d like to take an informal poll of how many current retail employees (take Mardens for example) have food stamps and MaineCare, but I’ll just zip my lip instead because it’s not worth the ensuing useless Dem vs. Repub argument that others like to keep dredging up.
A few years back I took a position at a local retailer for some extra cash. My position was considered the highest level starting pay. It was $7.75. At the time, my other job was part-time. I took it to help pay off a tutoring bill for my child, but when the gas prices spiked, it became pointless. I honestly don’t know how people live on that kind of money. Small wonder some people are up to their eyeballs in credit card debt.
$16,000.00 gross would roughly equate to $14,000.00 (give or take depending on number of exemptions and deductions) net or around $1100.00 per month. A decent rent would typically run around $800 to $1000.00 from near as I can tell.
You made some really good points. There is a lot to consider in these situations, and it varies from person to person, family to family.
Re your last paragraph: That is so true. In way too many cases, the woman is left without any help from her ex. Many try to get out of doing/paying any more than the minimum, if even that. People on the outside looking in make judgments, often about things of which they lack any real life understanding.
I once knew a guy who loved to complain about his ex spending all his money on herself. I asked him point blank if she worked. Of course I knew she did and full-time to boot.
Funny, but his child was always well-dressed and obviously well-nourished, but God forbid her mother have a horse in the backyard.
Regardless of the fact that she worked and earned money, she spent “his” money on her horse. In fact, as near as I could tell from the running of his pie hole, she must have simply piled her paychecks in a pit and set them on fire, because he seemed to pay for every blessed thing she had.
Don’t discount single fathers though. There are more and more of them now. They too often have the problem of not receiving any child support. It’s sad when children have to ultimately pay for what their parents do.
That’s awful. Unfortunately, though, I know of some similar situations. It is horrible when an ex is vindictive too, as it is the children who get hurt the most by far when that happens.
Agreed. Adults sometimes act more childish than their children.
That “vindictive” remark hit too close to home for someone.
Aristotle said that poverty is the parent of revolution….
Democrats have made a calculated decision; low wages for their Wall Street sugar daddies, with just enough of a social safety net to keep body and soul together. Destroys self-respect, and that of fellow citizens, but keeps the pitchforks away.
Republicans don’t have enough sense to fear mass desperation among hardworking people, and would let the “tinder burn” if they could.
Neither party stands for an honest days pay for an honest days work anymore; or that the most productive, hardworking people on the planet deserve decent, self- respecting lives…..
I agree with your rhetoric but not your method. You simply cannot legislate prosperity into law. Freedom creates prosperity and happiness.
“Advocates of capitalism are very apt to appeal to the sacred principles of liberty, which are embodied in one maxim: The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate” – Betrand Russell
“Freedom” includes freedom from exploitation, from want and from fear.
We can decide that our corporations ( public institutions, after all) pay their costs; there is NO inherent right to foist their costs onto society.
Freedom isn’t just for the strong.
well true capitalism is not what we have. I again will say I agree with you, corporate welfare is wrong. I am all for corporations pay their costs.
But who decides those costs? the government that regulates a large company and then requires it to adhere to minimum wages, and xyz business practices. Again corporations are not public institutions at least not in the sense you mean. Schools and police departments are public institutions.
I am also for a companies right to try and limit their costs and improve their business. Profitable businesses is an expanding business.
you quote Betrand Russel…
I quote Milton Friedman:
Most economic fallacies derive from the tendency to assume that there is a fixed pie, that one party can gain only at the expense of another.
Milton Friedman? You might just as well quote Ayn Rand, for heaven’s sake. He and Alan Greenspan have been somewhat discredited by recent events.
Corporations are, indeed, “public institutions”. They exist by virtue of a government issued charter. It’s interesting how fearful the Founders were of their power, regulating them mercilessly, and not permitting any activity outside their stated purpose, not allowing them to buy other corporations and setting an expiration date on their charters whereupon they would be dismantled!
Not too long ago, corporations were not only required to “serve the public good” in return for charter privileges, but carried the burden of proof that they were doing so. Charters could be revoked at any time. Now, by law, short-term shareholder value rules the day.
“The things done in the name of the shareholder are as terrifying to me as things done in, dare I say it, the name of God. The shareholder is always the excuse…” John le Carre
There is no point in “growth” if 90% of it goes to the top 1%. Workers, and the public need more of the pie, especially in wartime.
you got me. free money for everyone. good job.
No. There is no free lunch. You just have a weird idea of who has been eating our lunch… (HINT: not. the. poor)
Work for your money; expect a decent wage; pay for what you want, both privately and toward the public good. Want war? Tax the crap out of the GDP to pay for it. …or better, end war. Pay all your costs on your way to wealth, including labor, environmental and societal…. Don’t exploit…
You call it “free money for everyone”? I call it “responsibility as a citizen”
I was being factious dude. Work for your money pay for what you want privately and toward the public good? I don’t want welfare, for anyone period! What I consider public good and you consider public good are very different. You keep putting words in other peoples mouths. Did I ever say I want war? come on dude stop being antagonistic for a minute and read everything I had written.
End the warfare/welfare state. End bailouts and crony capitalism. Let people being entrepreneurial. The idea of a “bigger piece of the pie” is exactly what Friedman was saying and it went right over your head. The pie isn’t finite, Bake more pie.
I continue to offer new ideas that you reject by way of ignoring them.
how bout this one;
Instead of raising the minimum wage by decree of law, raise it by offer of incentive. Businesses who start employees @ x rate will receive y % in quarterly or annual tax discount. This would require ending crony capitalism and flattening the tax code as well as an overhaul to our system of incorporation, none of which I am opposed to but by overhaul I mean remove government and bureaucracy from private enterprise.
“Tired”=”angry”? …..non-sequitur …..
Very interesting article, thank you.
Good Article. “My poverty is situational, not generational.” Sums it up very nicely. That’s what this assistance is designed for. It’s designed to help out during this situation not to be a lifetime supplement. I recently left the Military. My wife is pregnant with our first child. I have a broken ankle and can’t work. It’s not a permanent disability but I still can’t provide any income. It’s so frustrating to hear people complain about “That guy has a tattoo, a nice care, and a nice phone. He shouldn’t be on MaineCare.” It’s a situational poverty (I wouldn’t even call it poverty, more of a feeling of extended financial anxiety). All that stuff came along long before I was in this situation.
I also really like what you had to say about time. My pregnant wife is the one who works to support us right now (You can imagine how I feel about that!) So for her to get MaineCare she has to take a day off from work, drive to Augusta (45 minutes) wait in line for 2-3 hours. Speak with a person. Find out that the person we called forgot to tell her to bring this, this and this. So we go home, and do it all over again another day! That’s expensive. Lost wages and the price of travel add up quickly!
More testimony like yours would do wonders in helping people realize that the people they are demonizing as lazy, parasitic (or worse), are in many cases, just people who have hit a bump in the road. Best of luck in your recovery.
That is a lot to deal with. Wishing you the best and less stressful and difficult times ahead.
You hear about the people that “use” the system all the time but you never hear about the people that are on the system but are trying to get off it. Thank-you for letting it be know that there are some people trying to better them selves..
I see both sides of that coin, the trouble is the ones that honestly try and get off of the system get the rug pulled out from under them and get kicked in the teeth to boot. As soon as they get a paycheck almost everything dries up for assistance, having no real savings makes the transition very tough. The system needs to be set up so an individual will get weaned off of the system over the course of a year or so.
In 1974 I worked for a company that skipped out and left 750+ workers without their last two week paychecks. We were told to go down to the Department of Labor on Canal Street where we would get “help.” On my way down to Canal Street I passed a gas station with a sign “attendant wanted.” When I got to the D.O.L. office there was a line out their front door, and back all the way to Essex Street (about four city blocks away)
I went back to the gas station and took their offer of a job.
If the minimum wage became a living wage, an individual would not need a year.
I have a BIG problem with the richest corporation in the world, using our social safety net to subsidize its labor costs. Utterly unjustifiable. Let’s “wean” THEM!
I don’t believe in welfare, personal or corporate.
so you must believe things like corporations should pay a livable wage as the minimum, which would be closer to $12/hr if they offer health insurance in rural Maine. You must believe also that companies that pollute should being paying a higher tax to contribute to the health care costs they create, right?
Having owned a business myself in years past I believe that the employee works at the pleasure of the owner of the business. A wage is agreed upon when the new worker is hired, a days work for a days pay.
I always paid more than my competitors in both wages and benefits. One thing that never changed though is that it was my company and not my employee’s, any talk of unionizing my business would have resulted in the termination of all involved, closing the business if necessary. I will not be held hostage by anyone.
So that was replying without answering…nice.
Could you employees live and feel financially secure off from the paycheck received by your company? If not then your company is receiving welfare for the services that the government must then provide to the employee to make up for the failure of the company not paying them a livable wage.
Yes, my employees lived quite well off of what I paid them, of course that is always subject to an individuals money management, or lack of.
I see you had to be prompted to answer that poster’s direct question. You try and take what someone says and control it. Very obvious.
It is NOT “always subject to money management”…. There IS such a thing as “not enough to live — regardless of management skills, to lack thereof.
High income people land in bankruptcy, while many poor stretch a dollar to its limit…
Time to challenge the idea that a non-livable job is better than no job at all. Cheap labor is VERY expensive not only to the well-being of workers’ families but to taxpayers..
Capital is not “entitled” to the sort of inhuman conditions its “market power” would allow it; it can and should be checked by the “civic power” of citizens.
Collective bargaining is a basic human right, outlined in the Universal Declaration, and correctly protected activity.
It is not an instrument of your enslavement.
We “let the market decide” back in the day, when endless work weeks, child labor, starvation and a shockingly short life expectancy was the norm….. Many want that sort of desperation again. NOT what “freedom” looks like.
so we raise the minium wage to what… $11 an hour? that is twice what it is now. Those are for entry level, and menial labor positions.
now the people who have had their income subsidized by various welfare programs will loose there benfits if they are working a 30-39 hour week as is. They will now be able to afford the cost of living rent/food/gas on their own but will not have any more disposable income and no more free time than before. So given the opportunity I believe many people will just work half the hours 15-20 to avoid losing wage based benefits so they will keep their previous wage/benefit ratio but with twice the free time. I don’t think raising the minimum wage will alone end peoples dependance and reliance on welfare. Raise the minimum wage end welfare, lower taxes, as an incentive to allow employers to hire people at the same rate while not decreasing revenue.
Of course more people are “trying to get off it” than we realize. They’re efforts are not visible to us, nor should they, necessarily, be.
The wait can be horrendous in line for hours. I once went into the health and human services office for liheap help for two mentally challenged women. A representative finally took pity on me and helped me with their applications. If she hadn’t I would have had to go back another day and wait again. This is a very good article Heather wrote about the whole situation. Don’t feel bad about asking for help Heather, your situation will change, you have the right attitude.
I used to get really tired when I was working 60-80 hours a week to dig myself out of poverty. I’ve been poor before and I made sure that I got out of it and will never go back.
By the grace of God, you’ll never go back? Never say never.
Perhaps, but I will work those same long hours doing ANY kind of work to keep from being poor. I own my home, have little debt and a work ethic that provides me with my motivation.
Same here. My kids are grown. I have no mortgage, or debt of any kind, and a work ethic that is second to none. I hope to be off to Florida for the winters within the next couple of years. I was fortunate enough to grow up in a time when the American dream was still within reach, if you were willing to work for it. I don’t think it is as easy today as it used to be.
…..little comfort to those who ARE working 80 hours per week for “business friendly” wages, only to endure the cruel, judgemental glares of fellow shoppers as they swipe an EBT card…..
Wages are lower now than when you were working your way up, and that is every bit a matter of public policy. Why would today’s hardworking people deserve less than you?
How the hell would you know what kind of wages I made “on my way up”?
I’ve done some pretty nasty work for not much money. I didn’t deserve anything, I earned it.
I have no idea what YOU made! I DO know, that statistically, and overall, wages have steadily gone down relative to the cost of living. Minimum wage has lost half of its purchasing power in less than a generation!
Did workers in better times, operating within a more favorable public policy framework “earn” it? “Deserve what they earned?”. Absolutely! Do the same workers of today, dealing with de-regulation, “deserve” lower wages? Absolutely NOT!
The purchasing power of the declining US dollar is going down for everyone, all the more reason I want to keep my money for myself and my family.
……all the more reason, then, to raise the minimum wage to a living wage! Because the more the purchasing power declines, the more money WE have to spend on food stamps etc. to subsidize eages.
A higher minimum would allow more of the profits now being funneled to Arkansas, to stay in Maine communities and circulate.
not necessarily. corporate response to an elevation of minimum wage typically takes one of two paths. Cut employee hours and consolidate work duties effectively you get a small raise and twice the work.
raise price on merchandise and pass it on to the customers.
typically shareholders and board members will be the last to feel the pinch when minimum wage is raised. Employees are typically the first route because you don’t want to alienate your customers. Look at what is happening with shaws. They have laid off fired more than 1200 employees in the last 2 years. They have eliminated hundreds of full time positions, that had great benefits. I had worked part time for them for awhile when I first got out of school and I saw it coming apart before I left. It has little to do with minimum wage (there was a .25c increase a few years ago) but does have to do with the economic climate of maine and the u.s.
The price of merchandise is what the market will bear; regardless of cost. That is why corporate profits are a larger share of GDP now — they did NOT ” pass the savings on to you”.
You are saying we cannot have an economy where employers pay a livable wage, and taxes; decently paid employees pay taxes and buy products and services ; we are free to spend more public money on public goods and less on social safety net programs….
I say, that is how an economy is supposed to work! But you MUST not be afraid to govern public institutions (corporations). I am sick of subsidizing the richest heirs in America!
I never said we should subsidize them. you ever think of it this way…
If all these people working this horrible minimum wage jobs didn’t have the “social safety nets” would they take the jobs in the first place? probably not they would move on and do something else until they had enough to live. So in order for these places to pay a “liveable” wage they would have to meet the market demand for labor.
the whole Idea of liveable wage is so subjective. what is liveable wage in your eyes? 2 people living together in bangor working 40 hours a week for min wage could live quite comfortably least by my standards but I grew up of simple means maybe we have different baselines.
We ARE subsidizing Wal Mart heirs. They hand new hires a W4 with one hand, and an application for welfare with the other. Welfare subsidizes their low wages to the tune of a $half million PER STORE! That’s on top of the tax breaks and direct corporate welfare they get.
You worry about hardworking people feeling “entitled” to a livable wage? Why should we accept that the Walton Family is “entitled” to rake in the fruits of American’s labor while taxpayers foot the bill?
Pay your freight, or lose your charter! It’s what self-governance, and “personal responsibility” looks like.
blatantly untrue. walmart does not handout welfare applications of any sort at the time of employment. My girlfriend, her cousin, my sisters best friend, and many other people I am close with have worked for walmart over the last few years and no one has ever been handed a welfare application.
That doesn’t mean new employees won’t take it one themselves to apply but your blatant hate of walmart seems to cloud your logic.
you also didn’t answer my question what is a liveable wage? you are more concerned with ranting and using lots of capitalization in your retorts that you aren’t contributing anything substantial past emotions.
its lost its purchasing power because of the federal reserve printing money to pay the interest our skyrocketing debt. in a few years $15 an hour won’t be a livable wage when milk cost $20.00 a gallon.
I am as outraged as you are by the Fed’s “quantitative easing” — welfare for Wall Street ….
good it works both ways though. The welfare/warefare state that spreads debt and death is not good for anyone.
Like northernmaine I abhor corporate welfare. Taking the toils of another mans labor to give to those who didn’t earn it honestly is immoral.
If you are concerned with the welfare of the poor and need start a charity.
People neither want nor deserve the indignity of relying on charity. Their hard work should be enough to sustain them.
So many people ARE making money “the old fashioned way”, but aren’t getting a proper share of what they produce for their employer.
An honest day’s pay for an honest day’s work is not what “the market” wants. It isn’t enough to educate, or work yourself into the middle class; you MUST negotiate your way in.
maybe if they didnt buy booze and cigarettes with their ebt cards. maybe if they werent 400lb buying more frozen chicken nuggets and icecream.
wages aren’t lower the dollar is just worth a lot less.
Show me a walmart (because you were demonizing them earlier) who works 80 hours a week. yeh there are some folks out there that work 3 jobs to make ends meet but they are the exception not the rule.
Americans log more paid, working hours than anyone on this planet! Look it up!
Poverty is NOT a function of poor work ethic. These people ARE the rule, sadly. Working three jobs to live in poverty is detrimental to families and society. Why should Americans be expected to work 100 hours per week to eek out an existence? Because Communist China is willing to lavish companies in corporate welfare and crack down on any worker unrest?
Cheap labor is not an entitlement.
“The issue isn’t jobs; slaves had jobs. The issue is wages.” -Jim Hightower
I wouldn’t want to have to support myself on minimum wage or have to find my way through life again. It’s hard being a young person these days. You may think most are useless but that’s unfair and it’s hard to make it today. Most can’t afford the down payment on a home or car.
I see many young people these days, including my kids that are doing quite well for themselves. I think everybody has worth, some just try harder than others.
I have received many looks of discontent and outright anger when I have pulled out my Maine EBT card to pay for things, especially when they see my iPhone or my expensive foreign car. Before the judgement starts let me say that the iPhone is necessary for my business so I can take credit card purchases and I saved for 2 years for my phone. My car I bought before I couldn’t work and I chose it so my children would be über safe. I now can’t afford to fix it and if I sell it I can’t afford to buy another. I am hard working and college educated, I want to work so i try and work a little on my own. I have medical conditions that won’t allow me too. Serious medical conditions, like having had 2 strokes.
The hassle and hopelessness I feeling dealing with DHHS will one day cause me to have another stroke. Every month something is wrong, I take the day and drive down to the office, wait forever with children, and finally I am told I either forgot some previously unmentioned paperwork, or “oops! Sorry.” These workers are always nice and helpful, and I can’t put the blame on their over worked, understaffed office. The blame is on the idea, that I really just want to be poor. I don’t want better for my kids. I don’t want to maintain good relations with my landlord and it is ok to pay then whenever my money gets posted, or my electric bill isn’t a concern until I have a disconnection notice.
For the people that say, ” they just live of the system” I say so what! The very few that do, as most people try to get ahead, those few are living a life instability and hopelessness. The living off the state way of life is no way to live.
Like the author, I am not poor, just temporarily poor.
Sell your expensive car. When I get stuck i have to sell things I own . I go without when i have money so that dose not have to happen very often.
Selling one car and buying another; whether another reliable vehicle, or one you and you ilk deem “suitable” for one of the poster’s means…. is VERY costly in terms of process. People end up worse off! The same goes for the iPhone…
How ridiculous to expect the poor to endure even FURTHER financial hardship in order to re-make themselves into YOUR vision of a proper poor person.
Rest assured, unlike corporate welfare recipients, eligibility for the poor is strictly scrutinized, and the fraud rate is statistically minute.
We are no more “entitled” to judge those who use our social safety net than those who use our roads, libraries, airports, schools, parks, tax credits etc.!
The poor ARE “entitled” to respect as fellow human beings.
If she would have save the money when she had it she would not be in that position. I bet she has internet too. I use dial up even tho I could afford internet . My cell phone plan only cost me $25 a month . I am frugal with minutes . I always lived below my means. the few times I went 6 month without making a total of $2,000 I got by. just saying this lady seems to have a lot . She could go without a few things in the mean time. No one helps me when I am stuck and I do not ask. If I needed food for my kid I would sell most everything i owned first. When I got back on my feet I would put money away first and buy things as I need them . I see so many people with toys I could never dream of like the laid off mill workers .When they had money they did out help out the less fortunate? Or save for a rainy day ? Then when they did get back on thier feet they were still way ahead of the game .
You have an issue with the social safety net catching people too early; before they hit rock bottom…. …before they are crushed…. No, we don’t require the liquidation of families, and, if the point is a “hand up”, not a “hand out”, then it’s a wise one.
Your vision of big pickup trucks with snow sleds, quads…. toys parked outside a food pantry after the mill closed. I admit, I noticed it too. Many of those things, likely were for sale, but it takes time to find a buyer…..
Other countries would have REQUIRED generous severance, retraining and community redevelopment packages to compensate workers and communities. Their laid off workers kept their dignity in similar situations. Why can’t ours? Why do we accept the humiliation of turning to the social safety net, or the desperation of abject poverty? We are a democratic society and don’t have to.
About 15 years ago i was laid off my $8 an hour job I sat through a hold day class to get help for education. I was told sorry we should have told you we give priority to laid off mill workers. I saw Walmart donating truck loads of food . I wanted to fill my truck with food come home with those $10,000 toys and resell them . I ended up in serious Money problems . New baby to feed no meaningful work . I cashed my 401k . Granted that was a mistake but the only opinion I had except begging for help. Times got better but a learned a lesson . even when I have $5,000 in the back I still drive a $1,000 car. Some people refuse to go without things they do not NEED. I believe in helping those who help themselves and really need help. Not the ones who have way more than a lot of people will ever have.
….and a neighbor of mine was told she could not access help provided to laid off mill workers after he husband was laid off because they lived over the county line — only workers who lived in the same county as the mill… It isn’t fair, at all, and it I, too resented the “targeting” of workers from that particular mill, when others, laid off through no fault of their own though from a smaller company, went without. I resented the system, but not the
I believe in targeting the “need”, not certain groups….
I see the sort of thrift you describe all around me, every day in our small community. It’s alive and well.
amen bro. nothing wrong with driving bomber!
My hat is off to you. Nice to know that some others have handled tough times in their life the same way I did. For 2 years i lived in a SMALL camp with no plumbing. I never considered asking for government “help”.
I remember living in Lagrange with an outhouse out back. I never got any help but i got by.
“Me, me , me”….always the same with people like you.
Just so we are clear, I don’t have the title to the expensive car, it is not wholly owned by me. After the sale of my car I would have enough to buy a scooter. And I need a car, it is not a luxury.
Before I was sick, I had NO DEBT!! I had plenty saved and I owned my car outright. I planned for my children. I didn’t take vacations, but I saved for one. Then I was sick, and I had too much to qualify for help. So I paid, and paid and paid. Our entire family has lived in cabin without running water, BUT! Just so you know DHHS does not consider it safe for children, and to prevent them from getting involved we now live in an energy efficient small home, my kids share a room.
My point is….. Stop judging welfare people on some vision of poverty. I have less than you, and the things I might have I might be trapped in. My iPhone was free by waiting for my phone upgrade for 2 years. Getting out of my contract was over $300.
I still do some work, just not 40 hours and my husband works under 40 hours because he has to sometimes take care off me or the kids when I can’t.
Stop being angry with people that have temporary poverty, they don’t want to be there either. The system and the anger of others make it a hard battle out. I would have been a lot easier to get help with expenses before we hit bottom.
what kinda car is it? you said u don’t have money to fix it? is it broke? if so than maybe a scooter is a better alternative. It isn’t wholly owned by you? sounds like a bank owns rest of it and are holding the title. If you want to get out from under a car payment talk to the bank about trading in for a cheaper ride and refinancing. go see glen @ bumper2bumper!
Don’t feel the need to defend yourself to ignorance, but I understand why you would. People , most often, need a reliable car (if they have children, live in more rural areas where there is no public transportation,etc) Everyone’s situation is different. It is low class and ignorant to judge what another person or family does or how they live and compare it to how they live. So self centered.
You will do fine.
Me too. I sell the toys when I need the money. Buy them again when I have enough to afford them.
FYI, many phones will do what your iphone does for much less money, and many domestic and imported cars are just as safe as what your driving.
I’m always puzzled how people with incomes I know are lower than mine have all of this expensive stuff, between my wife and I we make well over 85k a year and we have no new vehicles, no iphones, no jet skis or other toys. We don’t take trips to Aruba or Florida. No expensive toys of any kind. I do have an old snowmobile that I keep patched together so I can go ice fishing at my favorite lake.
I think in many cases it comes down to not what you make but what you spend it on.
There are limits to that.
Everything has limits,I love it when I see someone at the store paying for their groceries with the EBT card and the cart is full of highly processed ready to eat name brand food. We work all day and cook most of our grub from scratch, why can’t the ones that lay around all day?
If I had my way,I would only permit unprocessed food on EBT. Poor people would be better nourished if they cooked from scratch, but Big Food corporations want that share of the EBT money.
They don’t “lay around all day,” though. They mostly WORK! …..for sub livable wages,
that ain’t true bro. ppl on SSD working disability (plenty of that in maine) can only work 20 hours in a week otherwise they have to pay %50 of their earnings back (which obviously encourages dependance and laziness) 20 hour work week… I wish that is a day and a half for me and many others.
I believe WIC is only unprocessed/raw foods I might be wrong but I remember someone telling me that once upon a time. SNAP (foodstamps) I know you can’t but anything prepared/cooked/hot. EBT cash is open season it can be used at an atm to get actual cash money. It can be used for anything including illegal activities.
SSDI is for disabled people. While I don’t agree with how they are treated by the system, I don’t believe they are lazy at all.
EBT cannot be exchanged for cash at an ATM. The same card may be loaded with a cash benefit for various reasons, though. WIC specifies which food which brand how much… Their contracts with food companies though… Highly processed cereals? Ugh!
you are completely wrong EBT cash benifits can be redeemed at atms with Quest logo. right from the pinetree card site.
http://www.dirigohealth.maine.gov/Pages/faq.html#faq_22
Yes SSDI is for disabled but they have what is called “working disabled” which entitles people to benefits if they work less than 20 hours in a week.
There is a difference between a “cash” benefit and a “food benefit”. Recipients of SNAP often do not have a “cash” benefit on their card. They are NOT interchangeable.
you are arguing semantics with me dude. EBT CASH is a kind of benefit. It is how people receive their welfare. EBT stands for Electronic Benefits Transfer card. It can be used for obtaining cash or food depending on what welfare programs you have been cleared for. I understand they are not interchangeable and you talking to me like I am the moron after you were blatantly wrong is ironic…
You are correct however about SNAP recipients not always receiving cash benefits but, those who receive cash benefits almost always will receive food stamps. The worst thing about welfare is that getting one thing often leads to an easier time getting something else.
apparently the moderator hasn’t approved my comment. you were still wrong. I obviously understand SNAP is a different program than welfare cash, my point being that people on welfare can get cash money off their card to spend on mehh w/e drugs sex rock’n’roll.
Don’t be nosy and watch what other people are buying. Just be concerned with your own business in this case. It is much more classy and decent.
In my job I’m surrounded by them and the liberals that enable them. can’t help it.
Benefits are limited, regardless of what they buy, so why should it matter to you? It doesn’t cost you any more. Their priorities do not necessarily denote “waste fraud and abuse”. That is, actually, exceedingly rare and dealt with harshly.
You disagree with how eligibility is determined; how poor is poor.
Take it up with those in power; don’t take it out on the less fortunate.
“I think in many cases it comes down to not what you make but what you spend it on.”
Been there, done that. And you are 100% right. I have one relative who has constant financial trouble. i won’t go into details of all the “stuff” she buys while at the same time not paying bills until the disconnect notices pile up. Another relative makes 4 times what we do and is lucky to have money for gum most of the time. And I know we have several times what they do in our emergency fund.
I don’t have any toys or take trips, so don’t worry.
You can not buy a new car or even a used car, when you don’t have income. Being that I don’t have the ability to sell my current car outright, how would I do this?? If I sold it the money I have wouldn’t buy a car. Don’t assume I drive a foreign car because I won’t buy a domestic. I drive this current car because I have to.
Most people that are suddenly poor sell everything and cut back on everything BEFORE they ask for government help.
Try and be more understanding of people that are currently, temporarily poor, rather than think they have more than you and they got it for free!
It was not my intent to personally attack you, I was making some generalizations from my observations here locally. I apoligize.
I am currently making the same hourly wage as I did in 2000. The cost of living has increased, so I now feel that I am a member of the working poor. Don’t have health insurance, but I can’t afford to take a day off from work to see if I qualify for Mainecare-most likely they would say I “make to much income”to qualify. When I am sick or get injured-all I can do is hope for the best. I wish the top 2% of the population who make over $200,000 could walk a mile in my shoes-but I doubt they’d make it more than a few feet.
No, like Mitt, they could not hack it. And they cannot empathize either and don’t even try. Instead, they blame those who fall into hard circumstances. Mitt and those like him were always comfortable. His father left him well off even before he earned anything on his own. He always had a good “safety net.” Very insulated from what the majority of the citizens in this country go through.
If you were in Mitt Romney’s fathers position what would you have done? Kick him out on his own, pennyless? Give all of your wealth to charity?
I doubt it.
I have no where near what Romney does and yes, I give a lot (per my income) to shelters, (people and animals), muscular dystrophy organization and others.
Know of what you speak.
You didn’t answer my question, If you were as wealthy as the Romneys what shape would you leave your kids in?
You don’t answer others, but seem to think you can order someone else.
I cannot relate to someone like Mitt Romney. He never has had to worry about where his next meal would come from. Far from it. He inherited great wealth. He should realize a lot of Americans do not. But he seems to have very little empathy for many.
I would share my inherited, (or otherwise) wealth. I would help my children (education,etc.) but I also would give a lot to charities and help those who really need it.
And you don’t think the Romneys have given millions to charity?
It isn’t what Mitt does with the money; it’ how he acquired it at Bain.
Buy a company. Load the company to the hilt with debt, to pay Bain shareholders up front.
Now the company is operating under a huge debt burden, and fails. Bain takes the money and runs away, leaving creditors and workers holding the bag.
Corporations, for most of our history, had to prove their worth to the public good in return for their “big government charters”. Time to return to that…
I know what we can do, we will take ALL of the money away from anyone that has $250,000 or more and distribute it equally among the poor. how’s that?
I guarantee the former rich would have it all back in 5 years or less. Some people can make and manage money and some can’t.
People with these socialist utopian dreams where everyone is at the same level regardless of ambition or talent or completely delusional, it’s never worked and never will. There will always be those that have more than you, get used to it.
Our government has behaved rather like a “Robin Hood in Reverse”…
Corporations are externalizing machines; shifting costs onto society. We can stop it, and make them actually pay for things.
Democratic societies cannot be maintained by kneeling before a market. Your vision amounts to corporate feudalism.
You sound like the Mill managers of the late 1800’s. The people who do the actual work were paid pennies, and the people who simply “owned” the mill made fortunes. Am I saying this is wrong? You bet! The worker with out the owner is useless, BUT the owner without the worker is a pauper.
As a former employeer I always treated my employees as part of the team, when the company had a good year gave out bonuses, I didn’t have to but I did. on the flip side of that I was the boss and I assumed all of the risk when I started the business, none of the employees risked anything and I would pay them before myself, so I made the rules, not the employees.
I guess she is going to be a “regular” contributor to the BDN.
Wonderful story – gripping and compelling. It’s true – people get tired when the gas to drive somewhere only to be turned away at a window could have been that evening’s meal or anything essential. But, you forgot the fear that people feel when they do have beyond poverty – the fear that something will happen that was beyond their control and the good will be taken away, mixed with the hope that hard times are behind them.
Gawd what a broad brush you use lady.
I lived in a neighborhood in Worcester Massachusetts which was poverty like Maine doesn’t have in it’s cities. I’ve seen poorer rural people, but not city folks.
The woman down the street from my apartment worked for Zayer’s all day, and then went to beauty school at night. She had no car, and I would often see her pulling a cart full of groceries for the two children in her home. She was on those children like white on rice. They were always well dressed, and you seldom saw them except when they were waiting for the school bus, or were on an errand for their mother. In the summer they mowed lawns, but they had to push their lawnmowers two miles to get to the green side of town where the lawns and the money were.
She got her beauty school degree. I went to see her graduate. She and her children moved out of Main South and into a nicer neighborhood. Last I heard from her her oldest boy had been accepted to Georgetown University with a full-boat ride.
Looks like she will be on the welfare gravy train for a long time. Maybe she should get a real job.
“Maybe” ALL “jobs”should be “real”! Looks like Mal-Wart and its Big-box ilk will be “on the gravy train for a long time”!
I don’t shop wal-mart so I don’t support them
I don’t either. But we cannot govern our public institutions (corporations like WalMart are just that) as consumers! As consumers we are weak. You govern them as citizens. Or Founders were VERY strict in their control of corporate power
well walmart isn’t a public institution. It is a private business enterprise, just because it is publicly traded doesn’t mean it is subject to “citizen governance” it is subject to “shareholder governance”.
socialism = government owns and operates corporations
fascism = corporations own and operate the government.
Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them- A. Einstein.
Collectivist thinking is leading us to one of the absolutist states above neither will end well.
If you sell Fake maple syrup It is 5 years in Jail and a felony. Walmart beaks law all the time Why are they not in jail Is my corn syrup is not maple syrup then those 55db gain rabbit ears are not 55 db gain . They bribe countries like mexico china etc, I just say no don’t make the, pay more but make them play by the same rules we have to . Break the law then go to JAIL.
what are you rambling about? “fake maple syrup” is a pretty relative term. I have been collecting and boiling sap for over 15 years, when I was a little kid I loved aunt Jemima’s after our first batch of sugar it ruined that stuff for me however, I don’t call it fake maple syrup. The ingredients are clearly labeled on the back and there are no extravagant claims of its origins. It is a processed corn syrup based maple flavored topping. If they were bottling motor oil and selling it as maple syrup maybe you would have a case.
55db gain rabbit ears you hook them up to an oscilloscope and signal generator and measure them?
Don’t be pissy because walmart stuff is mediocre quality. It is no big secret there stuff is all imported junk from overseas. They offer several levels of quality but if you want the real deal stuff you will have to go elsewhere such as radioshack and pay a bit more.
My point is fraud is fraud . I do not sell Maple syrup . I do know a bit about antennas . The point that they pass of those as 55DB of gain is just as dishonest. When you can take a piece of coax and strip some of the outer jacket and it works just as good if not better . Only that has 1/millionth the gain . Deception to make an extra dollar. Like those HDMI cables Best Buy sells for $200 that claim such better picture quality . Hey I can generate noise with a cheap piece of coax too . But that dose not give more gain what they imply .
buyer beware dude. Selling a HDMI cabing for $200 and claiming it gives better signal quality might be dishonest but isn’t fraud it is not a crime. If you want $5 ebay HDMI cable from hong kong no one is stopping you and they typically work as advertised.
I am not starting a technical argument about quality of products but in different tech areas certain brands become synonymous with quality and others not so much. Car audio for example a 1000w pyle amp won’t hold a candle to a 300w kicker or JL amp. Pyle advertises their amps at 1000w which makes for a good advertising sticker on the box. If some young highshcool kids get sucked into a too good to be true purchase then chalk it up as a life lesson they should research and investigate before committing to large purchases!
My point is It may not be fraud But to me if you lie to make sometime sound like it is something it is not it should be fraud . At the very least it is dishonest. I do not advocate for more laws but when you make laws like fake maple syrup laws in Vermont . They should simply make a law saying false claims are a lie . My point I had with Walmart was this 85 year old man up the road from me bought those 55DB gain rabbit ears for $70 . I set him up with a piece of coax zip tied to his phone line got all local station full signal for free. I estimated my antenna at about -3DB . Maybe being dishonest or misleading to make money is not against the law but it should be. I can tell you are probably more educated than I am . I respect you opinion . As far as integrity I see most big business as having little. Most people are not smart enough to know the truth they read books by the cover . Like the wireless N routers have 10 times the range of wireless G . Not in the real world . But yet they push that stuff to make a sale knowing full well people will think that when they buy the stuff. Thanks for you reply .
“They should simply make a law saying false claims are a lie” that seems redundant and not really a law more of a decree haha. I believe there are false advertising regulations/laws on the books in some states though they are extremely ambiguous and difficult to enforce. I agree we see a lot of people tryin to get theirs, and don’t care if they have to lie cheat steal to get it. Not saying its right but it isn’t the governments place to regulate morality if one is not depriving someone of life liberty or pursuit of happiness.
Now I am curious about this 55db gain rabbit ear antenna from walmart you’re talking about. because rabbit ears are typical passive antennas and do not have much gain. I have one of the square flat ones that had a small signal booster for 12db gain which doesnt really do squat indoors. A (true) 55db antenna would need to have a physically large surface area and have a constant power input. I can’t find anything on walmarts site claiming that in a bunny ear form.
I found
http://www.seaboom.com/scripts/product.asp?PRDCODE=1557-ANT1251R&REFID=FR
not sure if that has a true 55db gain but looks like it could be legit, not bunny ear tho.
Also there is a big difference in N and G standards. N is twice as fast and has a 25-30% longer range using similar broadcasting equipment. I have never seen claims of 10,000% range increases.
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Well you see my point . I might not be able to say it perfectly well. I do not think those 55DB ones are still on the self at Walmart . But when they were they made millions . Wireless routers are not all coming though now like they were a years ago saying 10 time the range . But still they made millions more. 55DB of Gain would mean to me that they amplify the signal 316,000 times . Maybe I could set up my own SETI station . I would say to not waste too much on an antenna that is indoors. You might be able to amplify the noise . Overload the front end of the receiver but not the true signal quality. If you believe that Back of set antenna can pull in 316,000 times more signal than a piece of coax with the outer jacket stripped to right length more power to you. Most antennas gain is made by the antenna being more directional . I have built many antennas . Another thing that gets me is color TV antennas or digital TV antennas . Just a marketing tool. I am not an engineer but have a fascination with antennas . I would just like to see non deceptive sales practices.
If WalMart wants to be a private business, it can jolly well turn over its corporate charter it got from “big gummit”. Charters once carried strict conditions. The history of how they have been governed is interesting.
The Boston Tea Party was a protest against corporate tyranny more than anything.
You get a days work for a days pay, if your skillset isn’t much greater than my dogs then don’t expect 100k a year and a corner office. Gaining marketable skills and educating yourself go a long way toward prospering.
“Occupy” us largely educated people; who went into debt only ro find low wages or no job at all….. If you don’t get paid enough to even keep you alive for that “day”, then, no — you are NOT getting an honest days pay for an honest days work.
When you employ someone, you are buying their time; part of life Not just “skills”. There is a cost to provide that labor, and who should pay? Taxpayers via the social safety net? Or the users themselves?
There is a new debate about living wages opening up, and the asinine justifications for low wages are already being much more widely rejected than they were.
Low wages are bad for the economy, as Henry Ford understood….
Funny thing is, I know people that work right at the Presque Isle Wal-Mart. They make more than minimum wage and seem to be quite happy with their job.
The “occupy” movement is nothing but class warfare. Take all of the money from the millionares and billionares to satisfy the jelousy that these people have and next they are going to come after the middle class like me because I will have more then they do. It won’t stop until everyone dispite ambition, skill or creativity is at the same level. I don’t think thats fair at all.
Occupy takes issue with how the millionaires and billionaires got their money. Between government largesse, and Wall Street corruption that dwarfs the Madoff case…….. While hardworking people suffer the consequences?
Is this your idea of fair? Rich people march on Washington every day, and the rest of us are supposed to simply accept their dictates….
A fortune earned honestly? Fine. Corporations? Fine, too but we want to be served by them; we don’t want to be ruled by them.
What exactly do you mean by “served by them”?
Do Corporations need boundries? Absolutely
Should big money stay out of politics? Absolutely Good luck finding many politicians that would agreee with that one.
Easy. I voted for Jill Stein, though if Rock Anderson had been on the ballot.
Those of us that work for a living are being taxed into poverty supporting those that don’t work.
Not only are tax rates on labor higher than those on capital manipulation, but you are spending 3x more of YOUR tax dollars on the wealthy; corporate welfare etc. than on the poor. Many has their poverty thrust on them by the very Wall Street parasites you subsidize.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I DON”T BELIEVE IN CORPORATE WELFARE!
If a business isn’t run correctly let it fail, businesses fail all the time. When they do someone else will come in and pick up the slack.
…but you believe in market wages. Trouble is, “the market” WANTS and DEMANDS government -subsidized wages. Businesses who can get the government to pay for more of their costs enjoy a competitive advantage.
The market pushes wages far below a livable threshold, the safety net gets stretched. M
All governments know they are no more than three meals away from revolution — even Bush, who expanded food stamps over the shrieks of his own party.