NEWTOWN, Conn. — President Barack Obama, speaking at a memorial service for the victims of a mass shooting at a Connecticut elementary school, said on Sunday the United States was not doing enough to protect its children and pledged to launch an effort to reduce violence.

“We can’t tolerate this anymore. These tragedies must end. And to end them we must change,” Obama said at a somber interfaith service.

“In the coming weeks I’ll use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow citizens from law enforcement to mental health professionals to parents and educators in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this,” he said. “Because what choice do we have? We can’t accept events like this as routine.”

The comments were among Obama’s strongest on gun violence, but he stopped short — again — of issuing an explicit call for gun control or reform that would curtail gun owners’ rights.

Similar to previous speeches at similarly tragic events, Obama was not specific in saying how his renewed effort to reduce violence would play out.

But his remarks did suggest where he would start: by mentioning mental health professionals, law enforcement officers, and educators, the president carefully refrained from taking on gun enthusiasts and their powerful lobbyists.

He also made clear — perhaps in a nod to conservative Democrats and Republicans who are wary of rhetoric supporting gun control — that the cause of gun violence like that in Connecticut was complex.

“We will be told that the causes of such violence will be complex and that is true. No single law, no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society,” he said.

“But that can’t be an excuse for inaction. Surely we can do better than this.”

And in a nod to anti-gun activists, the president suggested — at least implicitly — a that the constitutional protection of the right to bear arms should not prevent action on the wider problem.

“Are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom?” he asked.

Obama has called for changes to federal gun laws before, including offering support for a renewed ban on assault weapons.

An earlier ban expired in 2004, and the president reiterated his backing for a new one in an October debate with Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney.

But during his first term, Obama disappointed anti-gun activists by not making a more aggressive push to make guns less easily available in much of the country. After a shooting rampage at a Sikh temple inWisconsin this summer, the president said such events were happening with “too much regularity” but also stopped short of calling for new gun control laws.

On Friday, the day of the Connecticut shooting, Obama seemed to indicate a higher priority for dealing with gun violence and a desire to navigate the issue’s tricky political implications.

“We’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics,” he said.

His remarks on Sunday echoed that call.

Picture of the crime

While townspeople grieved, investigators examined forensic evidence and scoured the crime scene in a process likely to extend for weeks. Many more witnesses needed to be interviewed, possibly including children who survived the attack, state police Lieutenant Paul Vance said.

Some of the bodies have been turned over to families, he said.

“We have the best of the best working on this case. … Our goal is to paint a complete picture so that we all know and the public knows exactly what happened here,” Vance said.

Painting part of that picture, Connecticut Governor Dannel Malloy said the gunman shot his way through a school door “using several rounds” before beginning to kill adults and children inside, then killed himself as police closed in.

“He discharged to make an opening and then went through it, went to the first classroom … went to the second classroom. We surmise that it was during the second classroom episode that he heard responders coming and apparently at that, decided to take his own life,” Malloy said on the ABC show “This Week.”

“This sick fellow, you know, clearly mentally ill, killed his mother, proceeded to go on and kill a great number of people,” Malloy added.

Vance said Lanza’s mother, Nancy Lanza – found dead on Friday at her home – was shot several times.

Townspeople and visitors took solace in church on Sunday. Mass at St. Rose Catholic church was packed. The priest’s announcements included news that the Christmas pageant rehearsal would go on as planned, but without 6-year-old Olivia Engel, killed on Friday before she could play the role of an angel.

Memorials draw mourners

Makeshift memorials appeared in this affluent town of 27,000 people about 80 miles from New York City. The largest, festooned with flowers and teddy bears, sat at the end of Dickenson Drive where Sandy Hook Elementary stands.

Residents and visitors streamed past a police roadblock to add to it. One woman knelt down and sobbed violently.

As children walked down the street in the rain, carrying their toys and signs, a man sat on the back of his parked car playing a mournful tune on a violin to accompany them.

“This is a time to come together,” said Carina Bandhaver, 43, who lives in nearby Southbury.

The children who survived will not have to return to the scene of the massacre. They will attend classes at an unused school in a Connecticut town about 7 miles away, school officials said. Classes elsewhere in the town will resume on Tuesday, except at Sandy Hook.

Gun debate

Several Democratic lawmakers called for a new push for U.S. gun restrictions on Sunday, including a ban on military-style assault weapons. Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, the author of an assault-weapons ban that lapsed in 2004, said she would introduce new legislation this week.

Gun rights advocates have countered that Connecticut already has among the strictest gun laws in the nation.

Police were trying to establish the relationship between Adam Lanza, Nancy Lanza and the school, and whether the mother and her sons were frequent visitors to gun ranges, according to a law enforcement official briefed on the investigation.

In addition to the military-style Bushmaster assault rifle, a civilian version of the weapon used by U.S. forces in Afghanistan, police said Lanza carried Glock 10mm and Sig Sauer 9mm handguns into the school.

Nancy Lanza legally owned a Sig Sauer and a Glock, handguns commonly used by police, in addition to the long gun, according to law enforcement officials.

Lanza had struggled at times to fit into the community and his mother pulled him out of school for several years to homeschool him, said Louise Tambascio, the owner of My Place Restaurant, where his mother was a long-time patron.

Edith Honan, Martinne Geller, David Ingram and Chris Francescani, Daniel Trotta and Jim Loney contributed to this report.

Join the Conversation

390 Comments

  1. Obama is the person who can put an end to the violence. He can start by halting drone attacks, then close our military bases overseas and bring our soldiers home.

    1. Obama authorizes the bombing of little babies and toddlers from trailers in New Mexico all day long via the drone program…..the R’s and the D’s are the source of the violence

    2. You make an ironic point that a man committed to ending the violence is in charge of war on other countries. People in the Middle East surely find his comments unamusing.

      1. Of course they find them unamusing, he has continued the neo-con tactic of killing their innocent children

        1. Most likely someone who is starving is more likely to steal, your point, links to your studies?
          Quick summary: We never should have been in Iraq, Afganistan was unavaoidable and has dragged on because our attention was directed to misguided Iraq action. We’re often times to quick to start conflicts and our military spending is way overboard.

        1. And it would be an appropriate comment if the story were about drones or the military but no so regarding this travesty.

    1. You going to raised them. You willing to feed and clothe them, I’m not ! Don’t spend other peoples money unless your willing to spend your own. And yes I believe in God. (perhaps not your version however)

      1. Having a child is very much an economic decision these days. Unfortunatley for your lame argument, so to is the decision of purchasing birth control pills and a box of condoms. Now which one do you think is cheaper? Well, of course the contraception is MUCH cheaper than a medical procedure such as an abortion, that is unless someone like you comes along and is willing to spend other peoples money (Bruce’s and mine) in paying for such a procedure. You’re a fraud.

        1. That is the reason I can not be a faithful Republican. The Jesus/abortion thing.

          I agree with you about spending other people’s money, BUT last time I checked it costs society an average of $225,000 for each child raised (over 18 years) by the State. You can still get an abortion for under a grand, real cost.

          My calculator says abortion is a better deal

        1. I’m not worried about Jesus. I’m more concern with God the Father. Jesus may have only ever been just a really good teacher. But just in case he was of God I do invoke his name in my daily prayers.

          1. oh please, praying to god to save you from your shallow existence as an intellectually desperate online troll, brainwashed and tired…

        2. Why are Republicans so determined to cut social services to needy children in order to preserve tax cuts for the rich when they are also in favor of bringing millions more needy children into the world every year?

  2. Chicago Shootings Spike 49% In November Despite Strict Gun Laws. Hows that gun control working for you Rahm? 192 shootings in Chicagostan. This is only ONE MONTH folks.

  3. Will these attacks be halted by arming the criminals and crazies with another “Fast & Furious” here? Drone attacks on American civilians? Or simply by watching videos of Americans being murdered via satellite while doing nothing to save the victims? Empty words from a man with blood already on his hands.

        1. Indeed…and if one is objective and puts things into proper perspective, one would recognize that Obama has a very good record in this regard, at least compared to his predecessors.

          Though no doubt has plenty of room for improvement, his foreign policy is closer to the Libertarian model I assume Jack prefers, than what the Republicans push…though it’s Obama, so getting a fair shake with the far right is next to impossible.

          1. Obama has a good record? compared to whom? So his policies have caused death in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Lebanon, Egypt, Pakistan, and Syria, and that is only the countries we know about.

            I once defended our military industrial complex. I believed we had to send troops around the world to secure our interests, but I have learned that it is not “our” interest being secured, but the interest of Walmart, Berkshire/Hathaway, and Royal Dutch Shell. We go where the money says.,

          2. Compared to most presidents of the post WW2 era – most recently Bush 2 and Clinton, who I’m still not sure of which is responsible for the death of more innocent Iraqis. It was WW2 that truly gave birth to the MIC, so I generally use that as a distinct marker.

            No disagreement about money, money, money being the driving force. I’m with Smedley Butler – war is a racket.

  4. “You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here’s why.It’s because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he’ll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.CNN’s article says that if the body count “holds up”, this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer’s face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer’s identity? None that I’ve seen yet. Because they don’t sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you’ve just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.You can help by forgetting you ever read this man’s name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news.”
    These remarks were initially attributed to Morgan Freeman. Reportedly, he did not say or write these remarks. They do not make them any less true.

      1. Every time a tragedy like this happens, that is one of the first lines that goes through my head. They are so eager, so vicious to get the gory details, be the first, most exclusive–that even something as simple as facts aren’t important to them. The media is utterly despicable for what they have become and what they do on a daily basis.

        1. I am totally sickened by what happened to those little kids. What is such a tragedy, is it is non-stop talked about on every newscast and cable news show that focues on what this miscreant did, why and how. To glorify his name, whether intended or not, is another injustice to these beautiful little children. All in the name of ratings. I can tell you, I will simply not be a part of it. The President was right, it’s time for these sensless tragedies to end.

          1. You make a good point. To me, I will not watch any national news or cable news until they stop what I percive as an exploitation of this situation. Honestly, I can’t stand watching it anymore.

          2. I completely agree with you. We live in a nation that is more offended by a bare breast than death, and cares more about cats and dogs than people. We will hear about this until the media deems it completed, or until a bigger story pops up. Rather than turn on the news tonight, I will leave the tv off.

    1. I agree. An earlier headline today proclaimed that he shot his mother 4 times in the head. That’s just one example of the media milking it for all they can get. I really don’t remember the names of the perpetrators you listed above. I do remember that their victims were ordinary people going about their day doing whatever they ordinarily would do.

    2. You make some good points. It is the victims we should remember, and to vow to do better in this country to try and prevent more innocent children and adults from being gunned down in their schools, theatres, shopping malls ,etc.
      These loser killers are looking for power and/or attention that they don’t have otherwise. For them , it is all about them. These are empty dark individuals with no empathy at all. You are right that all this focus on them, on these killers does continue to give them attention, even after their deaths/suicides.

    3. and to add to your excellent report, this makes me ILL, when those sickening reports say” you have talked to the family, HOW ARE THEY HOLDING UP?” the ignorance of them for that frigen $$ HOW do you think they are holding up? clue, there NOT, there in a shock mode!!

    1. You people are trying to use ‘mental illness’, it’s become the catch all phrase. You lack the understanding of where this violence is coming from.

      A failed child rearing motto. That’s producing mass murderers. It’s more to do with a ‘cultural ideal’ then the quick and easy ‘mental illness’ label.

      1. A person that is mentally defective should be treated. In America this is not the case. Mental illness spikes in the early 20s. Look at the ages of all these spree killers. This is not a child rearing issue. This is not bad parenting. This is defective minds running unchecked and untreated.

          1. de·fec·tive
            /diˈfektiv/

            Adjective
            Imperfect or faulty.
            Lacking or deficient: “dystrophin is commonly defective in muscle tissue”.

          2. Every mass murder since Columbine fits a distinct profile.
            They want to tuck it away under a ‘mental illness’ because they come form a University jargon.

            You yourself may think that kid was nut’s, he wasn’t but he was angry. All these kids come form good backgrounds with educated parents who where enablers, and never put the proper restraints on their behaviors growing up. In essence these kids where latch key kids only privileged.

            That University jargon of talk softly, creative this , that and the other and gladly accept when your children tell you to go F— yourself.

            And these learner parents in most cases are not even fit to own a pet much less be having children. We only think they are because they have the incomes and the education.

          3. it’s not the ‘mental illness’, it’s how the Ivy League ‘geniuses’ deal with their ‘defective’ children, they medicate them. They gove them whatever it takes to keep their kids docile. They have no idea of the true side effects (both long term and short term) and only focus on the immediate response. Unfortunately, a few of these kids go bonkers every now and then. God forbid we blame the real problem, as that would cost too much to corporations and government hacks who feed off of them. No, the “real” problem here is guns, and don’t you dare try and look behind the curtain.

          4. No they don’t that’s a myth. Do you even understand what mental illness is ?

            Have you ever even been around it ?

            If you want to see and get a better understanding come visit us at Riverview.

          5. If you really want to see insane take a trip up to Warren. Let me tell ya some them boys are el-nut-so.

            Where talking killed mommy dearest cause he wanted meatloaf instead of chicken.

          6. Ah that explains it you reside at RIverview. How sad for the patients there.

            You are such a story teller and full of it. Now you are presenting yourself as a mental health care professional. It appears you are the one in need of help if this is the dim view you have of mental health.

            Such bluster from a professed “professional”.

          7. Are you trying to say if this young man didn’t have mental issues he would have woke up that morning anyway and shot everyone just because there were guns in the house?
            Maybe he has a copy of Catcher and the Rye in his bedroom too.
            What I’m hearing is a mother likely in denial, who had a houseful of guns, who had a mentally ill adult child, who probably hated the school he was probably treated badly at as kid by other kids, who was on a drug that had the opposite effect of it’s purpose and he was living in the past.
            Obama has got a lot of nerve to say anything when he sends drones to kill little kids in Afghany, lets see what were the estimated figures 12 innocent people die for every attempted hit on an alledged terroist.
            NO way do I want to see a government who has guns and the people do not.

          8. was Catcher and the Rye about that night Varitek got really really drunk?

            Or the Johnny Bench deli sandwich?

          9. it is not the guns, sorry.
            it is the people who have gone crazy and get their hands on the guns.

            it was not that long ago that someone decided to speed his car into a crowd of people celebrating at Fanieul Hall in Boston on New Years…. should be ban cars too?… or was it the driver in THAT case, but the gun in all others?

          10. Unfortunately Jack, they DO have an idea about the side effects. If you get the pamphlet describing ALL the possible “side effects” (available at any pharmacy, but seldom offered) you would be absolutely amazed at the garbage they are feeding children.

          11. You are telling yourself this. Mental illness is a real problem in this country, and your depiction is all too sorry, you do not believe anyone is mentally ill.

          12. Horse hockey!

            I grew up with many “indulged over privileged children who had parents who didn’t care what they did as long as they didn’t bother them. They got new cars (which they smashed into small pieces, had huge parties when their parents were out-of-town, drank like fish, and screwed everything in sight, BUT not a man jack of them ever killed anyone.

            Some liberal did a study years ago and came to the conclusion that these children all lived near military bases…. BUT so did lots of other children who didn’t commit mass murder..

            As I said Horse hockey.

        1. This is scary talk. “Defective” is a term we use for machines, not human beings. Talk of this nature will only lead us down a road we don’t want to travel. Most of these killers were people who one day decided to pick up a gun and kill. This Lanza was known as a genius, a quiet loner, not a criminal. He had no police record. In cases such as this, there is no way to predict violent behavior without authorizing more surveillance and control to Big Brother. With the advent of biogenetechnics, there are scientists studying the ideas of interfacing human brains with microchips. Do we really want to go down this path? Don’t you think the obvious starting point would be to try and minimize the availability of the deadly weapons used in these massacres–semiautomatic handguns and assault rifles? If not, your use of the term “defective” for a human mind could one day come true. And that is a possibility most of us find chilling.

          1. No way to predict violent behavior when his mother had to package up all the knives in the house and keep them with her? … if this is truly the case, please explain that away!

          2. Are you suggesting Lanza’s mother was delinquent in her parental duties? She was shot dead in her sleep, just like the other 26 victims. Nobody saw it coming, and hindsight is always 20/20.

      2. Not a catchall phrase in this instance The kid had problems Societal issues are a different can of worms If he had been playing on an X box and did this I would agree

        1. Who doesn’t have social issues !? I still talk to myself, even answer myself, an on occasion dance naked on my roof.

          1. So you’re an “inmate” !!!! They need to keep better tabs on you. Aren’t they doing the milieu check every 15 minutes on you……………

      3. BUT these shooters have to be mentally ill to carry out such hatred/violence!! you lack the understanding where mental illness is coming from!!! If their brains are wired wrong, no right or wrong way of rearing them will change that. I don”t have the answers, but advocating mental illness as a cope out is dead wrong!!!

        1. Only because it’s fit’s your rationalization and without it you cannot comprehend it.

          In your world they have to have ‘mental illness’, you have been program by the system to think that way.

          And the professionals, even if they even understand it would never admit that their failed motto of child rearing has always been flawed.

          In other words we are producing/creating ‘mental illness’. Never mind the ones born who ain’t wired right. I’ll talking about test tube reproduction or artificial insemination if you prefer. (or cloning if you like)

          1. It’s the way we are raising our children that is producing ‘mental illness’ Yes, it can be induce.

      4. What would you say if it comes out that he has a form of autism called Asperger’s syndrome?

        What would you say if it comes out that he played violent, realistic video games that included mass shootings. etc…?

        There is way more going on with the man than access to weapons.

        1. Exactly! One early report did state that the killer was a fan, for lack of a better word, of violent video games. There is a horrifying aspect of our culture that lets these games that glorify killing, rape and more be thought of as acceptable. Add the music that does the same to what young people are fed on TV, the internet and from Hollywood and that has to have a detrimental effect on some of our youth, especially those with mental health issues. Anyone under the age of 25 has grown up in a much more violent “entertainment” world than any previous generation. Tell me how that cannot desensitize some of them towards the real meaning and results of violent actions and behavior. Does medical science understand why in the last 20 or so years we have had this apparent huge spike in young people suffering from all this new alphabet soup of disorders? It seems to me the root of these violent behaviors lies there. We had the occasional troubled kid and bullies in earlier years, and most often it came down to their home situation as the cause, but this new era of issues is scary and not easily blamed on a dad who smacks the kid at home or a nasty divorce. What is causing all these issues? I’d really like to know. Anything else seems a band-aid to me.

          1. I did not say ban the games, music, etc and I did not call for censorship either. Don’t know where you got that idea from in my post. My point is that these elements must be factors in many of these shootings when teens or 20-somethings are involved. My hope is that good parenting can negate their influence. But that also assumes much in today’s world.

          2. There is a horrifying aspect of our culture that lets these games that
            glorify killing, rape and more be thought of as acceptable.

            The key word was “lets” – implying permission is needed. There is a short leap from tagging something as “culturally unacceptable” to censorship, though perhaps I misinterpreted your intent.

            One thing I could get on board with is better enforcement when it comes to the selling of violent games to minors, which has barely been enforced to my knowledge. Though when it comes to deeming what entertainment adults consume, a hard line needs to be drawn.

            As with the fiasco with Lachowcz here in Maine, there is clearly a lot of misunderstanding of those that play games, mostly by older people that did not grow up with video games. Ones game persona is exclusive to that of their real life persona – at least when it comes to mentally stable individuals.

            Being unable to separate a virtual or fantasy world from the real world, or allowing them to blur, is a flag for mental disorder. Mental disorders, not games is what needs attention.

          1. I totally agree. I know of one case in Massachusetts where a student with Asperger’s Syndrome stabbed a fellow student to death in the schools restroom.

            Not all people with Asperger’s Sundrone commit mass murder. Just like not all people that own firerd commit mass murder.

        1. Don’t get so defensive. All I’m saying is that environment and cultural influence play some role in ‘mental illness’.

          And I strongly believe that how we are raising our children does indeed have some baring on our mental health. Most mental health issues are diagnosis by age 18, some up to age 28. That diagnosis is generally from genetics born with it and waiting to blossom. (there are different age gaps between men and woman)

          However, what triggers it, and what if they where not genetically position to develop it, but it got introduce through other means.

          It’s simply fascinating and I hope the President will era on the side of due diligence and not from a knee jerk reaction that in the end creates another legion of zombies doing the Thorazine shuffle.

          1. I think you have been a patient at Riverview too long.

            Perhaps you’d benefit from the Thorazine shuffle and perhaps some EST as well.

          2. Well, thanks for the intelligent response. Feel free to keep posting under numerous names and thumbing my comments down.

          3. Wow you are paranoid if you think I am more than one person.

            You think one person like I can give you umpteen thumbs down? You’re delusional and you probably should take a time out.

          4. Let’s just say I have friends on the inside. You got more email address’s then the CIA.

            You get banned, and you pop up under another persona. But you always have that certain distinction that gives it away.

      5. It’s not always a quick and easy “blame the parents” for a failed child rearing motto either. Mental illness doesn’t limp. It’s not easily seen by the outward world. It’s not like you need a wheelchair for it and it often acts like a bratty child.

        Add to it a steady diet of violence and stupidity that this society seems to glorify on a regular basis, and it certainly doesn’t encourage someone to be decent. Still, anyone who would systematically slaughter young children is not simply a person who lacked discipline. I would bet money he was a flawed character from the beginning.

        http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.ca/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html?m=1

      6. Oh thanks, man, what a responsibility you have, knowing everything.

        Since you do know it all, care to comment on the link between the shooters and the libor scandal?

    2. exactly, as will be the ridiculous amount of psychotic side effects derived from the hundreds of medications that are prescribed to “treat” these mental illnesses, all to the tune of billions in profits for the well connected, well protected American pharmaceutical industry

      1. The majority of Americans see the latest mass shooting as a sign of major social problems in our society. And also the majority are in favor of many restrictions on gun ownership, though not banning gun ownership:

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/lawmakers-focus-on-possible-assault-weapons-ban/2012/12/17/667504b0-4852-11e2-820e-17eefac2f939_story.html

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

        1. it was not long ago that the exact same thing happened in Scotland… a gunman shot up about 20 kindergarteners… in a country that completely bans gun ownership.
          it is not the laws that matter, it is the people who pull the trigger

          1. Ah, it put’s me in a difficult position to agree, although I do but only to a certain degree. Because that happen once in Scotland, ours are damn near monthly now.

            And it’s coming again, and again and again. Until perhaps you or I mourn over a loved one.

            I just don’t want to get caught up in the hyperbole that saw us releasing thousands of mentally ill to the streets of America because the mental health industry is to damn lazy and protective of their own failings to look at where all this violence is coming from, instead of neatly labeling it under another ‘mental health’ issue.

          2. well, the population of scotland is only 5 million… with NO GUNS ALLOWED, the population of the US is 311 million, so statistically, we might assume that we SHOULD have 62 times more of these incidents than scotland… and we don’t… even though guns are much, much more accessible here

          3. Lots of problems with your assertions here. You presume

            A) Cause and effect
            B) Perfect correlative relationship between variables if not cause and effect (eg. if amount of variable A is present variable B will be increased (positive correlation) or decreased (negative correlation) by a known factor of X).

            Simply put, your logic is not defensible unless you have evidence showing that gun control of the type used in Scotland = the outcome or lack there of, in Scotland. I mean this strictly from a statistical methods perspective. So, statistically speaking you have said nothing. You have simple told us, it would seem, what the populations of these two countries are which is a count or sum.

            Also if your premis is that a law that diminishes violence but doesn’t do away with it all together is a useless law, I would fail to see the logic in that as well.

          4. cause and effect is the ONLY reason legislation should pass.. there is none with gun control

            and I can make correlative arguments to say anything I want… and so can you.

            I have made a career out of ripping apart statistics that have been used to defend this and that (within the pharmaceutical industry… look into the recent 3.5 Billion dollar settlement… that was mine and the statistics used before the FDA were ripped apart by me)

            I am not, in a comment to the BDN, saying anything more than “gun control is not the answer” and I gave an anecdotal account of one reason why not.

            and, getting back to “statistical methods” … they mean nothing, and i know it… and the older you get and the more experienced you get, you will come to see it that way…

          5. There is definitely a place for institutional care and pretending that some magic pill will enable people with mental problems to live “like the rest of us” is just asking for more of the same. Listening to a radio show on NPR this afternoon with mothers talking about having children who threaten to kill them … they should not have to deal with this alone!

          6. I agree, and we need to restore the rights to even the general public to have someone committed. But first we need a place to commit them to.

            There is a waiting list just to get into Riverview, not enough beds. And the ones that are there for the most part need permeate supervision.

            Let me say this, in defense of those who where behind closing the hospitals down, the plan was for outreach, and that is what Ronald Reagan was responsible for in cutting the funding to.

            But I still view it now as very short sighted, because they need to take their med’s as bad as some of the side effects are they do stabilize. And without any monitoring they won’t take them.

            Most of them are homeless and so far gone now you could not help them if you tried.

          7. You miss the point. Essential to progress her is reflection related to all things that contribute to this issue. We must reach for a solution. We must be able to talk openly about all the parts in the puzzle. For one side or the other to suggest any issue is off limits to discuss is simply a juvenile perspective on what is clearly a complicated social issue.

            The allusion to the Scotland story is a misdirected argument. At best, it reinforces that gun control alone is not a panacea to assuring safety from violence.

        2. how many people died on 9/11 from box cutters and commercial airliners? Shall we ban box cutters and airplanes? In 1927 at Bath School in Michigan a man denoted a bomb killing many more then at SAndy Hook. What about the Oklahoma Federal bombing? An entire day care center was erased. Thousands die from tragedies other then gun “violence”. Lets ban everything so we are all safe. (No disprespect intended to those at Sandy Hook.

          1. Was the Bath School in Michigan example on Angry Red State Elephants news feed today or something? Haven’t heard a peep about it in years, but now, suddenly I hear it from 3 posters on the same day.

    3. I would hope not, Ever since Reagan emptied the mental hospitals in this country, we have suffered these tragedies. Now, we must control guns in this country, just like they are controled in other civilized cpountries. We need to go back to the original 2d Ammendment. and not allow private ownership of weapons, especially assault weapons that are developed to kill people. No one in the country needs those weapons.

      1. The Second amendment was written in order for the Citizens to protect themselves from Government excess as much as from plain criminals.
        As to Reagan “closing mental institutions” it was actually Congress and the ACLU under the guise of paitient’s rights see: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Pres_Reagan_Was_he_the_one_who_basically_closed_y_mental_hospitals_throwing_a_good_deal_of_mentally_ill_individuals_into_streets_the_streets_of_the_USA for more information.

    4. gun control is only PART of the issue GUNS have just become the latest means of expressing anger .
      It’s about defunding medicaid… and taking away critical insurance for adults who are unstable (like In MAINE) … it ‘s defunding education — reducing “help” at schools.. It ‘defunding other public services, like POLICE ( needed to ENFORCE the laws— you say we already have enough of )

    5. If someone is going to kill another they will do it with what ever they find. Its the norm for mental health issues to be seen as not as important of an issue as physical health issues. This is a tragic attitude that our nation harbors. As far as gun control I believe that there needs to be control over assault build weapons, and that they should be in the hands of military and police only. An assault rifle is not needed in any type of hunting, or civilian self protection. The standard hunting rifle and the standard hand gun are not the common weapon that are killing our citizens. Although they are being used in killing people, the assault weapons are the true culprits. The assault weapons are the ones that need to be controlled.
      There will be a war waged over gun control, people are getting tired of needless killings, and the the lives of the innocent children in Sandy Hook Elementary School just might be the straw that broke the camels back.

  5. I would give all my rifles to Satan himself if it would bring these poor children back,but of course it’s too late to save these kids. But we can do something to prevent the next mass murder if we are willing to stand up to the gun industry.

      1. outlawing guns will not end murders and outlawing abortion will not end abortions. Education and health care could quite possibly minimize both.

      2. Adopt one or two unwanted infants then come back here in a year or so and tell us how easy it is to raise a newborn in this day and age.

      3. They were not murdered. And I admit I feel sorry for you if you can equate abortion with the cold-blooded slaughter of 20 first graders.

        1. Its all cold blooded slaughter.The only reason the 20 are in the news is because it was done by a gun and not a pair of scissors.Its all murder.I feel sorry for you that you can not see that.

          1. I believe that you see it as that. I do not believe that a medical procedure, performed on a woman bearing a fetus that can not survive outside the womb, which is legal in this country and protected by the Constitution is at all the same as a deranged young man murdering living human children.

            For the record, I don’t want another abortion ever to happen, but I am not prepared to use the law to enforce my personal opinion.

      4. If you want to end abortion then please tell your friends to support Planned parenthood birth control programs.

    1. my friend, you are so wrong, locking doors and preventing the sales of some guns, wont stop the crime!!! there needs to be a ban on assault weapons; I agree, there is NO need for every day people to have in their possession.

      1. Do you understand what an assault weapon is? You must not because throw some plastic on a hunting rifle and you have yourself an assault weapon. Now what?

      2. It’s not about “need,” tho. It’s not for my government to decide which of my Constitutional rights I get to have. I don’t have an assault rifle, and I don’t publish religious pamphlets. I choose not to, because the choice is–and should be–mine.

        I agree with tighter restrictions on certain weapons, but no one *needs* to put put a sheet on his head and march through a black neighborhood or publicly accuse our President of not being an American citizen, either.

    2. We sure can. I know something we can do immediately. Stop reporting on it. Stop making statistics, comparisons, and profiling the killer. Stop showing his face on every news outlet in the country.

      1. I know what you mean. Often time we see so called “copy cats” after major events like this. Just one more reason we need to have meaningful and effective gun regulations so the police will have the tools to disarm felons and crazy people.

        1. What do you even mean by that…meaningful and effective gun regulations? You can regulate all day long, its not going to stop crime. Its not going to prevent anything. A criminal, or in cases like this, someone with a real terrible mental state, does not first concern themselves with the consequences of their actions. So you can make it harder for the millions of legal gun owners to obtain guns, you can restrict what kinds of guns we can own…so what? You will achieve nothing in preventing tragedies like this except making it harder for people to buy guns…which may not be a terrible thing, but it still doesn’t stop crime.

          You want real preventative measures? Its time we had officers in all public schools, elementary through high school. Most of these cowards that do this will quickly stop once the same amount of force is used against them, meaning potentially a single armed person could have prevented something like this. Require students to go through metal detectors. This is absolutely no different than walking into a store where there are detectors in place to prevent stealing of their goods…only you are preventing weapons from entering the schools. There are many comments here where people seem to cringe at the thought of an armed officer and metal detectors…well you want a truly effective preventative measure? Here it is.

          I see in so many comments about the problem we have in Maine for pharmacies being robbed is to place an officer in the store…many people seem to support that because we know two things here, most of these types are cowards, and when met with a threat of an officer with a weapon, they will most likely be deterred from committing the crime. So why not meet that same force in public schools? No, its not going to stop it 100%, but I bet it will deter a lot of these cowards.

  6. Agreed with his remarks completely. These events are some sort of collateral damage we should have to deal with. We can do better.

  7. Have you wondered how the USPS put an end to the going “postal” horror? Do you think they look at employees with emotional and personality problems just a little closer? Of course. If someone thinks a loved one is capable of mayhem or murder, they are probably correct. What one chooses to do is up to them. Look at the story of the father and son shooting in Lamoine. The father and his friend saw it coming. It IS a mental health problem.

    1. Reports out this morning: a neighbor said that a week ago the shooeter’s mother confided that she thought she “was loosing him”.

    2. It has indeed been important for the USPS to address employees’ emotional issues.

      Prohibiting guns in the workplace has also been effective.

      There were multiple instance of shooting deaths inside USPS buildings from about 1983 into the 2000s. Several involved not only the targeted victim (e.g., a supervisor) but also other people who were nearby.

      In 2005, Title 39 was added to the code: “No person on U.S. Postal Service property may carry or store firearms, explosives, or other dangerous or deadly weapons, either openly or concealed, except for official purposes.” [Title 39, Code of Federal Regulations, Section 232.1].

      Since then, there have been 1 instance inside a building and 2 elsewhere (e.g., home and parking lot).

      I suppose that individuals who are heavily invested in corporations that manufacture weapons might argue that it would not only increase corporate (and stockholder) profits but supposedly prevent killings if the USPS had mandated that every worker carry assault weapons as they go about their jobs.

      But creating this regulation (along with addressing mental health issues) appears to be working well… though without the excitement that would ensue if one worker’s gun accidentally fired, half a dozen co-workers sent a hail of bullets into that worker, and a few dozen others, assuming the 1st batch were terrorists, emptied their weapons into them.

      1. I really doubt that anyone that want to kill their coworker gives a rats behind about the corporate policy. They’re are already determined to break the law, but a policy stops them? unless the USPS put physical security into place, treatment/identification are the only things that would drive the effect

  8. Want to end these, get the media to stop advertising the names of suspects. Many, even the mentally ill, have a desire for the attention and the infamy, even if they die. They want to be plastered all over the news, they want people to ask why, while they are the only ones who knew.

    Also, look at our culture, and don’t just do blanket solutions that don’t address the real problem. It’s like taking a brick from one side of the levee to stop a leak on another. Identifying the mentally ill should be focused on, but it’s very hard to identify those who only really get noticed when they do something seriously out of the norm. For many of these spree killers, they were just considered strange (like many people could be) until they killed. Our culture is flooded with messages of greed, violence, sex, and a celebration of fame. Parents try living vicariously through their children, pressuring them to do what the parents want, rather than what the children want. Young adults have been sheltered from the real world and are introduced to a world in which things aren’t exactly how they were promised. College grads were told that student loan amounts wouldn’t matter because they’d get great jobs when they graduated, all to find out that instead many would be just happy to get slightly better than jobs for high school level students.

    And most of all, we have a society that puts all the wrong things ahead of the real things in life to enjoy and treasure. We value money more than life, we advertise sex as a recreational activity rather than an intimate act between two people that truly care for each other, we have people who are paid millions for being famous and yet have done nothing with their lives that actually has improved society. And we glorify violence and ignore the destruction it causes in all the lives that it touches. We need to take a major look at ourselves rather than just look for easy things to blame and be ignorant of society’s part in these awful actions.

    1. … and don’t forget how we glorify violence through violent video games. By the time a child reaches puberty he/she has derived how to kill in a 100 different ways. And if you lack emotional maturity, well then.

      Our society is inundated. With failed social experiments and over glorification’s of this, that and the other. If a young person today reaches 30 without some psychosis he/she will be considered the odd one.

  9. I have a solution, that no one has tried yet, (except Israel)
    Arm the teachers.

    I propose that the principal of the school, being the final authority on safety in the school, should be required to carry a concealed weapon and undergo the same training that law enforcement goes through.
    I think that any teacher that has been trained and holds a concealed carry permit should also be allowed to carry (concealed)

    this madness of creating “gun free zones” doesn’t work.

    don’t chastise my comment, respond with your thoughts. why or why not.

    1. I could easily see a scenario where a larger high school male could overtake a smaller female (or male teacher) when she (or he) wasn’t suspecting it, the gun is taken and you know the rest. In that sense, it makes access to guns easier.

      1. Police officers in an interrogation room, in the middle of a building full of armed COPS, take off their weapons when interrogating a prisoner. And people want teachers roaming the halls with guns?

        Interestingly, the same people who say how badly our education system performs and shouldn’t do more than teach the Three Rs, now wants to get them into the personal protection business?

        1. and your solution is????

          wait for another person with a gun to come in and stop the assailant? by that time it’s usually all over.

          the very first responders to an armed active shooter are the teachers and staff.
          usually by the time the police arrive it’s too late to stop the carnage.
          proven time and again.

          Arm the teachers. let them protect our children.

    2. I think your argument fails because the first person killed had additional guns and yet she was unable to stop the shooter. She was caught off guard just as any and all of the others were.

    3. Sorry, but teachers do not need weapons. And I don’t need a school where my kids’ teachers are armed. Hired trained security personnel, perhaps, but they teachers have enough to worry about already.

      1. Clearly teachers do need weapons. We have seen these instances far too often.

        We already trust our teachers with our childrens safety,

        but they can’t possibly hope to succeed at protecting the children against an armed assailant, unless they’re also armed.

        I am not a teacher, but I can tell you that if I was, I would gladly surrender my life to protect the students. I would prefer to take the shooter out first though, if possible. The best way to do so would be to be armed.

        and you say “hired, trained security personnel”

        do you realize how much training rent-a-cops go through?

        not much.

        Again, require that the principal, and vice principal be trained and armed.

        give the option to teachers that hold a valid cwp and have also undergone training to carry.

        otherwise, do you have a solution?

          1. taken by surprise.
            If there was another person or 2 in that house that were armed, do you think that possibly would have changed the tides?

          2. Can’t answer my question so you change the subject?

            China isn’t having nearly the same problem with knives as we’re having with guns. There have been a fraction of knife deaths that we’ve had of mass shooting deaths AND they have 5 times the population we do.

          3. Thousands of babies have been killed with scissors on one day?!
            Your attempt to bad mouth a rare type of abortion is noted and scoffed at as well.

          4. I didn’t say that and I wasn’t the one to bring up China. However, there aren’t many countries doing much worse than us in terms of these mass shootings.

          5. The 2012 knife attack produced wounds but no fatalities.

            There were several knife attacks in China in 2010. In May, for example, a man with a knife wounded (did NOT kill) 16 students and a teacher. Another man killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 (did NOT kill) other persons with a cleaver. Ten men with knives injured (but did NOT kill) 10 college students. In August, a man with a knife slashed more than 20 young children and staff; 3 students and 1 teacher died. The others were NOT killed. In a separate incident, a man with a box cutter slashed (but did NOT kill) 8 kids in daycare.

            You’re probably thinking about the March 2010 attack in which a man with a knife slashed more than 20 children and staff in Nanping city. Eight were killed–5 were wounded but NOT killed.

            Knives are simply not as efficient as guns.

          6. If we had uniform national handgun and automatic wepons laws like most of the civilized world then it would be muchless likely. With limited gun availability No there isn’t a gaurentee but less likely. Besides, I said if she had no guns.

          7. I don’t walk around my house carrying my weapon on the off-chance someone–even someone in my home–will attack me.

        1. I actually have a very good idea about the cost of a trained security professional, who may or may not had any effect on this event. I do wonder how many children’s lives were saved because this school had trained for this…I’ll bet many, but we won’t know till we learned why he chose these little kids. And we might never know.

          Could arming the staff help? Can you screen them sufficiently so that you’re not actually arming someone, like the shooter himself, who is quirky but not dangerous UNTIL he kills?

    4. No, NO. Arm the kids!! Starting in pre-school. Standard back to school shopping: notebook, pencils, ruler, and Glock! More arms means more safety, right?

          1. they also need to protect.
            they are entrusted with the safety of our children.
            give them the tools to see that it is carried out.

    5. I believe you’ve confused Ms. Meyer, my 60-year-old 3rd grade English teacher with Jason Statham. We pay these people to teach, not to undergo paramilitary training as part of some form of pseudo-SWAT team.

        1. That’s a nicely glib remark. But as far as I can recall, in 3rd grade, my teacher’s only agenda was to teach English.

  10. Gun manufacturers are making money hand over fist. It’s their determination to increase their profits that’s driving the whole pro-gun lobby. They’ve tricked the members of a perfectly nice sportsmen’s organization into fronting for them, demanding that every man, woman, and child in the country stock up on every possible gun.

    The weapons manufacturers’ desire for profits does NOT make the massacre of little kids just some minor collateral damage.

    The time for gun control laws is NOW.

    1. Relax Liz it will blow over in a few days. First we mush address the more serious issue of parents that are raising mass murderous.

      And the perpetuation of mental illness through artificial creation and the failure of those in the mental health field to address the cultural effects that are creating the mental illness.

        1. Good point ! The earth was never design (note the word design) For even 1 billion people, let alone the fast approaching 4 billion.

      1. Another wild claim that “artificial creation” causes “mental illness”. To any extent? Data please, reputable data.

        1. It’s not a wild claim. It’s just never really been looked at, I see patterns, correlations. We simply can’t pass it all off because we don’t understand it.

          And besides, it will create some new meal tickets for the psych industry. It’s a win win, bring on the grant money.

          1. So you made it up. You made it up and then presented it as though it was fact. That’s wrong, dishonest and dangerous.

          2. Never made anything up, it’s real and it’s happening. But some in the industry are reluctant to pursue it. It would throw everything we know about ‘mental illness’ in the air.

            And without the support in certain circles you can easily get laugh off.

          3. You don’t have any proof it’s real and it’s happening. Quit presenting your opinions as though they are facts — that’s called dishonesty.

          4. You want proof, you can’t even understand what I’m saying. It’s right there before your eyes.

            Your young and an idealist, try thinking outside the box.

          5. If you’re going to make a claim, especially such a broad and biologically based claim, then you need to be able to back it up with facts. I can say my hazel eyes are the source of my ability to speak French or whatever nonsense, but that doesn’t automatically make it true. You need to have facts to back up your claims.

          6. If your going to come here with your friends and attack me because what I say doesn’t fit in with your agenda, knock yourself out.

            I have nothing to prove, obviously you do.

          7. Wolfndeer, you might as well give up. You’re arguing with a bot. Either he’s a program automatically generating random phrases in response to your posts, or he doesn’t even have a single link he can point you to. Or, quite possibly, both. :-)

          8. you do realize you are arguing with internet reality.If it is not on the net it is not true.Real life reality escapes them.

          9. researching mental illness and having a grown up conversation about it is not PC.Anyone even mention that this is happening will be labeled a bigot or some other rhetoric name from the left .Time for a real conversation without worrying about elections.

    2. The insurance industry is making money hand over fist, and they hold the lives of millions in their greedy paws. Members of the AMA are making money hand over fist and they also play fast and loose with people’s lives. Politicians are making money hand over fist, and they send our young people out on foolish needless missions around the world, where they are killed maimed, and sent back here sometimes with sever mental illness.

    3. We should make cocaine, meth, and heroine illegal as well…that should control the problem! (note the sarcasm!)

        1. Of course not, but I’m also not going to be naive enough to think that changing a few laws will solve the problems with society. It’s quite obvious that, despite drugs being illegal, they are still an issue. Why? Because the laws don’t solve these problems. Perhaps more added personal responsibility for those breaking the laws would be a good place to start and, once again, less media notoriety for those who choose to commit these horrific acts.

          1. I think personal responsibility is a great idea. I recall a few decades ago when many people (including me) thought nothing of driving home from a party after having a few drinks. Then the laws got tough, MADD got popular and persuasive, and there started to be a real sense of shame to the notion of driving anywhere after having even one drink.

            I think we can turn the tide with weapons, too. Pass strong gun control laws and let those who break them face the consequences, so that advocating for more and more weapons will be greeted with horror, dismay, and public shaming–just like advocating for drinking more and then driving.

          2. I think we might be on the same page here. I agree with the drinking & driving laws. We don’t outlaw cars because people choose to drink and drive, but we make the repercussions for those choosing to drink and drive significant enough so people will think twice. That’s all we can do with gun control. Make more stringent laws regarding their use and who gets to use them and, most importantly by far, make those using them 100% responsible for their actions (and that includes gun owners who don’t insure that their guns don’t get into the wrong hands). All of this still won’t solve the problem, but it will create an impact and perhaps lessen these types of incidences. But attempting to do away with guns and unarm us responsible citizens is, in my opinion, certainly not the answer either. In fact, I can’t help but think how wonderful it would have been for a responsible citizen with a gun in their holster to have been present at this recent shooting. Lots of lives just may have been saved.

      1. Are you planning to demand that nothing be done to protect Americans from gun violence until you obtain the power to force women to bear children against their will?

      2. funny how women can murder babies and it is protecting their body’s.Buy a gun to protect your family’s body and you are labeled a lunatic.

        1. Yes the Federal Assault Weapons ban expired in 2004.

          If people are serious about trying to stop violence we need to throw out the extremes and meet in the middle.

          The right using the NRA will offend and keep the left in “foaming at the mouth” mode and the left using the Brady Campaign will do the same thing to the right and nothing will get accomplished.

          If we are serious we need to meet in the middle with the agreement that we need to do something TOGETHER. Otherwise we are right were we have been on every major issue over the past ten years!!

          1. Well then we will need to define what an “assault weapon” is.

            A traditional “assault weapon” is a selective fire weapon were a shooter can select “full auto”, 3 round bursts or 1 trigger pull 1 shot. These types of “assault weapon” are already banned unless you apply for a federal tax stamp and pay a rather large transfer fee.

            So what is an “assault weapon” then?

          2. I am well aware of what was banned. What I was asking and you have answered is your definition of a “assault weapon”.

          3. And we had waiting periods until the instant background check system came into being. But the weapons used were purchased legally (unless the media got that wrong like they did so much else about this story).

            So if they were purchased legally the system worked. How do you prevent this from happening again b

          4. Not much one can do short of living in a police state. That’s the truth. If someone is determined to kill and cares not for their own life, no laws or regulations are going to prevent it. Freedom and liberty are great parts of living in a free society, though also create an inherit danger.

            Even without “assault” weapons, it would remarkably easy to replicate this tragedy. You, I, or anyone else on this board could legally buy a stockpile of weapons, maybe make a handful of easy to build low tech IED’s (such as popularized in the Iraq war), enter a crowded area and take out a bunch of people. No technical difficulty or specialized training required.

            That said, we shouldn’t give up trying to do our best to ensure that weapons aren’t being sold to the wrong people. One of the suggestions from the same site above that is rather moderate and easy to support (though certainly could not ensure such a tragedy would happen) is making sure that background checks are done at gun shows. I can’t conceive of any legitimate reason one would oppose this, short of naked greed.

    4. Liz, there are gun control laws. Nothing could have been done to prevent this save removing guns entirely from our planet, and even then it seems that this individual was so sick and twisted that he may have used something else instead…and then what? Do we ban anything that could potentially harm anyone? Remember that we also have laws for murder. He seemed to ignore those without any hesitation. Do we need more laws against murder? Would that have prevented this?

  11. We do not need a ban on guns. We need a ban on violent video games. We need a ban on violent movies. We need a ban on the break down of the family unit.

    1. …and a ban on human nature. The human race is the most dangerous species on the planet.

      …and I will be happy to give up my guns, WHEN all the humans are gone.

        1. I actually have no problem tightening regulations on semi-automatic rifles, which probably would not have affected this event. But I don’t support crowding the First Amendment any more than I want to encroach unduly on the Second Amendment.

          I am curious: how does one ban the “breakdown of the family unit?”

          1. Would women in abusive marriages want or deserve that? Prison sentences for adulterers *and* adultresses, of course.

    2. You think that is really going to solve anything? Violence has been in literature for as long as we have made books. Since the beginning of humans there has been violence for something as simple as territory, food, water, to religion, politics, governments…you cannot point fingers at any one thing and say we must ban it because its not going to prevent anything.

    1. The NRA and their supporters have no respect for the National Guard and Army reservist who protect our nation. All greedy gun mongers care about is how much money they can make.

  12. I think a lot of the problem with these shootings is the amount of attention that is given in the media. Some nut job goes on a shooting spree and it’s all over the news for days. Some other nut job sees all the attention it gets and wants to go and send their own message. And if someone wants to talk about gun control laws, how about some mental health evaluations for those that want to own guns. I just saw a report that this wack jobs mother owned the guns, and was waiting for the economy and society to collapse. She knew her kid was unstable and still had multiple firearms and hundreds of rounds of ammo in the house, waiting for the end of society. This information came from the shooters aunt, as well as a family friend. The friend referred to her as a survivalist. I’m all for second amendment rights. I am sick of these RETARD survivalists who are ready for the collapse of society just itching to lock and load and shoot the zombies. If this is your reasoning for owning a firearm then you have no business owning one and you need a mental health evaluation.

    1. How about you find some adult words and not use a term for developmentally disabled individuals and putting it all caps? If you want to call them idiotic, stupid, fine, but using a term that has been given as a label to individuals born with a disability as a descriptor for people who were not is inappropriate. I’m not going to say that survivalists don’t get a little strange, but if it makes any difference, they are effectively trying to insure themselves against catastrophic events, much like health insurance/life insurance does, these chances are low, but they are planning just in case. Most are more likely to try to see and interact with people less and more likely to have any altercations at their home in more of a defensive mode than going elsewhere and going on the offensive.

      1. Maybe I should of said overly paranoid. Sorry to offend you. I had a feeling someone would crawl out of the bunker that would have a problem with my comment. You better get back there and watch as many episodes of count down to apocalypse as you can, the end is near.

        1. Alright, now let’s read with understanding:

          My point was primarily about the use of the term “retard”, having worked with many individuals that were medically diagnosed as being mentally retarded, I’m not sure where you got the idea that I was a survivalist. Many individuals who are diagnosed with mental retardation are some of the nicest people you may ever meet, and while they may not have the intelligence of an average person, they are people who do the best with what they were born with. Using their medical condition as a negative comment about someone who doesn’t have the diagnosis is inappropriate and disrespectful to those with such a diagnosis.

          The part about survivalists was just explaining that they do have some reasoning, just a bit more paranoid about the rare chances than others. The reality is that any survivalist that is known to be one isn’t a very good one because they’d be pointing any potential looters to their stockpiles. I’m also sure that someone could label something you do or spend money on as stupid as well. Maybe you’re ignorant, maybe you are of lower intelligence, probably not, but who knows, but I do know that your comment has indicated that you would find difficulty connecting with people who are different than yourself. So, I’m sorry that you can’t understand survivalists and I can. I may not agree with their logic and reasoning, but I can also respect their decisions as individuals to choose to be prepared for a very low probability.

          1. After serving my country for 9 years I can assure you that I know a great deal about survivalists. However, I don’t find the need to gear up for the end of the world. I haven’t seen any evidence that would indicate that I need to take such action. Yes I find people that feel the need to arm themselves, for the end of society, a bit out of touch with reality. I also know a great deal about diversity and people with different beliefs. You are taking something that I said completely out of context and turning it into something it is not. You can launch all the personal attacks on me you want. It doesn’t change the fact that the shooters mother had firearms and ammo in preparation for the fall of the economy and society. She kept the weapons and ammo in the house knowing the mental state of her son.

          2. And that is the issue, while hindsight sometimes simplifies situations, she had weapons, lots of ammo, and even took her kid to the shooting range, when many indicators of potential worries were there. In that way, she in a way, she supplied everything he would need, and even added pressure to succeed to the mix. I’d say that her errors in parenting and acknowledging her child may require she adjusted her behavior may have led to this tragedy.

            As far as taking something out of context, I was only pointing out that your word choice was disrespectful. You also also characterized me as something I am not, I am not some sort of survivalist who has “crawled out of their bunker”. In that regard, you doubled down on the disrespectful comments (as I found this to be disrespectful to me personally). As you can see by my earlier comment and your response, when people get disrespectful, the other side will become much more defensive and potentially disrespectful. All of this while we will agree with generally what each other may be saying. Just keep in mind how you word things, you can have great things to add to a conversation, but if you word it the wrong way, your comments lose all the value they could have had.

            Anyway, I hope you have a good rest of the day, and thank you for your service, I don’t think the risks that members of the military deal with are acknowledged by the general public enough.

          3. Thank you for the conversation. I will take your advice into consideration for future comments. I admit that sometimes I can be a bit too vocal.

    2. Nope. It came for the corporate media. Please, spin us all a yarn about the survivalists that you personally know and have dealt with? Hahahahaha

      It’s a charade. Connect the dots.

  13. One great step in the right direction would be to stop the media from giving these types of people so much notoriety for their actions!

      1. Let the appropriate persons do their jobs and figure it out. I don’t need to know. The biggest issue is the media giving bragging rights to these folks “this is the biggest massacre” type statements. I strongly believe this is a LARGE part of the problem…the MEDIA attention.

      2. Like I said in an earlier post, don’t allow the release of the name of the killer. When a person isn’t given “credit” for a horrible act, it eliminates those desiring to be famous/infamous. To discuss the issue is fine, and using a generic term like “the killer” would also make people focus on potential indicators rather than a single person and what they look like. If you say, loner, goth, played violent video games, etc, you might have more parents actually see a connection with their own kids and keep a closer eye on their kids and look at fixing any issues before they become a larger one.

        1. My husband and I had this very discussion last night. We don’t need to know that killer’s name at all. Give him NO credit whatsoever. Let the authorities do their job. Focus on the poor innocent lives that were lost. he doesn’t deserve mention! Agreed!

  14. Obama and Hillary will sign an UN Gun Ban on Dec 27,2012. Following several steps, it leads to no guns in USA except for the criminals. England has a 300% increase in crime since giving up privately- owned weapons.Australia is near this level of crime.Read the two very well thought out points of view. Having been a teacher, the free no-gun zone doesn’t work. Michigan just signed into law allowing “concealed weapon permittees” to carry guns in schools,etc.Please read the following. Don’t follow the “dry-eyed” tearful president: http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/2058168-Lt-Col-Dave-Grossman-to-cops-The-enemy-is-denial/

    1. Please stop spreading lies like this. Its an absolute farse that the UN Gun Ban would restrict guns in the United States. In 1957 there was a supreme court case, Reid V Covert, that determined “this Court has regularly and uniformly recognized the supremacy of the Constitution over a treaty”.

      No to mention the fact that they can sign whatever they want, it still would have to go through the senate and get 2/3rds vote before its ratified and binding.

      The UN Weapons Ban is a treaty and our constitution will always supersede a treaty. Stop spreading lies.

    1. No, but we regulate them and we regulate roads and driving laws as well. A speed limit isn’t one step away from criminalizing car ownership, so why do you guys scream that gun regulation is a step away from criminalizing guns?

      1. Unfortunately the car was invented AFTER the constitution was drafted. I believe for that the whole process of licensing and taxing drivers has morphed into a unconstitutional mess.

  15. Fast and Furious.. Obama run gun trade with the Mexican Cartel is fine and dandy though, isn’t it gun haters.

    1. Another tragedy swept under the rug so the great one could get elected.To bad there were not more of these guns in benghazi.Obamas gun control keep them out of Americans hands and give them to the terrorists

    1. And that’s why you’re going to stock up on guns, for all the wrong reasons? Ok, buy ’em up, but please stay at home after that.

  16. Lets be real, what can be done without
    years of debates, lose of rights and never ending political
    posturing. We protect our money, art and national treasures with
    armed guards. Why not our schools. School lock down is a joke,
    schools are the most un defensible buildings ever built

    Our treatment and handing of the
    mentally ill is appalling, we spend more on the care of our pets then
    we do on the mentally ill.

    Wake up people. Get involved ,go to
    your school board meetings,town meetings,volunteer for committees
    .VOTE.

    1. I hate to see people like you using the tragedy to block any discussion of gun control and preventing tragedies like this from happening again.

        1. It is political though. The issue of guns is a political issue.

          You guys can scream up and down that those wanting change are the bad guys, but it doesn’t make it so. Refusing to accept that this is OK, normal and simply the collateral damage for our freedoms doesn’t make a person a bad guy.

          1. This shooting occurred at roughly 10:30 and at noon Ed Schultz is telling everyone that “assault weapons” need to be banned and this is the fault of the NRA. If that is not taking mass murder and making it political I don’t know what is.

            I have never once said any one is a bad guy except for the shooter I have also never said that good common sense laws should not be looked at but this shooter had more issues than access to firearms.

            At least one report has said he played violent video games. Look wolf…I have spent all of my adult life in public safety. I have seen almost all there is to see when it comes to what a human can do to each other. I am asked all the time why I don’t go to horror movies or movies like “The Gangster Squad”. My answer is I have seen it in real life and I don’t need to see it on the big screen.

            But what do video games and shoot ’em up and slasher movies do to young people?

            If we are serious about changing our society we need to look at and review gun laws, violent video games, violent movies, access to mental health care to name just a few. Even Joe Lieberman agrees with this approach.

          2. It’s disingenuous to sit on a high horse and go tsk tsk at everyone for making this political, when the very act of calling for an injunction against gun discussions is political in itself. You’re incredibly dishonest and partisan if you can’t recognize or admit that.

            That was my point.

          3. The problem is wolf the right and the left cannot get by the political advantage game.

            Both sides have to first admit the problem and then come to grips with how do we solve the problem. In the past I have stated I have no issue with banning high capacity magazines. I also have no issue with waiting periods. But knee jerk reactions (banning all firearms, etc…) will only drive the two sides apart and nothing will get done.

            Meaningful laws and regulations come from sitting down together and not shouting at each other across rooms

          4. It’s not knee-jerk, that’s just a lazy way to dismiss what you don’t want to address. People are for gun control (to whatever degree) because of tragedies like this. There is a difference between saying look at this, this is exactly what I was talking about all along! this is what I think gun control would prevent vs. yes, now all of a sudden I care about mental health and adequate government funding to address mental health issue.

            Once again this is an honesty issue, where one side is up front and the other side is making claims aren’t quite reality based. I think you know damn well that majority of those talking about mental health haven’t made a peep about the issue until it became necessary to talk about in order to derail discussions about gun control

          5. Wolf I have a middle ground position and you dismiss it.

            Both sides have to sit down to solve this. The left is just as guilty of playing politics as the right is. If they want to claim the moral high ground why haven’t they pushed forward before now? Why did a Presidential spokesperson say before the election that the President had not intention of introducing the re- authorization of the Assault Weapons Ban? That’s playing politics.

          6. No, that’s a false equivalent. You’re dismiss things when you say one is as guilty as the other.

            Your criticism is stupid. It’s not even compatible with the initial line of reasoning. You want to say the President is pushing an agenda and playing politics, but now you want to say this wasn’t part of his agenda and he’s only pushing it now because of politics. Those two things are at odds with each other. It’s just more evidence that it’s people like YOU playing politics and playing games with this. Any time a big and difficult issue arises there are these blatant attempts to derail the conversation – to make excuses for inaction.

            And I wish you would stop throwing mud just to see what sticks. I made several points and you conveniently ignored them, then you expect me to answer your questions? I’m not going to play that game.

          7. Wolf why can’t a political candidate say what they fell and believe instead of saying what is easy to get them elected?

            Both aides are playing politics. I know that is hard for you to see. I understand that but that doesn’t mean it’s not true.

            You have said “one is is honest” and I am telling you the left has played politics with “gun control” just like the right has.

            I provide you with an example of the Presidents Administration doing just that.

            I can’t help it if you are near sighted when it comes to seeing the big picture. But the President could have said prior to the e election that he supports a gun ban or whatever he believes but he didn’t and now because of last Friday it is politically expedient to jump on the band wagon. Why now? Why not after Ref Gifford’s shooting? Why not after Aurora, Colorado?

            If you inner political compass tells you that gun control is the right thing to do why not just say it?

            I don’t expect you to answer those questions wolf. Not because they are hard or difficult but because they show how the left plays politics just like the right does.

          8. No, you’ve used personal attacks and ignored everything I’ve said, especially what proves your claims wrong.

            You can play this game where you think you’re the grown up in the room when you say both sides are equally as guilty, but that’s laziness. That’s refusing to look at the issues and the behavior critically.

            Don’t criticize me and attack my character for the exact same things you do yourself. You refused to acknowledge the bulk of what I said. Quit projecting your poor behavior onto me.

          9. Wolf if you consider the comment that you are near sighted an “attack” on your character I am sorry.

            It was meant as a example of only seeing what you want to see rather than the big picture.

            I see both sides of the political spectrum as playing politics with this and many other issues.

            President Obama to me is just another politician suing to the masses. He said one thing before the election even in the face of Gabby Gifford’s mass shooting and the Aurora Colorado shooting. Nothing happened after that.

            Why can’t a politician stand up and say what they believe rather than what they think will get them elected or re-elected?

          10. Okay, but if you make a claim that Obama is just playing politics, and I challenge that with facts and logic, then you reply again maintaining Obama is just playing politics and ignoring what I said — then no, you aren’t seeing both sides. You aren’t even having a discussion, you’re just mindlessly repeating yourself.

            You can’t simultaneously argue that Obama is using the tragedy to push his political agenda, but then also argue that he hasn’t had this agenda and now all of a sudden he does though. It doesn’t make sense.

            It’s pure stupidity to say that they’re using deaths for political gain to advance their gun control agenda, when the very reason they have a gun control agenda is to specifically avoid deaths like this in the first place.

            I’m not going to speak with you if you’re going to behave like a robot.

          11. OK wolf who is being insulting now?

            I was going to respond to your post wolf but after I apologize to you for a remark that you took the wrong way you insult me.

            That is the textbook definition of hypocrisy sir.

            Have a wonderful rest of the day b

          12. You’re dishonest. I made the same point earlier almost verbatim and you ignored it, and now you’re pretending you’re ignoring it because I insulted you in the same way you insulted me? Like I said, that’s dishonesty.

            And further, I didn’t call you stupid, I insulted the notion that it’s somehow fair to have two criticisms that aren’t even combatible with each other.

          13. wolf your words – “I’m not going to speak with you if you’re going to behave like a robot.”

            I find that insulting.

            The hypocrisy you are displaying is astounding.

          14. The dishonesty you’re displaying is astounding. You haven’t been responding to anything I’ve said this entire conversation, you’ve just gone out on your own tangents and now you’re going to pretend you’re not responding to my points because I insulted you? Now you’re insulting me! I’m not that stupid. I know what you’re doing. You can’t manufacture a reason as to why you were ignoring everything I said after the fact. You only respond directly to what I say when it’s convenient for you — again that’s not a discussion and you’re incredibly dishonest. I made the same exact points before I supposedly insulted you and you still ignored it. Dishonesty. Plain and simple.

          15. wolf when you are man enough to apologia for the “robot” insult I will be more then happy to continue our discourse.

          16. I’m sorry you took offense to the robot comment, but you can’t deny that you were ignoring the majority of what I’ve said so far. That’s fact. Anyone can see it in going through the text. I made points and you ignored it. How else should I describe that?

          17. You do see it *more* than looks like a politician trying to advance his agenda, which he otherwise couldn’t, with the help of dead children?

          18. I think that’s a disgusting thing you’re implying.

            You think people are for gun control simply because they don’t like guns? Or that guns or ugly or something? You think people are for gun control for reasons other than preventing these kinds of tragedies?

            I would say all or at least the vast majority of those for gun control hold their opinions because of the violence that occurs with the aid of guns.

  17. The right-wing talking point is now about mental illness — suddenly they care about that, anything to avoid a discussion about guns. Well anybody who thinks they are going to fight government tyranny (i.e. the US Army, Marines, Air force, Navy) with their store bought weapons, is certifiably nuts and should not be let anywhere near a gun. We need to look at the 2nd Amendment again.

    1. PC will not fix the problem. Time for the left wing to grow up and have a real grown up conversation about mental illness.My guns will protect my family from the ones amongst us that are in denial over the divide from the last 4 years .When the riots start those not prepared are the reason we will need these guns.When the naysayers become desperate i want to be able to protect my family.Just heard a great quote! can not wait for this admin to lecture gun owners after they shipped these same guns to mexico.

      1. The mother of this young man had the survivalist mentality. I highly doubt she was a liberal. She probably filled the kid with angst about the economy collapsing.

        Your guns aren’t going to protect you from the end of the world as you people tend to worry about.
        Mental illness is ignored by conservatives.

    2. And do what? What is so difficult for anti-gun knee jerk reactionary people to understand this one incredibly simple concept–criminals do not care about the law, they will commit their crime regardless of if the law says its okay to do that or not. So go ahead and ban the cosmetic features of assault weapons on regular rifles, go as far as banning handguns, even guns overall. Its not going to stop crime, it just will not stop it from happening. Look at the 2nd amendment all you want, rip up the constitution if you think that will do anything…when you come back to reality you might finally realize that all the preventative measures, laws, and enforcement you try to put in place will still ALWAYS be overcome by a criminal, because they do not care about the law.

  18. I’ve read these comments, I must say that a good many of

    you are part of the problem in this country. Mental health problems are real, and they are devastating to families of the effected.

    My own wonderful, loving husband suffers with Bi-polar syndrome, when I say suffer, mean suffer, the pain and agony he goes though is heart breaking. This illness has also caused my family, to separate themselves from us, because they don’t understand why he just won’t stop being “so foolish”. They also don’t understand why I “put up with it”. Let me tell you if he could stop it he would, and my marriage vows said for better or worse, right now we are having some of the worse.

    Mental illness tend to run in families, so it most likely is genetic, both my husband’s children are Bi-polar, so was his mother and older brother. His brother had one of the highest IQs in the world, at the time he was alive, he killed himself at the age of 21, my husband said, his brother could of very well have been one of these shooters, but he took his own life instead. This took place in 1962, and not much has changed with health care for mental illness. Until we stop denying mental illness is real, these thing will keep on happening. Until we stop denying we have a gun problem in this country, these things will keep on happening. Until we start caring about what happens to each other these things will keep on happening. Until we stop thinking that we can’t make a difference these things will keep on happening. We can make a difference but we have to start with 1 step and try.

    1. I hear ya. Back in the day as they say, before Bi-polor got relabeld it was called Manic Depression.

      ‘pull straight and miss, I know what I want just don’t know how to go about gett’n it’

      -Jimi Hendricks

      What’s the point, you may not what to hear it. We’ve got legions of hype on the S.S.I.

      1. My husband’s not on SSI, if you read my post you’d realize he’s in his 60’s and has work for most of his life.

        1. He’s lucky he’s had a good woman behind him. (and an understanding one) Many a woman would have run, especially if they weren’t getting a check.

          I had my greedy wife arrested and jailed. And warn my children I’d cut out of my vast fortunes.

  19. What is the cause?

    Realistic and violent blood – splattering video games? Mental disorders? Readily accessible killer automatic firearms? No parental controls? Prolonged exposure to excessive violence, as glorified in Hollywood slasher and slaughter movies and Television copies? Bullying? Abusive parents? Undetected illness? Loner? Physical deformities? Explosive uncontrollable temper? Music that enhances and encourages violence? Schizophrenia?

    …Society?

  20. Which tragedies? The ssri pills pedaled by big pharma? Vaccines?

    Oh, he’s referring to the drone strikes he’s authorized that have killed hundreds, yes hundreds, of innocent women AND CHIDLREN! sorry mr. President, your words ring hollow when you have the blood of hundreds of innocent little kids on your hands!

      1. Wow. Delusional much? Laughable….

        “However, the use of armed drones to target and kill suspected terrorists has increased dramatically during the Obama administration, according to Peter Bergen, CNN’s national security analyst and a director at the New America Foundation, a Washington-based think tank that monitors drone strikes.
        Obama has already authorized 283 strikes in Pakistan, six times more than the number during President George W. Bush’s eight years in office, Bergen wrote earlier this month. As a result, the number of estimated deaths from the Obama administration’s drone strikes is more than four times what it was during the Bush administration — somewhere between 1,494 and 2,618.”

        http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/25/world/asia/pakistan-us-drone-strikes/index.html

        Wake up…..pathetic

      2. Seriously, where do you get your info? I’m sorry for all Americans that have been duped by Barry soetoro. Just as I as with the W crowd. It ain’t rocket science—- you merely have to be able to distinguish fact from rhetoric. Obamas rhetoric? Sounds amazing doesn’t it? But the reality is too often the exact opposite! Just look at the facts: gitmo? Transparency ? Whistleblowers? He promised the most transparent admin ever. Guess what? It’s the least. Whistleblowers? YouTube what he said about that. Then look at what he’s done. Mr constitutional lawyer and Ndaa? Please explain that one? Love to hear it. As I restoring habues corpus? Nope, sorry….anwar alwaki, however guilty he may have been, was murdered in a foreign country via drone. He was a us citizen. Please, explain to me how a president can target murder people with no due process? While your at it justify the murder of alwakis sixteen year old son, also a citizen.

        You obama nuts are far worse then W’s minions ever could have dreamed! Where is the anti war stance? You freaks applaud the murder of foreign women and chidlren and count it as collateral damage!
        How do you all sleep at night?

      3. I mean seriously, where do you get your info? It’s not even close. As I pointed out earlier!

        Don’t let reality get in the way if your obsession with a lying hypocritical banker shill.

      1. The fact that our president, who apparently is affected by this tragedy, has authorized drone strikes that have killed hundreds of innocent women and children. Hundreds.. They call it collateral damage when it’s “over there”. That’s what I’m on about…problem with that?

        1. I agree that the children are innocent, as are the large number of women who are in a 5th century marriage and must do what their men say. But I have no problem with our country attacking the safe havens of people who attack our troops, whether with drones or manned aircraft. And like with Hamas, the men who hide behind and among their women and children are hardly the “men” Islam expects.

          1. Hmm. So you condone killing innocent women and chidlren. Good for you.

            You seem to have a problem with logic. I’m quite certain these hundreds of chidlren aren’t attacking our troops. Nor are the women. And no one is hiding behind anyone. You see, a drone isn’t seen or heard by these people. A supposed “terrorist” is targeted, at a wedding for example, so we decide its agood time to drop a bomb. At a wedding. Killing that one terorist? Perhaps yes? But also killing everyone else…..get it? These human beings are considered collateral damage. No one is hiding behind anyone.

            And spare me the AIPAC talking points. I can no longer stomach that vile hypocritical garbage. Let me guess, you want to ban assault rifles in America ? but you are content that my tax dollars go to arming every Israeli with a machine gun?

          2. I am hardly condoning it. I would prefer we weren’t still in Afghanistan at all, and I can assure you that the person who hates collateral damage almost as much as the victims is the one who executes the weapon. But this is a war…a part of which our supposed ally Pakistan could put a stop to today if it so chose.
            Is it an AIPAC talking point? I pay them little mind. And I have a lot of issues with Israel, the things they do in the name of their “national preservation,” and the ways our country excuses/enables them. I don’t want to ban assault rifles, tho.

          3. Drone attacks that we know of have occurred in Somalia, Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan.

            War? What? War is when there is an opponent!!!! Terrorism? Sorry, you cant delcare “war” on a verb. and, as far as i know, there is no congressional approval for a current war? By the way, we are supporting al quaeda in Syria! And we created al quaeda. So…..

            Sorry, don’t buy the military industrial complexes lies. We aren’t threatened by terrorists. And if we truly were, dropping bombs via drones isn’t the way to retaliate. It’s all about money. Period.

          4. I have a decent knowledge of how drones are used and where. And one doesn’t have to be an Israel booster to understand Hamas’ policies and tactics. But I will say you lose me when you say it’s all about money.

          5. Right, it’s not about setting up mcdanolds in Iraq or using marines to guard poppy fields. Or the military industrial complex profiting. It’s about spreading liberty and freedom…obviously

          6. Uhm,, no you dont know how drones are used. youve demonstrated that. And Israel’s “tactics”? That’s what I thought. Awfully one sided for someone who sees both sides?

          7. Well, you don’t really know what I know or don’t know about drones and their employment. And I have plenty of ire for both sides in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, esp when my tax dollars are concerned. As anyone who sees my posts will tell you, I am not an Israel booster or apologist. But nor do I look sadly upon the “poor Palestinians” as if they receive no aid from us and are attacked by Israel while sitting quietly reading their Kurans and Bibles.

          8. Lets see. Obama is giving 3.1 billion to israel in 2013 in the form of foreign military financing.
            And how much do the Palestinians get? I don’t know? Can’t seem to find any? At all? Man, what color is the sky in your world?

            No country in the world gets the assistance we give israel. None.

            Palestine gets “humanitarian and economic” funding. But it pales in comparison. And, they get no, repeat no, military aid from us. You do know we are helping israel to build their shield? And, last time I knew, congress wasn’t inundated by a Palestinian organization?

          9. Of course we give the Palestinians zero in military aid. They have called for the destruction of a close ally, and, judging from the weaponry they get “smuggled” in, they don’t need our help. I am happy to know that we are helping Israel build its shield; I despise that we give them money which allows them to expand their settlements.

          10. It is all about the money. We have absolutely ZERO moral authority to kill people in this part of the world. The only reason for this whole shebang is because the middle east has oil. Is there was nothing but sand we wouldn’t be there even if the sand was soaked in the blood of innocents. If you need proof, why did we miss Rwanda, Cambodia, Myanmar. no oil, no problems.

          11. Safe havens? Really? Do you have any idea what obamas drone policy is doing? You do not.

            Go cheerlead so where else. Your transparency is telling and sad….condoning the deaths of innocent children, shame on you, shame on you………

          12. Seems to me we justified our incursion into Afghanistan by saying we were there to “get” Osama Bin Laden. The government says he’s been got, so why are we still there? Our troops would be far safer at home….with their families.

          13. Eight countries and counting—– eight. Obama has murdered children in eight countries. Where are the tears for them? Huh?

            And what’s with the pathetic attempt to deflect from such a pressing issue? I’m talking about facts. This has nothing to do with Muslim laws and traditions, or Anyang else. And your vain and equally pathetic attempt to bring in Hamas is shameful. And these kids don’t attack our troops. Do you get it? It’s very simple.

            You either condone that or you don’t. Being a human being, I do not.

  21. we are arming terrorists around the world. brutal regimes using american weapons to subjugate the population.yes,these tragedies must end

  22. Asperger’s syndrome is an overused label usually by a psychologist not a psychiatrist in the school system. Its a catch all phrase when they can’t qualify a child for a different label in order to obtain the services the child needs. Chances are this shooter had a severe increasing mental health illness that was not identified( as there are certain diagnosis a person can only receive after attaining the age of 18.) so there could have been continued intervention and prevention of this tradgedy. The homeschooling system is weak and lax.
    The weapons should have been under lock and key. Removing all weapons out of society will not work as prohibition failed. I personally don’t understand why one would need a semi automatic unless they are law enforcement. I guess …… a hobby.

    1. exactly WHAT labels are reserved as diagnosis for person after attaining the age of 18? I have worked with emotionally disurbed children for many decades, and I have seen all the known labels applied to children.

      1. This is not an absolute but the diagnosis I am referring to is schizophrenia. My sources are DSM IV, NIMH and ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.A Rare form of schizophrenia can begin after age 5 but is difficult to tell apart from autism. Schizophrenia affects 1.1 percent of the population usually beginning in the teen years to early adulthood but can develop later in life. Therefore, the educational, homeschooling and mental health system needs to be re-vamped.Again just my opinion ….it appears the shooter fell through the cracks and perhaps mom was in denial and avoiding the issue. This situation is going to make it very difficult for the people who have asperger’s syndrome and who truly have this disorder.(most of whom are non-violent)

  23. Obama is biting his lip in the picture to look sad, Yet he is very happy!!! He likes fear and tragic events to push his agenda. He could not have planned it better himself.. To Obama it is an opening to banning guns in America..

    1. You are nuts like so many around here. You people that think this is the end of the world need some serious mental health evaluations yourselves.

      To interpret the President as being happy about this is disgusting and perverse.

      1. He does make it hard to defend gun rights, but I too was once young and naive.

        In the end it will the old timers once again who have to defend the rights of America with good ‘ole common sense.

      2. Never waste a tragedy Is what the liberal/progressives say, Right?? They live for these moments..
        They get their power from evil events or bad times., Sick bunch

        1. I’m not living for this moment but you sure are. Look at your posts, they are dripping with fear.
          I’m not a survivalist nor do I think the end is nigh. I also happen to believe in the right to own a gun.
          I haven’t gained a thing from this horrific tragedy. To think someone has is “sick”.

        2. Like Bush-Cheney grabbing un-Constitutional powers via the Patriot Act in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. There was no Department of Homeland Security until that Republican administration exploited a tragedy to create it.

  24. I have a question and an up vote means its OK with you.
    If Obama declared that he was going to be the Ruler of the United States and there will never be anymore election, would you agree with his decision?

  25. There are a lot of theories and ideas.

    But what was the ultimate driving force – the reason – that had twisted this kid’s mind into killing his mother, and then, devoid of conscience, rampantly slaughter twenty-six people.

    What happened before he grabbed the gun?

    1. Good question ! Having read about some of her background, somethings just don’t fit with her being a school teacher. I think she pass on some traits to this kid.

      1. Would his mother’s continued complaining about being let go by the school, have anything to do with it?

        There has to be a connection between the school and his mother? Maybe that’s what inflamed him. Playing those no mercy action games, could have shown him how. The guns were readily available. Maybe his mother tried to stop him? .

    1. Relax, they ain’t taking your guns. Not today, tomorrow or yesterday.
      On the other hand you may have to pass a psych test to posses one.

  26. we need a multiple approach and I suspect we will have that. Gun control will just be PART of the solution .The bottom line goes to peoples heart and soul. We need to be a KINDER gentler nation.We need to USE problem solving skills and conflict resolution.

    And it needs to start with our elected official setting a better example and LEADING the way. We need to stop the violent disrespectful words, as well as the violent actions.

    It needs to continue with “entertainment” —masquerading as news —- personalities ( yup RUSH ( the magic negro) . BECK ( annie get your gun) COULTER, HANNITY, RIVERA etc ) using words to ginn people up and divide us instead of finding common ground.

    It continues with the words and actions of people like Karl ROVE, DICK ARMY Grover Norquist , Newt Gingrich trying to make a living out of their non profit “organizations. and with “has been , but never elected to higher office’ ” politician like santorum and palin and huckabee with their lucraticve FOX contracts paid to GINN people up.

    1. Wow what party do you support again??. You belong to the thought police party, read your comment.. I am pretty sure the liberals are the most courpt people in the country, prtending to love as they cut off the health care benifits of the elderly. LOL! your opinion. you are a hater and a bigot

    2. Yes especially obama on the news saying we have yo end these tragedy’s.Wonder if he has stopped shipping these guns to mexico for the drug runners.

  27. Here’s an interesting item.
    The AP is reporting that the Westboro Baptist Church….that band of crazies who picket U S Military service personnel’s funerals…have announced that they plan to picket the funerals of the children & adults killed in Sandy Hook.

    1. That’s truly pathetic ! Gives God a bad name. (and I sure as hell hope they ain’t next to me in line when time comes just in case of the collateral damage)

      Much to President Obama’s credit he did outlaw picking military funerals.

  28. The tragic deaths of twenty children and six adults in Newtown, Connecticut this past week and the similar tragedies in Aurora, Columbine, Virginia Tech and Tucson are a reflection of the twisted society we’ve created. The progressive control freak do-gooders that believe the government can solve all problems and improve our lives with another law or regulation, have as usual come to the wrong solution for the wrong problem. Stricter gun control laws would not have averted this this tragedy. Connecticut has the 5th toughest gun restrictions in the country according to the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. The guns were purchased legally by the mother of the killer. Mentally deranged people should not have access to guns, knives, automobiles, gasoline, or baseball bats. The real issue is not what he used to kill these innocent people, it’s what caused him to snap. Those in power want to divert the attention from this crucial question. In Huxley’s novel the characters do everything they can to avoid confronting the truth about their own lives. They try to alter reality by ingesting Soma, encouraged by the state as the ultimate form of willful self-delusion. Soma clouds the realities of the present and replaces them with happy hallucinations, and is thus a tool for promoting social stability. America has taken Huxley’s dystopian vision to an extreme. There are millions of children in this country being drugged on a daily basis to keep them under control. A majority of the mass murderers were taking psychotropic drugs, including the mentally deranged killer this week. These killings are a result of the state sponsored drugging of children, a culture that promotes narcissism, broken families and our technologically enhanced suburban sprawl isolation from human relationships, love and compassion for others.

    We glorify technology even though it encourages the building of brick walls, creating a self-imposed isolation from society. The traditional family unit has been discarded, with 50% of marriages ending in divorce and 43% of all children born out of wedlock. Millions of families are dysfunctional, with parents too busy with their careers and acquiring material possessions, to bother with raising their children in a loving nurturing way. One in ten American adults choose to escape their man made cells with prescription anti-depressants. Almost one in four women in their 40s and 50s are popping pills to escape their depressing lives. Huxley envisioned a Soma Nation. America is a Prozac Nation. The wealthy think medicating their kids, spoiling them with toys, gadgets and cars, and occupying their days with organized sports and activities passes for involved parenting. Poor urban children are lucky if they ever lay eyes on their father. Ignorance, violence, and dependency are a given for most of these kids. And all of these children are matriculated into the government run schools whose sole purpose is to teach kids what to think, rather than how to think. Our owners need to keep us “happy” and focused on feelings, material possessions, and an infinite number of distractions, so they can retain control and continue their pillaging of the national wealth.

    Our leaders have attempted to design their own Brave New World, retaining control by making America’s citizens so contented and superficially fulfilled that they no longer care about their personal freedoms, liberties and civic responsibilities. The consequences of increasing state power are a loss of dignity, morals, values, and emotions. We are losing our humanity……

    Continued at :
    http://www.blacklistednews.com/Guest_Post%3A_HEY_YOU/23128/0/0/0/Y/M.html

      1. Let me guess: an Obama yuppie who sees nothing wrong with drone strikes in foreign countries that kill innocent women and children? Thought so…

        Back to your pasture with the rest of the sheep

  29. ‎20 school aged children dead in the United States = National tragedy. 20
    school aged children dead in Afghanistan = National security.

  30. Bloomberg has suggested that the president circumvent Congress to enact gun control measures. Isn’t anyone concerned about a political figure suggesting publicly that it is ok for the president to circumvent Congress. So if the plurality of citizens object to laws, amendments or other legislation we just circumvent Congress, the voice of the people?
    100 people die everyday of prescription drug abuse. Shall we ban prescription drugs?

  31. The problems in Society are deeper than a need for more mental health services or legislation related to gun control/restriction. Society is sick. We are a people without morales, values, religion or value on human life. We lack respect for our neighbors. We do not value differences in opinion. We have lost our youth. We fail to educate them. We live in a gray society. we’ve been programmed to accept that there is no black and white. We look for answers outside of us. Evil people do evil things because somehow Society failed them, i.e. they were abused, traumatized, have a mental illness so on and so forth. Individual responsibility for our actions has been lost. To love America, sports, the flag and religion is wrong. We are a society who has become skilled at fighting among ourselves on who and what to blame. We are lost. We lack leadership. All the legislation, law, and treatment will not fix us. We can only be fixed by looking inside us.

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