PORTLAND, Maine — More than 100 people braved the arrival of Portland’s first winter snow storm Sunday night to gather in solidarity with grieving families in Newtown, Conn., and in support of stiffer gun control laws.
The organization Maine Citizens Against Handgun Violence held a vigil in Monument Square on Sunday, one day after similar gatherings took place in Rockland and multiple other locations across the country.
Friday morning’s horrific mass shooting in Newtown — where 20-year-old Adam Lanza killed 20 6- and 7-year-old children, seven adults and himself — has reinvigorated debate nationwide about gun control.
In Portland, Mayor Michael Brennan was among many Sunday to express frustration with what he described as political stagnation on the issue of stronger restrictions on gun ownership. Brennan noted that high profile mass shootings over the last two years in Arizona, Colorado, Wisconsin and Oregon, among others, were not enough to motivate policy makers to act in advance of Friday’s Connecticut tragedy.
The mayor lamented that Congress allowed an assault weapons ban to expire in 2004 without renewal, and said laws passed by the Maine Legislature in recent years to allow individuals to bring concealed weapons onto the grounds of their workplaces and state parks were “a step backward.”
“Let’s not be here a year from now after another tragedy without having done anything,” Brennan said, adding, “People do not need an assault rifle to hunt or protect themselves.”
Maine Citizens Against Handgun Violence board chairman Tom Franklin said Portland has a lot in common with Newtown, including a relatively low crime rate, and that Maine’s largest city is “vulnerable.”
Franklin called for state legislation requiring background checks for individuals buying firearms through gun shows or classifieds magazines, like the popular Uncle Henry’s. He said Mainers must summon up their well-known independent streak and push gun control laws forward against the wishes of powerful gun advocacy groups, such as the National Rifle Association.
“Maine just might be the first state to stand up to the NRA, to say that protecting our children will not be subordinate to fetishism or the pretenses of self defense,” Franklin said. “Maine can show the nation that grief can be turned into action. … We can change frustration into progress and leadership.”
Emmanuel Caulk, superintendent of the Portland Public Schools, urged parents to hug their children, reassure them and answer their questions in the aftermath of the Connecticut shootings.
Caulk, who became emotional when he spoke, said the attack “violated us all.”
“This act has really shaken the core and fabric of our schools,” he said, adding, “It is unimaginable to think as we went about our normal routines Friday morning, this tragedy struck our neighbors in Newtown, Conn.”
Others speaking Sunday in Portland included William Harwood, chairman of the national Brady Center to End Gun Violence, and Rev. Jill Saxby, executive director of the Maine Council of Churches. Portland city councilor and Maine Citizens Against Handgun Violence board member Ed Suslovic read the names and ages of the people killed at the Connecticut school.
The crowd of about 100 at the vigil, in which people shielded candles from the wind and snow with gloved hands, included city councilor David Marshall, as well as state Reps. Mark Dion and Ben Chipman, among many others.
While the NRA has been silent since the shooting, issuing no public comment and reportedly canceling a Friday promotion with country music star Colt Ford, other gun rights advocates across the nation have bristled at the notion that the mass murder could have been avoided with tougher gun laws.
Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, said that had teachers and administrators at the Connecticut school been armed, they could have defended themselves against the intruder Friday. Pratt was among many firearm advocates in the country to say the tragedy should motivate policy makers to ensure guns are more readily available to law abiding citizens, so that they can better ward off criminals like Lanza.
“In addition to the gunman, blood is on the hands of members of Congress and the Connecticut legislators who voted to ban guns from all schools in Connecticut — and most other states,” Pratt wrote in a statement posted on the organization website, in part. “They are the ones who made it illegal to defend oneself with a gun in a school when that is the only effective way of resisting a gunman.”
“One failed attempt with a shoe bomb and we take our shoes off at the airport.
Thirty-one school shootings since Columbine and no change in our regulation of guns”
stop medicating the kids with the profiteering drugs of corporatist big pharma and you may end up with less unstable maniacs packing guns they’ve acquired, in spite of existing gun laws
….. that’s part of it
….YOU’RE part of it
Until we loose the silly notion of “self defense” and this stubborn American
individualism, things will not get any better. Until these gun freedom types are
disarmed and truly fear the criminals, we will never fund our law enforcement
agencies at the level needed to protect us. Neither will we provide them with
reasonable rules of search, seizure and detention to do their jobs well. Without
these necessary tools for a civil society, and more enhanced methods of gaining
information from suspects and other undesirables, I fear that we will never be a
free society as part of a sustainable world.
If all those first graders were packing, there’d have been no slaughter.
What???
I agree we need more gun control. Ban assault rifles
We need more drug control….ban crack! Oh wait, how’s that working?
let’s just get rid of all the laws……brilliant
Forks cause people to get fat.Lets ban them also.
Being obese is not illegal and affects no one else..try again.
Except automatics and assault rifles can kill more people at one time
not funny………….
all we need is to enforce what laws we have and make the sentences a heck of alot stiffer..
apparently not … the tragedies keep happening ..
Death seems pretty finite, yet it’s having little effect.
We need to stop drunk driving too! Let’s ban cars! This is sheer stupidity. Criminals will have guns not matter what the law says. I DO feel bad for the residents of Newton CT. But gun control will not change anything.
So what will?
That’s an entirely unrelated discussion – that must occur.
You think that will happen before the next massacre?
Not as long as anti-progress folks like yourself continue to stuff your head in the sand and mindlessly drone on about how it is the existence of guns that cause these problems and some how some new regulation will solve all of our woes…..you’re supposed effort to address the problem is a completely misdirected endeavor
It’s obvious thinking causes you extreme issues.
“Thinking causes extreme issues”
does writting cause you extreme consternation in thought? It certainly would appear as such because your comment above literally says nothing and has no context
lol “Extreme” is the key word if I must spell it out for you?
You could move to a country where there are no guns, oh wait the US will sell them some… oh wait again, there is no such place except places where the government only has guns, get back to us about how that works out…oh gee wait once again, you won’t be allowed to say how that works out.
it’s very interesting it was the GUN nuts first to these post on FRIDAY defending their right to own..THEY opened the discussion. with their entrenched thinking. Go back and check it out— who posted here first and what they had to say.. The problem is VIOLENCE in AMERICA–PART of the solution .is a relook at our gun laws and other lefty liberal things that you all hate like anti bullying programs—-“using words’ instead of reaching for a gun to resolve problems , whether in the home or on the streets.or in our malls, theaters , and schools and workplaces .
If you aren’t part of the solution; you are part of the problem.
NO that is exactly the discussion .and it includes placing limits on assault and multi clips. as a first step. banning gun shows and privet sales with out a back ground step will be step 2. And it will include anti bullying programs and funding safe and sound school so people will use their brains to solve problems and engage in conflict resolution BEFORE reaching for a gun.!!!
As these liberal posters’ sit around puffing on joints let’s consider a ban on marijuana . Citizens have a right to defend themselves , if they choose not to, shootings like this will continue.
….as righty fight for their life to hold on to their guns by throwing out any irrational disjointed thought they can thriow on the wall. too bad they aren’ t fighting for these KIDS rights.
But we do regulate and register cars and drivers’ licenses, we demand drivers pass a test and we have many, many laws concerning driving and cars. Why are guns different?
Guns are different because the corporations that manufacture them have a HUGE financial stake in keeping profits up by advocating against any sort of regulations on them. They just need to 1) make people paranoid and 2) feed them the line that owning lots of weapons will protect them.
Car manufacturers don’t have a similar financial motive.
Not to mention that the gun manufacturers saw the writing on the wall with tobacco in the 90’s and wrote legislation protecting them from misuse lawsuits.We need to make membership in the NRA equal to membership in the KKK or Westboro Baptist Church- a small group of ignorant old men and nobody else.
Making 4.3 million armed enemies would not be healthy.
That leaves 300M civilized non NRA members.No problem.
Considering post are unarmed hippy environmentalist, I don’t give you much of a chance after the first rounds go off.
Car manufacturers don’t have their financial lives at stake? Well, the President did bail them out. But they do in fact try to sell you a new vehicle with the pretense that it will make you sexier, or more rugged, or smarter, depending on which model they are selling. They come out with a new version every year in the attempt to make you think your older one is no longer any good or somehow in adequate. Do you not think that Detroit would not fire up the lobby machine if the feds decreed that all vehicles made must, for example, be able to go no faster than 67mph, or get a minimum of 45mpg, or guaranty all occupants will survive a 35mpg cash into an immoveable object? You bet your bippy they would, and they did so in the 70’s during the fuel crisis. They are a poor choice to compare to as their products kill more people in this country than the gun makers do. A speeding 20 year old crashes his car and kills himself and two friends. Shock and dismay locally for a few days. Same kid shoots his two friends and himself and it’s a national tragedy that needs government intervention right now! What a farce. Yes, in this latest tragedy many many more young lives where lost, but how many people of all ages died on the US roads that day, and did the day before and the day after. But the car lobby says we need them for our lifestyles so we must accept the deaths that come with their use, It’s terrible but it must be so, otherwise we all must walk to work and the mall. Our society turns a blind eye when it benefits us.
And has all this stopped drunk drivers, who kill thousands of people each year?
Why must you always come up with a diversion? Why not address the problem at hand?
There is no diversion…the issue is personal choice and responsibility no matter the choice of tool.
a car didn’t kill these kids , neither did a knife , neither did their parents, or the schools or society,. or , mariijauna or any other ridiculous thing you want to blame, .instead
No they didn’t. A crazy person did, and he could have done it in so many ways that you can not ban. Let’s ban crazy people.
If it stops the next mentally ill killer from harming one individual, it is worth the fight….lives should always be more precious than money, possessions, or guns.
A mentally ill killer will always find a way to kill. How about we just kill them first.
Yes! Let’s make drugs illegal, too! Oh wait…
Well, as I said before – you pro gun rights folks better start thinking of real solutions to this problem. Because of Sandy Hook, the two very ambitious and liberal Senators from CT along with neighboring Mayor Bloomberg of NYC are not going to quit on this issue now. The tide is turning and another incident – because you KNOW there will be another incident, will move proposed legislation along. Instead of sticking your collective heads in the sand, you really need to get moving and ask the NRA what they are going to do.
and it appears even flaming right winger are finally on board ..for a ban on assault rifles…
What do you think the Supreme Court will do?
The Supreme Court already ruled in favor of an individual’s right to keep and bear arms: District of Colombia v. Heller, June 26, 2008
windham weapons employee??
banning assault rifles and multi round clips will make it alot harder to do mass murder. IF he had had to reload ,maybe some more kids could have escaped and survived..
No, “banning” cars will not stop drunk driving, but creating a society in which the car is not the be-all and end-all of transportation will REDUCE the incidence of drunk driving as more people walk, bike and use public transportation. Similarly, taking political action to reduce (not “ban”) the numbers of the types of weapons used in these mass killings will change, at least, the conversation, and eventually individual behavior. I agree that laws aren’t the only solution, but they have a place in the mix.
These are sick people using this tragedy to further their agenda.
No, you have it backwards. They want to keep more children from being killed in a bloodbath , in a school or anywhere. I think it is the NRA people with an agenda.
Putting us in a situation where the only people who have guns are the cops (always only minutes away) and murderous criminals, will only result in more children getting killed in bloodbaths.
nice to see what’s on YOUR agenda, you sick pup
Just because someone thinks differently than you you resort to name calling. Says alot about you and your views.
Well, your disagreement basically says your view that we should be disarmed and then slaughtered by criminals with guns
such a compassionate viewpoint you have….pretty much what got these kids and teachers killed, thanks for that
No one is stopping you from remaining unarmed and walking around blissfully thinking the police will be able to protect you from druggies and other nuts.
So If only everybody around was armed with AK-47s, an ordinary civilian could take out a mass killer before he got too far.
If that were true, then how come it never happens? The truth is that in a chaotic situation, even highly trained police officers often kill bystanders. The idea that some accountant who spent a few hours at the range would suddenly turn into Jason Bourne and take out the killer without doing more harm than good has no basis in reality.
A principal and his gun
“Vice Principal Joel Myrick held his Colt .45 point blank to the high school boy’s head. Last week, he told me what it was like. ‘I said ‘Why are you shooting my kids?’ …
The shooter was Luke Woodham. On that day in 1997, Woodham slit his mother’s throat then grabbed a .30-.30 lever action deer rifle. He packed the pockets of his trench coat with ammo and headed off to Pearl High School, in Pearl, Miss…
The moment Myrick hears shots, he ran to his truck. He unlocked the door, removed his gun from its case, removed a round of bullets from another case, loaded the gun and went looking for the killer. ‘I’ve always kept a gun in the truck just in case something like this ever happened,’ said Myrick, who has since become Principal of Corinth High School, Corinth, Miss.
Woodham knew cops would arrive before too long, so he was all business, no play…He shot until he heard sirens, and then ran to his car. His plan, authorities subsequently learned, was to drive to nearby Pearl Junior High School and shoot more kids before police could show up.
But Myrick foiled that plan. He saw the killer fleeing the campus and positioned himself to point a gun at the windshield. Woodham, seeing the gun pointed at his head, crashed the car. Myrick approached the killer and confronted him. ‘Here was this monster killing kids in my school, and the minute I put a gun to his head he was a kid again,’ Myrick said.”
http://www.davekopel.com/2a/othwr/principal&gun.htm
“Gunman killed after opening fire at church
A gunman attacked worshippers at a Colorado Springs, Colorado megachurch Sunday afternoon, killing one person and wounding four others before being killed by a security staff member, the city’s police chief said…
Chief Richard Myers called the Colorado Springs church security staffer, ‘a courageous security staff member who probably saved many lives.”
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/09/church.shooting/
The accountant is probably as well trained as the perp is. And if armed he at least has a chance to taking out the killer. Unarmed he is nothing but a sheep ready for slaughter.
It happened in the Portland Mall shooting just the other day. The citizen had a concealed weapons permit.
NO ONE is saying ban all guns …
Name the ones you would allow us to keep?
The NRA agenda is to help weapons manufactures make record profits, with the slaughter of children considered a small consideration, easily swept away by saying that teachers (and eventually Kindergarteners) should purchase lots of weapons, too.
It is sick people who created this agenda and tried to NORMALIZE the use( and sale) of assault rifle and tried to nromalize carrying them around, all wild west style..
Calling someone with whom you disagree “sick,” and calling their opinion an “agenda,” are tired rhetorical tricks. I support gun control. What is my “agenda?” Hoping that it results in fewer gun deaths. Even if i’m wrong, it’s not more complex than that. It is NOT, for example, to see to it that people are left unarmed in their homes so that the New World Order can take over with its black helicopters. Peolple who believe THAT will happen if we engage in some reasonable gun control are… well… sick.
The average person in Chicago is unable to defend themselves from a criminal. That is your agenda and you should not have the right to take away my right to defend myself and my family from anything.
Let’s ban cars, violent video games and movies, TV sitcoms like 2 1/2 men, ban guns, 30 round magazines, bullet proof vest, sharp knives… the list goes on. How ignorant can people be o think banning guns will fix this? Society is so desensitized to violence, the value of life and the way we live has been dwindling for decades. The media, Hollywood the internet all as much to blame for horrific events like this. sad as it may be, nothing will be done because this selfish country cant go without said items.
Define exactly what it is you’re trying to fix?
How about “violence in America”?
you are stating that you are willing to give up your items ? and that you are not selfish like the rest are ?
There’s no other problem for which we’d say if we can’t solve it completely and forever we shouldn’t even try…..
You’re right, so let’s encourage teachers, administrators, and other responsible citizens to receive firearms training and make it a regular practice to carry concealed. Nothing will magically remove all
guns from the bad guys, and the police can’t be everywhere at once, so we need to be prepared to defend ourselves and those who are defenseless such as young schoolchildren.
well I second banning 30 round clips!! Bingo you are a winner
.”Society is so desensitized to violence,” yup and that seems to be exactly the goal of all these “gun nuts talk ” for the last 2 years….. to NORMALIZE violence , to desensitize us to violent talk and to desensitize us to things like open carry — like sheep to the slaughter … congrats goal achieved …with these 6 and 7 ,year olds, hiding a classroom year!!
Peace through superior firepower does work, which is why the US is where it is today. The same thing works on the streets and at home. most criminals are not suicidal, they choose easy targets. Ask Austrailia how their home invasion rates are after their firearms control.
The things that make something an “Assault Rifle” are then most trivial pieces of technology on the gun. A telescoping stock? Please. A pistol grip is just a stick stuck on the bottom (same with a foregrip). The magazine is just a metal box with a spring. Turning a 5 round into a 25 is nothing.
It is not always a gun.The Bath School disaster is the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, on May 18, 1927, which killed 38 elementary school
children, two teachers, and four other adults; at least 58 people were
injured. The perpetrator first killed his wife, and committed suicide with his last explosion. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7–14 years of age[1]) attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest mass murder in a school in United States history.
This is really wheree the issue lies. All the statistics in the US and none really address the desensitization of human feelings regarding the value of anothers life. While most of us handle video games and movies fine, clearly some do not. Top selling games reward the player for killing or hurting innocent people. These are the same games parents buy to occupy their kids while they go about their own life, yet they can’t imagine their child would harm a flea?
Rabid gunlovers call ANY proposed gun law a “firearms ban.”
It’s really sleazy.
Why do they do it?
Because the truth of the proposal won’t interfere with the rights of any legitimate citizen. And because it’s been working for them.
Swimming pools are the real killers. They eat children like it’s their job.
Nobody’s been killed by being hot over the head with a Super Mario cartridge or a DVD.It’s always the gun-always.
The people who will follow such laws are the law abiding citizens. Gun laws do not stop criminals from obtaining these weapons and then using them. As for the deranged people that are out there, there is little that can be done. If they have no records of criminal of psychological issues, how can we prevent such issues. It would be like banning cars due to the major accident that happened in Texas a while ago. If we disarm the population, we are prime targets for those who will not follow the laws.
Agreed and well stated…..
Problem is this guy wasn’t a criminal.
problem is, YOU’RE a criminal for suggesting we disarm ourselves, effectively arming the criminals to our own detriment
BTW, do you also sell guns? I’m getting the hypocrite red flag all over the place with your posts
I’ve never once said anything about disarming ourselves you just happen to be a turd with a single track mind who reads into things stuff that ain’t there
You’re all over this page (and numerous others) yammering on about gun control this, gun control that….meanwhile you’re probably some corporate hack who either profits off of guns or the presription drugs that wind up knocking these people firmly off their rocker to the point they would use a bomb, gun, knife, or any other object that unfortunately came into their hands to commit these heinous acts they have conjured in their heavily medicated, disturbed minds.
I’m truly thrilled I could get your very small mind all wiped into a frenzy of mental mush, it speaks volumes for you ability to think in anything other than liner terms.
thrilled as much as your mentally challenged opinion that disarming the populace will somehow prevent violence by criminals or the mentally unstable?
the volume spoken is your child-like lack of writting ability and your myopic view of a complex situation
Well, instead of saying there is nothing one can do about this, gun owners and promoters really should start coming up with some solutions, because there is a movement now. If Sandy Hook doesn’t get people working on gun control laws, the next one will. And there will be another incident…. And I don’t mean, kill all the crazy people. You really need to start coming up with tangible legislative solutions.
Here’s an option, shut down schools, Every student in Maine has to have a computer, start teaching via internet, kids can stay safely at home, save tax payers millions.
Their will be incidents regardless of gun control. Criminals and people like this will get them regardless.
You’re absolutely right, there will be another incident, because the media continues to glorify this subhumans actions. Harris & Klebold are household names due to media aggrandizement. The media, by whipping this into a constant frenzy, is directly feeding into the consciousness of the next whack job who knows he will have undying fame due to our media coverage. They aren’t worried, ratings are way up!
Subsidize gun safes like we do gun locks.
Compared to other developed countries the U.S. has a hugely disproportionate number of gun-related deaths. There were 12,632 (40.5%) homicide deaths in 2007. Gun-related homicide rates in the United States are twenty to thirty times higher than they are in countries that are economically and politically similar to it. Why do Canada & Europe have so many fewer homicides than the U.S? Criminologists invariably say it is the availability of guns to anyone who wants them. The mother who was just killed by her son in Connecticutt had many weapons in her house & trained her son to use them. The obvious truths have a hard time penetrating fixed ideologies. Most homicides are not caused by strangers but by neighbours & friends so the proliferation of guns only magnifies the problem. Paranoia & fear do not go away by providing more guns in households or public places.
Crapola.
so YOUR goal here is to get others in a frenzy?? that seemed to be this murderer goal too.You might want to rethink your motivatiion PS this murder WAS a criminal the minute he aimed his gun at his mother ( and then fired)
He has every right to have a view that is different from yours.
Indeed he was as was his mother. He stole those firearms from her who had them improperly stored and secured.
I am sure that statistics show more innocent victims are killed by guns than law abiding citizens killing in self defense.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
So, according to these statistics you posted:
Since 1960 our population has nearly doubled and yet the murder rate in 1960 is 5.08% and the murder rate now is 4.6%. Guns are not the issue here. There are more guns now than there were in 1960 and firearms were more readily available then (Mail order, it’s a fact) without the benefit of any type of background check at all.
The majority of incidents involving the use of guns for self defense do not result in any discharge of a weapon. Just the presence of an armed individual ready to defend themselves results in the perp backing down and leaving. The majority of these cases also do not result in any police report being filed.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html
I agree with you to a certain degree, but I still think reinstating the assault weapons ban – – AND outlawing the sale of large clips to limit the number of shots that can be taken without reloading — are both worth considering. Maybe it wouldn’t stop all shooting sprees, but it might make them more difficult, and doesn’t take away the right to own a gun. Of course, the real issue is how we deal with individuals with mental illness, that’s a tougher conversation to have.
THis kid reloaded 3 times based on the police reports thus far. Reloading is something that can be done with realtive ease when you’re not defending yourself. He had time to reload any type of weapon he chose and the fact is killed himslef before the first officers were even on scene. Until we can find a way to prevent these individuals from getting to this point or being free to act out their thoughts they will find a way.
How long do you think it takes to swap a magazine (not a clip)?
It’s not about “disarming the population.” It’s about reducing, over time, the supply of firearms of a certain class. Specifically, guns which are–in truth and fact, and despite hand-waving denials–especially suited for making it possible for someone to rapidly massacre large numbers of people with ease, in a way that other firearms simply cannot come close to. Law-abiding citizens will still have access to many other types of guns that are more than suitable for self-defense under the vast majority of realistic circumstances.
And yes, reducing the supply can work. Part of the reason it’s so easy for someone with criminal intent to illegally obtain a gun, is that our society is absolutely awash in them.
No we can’t prevent every madman from obtaining a gun, and we can’t prevent every massacre. But that’s an unrealistic goalpost. We can, however, REDUCE and make LESS LIKELY.
We should de-emphasize cars AND guns in our daily lives. No one needs a military assault weapon to defend self and loved ones; no one needs a Hummer to drive to the store for a quart of milk. A ban on military assault weapons WOULD make it harder for a dranged youth to get his hands on one (or several), and while it would not eliminate tragedies, it WOULD lower the body count and save lives, just as higher gas prices resulted in fewer road fatalities.
How does the legal ownership of a specific type of weapon have any bearing on the mindset of the one who possesses it? I’ve owned numerous firearms of all types for decades without ever thinking of committing an illegal act, which by the way is aligned with millions of other American gun owners. Lastly, of my firearms those that would not be remotely considered “assualt weapons” by the uninformed masses such as yourself, are far more powerful and accurate at greater range.
For the sake of discussion,let’s say we ban “assault type weapons”, which are nothing more than a semi-automatic hunting rifle with a different look. So now with a stroke of a liberal pen, they are now gone.
Now let’s look at the deranged killer looking for his news cycle of fame. He just runs down to L.L. Bean and buys a Remington Model 1100 semi-automatic 12 gauge shotgun with the shortest barrel available and an open choke such as improved cylinder. He then buys a box of 12 gauge 0 buckshot which is a single shell with nine roughly 9mm projectiles inside. He then removes the plug from the magazine to accommodate five rounds of said buckshot. With a Bushmaster, for one pull of the trigger, you send a single projectile down range. With the shotgun, with a single pull of the trigger, you send nine rounds downrange in a very wide pattern. Thus, with this legal weapon, the killer now can send forty five deadly projectiles down range with five pulls of the trigger an no reloading. With the Bushmaster, that much firepower down range would require forty five individual trigger pulls and at least one magazine change.
What have you solved in this scenario? Nothing.
The bottom line is that when a deranged person wants to commit a mass killing, they will commit a mass killing. Ever read about these people called suicide bombers? How would you like to force the deranged killers into the use of that weapon, the suicide vest. Picture one of those being activated in an elementary school.The body count will be far greater.
Our politicians and liberal pacifists who desire that not a single firearm be privately owned in this country and that we all sit around and sing Cum By Ya need to stop their politicization of human tragedy under the veil of “what’s good for America” and “preventing more tragedy”. We all see each of them for what they are. Self serving opportunists who have the gall to use human suffering to advance their agenda.
They are despicable human beings.
The true answer to stopping these atrocities is dealing with the perpetrator, not their chosen tool.
With all due respect, the combination of:
(1) light weight, and compactness;
(2) semiautomatic action;
(3) low recoil;
(4) ability to accept large capacity magazines;
taken as a whole, is more than just ‘different look.’
To address another point: A shotgun cannot compare in terms of multi-victim deadliness: Those pellets at first remain in a tight pattern, then rapidly lose energy as they widely spread out. They may wound multiple victims, but are far less likely to kill. And each one of those pellets, alone, has nowhere near the destructive capability of a single .223 bullet. Also, a shotgun has heavy recoil and cannot be fired as rapidly, and also cannot accept as many rounds, due to the sheer size of the shells.
With respect to things like suicide bomb vests, the expertise and infrastructure to create them isn’t widespread in this country, and therefore their use is not widespread. In countries where their use is common, there is a cohesive, underground, para-government infrastructure devoted to making them. The explosive material, or the ingredients to make them, itself generally is provided in one way or another by sympathetic governments, or at least wealthy backers.
Once again, it’s not about preventing every possible scenario; it’s doing things that are within our practical power to reduce things that are likely to happen. Legal restrictions on certain firearms have worked, and can work, in that regard.
With all due respect, you do not seem to know much about shotguns. The effective kill range of a 12 gauge with 0 buckshot is extremely deadly at 35 to 50 yards and still deadly at 80 yards. I’ve never seen a classroom 50 yards long. With an 18 inch barrel.the available five rounds in a confined space, such as a classroom or office, would kill every person sitting therein.
As for suicide vests, any tenth grade science student could create an explosive device that would destroy all life inside a closed space, IE, classroom or office.
Legal restrictions on firearms have been proven time and again to only restrict their possession or use by law abiding citizens. Tell me how the strictest firearms sanctions in this country are working in New York City, Washington D.C., Chicago,Ill. and Los Angeles, Ca.
The regulated strictest cities have the highest firearms related violent crime rates.
Hyperbole does not a good argument make. I dont know mnay that are calling for an outright ban on firearms. And eventhose that do propose such things arent being realistic as it simply wont happen even with these repeated shootings taking place. Your description of a readily available shotgun reveals some special knowledge and is interesting, but doesn’t really make the case for banning high capacity clips and semi-auto or automatic weapons. There is a legit use for such a shot gun, not so much for high capacity clips and assault weapons in the general society.
Funding for better mental health services, something the right has been arguing against in their hyperventilating about a largely fictional debt and deficit crisis and their assault on social services, would go some way toward identifying the looneys that have been behind some of these massacres. NOTHING will prevent mass murders, but common sense can limit them and perhaps make them less lethal.
When does stating facts become “hyperbole”? Did I speak against banning high capacity “magazines” (clips are items to hold open potato chip bags closed)? The shotgun I describe is a semi-automatic weapon. For your information, automatic weapons have been banned in this country for decades. Semi-automatics cover a good seventy percent of all legitimate hunting weapons in this country.
You have never and will never hear me speak against funding for mental health services, so lose that stereotype right away. Did my post not say “deal with the perpetrator”?
The point of my shotgun comparison was simply to show that the typical knee-jerk “ban assault weapons” rant is useless. The weaponry I described is far deadlier in a confined space than a Bushmaster. Why do you think it was the weapon of choice by the Boonie Rats in the tunnels in Vietnam?
Trying to regulate the tools used by deranged people is a useless effort and waste of time. We must deal with the societal, psychological, and physiological factors that drive these young minds into such dark places.
“…liberal pacifists who desire that not a single firearm be owned…” is hyperbole. As is the rest of that paragraph. Not a “fact” to be found there.
Ignoring facts does not magically turn them into hyperbole and negate them, try as you might.
There isn’t a single fact worth arguing in the paragraph I cite in your comment. There are a very small minority of pacifists that might like to see NO guns… But they aren’t worth commenting on. I am liberal, and for the most part a pacifist, but I also own a gun. I would use it under the right circumstances too. I think we probably find agreement when it comes to better mental health services to identify the looneys among us, but that will take better funding for those services.
Well stated. We shall politely agree to disagree on the point. That’s what keeps the big blue marble spinning.
“Largely fictional debt and deficit crisis”
You doubt we are in Trillions of dollars of red ink and still feel that you could be considered sensible on any other subject?
Wow!
Yeah, wow. Let’s have a sensible conversation about the facts. You game?
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2012/12/paul-krugman-that-terrible-trillion.html
You want to start with an article that claims it is ok to spend twice what we earn? How about looking around and finding all of the economist that disagree? Or maybe think about your economic hard times and how spending twice what you earn during a bad economy may not be a good idea. I’ve had pay cuts since this depression started and that did not lead me to try to spend my way out of the bad times.
If you knew much about economics you perhaps know that your personal finances don’t work the same way as large govt finance. Just sayin’. And thanks, but I’m comfortable with my sources. Lots of freshwater economists cling to magical thinking. I’ll stick with the reality based economists.
I know enough about economics to know that you can not continue to spend twice what you take in for any long period of time and survive as an entity. It doesn’t matter if you are an individual, a company, or a country that can print it’s own money. Any other opinion is just political spin by leftist economist trying to protect the golden goose of entitlements that they have already killed. Picking and choosing the few economist who agree with you and disregarding common sense doesn’t help your case.
Little quiz for you… What is a freshwater economist?
I don’t believe your quiz does much to answer my above point but I thought you ought to know that quizzing someone who knows how to use the internet is a little silly. All I would do is look it up on Wiki and give it back to you. Why don’t you stick to the topic?
An honest discussion about govt spending since the current admin came into power would be about how the recession initiated automatic transfer payments to SS and Medicare that were legislated years ago. They have nothing to do with the admin in power at the time they get activate… They are the result of economic conditions. A large portion of current spending is accounted for by those automatic payments. Almost half of the deficit right now is due to spending on bush’s wars and bush’s tax cuts. Total govt spending under the Obama admin is actually significantly below trend… Except for these automatic transfer payments and the current deficit is largely due to tax cuts and war spending.
I stand by my original statement that the illogic of spending cuts to services that help identify mass murderers before they go on their rampages is lost on folks who don’t know enough about economics to know the debt and deficit “crisis” is largely BS. It is opportunism on the part of the party of the wealthy, the GOP, to get the cuts to services they have been trying to get since SS was first enacted over 70 years ago.
Freshwater economist by the way are those that follow the teachings that came out of the Chicago school of economics, the failed notion of trickle down that has helped impoverish millions of middle class workers while making the wealthy classes extremely wealthy.
Difficult to have an honest discussion when your view is so warped by politics. I see fraud, waste and abuse every day in the system you are defending. We have taken the greatest nation in the world and turned it into a nation of welfare state dependents. Continuing the process of destroying this country is your call if that is the one you wish to make but at some point your children or your grandchildren will pay the price for the freebies you give away or take for yourself today. Maybe once you have finished trashing the place the new owners will have more sense for awhile.
You are doing what you accuse me of… Politicizing the conversation… A nation of dependents…? A study in Maine showed that the typical TANF recipient is a single mom with kids who gets benefits for 18 months. Changes in welfare programs in the 90’s forc most people that aren’t disabled or mentally challenged into work. I guess you’d rather they live in a shelter and have your property taxes pay for them, or cheaper still, let them live out in the woods by the highway… If you don’t resort to actual facts when talking about this you will having nothing but the BS talking points of dolts and partisans to back up what you say… I live in the reality based community. Empirical data helps sort out the anecdotes from what is really taking place. It ain’t me that is effing up this country, and if you think that, all I can do is cite the facts. You are free to think what you like… Have a good one.
go away
Why don’t you.
Because firearms are the only way to kill someone. I remember when Washington, DC was the murder capitol of the United States. During that same time Washington, DC had the strictest gun laws on the books.
Stricter gun laws do not work, never have and they never will.
Most of my views are very liberal and as former NRA member I’m going to wear my NRA hat this week as a counter protest.
If the status quo of guns stays static, look for an event like this coming soon to a town near you.
Way to spread false fear just like the media does.
Ok let’s just kick back and let the shooting continue, just like we’re doing.
You think taking away firearms from law abiding people such as myself are going to stop mass shootings? If you do, you are 100% wrong.
Where have I ever said anything about taking firearms away?
Your comments have reflected that for the past two days.
Never once. I love target shooting.
So you are 100% not for stricter gun laws then?
I think what we have in place is working out very well, I think assault weapons seem to be an issue.
And how do you define an assault weapon?
You think the kinds of guns that Adam Lanza had are necessary for hunting or protecting yourself?!
Debating with you is pointless.
How about approaching the debate minus the 2nd amendment issues and try finding a way to keep weapons out of the hands of folks who shouldn’t have them?
You do realize that those that truly want to cause harm will always find a way to do it, correct? Timothy McVeigh didn’t use a firearm nor did the 9/11 terrorist. Theodore Kaczynski didn’t either.
It’s all a matter of degrees, civilians don’t fly around in f18s armed with sidewinders. C4 can’t be purchased at True Value, yet folks do get hold of what that they shouldn’t have. But not at the rate we see these horrible crimes occur with weapons in the hands of nuts. How many Kaczyniski’s or McVeigh’s do we read about weekly?
So you want every one else to solve this problem. What are your answers?
First define the issue?
You tell me, Swampdonkey! What will stop drunk driving? What will stop child abuse? What will stop speeding? This can go on forever. In all honesty if people would take responsability for their own actions and responsability for their children’s actions. Bring God back into education, I think it would slow down alot of our problems. But that is just my 2 cents.
God would not like all these people being killed in mass killings. He would want people to stand together and do more to protect innocents. It is time to do something and stop saying there is nothing one can do. That is not good enough.
it’s not good enough to cop out and say guns are the problem when it’s obvious they are not….this man was sick, he was most likely under the influence of numerous medications (regardless of what corporate controlled media will tell you), and his actions fit the profile of numerous mass muder profiles in the past where a mentally ill person was supposedly ‘treated’ through medication, only to go off the deep end in an obscenely tragic manner
I say it’s time to start looking at the ‘treatment’ and the ‘medications’, each of which are provided in a profit driven business environment
I don’t happen to be a big proponent of medications either, or the pharma industry.
Who cares….go slap the swamp donk and have a good time banning guns
Until physicians are made accountable for all the meds they distribute, death and destruction by medication will continue.
Which is why God is against abortion and other mortal sins.
God has nothing to do with it. I’m sure that school, like most public schools, has pretty much ridden itself of God. It would seem rather foolish for the same people who have no use for Him to invoke His name for help.
Guns are not the problem, nor have they ever been. Murder and crime and war have always been, long before there was gun powder. It’s always amazing that these type of stories are so heavily pushed by the mass media, while they never mention the many lives that guns save on a regular basis.
Obviously, ‘doing something’ to you means imposing stricter gun laws. You do realize that someone who is willing to kill another human being is not going to obey any law?
So why do children each day say “under God” in the pledge if God has been ridden from schools? Why do schools allow Christian clubs where students gather to pray and discuss the bible?
Students are allowed to pray in school, if they desire too. Nobody has taken that right away from them. This entire God has been taken out of schools is 100% pure BS.
Certainly, Kevin, they do say ‘under God’ in the pledge, and some schools allow Christian clubs. But most also won’t allow prayer at public events, teach atheistic evolution as a fact, and won’t allow any divergent viewpoint in the classroom. At best, then, the phrase in the Pledge is, for most, meaningless. I know this because I have a friend who teaches in the relatively conservative Lincoln school district. The teachers even have to be careful teaching about the reason for Christmas, or they will be reprimanded for proselytizing. I would submit that if you teach people that they are nothing more than a higher evolved animal from the time they are little until they are all grown up, then they will act like animals. More intelligent, yes. More sophisticated, yes. But animals, nevertheless. I think what we’ve seen in the last few days is only the beginning. My opinion (which I know means nothing here) is that things like this massacre are going to become more proliferate as the moral fabric of our nation declines, which, as you know, has nothing to do with guns.
Further, and this correlates with what’s been going on, teachers, in Maine at least, are not allowed to touch a child, even if the child attacks them with a knife, or any weapon, unless they have specialized training. They can only restrain the child if the child is a danger to another child or himself/herself, and then they must use all diligence not to harm the child with the weapon. It would seem to me that once a kid picks up a weapon, to either use on another kid, or the teacher, violently, that whatever force is necessary to stop it would be okay, but that’s not the case. This whole attitude puts the teacher on the defensive from the start, and makes them very reluctant to do what is necessary for their own or others protection. Was this the attitude of those teachers in Conn.? I don’t know.
You seem intelligent, and different than most avowed liberals (maybe I’m wrong about most liberals on this subject, but I doubt it) in regard to guns, in that you understand that violence and crime have nothing to do with guns, that even without guns violence and crime will continue, and will only get worse, as they will be perpetrated against unarmed citizens. This tells me that you understand basic human nature, and that a gun does not make a person evil, but that it comes from within.
I don’t need religious morals to know right from wrong.
What do statistics show for numbers of those who shoot in self defense, and those who are innocent victims of shootings ? That is what the public wants to see in order to determine their validity.
God is every where .. he was in the hearts of the teachers who saved their kids, Friday.
“Dear God,
Why do you allow so much violence in our schools?” signed, a concerned child.
“Dear conerned Child,
I am not allowed in schools,”
Signed, God
So why did your God allow the below shootings to take place?
Why did your God allow little boys to be raped in Church?
Each school day children say “under God” during the pledge. Many schools have Christian clubs where they gather to pray and discuss the bible. Many kids meet by the flag pole to pray on school property. Your God has not been taken out of school, at all.
August 5, 2012. Six Sikh temple members were killed when 40-year-old US Army veteran Wade Michael Page opened fire in a gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Four others were injured, and Page killed himself.
April 2, 2012. A former student, 43-year-old One L. Goh killed 7 people at Oikos University, a Korean Christian college in Oakland, CA. The shooting was the sixth-deadliest school massacre in the US and the deadliest attack on a school since the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre.
October 2, 2006. An Amish schoolhouse in Lancaster, PA was gunned down by 32-year-old Charles Carl Roberts, Roberts separated the boys from the girls, binding and shooting the girls. 5 young girls died, while 6 were injured. Roberts committed suicide afterward.
March 12, 2005. A Living Church of God meeting was gunned down by 44-year-old church member Terry Michael Ratzmann at a Sheraton hotel in Brookfield, WI. Ratzmann was thought to have had religious motivations, and killed himself after executing the pastor, the pastor’s 16-year-old son, and 7 others. Four were wounded.
September 15, 1999. Larry Gene Ashbrook opened fire on a Christian rock concert and teen prayer rally at Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, TX. He killed 7 people and wounded 7 others, almost all teenagers. Ashbrook committed suicide.
Kevin, I can assume you are very young, or have not been raised in a Christian home and taught to respect your creator. This world has always been the battleground of good and evil. There is a creator of all evil whose job is to steal, kill, and destroy. Christians know the end of the story, which you can read in Revelation. Until that day of judgment, free will was given to all, including priests.
I’m 42 years of age and I was raised in a Christian home. I went to church every Sunday and I was baptized at the age of 11 and when I was 20 I became a born again Christian. I then grew up, read the bible and realized it was all 100% BS.
There are thousands of God’s you do not believe in which makes you an atheist as well. If you want to debate religion, bring it. I know more about the bible than most so called Christians.
You made my point. Thanks
No I debunked your stupid post about taking your so called God out of schools.
Did you miss the fact that the above shootings took place where your God was very welcomed?
You make it very clear that you are a very angry, evil person. You challenge others to debate the Bible, claiming you know more that most Christians on that subject. That makes you a liar. There are, without even a hint of research thousands of Christians who know far more than you about the Bible.
Your selfrighteous, holier than thou attitude fits perfectly with your “my way or no way” thought process.
You make a lot of noise but no one is listening. Your lack of credibility is glaringly at the fore.
By your own admission you belived the Bible is 100% BS. You are no Christian, and I doubt you ever were.
You no longer deserve a response to anything you post here…ever.
Take your evil elsewhere.
The typical I’m was never a “True Christian” retort. Very nice. As for me getting angry? Yes I am angry that I have to read another stupid post that says this shooting happened because your God was removed from schools when your God never was. You are so ignorant when it comes to the subject it is not even funny.
Why would your God allow a shooting in an Amish school where God is placed first and foremost before anything else?
You are the one spewing lies and when I present you with facts you call me evil. Your God has allowed men of God to be gunned down in their own church so what is your answer to that? Where those men not godly enough?
It must be hard for you to read the truth and when you do all you can do is attack me for showing you the light.
This is a blog post that you might find interesting to follow: Nate13 • 13 hours ago
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I hate to become a one-trick pony on these message boards, but I’m going to bring up an old theme I’ve been harping on lately: nihilism.
We live in an age of moral relativism that, having no foundation on which to stand, is rapidly descending into nihilism – the absence of morality or any justification for it. I’m going to leave the shooter’s intentions alone for the time, as I’m sure those will be discussed at length for weeks.
I’m talking about nihilism not just in the shooter, but in the broader culture that attempts to understand these horrific events without a moral reference point. In the aftermath, we attempt to get more and more legalistic, bureaucratic, and technocratic to solve problems that can’t be legislated away.
These events are products of sick, evil people in an increasingly sick culture that has no stomach for “outdated” concepts like absolute right and wrong. We believe if we could just pass enough well-worded laws, we could eliminate this behavior from society. We treat these tragedies as outputs, thinking that we can just tinker with the inputs enough to get our desired results.
For God’s sake, the bodies were still warm and we were already talking about piles upon piles of statistics, as if the problem of violent gun crime could be solved mathematically with some study or Congressional inquiry. I’m afraid that, absent the presence of morality in our discussions of these murders, we have no tools to solve the underlying problems except legalism and policy making. People will keep fixating on the problems with guns because we’ve become woefully inadequate at talking about problems inherent in humanity.
It always amuses me in pitying way when I hear people retreat even further into nihilism after an event like this by making that old appeal to the “Argument of Evil” which asks, “If there truly is a good god, why does he allow such evil deeds?” As if the very presence of evil invalidates the possibility or under-pinning for good!
Forgive my frustration, but what right do we have to even speak about evil in our society? We are so immersed in violence, greed, sex, instant gratification, and materialism that we’ve lost all sense of what evil even looks like. To know evil, you must first know good. And while we work ourselves into a righteous huff over “evil” for 2% of the year when these disgusting acts occur, for the other 98% we desperately try to rebel against all forms of conventional morality – that cramps our style, doesn’t it?
A child one minute before passing through the birth canal can have a pair of surgical scissors put through his or her brain without society batting an eye. A fully formed, breathing, crying, desperate, helpless baby who is the result of a botched abortion has no entitlement to life in parts of this “enlightened” Western world. And we talk about “evil”?
Government officials pass guns to cartels to slaughter civilians, and we get to talk about “evil”?
Corrupt businessmen get to use their connections to the power brokers in Washington to access public funds to bail out their billion dollar corporations (who went broke in part due to unbridled greed), and we sit here and talk about evil?
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335739/facts-about-mass-shootings-john-fund#comment-739646252
Kevin, if you knew so much about the Bible, as you claim to, then you would know how and why sin entered this world, what the penalty of that sin is, and the curse of sin on this earth. You would know that God gave man a fee will to either serve Him or reject Him. You would know that God is holy and righteous, and you would know that He is going to judge every person in the end, and that everything, both good and bad, will be brought to light. You would know that God provided a way to escape the judgment of sin, based in holiness and grace. You should be able to go right to the Bible and quote it to debate your point, as you know more than most Christians.
You would know that there are professing Christians, who have a ‘form of godliness’, but deny the God who they say saved them. You would know that your attitude towards God is even predicted in the Bible.
I actually used to be just like you. I was raised in a Christian home, rejected Christ, and felt that all so-called Christians were hypocrites. I bashed them at every opportunity, and knew loads of Scripture, and was willing to debate anybody who claimed to be a Christian. I lived as rebelliously and wickedly as I thought I could get away with, and openly shook my fist in God’s face. It wasn’t until later, after I had been an adult for a few years, that I realized that I wasn’t going to stand before God for someone else, but for myself.
It’s interesting, your rationale for owning guns. It is logical and well-thought out, and is contradictory to how most liberals think. You obviously understand that guns themselves aren’t evil, and that wicked acts are the work of evil men, not the tool they use.
I didn’t reject Christ. After reading the bible and a lot of other books and truly asking questions I became an atheist. There is zero evidence for any sort of god or god’s and the bible is not proof, at all. While the bible has some nice stories it is also filled with murder, rape and incest. I also have no desire to worship anything or anyone that writes 10 laws to follow and then makes the first 3 all about it.
Oh for crying out loud…..drama much ? Seriously ? You can’t have an adult conversation with someone who holds a different opinion than you do ?? So then you resort to pejorative name calling- like some hysterical 6th grader- all because someone holds a different opinion than you ?? And now KOB is somehow evil and angry and a liar and unchristian and self righteous and not credible…..someone you’ve never met someone you don’t even know….your hyper affective responses don’t sound very ‘christian like.’ Not everyone in this country is ‘christian’ and what’s more- doesn’t have to be. So don’t respond to KOB’s posts…..do you really think that will make any difference and that he cares ?
he needs conflict resolution skills.
No he pointed out that there have been murders at schools that ALLOW prayers and GOD … so the argument that the problem is ” no prayers in school” rings hollow . I was in school before and after “they “banned ” school prayer . My assessment is above.–2/3rd of the kids weren’t participating because they were NOT “their prayers” . YOUR religion isn’t MY religion . WE do NOT have ONE religion in the USA ,we have many . They ONLY said the prayers of ONE religion..
may God have mercy on your soul.
There is no god and there is zero proof anyone has a soul.
and you have zero proof there is no God
I don’t have to have proof, I’m not making the claim there is one.
Ummmm what about all the church shootings that have occurred in this country ? Guess ‘god’ isn’t allowed in church either….go figure. Thanks for playing.
…which we can all thank madeline murray O’Hare for removing God and prayer from our schools in the US….how could one woman’s agenda take away the protection of our schools ? Because good law-abiding citizens remained silent. After her reign or evil, her demise and her family’s came at the hands of one of her own.
News flash: Prayer is allowed in school. Students can pray to any god they desire to during school. Each day children recite the pledge which has the words “under god” in it.
As for O’hare she was murdered by an ex-convict who was after money and one of her son’s became a born again Christian.
she hired and trusted the ex-con who robbed and murdered her and her other son
I’m well aware of her greatness. She did more for this country than you ever will.
Kevin, if you had truly read the bible, you would have seen the ten commandments, which state “Have no other Gods before me”, as well as “I am the truth, the way, and the light, and no one comes to the Father, but through me”. Most kids hear nothing of God in their homes. Many have only drug addicted family raising them, and not one person to depend upon. You may have been luckier than most. Morning prayer in school, with their class, gave them a hope that someone higher than themselves was on their side, guiding their steps, keeping them safe. That safety you had is gone, they will never experience it in public school thanks to the late Ms Murray O’Hare.
You do know the 10 commandments come from the OT, correct? And according to you bible folks the OT has no place in today’s world so I have no clue why are you are hanging onto them but if you desire lets look at the first three. It is all about your God and how jealous it is of other God’s. Not a God I want to worship.
You also only believe in a certain God because you where taught to. If you grew up in another part of the world you might have no God at all or your might worship many different God’s.
There is zero reason for any child to be brain washed with any sort of religion but because they are we have children that are willing to blow their selves up in the name of their God which is pretty sick.
If you desire to believe in a God feel free to do so but keep it out of my daughters school. Pray in silent as your bible teaches you and do not make an attempt to force your religious views onto me or my child.
They didn’t say the prayers of 2/3 of my class mates. We were glad they banned them. We got OUR religious instruction outside of school and felt bad for the kids who HAD to get theirs IN school..
Forcing kids to listed to religious propaganda is not allowed in schools.
God is everywhere. The God I worship would not have some gun nut slaughter children in order to convince school districts to make the survivors pray in school.
Who controls evil?
who controls non-evil ?
I’m waiting for an answer to my question.
you presume your religious beliefs are the same as others They are not. I took a religion class once about all main stream religions. It’s amazing the variety and diversity just in the protestant sect. .It “explained” alot .
…but he is still allowed in the home and in religious buildings . EVERY parent and child can pray at home, BEFORE school , so why aren’t they . PERSONAL reponsibility, anyone?.
PS the constitution BANS government from promoting ANY religion. The ONLY religion in the schools was ONE .They didn’t say MY prayers (or my friends’) in school. It was banned because it promoted ONE religion in violation of …drum roll … the constitution that we all hold dear
They did not say the prayers of 2/3 rd of MY classmates in my classroom when they finally banned them. 2/3rd of the students in the classroom didn’t say them and remained silent because they were NOT “their ” prayers.They said prayers that were totally unfamiliar to 2/3rd of the class. WE got our prayers at home and in church and temple..I felt sorry for the kids who HAD to come to school to get THEIR prayers at school. I thought they had neglectful parents. (and I also felt they NEEDED those prayers.. because they were the worst behaved kids) The rest of us were getting our religious instruction outside of school. I couldnt figure out why these kids needed to get their religious instruction AT school.
You do know children each day say “under God” during the pledge correct?
And again….what about all the church shootings that have occurred in this country ? Guess ‘god’ isn’t allowed in church either….go figure.
useful idiots…
Useful for what?
The calls for gun control on the backs of murdered children is disgusting. Nobody cares to look into supporting their familes, yet everybody talks about the killer. Nobody talks about giving us freedoms to defend ourselves, yet they talk excitedly about taking them away.
Sad :[
It is a ploy. We are having our human emotions used and abused by those who have none. I am not watching nor listening to any of the extensive conditioning in the media, but agree it is disgusting that innocent children have been used to further a certain agenda.
you are forgetting that they are the victims, of unlocked, unprotected weapons created only for mass murder
Yes, it’s amazing how much power the weapons manufacturers have. They’ve raked in record profits by using massacres to convince people to buy more, more, more guns! Fortunately, many people are now seeing through their propaganda and demanding gun control NOW.
What’s sadder is…. this keeps happening and nothing changes from one massacre to the next. What of the freedoms of those killed?
Swamp Donk actually sells guns and prescriptions for a living…
And JackWagon you’re actually a freaking jerk
LOL….JackWagon?….seriously?
For sure
LMAO…swamp donk is a sensitive troll
you’re a mental midget
And you have the insult repertoire of a middle school kid.
You believe you have a right to your weapons, and can keep them locked up and safe from potential victims. How then were her weapons accessible and why would she need the assault weapons for anything other than killing the masses ? Should one not need to explain that when registering such a weapon ?
the calls to remain silent ( YET AGAIN) in the face of their deaths is disgusting
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Regulate gun laws as much as you wish but criminals and crazies don’t obey the laws.
Criminals will always find a way to get guns no matter what measures we take, so what’s the point?
‘The question isn’t whether we could snap our fingers and make every gun disappear. It’s whether we can make it harder for criminals to get guns, and harder for an unbalanced person with murderous intent to kill so many people. The goal is to reduce violence as much as possible. There’s no other problem for which we’d say if we can’t solve it completely and forever we shouldn’t even try.’
If it were all about ‘laws’ and ‘regulations,’ Leftists at a loss to explain why states with toughest gun laws have the highest murder rates. Leftists generally at a loss to explain anything they believe in.
The righties who say comments about laws and regulations are the same people who fight to make sure that existing laws are as weak and ineffectual as possible. Our current gun laws are riddled with loopholes and allow people to amass enormous arsenals of military-style weapons with virtually no restrictions. Try again.
1st–the results of availability of guns
“In 2010, guns took the lives of 31,076 Americans in homicides, suicides and unintentional shootings. This is the equivalent of more than 85 deaths each day and more than three deaths each hour…
“Regions and states with higher rates of gun ownership have significantly higher rates of homicide than states with lower rates of gun ownership…
“On average, 49 gun suicides were committed each day for the years 2005-2010… Firearms were used in nearly 44% of suicide deaths among persons under age 25 in 2010… [http://smartgunlaws.org/category/gun-studies-statistics/gun-violence-statistics/]
2nd–the death rate from guns per 100,000 residents in the US.
Here’s a chart: http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000. Massachusetts, NY state, and Connecticut have relatively strict gun laws and are near the bottom of the list.
Washington DC, though still at the top, has strict laws and has seen its murder rate decline significantly: “The number of homicides per year in Washington, D.C., peaked at 479 in 1991, followed by a downward trend in the late 1990s. In 2000, 242 homicides occurred, and the downward trend continued in the 2000s.” [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Washington,_D.C.]
so basically the right has their “facts “wrong yet again and are just throwing the baloney , again!!!
A gun is a tool. It is only as good as it’s owner or owners. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. The Mother of her deceased son owned and everyone one of her firearms were registered in CT as the law requires. This disarranged son killed his Mother and than took some of legal registered firearms out of her house to the school to commit horrific crimes against the innocent. Those guns would be still in her house and she would still be alive if this disarranged young man had left them there. Many parents have to change their mindset and stop giving video games to their children and teenagers that 90 % of the time are violent….and that the object of the game is combat actions and how many you can kill. And these same parents are appalled when they find out that their son or daughter has committed a terrible crime…..where did they learn these ideas……If you are going to have firearms in your home or work place, than have them locked up in a gun safe. Only the combination known by responsible adults. Be close to your children and start paying attention to different changes of patterns in their lives. Start paying attention more to them because these individuals are your responsibility. I don’t have all the answers and neither do you….but we need to start talking about these issues more…..We are all in this together…..we all grieve when the innocent are hurt and taken from us……let us all do our part in hopefully preventing these senseless events from happening again….
People using guns kill people. And if the cops hadn’t gotten there when they did and Lanza took his life (being the coward he was), he had more gun power to take out more innocents.
Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.
‘Maybe, but people with guns kill many, many more people than they would if they didn’t have guns, and guns designed to kill as many people as possible. We don’t know if the murderer in Newtown was suffering from a suicidal depression, but many mass shooters in the past were. And guess what? People suffer from suicidal depression everywhere in the world. People get angry and upset everywhere in the world. But there aren’t mass shootings every few weeks in England or Costa Rica or Japan or China, and the reason is that people in those places who have these impulses don’t have an easy way to access lethal weapons and unlimited ammunition. But if you want to kill large numbers of people and you happen to be an American, you’ll find it easy to do.’
The murder rate in Costa Rica in more than twice that of the United States
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/oct/10/world-murder-rate-unodc
and apparently there are an awful lot of nutty owners..might have something to do with illegal gun sales with no back ground checks.
We already have way too much gun control!
These are Cultural Marxist wackjobs directly attacking the US Constitution. How dare this traitor Tom Franklin call a Constitutional RIGHT “fetishism”. These people are enemies of everything America stands for. This is a Fraud, just like the Maine Domestic Violence Industry which this group also works with to take Mainer’s Constitutional Rights away.
WE THE PEOPLE need to wake up and see the tyranny that is unfolding from these Cultural Marxists who hide behind victims to advance their own totalitarian agenda of disarming American citizens and taking away fundamental RIGHTS to freedom.
If tyranny had anything to do with contemporary life, then mature democracies would be constantly overthrown by despots. But they aren’t. We shouldn’t write laws based on the fantasies of conspiracy theorists.
The ones here arguing that because of a. we need b. need to stay tuned if they don’t want to go find out for themselves that they are being blatantly lied to about this incident!
yeah yeah yeah— scaredy cat. BOO!! Go read what the constitution actually says and get back to us. BE sure you read each and every word and assess what it mean in FULL context ,after reading each and every word..
And I suppose you oppose that socialist liberal anti biullying agenda too —which encourage people to use words not fists to resolve disputes… OMG NOT a thoughtful society—– Oh the HORRORS , the inhumanity!!!
.What we saw FRIDAY was the inhumanity of the rights agenda , of the right letting their votes be OWNED by gun manufacturers and their lobbyists— the NRA. R’s allowed the re-intioduction of the assault rifle. after it was banned for a decade. Windham weapon formerly BUSH Master gave $15,000 donation to Susan Collins ( R-Maine) .
I hate it when my gun decides to get up in the morning and go kill someone.
the rights arguments are hollow and getting knocked down one by one…
The truly disgusting thing about all this is that people are using this tragedy to further their political agenda against gun ownership.
What’s disgusting to me is people like you trying to use the deaths and feigned mourning as a means of blocking conversations about guns. We need to stop these tragedies from happening and yet all you can think about is yourself and your guns.
There was a bomb threat at the church in Newtown during a service yesterday. Should they ban bombs too? http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/17/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-church-idUSBRE8BG00A20121217
what a foolish post.And let ‘s hope they catch the person who was so evil to make such a threat !!! are you rethinking your open carry position??
People must learn to lock their weapons up. Patient confidentiality must be replaced by requiring mental problems reported to the Feds so buyers can be stopped from buying weapons, this will slow down some of the shooters. All the laws in the world will not stop someone who wants a gun from getting one. Money does the talking in the US.
With over 300 million guns already in the hands of private citizens in America, it is a little too late for gun control. What we should be focusing on is violent video game and violent movie control. Something pushed this fragile kid over the edge, The guns were just the easiest way to carry out his heinous fantasy.
It’s not too late. Today is the time to start.
Start where Liz? Kicking doors down and confiscating everyone’s guns? That could get messy. “Gun control” would not have prevented this kid from going off the deep end. He would have just figured out another way to kill those poor children and their teachers. We would have a much better chance at preventing future crimes like this if we stopped making violent video games and violent movies. BTW, I do not own any guns these days.
Agreed, we need to look at the violence we show kids everyday, video games, movies and even cartoons are a far cry from the looney tunes we grew up with…
Where do these sick people get their ideas? television shows and
the media, computers, video games… when all the guns are outlawed
the media will show them how to build other mass destruction devices
If only the officce had some mace or or other device at their disposal??
Stop exploiting tragedy. 27 innocent people are dead. Connecticut has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. It’s a shame that President Obama deliberately cut funding for security at schools this year. The teacher who saved 16 of her students while dying herself is a heroine in this sick and senseless mess. Using tragedy for political purposes is disgusting but nothing new in our country recently. Raum Emanuel (former Obama White House Chief of Staff) said “Never let a crisis go to waste”. This is what America has come to – a bunch of deceitful liars running our country who were legitimately elected by selfish Americans hoping for a handout. America doesn’t have a “gun problem” it has a cultural problem – our movies and video games glorify murder, rape, and every form of evil but no one will stand up and address that. Responsible citizens who have morals have a healthy fear of their Creator – our schools are producing sociopaths who think they can create their “own” morality. America was built on Biblical principles and without a respect for human life or God who creates all life we collectively have no future as a culture.
Extremely well stated…..thank-you for your comments……
Your partisan rant is the exact thing that you accuse others of doing. It is one thing to be a religious hypocrit, quite another to be both a religious AND political one. Your god and guns riff is bizarre, and that hardly describes what is wrong with your thinking on this…
You’re the one exploiting the deaths in order to block a conversation about guns. It’s a canard. When is the appropriate time to have a discussion if not now? The window between these routine tragedies isn’t that large, so tell us how long we should wait.
The only “gun control” measure which might help a little is to ban weapons sales to anyone on psychotropic medications. Physicians would be required to notify the state of any and all such individuals so they would be put on a no weapons lists along with felons.
The Constitution says I have a right to own guns.Yes it does, but for some reason gun advocates think that the right to bear arms is the only constitutional right that is virtually without limit. You have the right to practice your religion, but not if your religion involves human sacrifice. You have the right to free speech, but you can still be prosecuted for incitement or conspiracy, and you can be sued for libel. Every right is subject to limitation when it begins to threaten others, and the Supreme Court has affirmed that even though there is an individual right to gun ownership, the government can put reasonable restrictions on that right.
And we all know that if this shooter turns out to have a Muslim name, plenty of Americans, including plenty of gun owners, will be more than happy to give up all kinds of rights in the name of fighting terrorism. Have the government read my email? Have my cell phone company turn over my call records? Check which books I’m taking out of the library? Make me take my shoes off before getting on a plane, just because some nut tried to blow up his sneakers? Sure, do what you’ve got to do. But don’t make it harder to buy thousands of rounds of ammunition, because if we couldn’t do that we’d no longer be free.
People argue for INDIVIDUAL gun rights as if that is what has and will keep “freedom” safe in this country. It is a unsubstantiated notion but a strong one. I own a gun, and have lots of friends who own guns. They hunt or shoot clay pigeons. I’ve met competitive shooters. Not any of them have expressed the need for high capacity assault weapons. Opposition to a ban on these types of weapons has got nothing to do with “freedom,” and protecting against “tyranny.” The funny thing is for me to say such a thing will illicite death threats. So much for my freedom to state my opinion from these self proclaimed defenders of freedom.
Individual gun ownership will protect against a tyrannical govt? Really? The only armed uprising against the established govt was the Civil War… A collection of states that appropriated the state militias to rebel against the federal govt. Small bands of extremists wouldnt last a week once they proclaim their intentions.
Extremists make sensible conversation about gun ownership impossible… The NRA has turned into the national mouthpiece for many of these extremists, and for me to say so, puts my life in danger… Land of the free… Hmmm.
We have all seen how great the laws against drugs have worked. Prohibition only works for those who actually follow the law. It does not, and never will, work against criminals or those determined to get what they want. Not all drug addicts are criminals, yet they still are able to obtain their illegal drugs.
If we disarm ourselves, who is going to protect us from the criminals who obtain their guns illegally? The police? As much as I respect the police (I have a brother who is a captain in another state), in many situations they arrive too late and then have to solve a murder. I would rather not end up as a murder statistic.
Are we going to prohibit bats, knives, tire irons, fireplace pokers too? All of these can be considered weapons and in the wrong hands can facilitate a murder. We cannot ban everything that can cause harm or there will nothing left.
It’s time for bureaucrats and those who decry guns to face reality: There are no bad weapons; there are only bad people with bad intentions. The weapon (whether gun, bat, ice pick, etc.) doesn’t kill – PEOPLE DO!
Big difference between gun control and a gun ban. A ban on assault weapons is not unreasonable. I haven’t heard of any incidents in this country where someone protected themselves or their families from a criminal, burglar, rape or assault with an semi-automatic assault rifle.
time is coming family’s will need to protect themselves.With the division in this country now.Those that do not prepare are the ones we need to fear the most.
You can’t read if you haven’t seen it! It happens every single day. How do you plan to confiscate all the high capacity mags & assault rifles out there now? All it will do is jack up the price of them as they’ll still be out there in public places. You can go online now and buy 500 if you choose to do so. Who will come collect them? Only the criminals will have them if this ban happens.
Well let’s just have no laws and see how that works…and no one is saying that all guns need to be regulated (not banned R E G U L A T E D) Why does anyone need an AK-47? To go out and kill 32 deer ? 32 Moose ? 32 bear ? No…to kill 32 people….that is the ONLY reason why people have assault rifles. We are not having 11,000 murders a year do to knives or fire pokers or spoons, but we are having that many murders a year by guns……so by all means let’s continue to do nothing because we can all see how well THAT has been working in this country.
To kill people is not the only reason people own assault rifles… Most enjoy shooting them for sport, target practicing, or coyote hunting. No gun law will keep a criminal or physco from killing people if that is his true intent. Law abiding citizens have a right to protect themselves, family and property.
Let’s see – how many guns were used on 911 at the World Trade Towers? At the Pentagon? Or at the Federal Building in Oklahoma City? Or By Ted Kuzinski? etc…
A bad man will always be able to get a gun even if illegal…. a good man needs his gun to make his house safe from the bad man who can get the illegal gun. people better really think this through with common sense before they go anti gun. If you take a gun away from a good citizen, then the bad guys will have an open field day on committing violence on peoples property and person. remember you may not always be able to call 911 and if you are there may not be enough time for a responce. I think we should disarm the punks in the country who cmmit violence of anykind.
You know, you bring up a great point. I was wondering…If a responsible, armed citizen had walked into that school about the time this was happening and had pulled their weapon to shoot the shooter, would the anti-gun folks start screaming “no! Don’t shoot him! You shouldn’t have that gun! Let him kill everyone”??? Seriously! I do have to wonder if they would change their mind if THEY were in a situation where an armed citizen could save their (and others’) lives.
I just heard today on the news that some teachers in texas schools carry handguns for protection for them and their students. What was also said today is that the gunmen opened fire at the locked door and shot his way in, giving to the sad fact we need armed security at all doors in schools, or at least heavier door with security at the main entrance. so sad to think od such things and more sad to think of how kids are being brought up to fear everyone and evrything.
as the issue of guns becomes more inflamed, this thought.
“If, like most of mankind, you have passionate convictions on many…matters, there are ways in which you can make yourself aware of your own bias,” wrote the British philosopher Bertrand Russell. “If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do…. The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way…. So whenever you find yourself getting angry about a difference of opinion, be on your guard; you will probably find, on examination, that your belief is going beyond what the evidence warrants.”
You — or rather Bertrand Russell — make a valid point in a society where civil discourse is the rule. When I sit down with people I respect, I seldom get angry when we disagree — AND, I don’t disrespect people wtih whom I disagree. But I cannot listen to, and get angry at, someone who shouts at me. I get angry when someone lies to me (or refuses to acknowledge the truth) when making an argument. My instinct is to depart from rational thought in these circumstances. In today’s discourse, sadly, shouting one’s point is the rule. Lying, or disregarding the truth, in discourse is acceptable.
God Bless those innocent souls who senselessly lost their lives on Friday. It is still surreal and unimaginable.
On the gun control topic, I find it interesting that my liberal friends who espouse personal freedom – to smoke weed, abort fetuses, etc. – are crying out against gun ownership. I guess that “freedom” argument only works when it is convenient for them.
You might be projecting your own thoughts on those of your liberal friends. I am liberal about lots of things, even gun ownership, owning one myself. I have a right to shout fire in a crowded room when there is no fire, but it has been wisely decided to limit that right given the inherent dangers of doing so. It is not unreasonable to limit automatic or semi-automatic assault weapons or high capacity clips given their inherent danger in society. You have no monopoly on that “freedom” argument.
Stating fact, not projecting. Thanks for your enlightened commentary, though.
I personally support effective gun control. I also own guns and do not worry that the Governemnt has any interest in taking them from me. But, given the number of guns that already exist in this country, what laws can we pass that actually reduce the number of these tragedies? In other words, what is EFFECTIVE gun control? I suppose harsher penalties for those who allow mentally ill people access to guns will look like a positive step, as might a ban on large ammunition clips. Still, will that really reduce gun deaths in the US, or will it just be a “show” — a case of trying to “stand up” to the NRA? I do not blame the politician who won’t vote for a token and ineffective ban on a particular type of gun or ammunition because she fears the retribution of a motivated NRA targeting her for her vote. I think we should look at it another way: we should work toward effective VIOLENCE control. Let’s put more resources into treatment for the mentally ill. Let’s give our kids something else to do than play violent videogames. Let’s work to eradicate poverty in the US, to improve our schools and strengthen our families with income security.
More laws for gun control is not the answer and will do absolutely nothing to prevent attacks like the one in CT! In almost every case in the weeks prior to a violent attack, there are signs or indications ignored by the family, doctors, friends and in some cases law enforcement officers that could have prevented the attack! Creating more laws for the decent, responsible gun owners will only create problems, not cure any! You gun control freaks need to grab yourself by the ears and pull your head out of your butts and address real issues that can prevent these horrific crimes!
We need to allow teachers to arm themselves .They would then no longer be victims but defenders.My daughter is a 2nd grade teacher and she would be more than happy to be the first line of defense in protecting her children.
Leave my guns alone & I’ll leave your fattening soda (pop) alone & also your cigarettes/alcohol & Cheeto’s. These items kill a heck of lot more people than guns do. Get real Maine. Lock up the crazies or exterminate them would be better. Did a Fork make Rosie O’Donnell fat as a pig? Does a Pencil misspell words?
For the sake of discussion,let’s say we ban “assault type weapons”, which
are nothing more than a semi-automatic hunting rifle with a different
look. So now with a stroke of a liberal pen, they are now gone.
Now let’s look at the deranged killer looking for his news cycle of
fame. He just runs down to L.L. Bean and buys a Remington Model 1100
semi-automatic 12 gauge shotgun with the shortest barrel available and
an open choke such as improved cylinder. He then buys a box of 12 gauge 0
buckshot which is a single shell with nine roughly 9mm projectiles
inside. He then removes the plug from the magazine to accommodate five
rounds of said buckshot. With a Bushmaster, for one pull of the trigger,
you send a single projectile down range. With the shotgun, with a
single pull of the trigger, you send nine rounds downrange in a very
wide pattern. Thus, with this legal weapon, the killer now can send
forty five deadly projectiles down range with five pulls of the trigger
an no reloading. With the Bushmaster, that much firepower down range
would require forty five individual trigger pulls and at least one
magazine change.
What have you solved in this scenario? Nothing.
The bottom line is that when a deranged person wants to commit a mass
killing, they will commit a mass killing. Ever read about these people
called suicide bombers? How would you like to force the deranged killers
into the use of that weapon, the suicide vest. Picture one of those
being activated in an elementary school.The body count will be far
greater.
Our politicians and liberal pacifists who desire that not a single
firearm be privately owned in this country and that we all sit around
and sing Cum By Ya need to stop their politicization of human tragedy
under the veil of “what’s good for America” and “preventing more
tragedy”. We all see each of them for what they are. Self serving
opportunists who have the gall to use human suffering to advance their
agenda.
They are despicable human beings.
The true answer to stopping these atrocities is dealing with the perpetrator, not their chosen tool.
Thank god common people were allowed to carry guns.Those common people fought for our rights with guns .Rights even for the people that are against guns to say so.This country needs to stop the social PC crap,fix the economy and have a grown up discussion about a path forward.
We should stand up to the NRA. They are radically extreme. There is no reason to sell assault weapons.
Humanity has survived despite evil because the overwhelming majority of human beings are good and decent. The Consitiution of the United States was crafted in full knowledge of this fact and designed to protect individual citizens full expression of their lives by limiting the powers of government in exerting excessive and abusive power.
We are free to choose our individual lives as long as we don’t hurt ourselves or anyone else (at which time the judicial system takes over) but freedom isn’t free. We owe every returning military member the responsibility to use our freedom as the founders intended.
Reality includes evil, as it always has. Lack of morality aids and abets it. A choice to affirm a goodness morality, no matter what religion or ideology is chosen is the path foward in the country that provides the Freedom we know as citizens of the United States of America.
And the founders envisioned the average Joe needing access to assault weapons of today when they crafted the Constitution?
Original intent is clear. “Arms” to the founders meant muskets and the other weaponry of the colonial period.
I challenge you to predict the defense technology which will be available to the common American 200-300 years from today and to judge right now whether or not Americans should or should not have the technology available against the enemies they will face and which I ask you to specify here in your reply post, today.
The purpose was for a militia, not for citizens to stockpile assault weapons.
You didn’t tell us how Americans 200-300 years in the future should defend themselves or the technology they will have access to.
I don’t think Americans need to defending with firearms right now (especially given the fact that the mother of the shooter was killed by the exact same weapons she obtained to defend herself in the first place) and I don’t think they will need them in the future either.
And I don’t think self-defense was the intent of the 2nd Amendment.
Sam Adams would agree with you…..right?
“We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.” Ronald Regan
Is it a Coincidence,,,, think about it…. a majority and the increase of mass murders especially by young people, rose significantly when the all ” too common violent video games ” first came out and are now a standard and best sellers among kids and young adults. what about all the tv programs on today csi and that junk of crime shows… If you keep repeating a lie often enough an unstable mind will believe it to be truth. Same for a video or movie
So we should ban TV programs and video games but do nothing about guns?
Wow, a whole 100 people. Let’s get right on that.
this isn’t a time for gun control,,,it is more a time for realizing that we have a mental health issue that is growing out of control!!! the connection between all of these mass shootings are the psychotropic drugs that they all take!! people,,,the same day this took place, a man in china used a steak knife to slash 22 children in a chinese elementary school,,,,if the guns get taken away,,,they will use any tool they can to do the nasty job they have in mind! wake up people!
Innocent lives were taken and I can understand the human response to want to prevent this from happening again; however, as china proved, gun control may not be the way. China had a school massacre the same day – only instead of a gun the killer stabbed 22 student victims – something that has happened more than once. Perhaps we need to focus onto tighter security at the schools (auto locking one-way doors for emergency situations etc…).
Also, the second amendment is to protect/defend ourselves from a tyrannical government, not just for home defense. Both Stalin and Hitler implemented gun control prior to their reigns of terror. Most of the countries that are at war right now also have gun control/gun confiscation set in place. For all of the trolls out there, I’m not saying that Obama is going to be the next Hitler, but what about down the road? Gun control does have the ability to open up futures that are not necessarily in our best interest and as none of us can predict the future – guns are a needed tool for us to ensure our freedoms. But of course, we in America for some reason think that it is something that could never happen to us even though history is riddled with such control, dictatorship, and military states.
I’ve also been finding that a lot of anti-gun (not all, but some) persons don’t know what the difference between semi automatic and automatic is. Or how few seconds it takes a skilled person to change a magazine even if you did restrict the sizes.
That all being said, I have no problem with background checks.
And all 22 students in China lived.
Next.
I have guns…to hunt. I own rifles and shotguns, I do not need assault weapons nor thousands of rounds of ammo. Let’s be realistic. We should bring back the ban on assault weapons what to you really need them for? I do not want to ban all weapons. I am not even debating handguns, Just because I do not own one. But truly ask yourself do you really need an assault weapon?
Yes, I do need an assault weapon. An M-4 was a large part of my life for a number of years… I enjoy target shooting & hunting coyote with it. Gun control only effects law abiding citizens. Crimnals are exacly that, criminals. If they intend to harm someone, they will find a way to do so. No law will stop that
Then why do we worry about certain countries obtaining nuclear weapons? If they’re going to harm us, they’ll find a way to do so, right?
I believe they already did… Have you heard of 9/11?
So answer my question. Why do we worry about certain countries obtaining nuclear weapons?
If you are serioulsy comparing an assault rilfle to a nuclear weapon, than I really can’t debate with you. They are hugely different, and I think you know that.
Why are they different??? Sounds like you are saying that we only need to worry about weapons that can kill millions of people rather than thousands of people? Who made YOU God?
I’m using your logic. You say that objects are just objects and that it’s people that commit the crimes. And you said that people will do harm if they want to do harm — you’re the one who made such a broad claim.
911 to progressives was a good thing.It enabled them to blame the U.S and push there social agenda.
Coyote hunters were successful with out M-4s. Both sides will need to give. I am willing to say let them ban the assault rifles before they attempt to ban it all. Don’t say it won’t happen, They have banned God in public places and freedom of religion is one of our rights. Smoking is being banned somewhere new everyday. I am sure if I look I can find other personal freedoms that have been taken. And before you get your knickers in a knot. I am not a smoker nor to I preach religion. I am making comparisons. A few can turn the tide. Compromise before we are stripped of more then
Ahh yes……….God and Guns go together like mom and apple pie for conservative extremists.
Because I do not agree with assault weapons I am an extremist? And as I said I was making comparisons. Did you not read the smoking comparison? I do not believe God supports that or maybe God does. I am a member of the NRA, but I do not believe in assault rifles. Like it or not that is my right. Call me what you will, but you sir are narrow minded and it is your way or you revert to name calling. I would call that bullying, but again that is my opinion.
Banning of assault rifles is not needed… I am however on board with limiting the capacity of a magazine to 10-15 rounds. I agree no one outside of law enforcement or military has a need for 30rd mags.
Opinionated at least we can agree on this. I respect your opinion and I will admit mine may not be the answer. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
This nonsense of “gun control” will never work, there was an almost identical incident in which a killer entered a school and killed students and teachers with a knife, this was in China.
Many people have been killed with clubs, even with hands alone. Gun control will not stop these murders.
Ah, no. There were injuries in China, but no deaths that I’m aware of. Another tragedy for sure from a lunatic.
When I first heard of the knife attack I assumed that the deaths were due to this attack, I was incorect. There have been a series of knife, hammer and cleaver attacks over the last few years that have left more than 20 children dead and almost 100 injured
NRA = new American mafia
Friday morning a horrible thing happened in SandyHook, Newtown, Connecticut, a 20 year old broke into a elementary school and killed 20 six year olds. He also killed, counting himself, 8 adults. His name is unimportant, what is important is how some rotten, no good, heartless nothos are using this tragedy to further their own political or social goals, calling for new laws, rules, etc within hours of the death of these men, women and kids.
In Mark chapter ten, we read the account of a rich man coming to Jesus and saying: “Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” Jesus tells him and the rich man ends up by being dejected and leaving, for Jesus had told him “ One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”
Then after the rich man had left, Jesus turned to His disciples and said: “Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”
The disciples then said to Jesus: “Who then can be saved?”
And Jesus responds with, and this is key to the slaughter at Sandy Hook Elementary school, “With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.”
Why is that so important? What makes the words of Christ, “with God all things are possible.” so very, very important?
Stay with me a bit and you will understand.
In the book of Genesis chapters 37&38, as dictated to Moses by God Almighty, we read the account of Joseph, who at a young age was sold into slavery by his 10 older jealous brothers. In chapter 45 we see Joseph making himself known to his brothers, and in chapter 50 we see his brothers coming to him, after the death of their father, and begging for their lives: “they sent a messenger unto Joseph, saying, ‘Thy father did command before he died, saying, ‘So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil:’ ‘and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father’.”
Then Joseph said to His brothers and this too is key: “ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good”
Now let’s connect the dots. Last Friday a young man who, according to his face book page, was both a communist and a satan worshiper, a young man who according to those who went to school with him ,was a Goth, a person who dressed in black and worshiped the devil. This young man went into the Sandy Hook Elementary School with two others and killed 20 little kids aged 6 and 7 and 6 adults, a horrific act of child sacrifice to the evil one The devil meant this to be pure evil, God Almighty can and I suspect will, make this into something good. For “with God all things are possible.”
I don’t know how God will make the deaths of 20 little ones into something good, but I know that we will never hear about it on the media of evil. but one thing God may do to bring some good out of this tragedy is to touch the hearts of Christian parents, leading them to remove their precious little ones from the public schools and home schooling them. Maybe God will go even further and touch the hearts of Pastors of real Christian churches leading them to open Christian schools or at the very least moving them to open class room space to home schooling parents to be used for joint studies and special events.
For with God, the God we who are truly Born Again Washed in the Blood of the Lamb Christians serve, “all things are possible”, and our God can, and I am sure will make this horrific act into something good.