PORTLAND, Maine — Bishop Richard Malone, head of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Portland, announced Thursday the formation of a new ministry to support people with same-sex attraction.
Malone announced in a press release the establishment of a local chapter of Courage, a worldwide spiritual support group based in Norwalk, Conn.
The Rev. Kevin Martin, who serves St. Michael Parish in Augusta, has been appointed the chaplain for the ministry.
“This service is being initiated in response to requests from people who desire the church’s assistance,” Sue Bernard, spokeswoman for the diocese, said in the press release.
Courage was founded in 1980 in the Archdiocese of New York. The organization now has has more than 100 chapters and more than 1,500 people on its electronic mailing list worldwide, according to information on its website. The program is patterned after 12-step programs such as Alcoholics Anonymous.
“Courage offers hope and encouragement to men and women who desire to live in accordance with the church’s teaching on homosexuality — specifically that the dignity and identity of every person is not determined by their sexual attractions, but by their relationship with the Lord and their striving to live the virtues of faith, hope and charity,” Bernard said.
The Rev. Mark Doty, pastor of Hammond Street Congregational Church and a gay man, said Thursday in an email that he was offended by “the notion that ‘persons with same-sex attraction’ would require a support group.
“In my view, it is presumptuous and wrong-headed to equate homosexuality with addictive behavior,” said Doty, who was ordained by the United Church of Christ. “Same-sex loving people reflect an orientation, a way of viewing the world. To my mind, what takes genuine courage is for people to love and serve God and openly acknowledge that they are also lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender. I’m convinced that the cloak of anonymity of this ‘ministry’ seeks to protect heterosexuals from imagined evils and does no favors for the LGBT community, their families or society in general.”
The five goals for Courage participants are to:
• Live chaste lives in accordance with the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching on homosexuality.
• Dedicate their lives to Christ through service to others, spiritual reading, prayer, meditation, individual spiritual direction, frequent attendance at Mass and the frequent reception of the sacraments of Reconciliation and Holy Eucharist.
• Foster a spirit of fellowship in which all may share thoughts and experiences and so ensure that no one will have to face the problems of homosexuality alone.
• Be mindful of the truth that chaste friendships are not only possible but necessary in a chaste Christian life and in doing so provide encouragement to one another in forming and sustaining them.
• Live lives that may serve as good examples to others.
The group follows the moral teachings and spiritual practices of the Catholic Church but is open to people of all faiths, Bernard said in the press release.
Courage support groups practice a policy of anonymity and confidentiality. The local chapter will meet where there is a need and the locations will be disclosed only to those who plan to participate.
For information about participating, call Martin at 592-5332 or email courage@portlanddiocese.org.
Better sign all their priests up first.
They are already signed up with the vow of chastity, let us pray to the Lord.
Judica me et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta: ab homine iniquo et doloso erue me.
Judge me oh God and distinguish my cause from that of an ungodly nation: and deliver me from the unjust and deceitful man. This is the translation.
“They are already signed up with the vow of chastity”
It just doesn’t cover kids.
you are right, there is no excuse for violating children.
yeah, like they honor that vow!
The priests have been sexually molesting children. This is absolutely not the same as being homosexual.
I never mentioned children. Having grown up in a catholic family, it was fully understood that in the early 20th century, you could be gay and enter the catholic orders with impunity.
That ended in the early 1960’s.
what about when a priest is molesting boys? Isn’t that homosexuality?
No, that’s pedophilia.
Can a homosexual be a pedophile?
The driving force for a pedophile is the sexual attraction to a minor child not the gender of the child.
I understand that. But can a homosexual be a pedophile?
Obviously you don’t or you wouldn’t be asking the question.
The likelihood of a heterosexual being a pedophile is far greater than a homosexual or bi-sexual. But the underlying sexual attraction is the age of the victim.
Now, we are not talking about pedophiles or people looking to engage in bestiality or wanting to join with an apple pie.
We are talking about two consenting adults.
Do you understand that?
Yes, in your own patronizing way you have answered my question.
No bandbox you were attempting to take the discussion down a path that many have tried in the past and have not succeeded.
Every time the conversation to allow two consenting adults to marry someone, and this time it was you, attempt to make the link of pedophilia and homosexuality when the link does not exist.
Homosexuality is not against the law. Two consenting adult can engage in sexuality activity. The attraction is to the same sex. It is not a crime.
Pedophilia is against the law. A child cannot, anywhere in the United States give consent to an adult to engage in sexuality activity. The attraction is to the AGE of the victim. It IS a crime.
So if you feel that I have been “patronizing” to bad. In your own unique way, your questions demand it.
Even without your caps, I understand that the primary attraction in pedophilia is the age of the victim. But some pedophiles prefer the same sex and others the opposite sex, and that’s what I’m getting at. Pedophiles may be homosexual, heterosexual, or bi-sexual; you say so yourself in your answer to my second comment.
I also understand that homosexuality is not against the law and that acts of pedophilia are against the law. That’s obvious, and I don’t know why you go into that when it has nothing to do with my questions or comments. And you shouldn’t get so defensive about homosexuality because of my questions and assume that I am trying to link homosexuality with pedophilia.
My response was a measured response to your post.
And I think you protest to much about not attempting to “link homosexuality with pedophilia.”
As I stated others have tried and failed too.
Pedophilia “is” a sexual orientation of it’s own, and legality has nothing to do with attractions.
Well the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorder DSM-IV defines “pedophilia as a psychiatric disorder in adults or late adolescents (persons age 16 or older) typically characterized by a primary or
exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally age 13
years or younger, though onset of puberty maypedophilia as a pa vary).”
I don’t see the word “orientation” in that definition, do you?
Is above that it , in plain words, it is known to be a negative reaction to childhood exposure to strict, stiff, authoritarian adult role models, alone.
But it is greatly aggravated by exposure to either physical or sexual child abuse, as well.
Please read your posts before you post them….”Is above that it”?????
I really have no clue what you are attempting to say.
You won’t get a strait answer from him, especially when he gets painted into a corner.
Unfortunately, people from commenters on the BDN to presidential candidate Rick Santorum have linked or lumped together homosexuality, pedophilia, and bestiality. It’s hard to tell if someone is asking legitimate questions or trying to claim that gay men molest young boys.
Being exposed to that type of thinking puts many of us on the defensive. I don’t know his story, but I can tell you that I am tired of people assuming that gay men just want little boys.
”
Unfortunately, people from commenters on the BDN to presidential candidate Rick Santorum have linked or lumped together homosexuality, pedophilia, and bestiality.”
How hard is getting to even try to respect that non-sense over and over again ?
But never the intended tactic effort, just look at that for what actually says;
” I’m ignorant enough to think that homosexuality, pedophilia, and bestiality are all the same thing.
So YOU should vote for a man like ME. ”
Your not being very “Christian” cp444. Not very “Christian” at all.
And how would you know?
By your judgemental comments cp444, by your judgemental comments.
The question is: how would you know what a Christian is supposed to behave like? I love how you unbelievers are always taking Scripture out of context and telling believers how they are suppose to behave all the while promoting homosexuality which God abhors. Total hypocrisy.
But more importantly, is this not a secular society? Isn’t the U.S. Constitution the basis for our laws and the U.S. Supreme Court the final arbiter? Isn’t a marriage license issued by the state? Doesn’t the state allow for civil marriage ceremonies in addition to religious ones?
So if the answer to each of the above questions is “Yes” how do you justify overriding a secular societies law with the Christian version of “Sharia” law?
WOW! You are the king of deflection. I’ll repeat…. you are not able to answer a question when you get painted into a corner, which happens quite often btw. You have absolutely no interest in anything other than “being right” even when you’re clearly wrong. A full blooded pragmatist.
“WOW! You are the king of deflection.”
Have you ever met a question about this secular country that you can answer?
~~~~~
“I’ll repeat…. you are not able to answer a question when you get painted into a corner, which happens quite often btw.”
Translation – “I cannot possibly answer those questions because if I do, it will undermine my arguments against same sex marriage.”
~~~~~
“You have absolutely no interest in anything other than “being right” even when you’re clearly wrong.”
Translation – Typical deflection. Take the spotlight off of cp444 and shift it somewhere else. Very typical deflection when answering the questions will result in a negative out come for ones (in this case cp444s) position.
~~~~~
“A full blooded pragmatist”
Translation – “When nothing else works attempt to cast doubt that the U.S. Constitution is not the supreme law of the land and that the U.S. Supreme Court is not the final judge on secular law”
Well since you seemed that it was necessary to post your comment twice I will post my response twice too.
No bandbox you were attempting to take the discussion down a path that many have tried in the past and have not succeeded.
Every time the conversation to allow two consenting adults to marry someone, and this time it was you, attempt to make the link of pedophilia and homosexuality when the link does not exist.
Homosexuality is not against the law. Two consenting adult can engage in sexuality activity.
The attraction is to the same sex. It is not a crime.
Pedophilia is against the law. A child cannot, anywhere in the United States give consent to an adult to engage in sexuality activity. The attraction is to the AGE of the victim. It IS a crime.
So if you feel that I have been “patronizing” to bad. In your own unique way, your questions demand it.
Did you know the age of consent for the Vatican City is 12? Yep 12 years old is old enough for the catholic church to consider you able to consent to sexual intercourse with an adult.
Well I guess I am going to ask you for proof from a reputable source to back up your claim. I have tried to confirm it and haven’t found a source which I will trust so since you made the claim, please back it up.
Mmm. Joining with an apple pie sounds delicious!
Gender-specific sexual orientation has nothing to do with pedophlia. Any adult can be a pedophile, gay or straight.
I understand that heterosexuals, homosexuals, and bi-sexuals can all be child molesters, but I’m not at all sure that your first statement is true. Sexuality is complicated, and there are probably differences of opinion on the issue. In order to answer it, there would have to be reliable tests on the proportion of same-sex child molesters to opposite-sex child molesters.
a person of any sexual orientation can be a pedophile. According to FBI statistics, though, over 95% of all pedophiles are heterosexual men. Pedophilia is about power and control, and sex and the associated shame around it are a way to manipulate that control.
Given the very large percentage of men who are heterosexual, I don’t think that FBI statistic means much. Do you know of any reliable studies on the ratio of same-sex child molestation to opposite-sex child molestation?
Yes.
jd answered exactly what I would have. I’m going to add that most adults that commit the crime of molesting children are heterosexual males.
Since approximately 95% of males are heterosexual, just how significant is it that “most” child molesters come from this group? Wouldn’t you think it pretty odd if that weren’t the case?
Interesting point. I would say that in the absence of research into the relative percentages of child molesters among each group – heterosexuals, homosexuals, and bi-sexuals – there’s no significance to it.
Please don’t mistake homosexuality with sexual abuse. Homosexuality suggests love and commitment, molestation suggests violence.
yeah, one sexual deviation or another.
Haha funny but people have no problem comparing homosexuality with pedophiles.
I bet that the percentage of gay priests is higher than the general public, and will be as long as the catholic church requires “celibacy” as a requirement for priesthood. That will only attract two types of men. The very devout and the ones that aren’t attracted to women anyway.
I, too, believe that the dignity and identity of every person is not determined by their sexual attractions, but by their relationship with the Lord and their striving to live the virtues of faith, hope and charity. And, that is exactly why homosexuals should be treated fairly and allowed to live their lives in an open and proud manner. If only people would open up their hearts and minds and treat everyone with respect. This organization would rather have homosexuals deny their very beings. It is very disturbing.
Oh yeah, here comes the homosexuals hate the Catholics and Mormons lobby…3…2…1…
First of all, I am not homosexual. I just simply believe in equality for all. What this organization is saying is that homosexuals should hate themselves and want to change. That kind of thought is full of hate and disrespectful.
it is no different than all of the other messags that the catholic church tells is.
we are wretched, we are sinners
“twas grace that saved a wrech like me.” gays are not special in the eyes of the judgmental
(oh, and Matthew got it wrong.. Jesus never said, jugdge not lest ye be judged” it was judge away… be pious, and proclaim from the highest mountaintops:
“I are better than you are… and that unlike the hellbound demon trash in YOUR car, my children are SAVED”
pffft… matthew… dummy
Obviously the Church doesn’t like homosexuals, that’s the reason for these groups. We are born gay or straight and God made all of us. God made some people gay. So what? I know 2 women who are in a gay relationship and a man in a gay relationship. Do I understand it? no, I don’t but I know that they love their respective partners and none of these people would be happy in a hetersexual relationship, just as I wouldn’t be in a gay relationship. It is time we accept people as they are and love them as God made them.
God “did not make some people gay”…Being gay is the choice of the
individual…Very bad choice…
Scientifically you’re wrong. I saw (ok this is embarassing) on Dr. Oz that a CAT scan of homosexuals brains showed that they (the brains) were more similar to the brains of the opposite gender that to the brains of their own gender. That was brain structure, which as far as I know can’t be altered by free choice.
and your research is based on……
From first hand knowledge, I can absolutely tell you it is not a choice.
Do you have a spouse? Did you choose to fall in love with said spouse?
I have a spouse and I never chose to fall in love with him, but I did, and 13 years later we are more in love than ever.
I was recently out of state for business and gone one night, I couldn’t wait to come back home and just be together, watching movies in front of the fire. Really, its as simple as that.
One of this support group’s missions is to help people deal with the “problems of homosexuality”
There are no sorts of problems in my life, I am a successful businessperson with a happy, healthy and secure home life.
With a 50% divorce rate in this country for straight couples,perhaps Bishop Malone should focus his attentions and his church’s money eleswhere.
SIC:)
People are NOT gay by choice.
Skippy — surely you must be right. Check out this great clip from the documentary, “For The Bible Tells Me So,” which I know you’ll enjoy: http://youtu.be/LYMjXucTFaM
I like how people who are ‘supposedly’ not gay, think they can speak for gay people by saying it is a choice. As if any gay person just woke up one morning and said to themselves, “life isn’t hard enough as it is, so why don’t I just become gay”. You know, there are just tons of people who would jump at the chance to be hated, ridiculed, harassed, and the focus of intolerant bigot filled catholic groups. Get over yourself.
You don’t get to choose to ” be hated, ridiculed, harassed, and the focus of intolerant bigot … groups.”
The historical and Biblical record both shows that you must be born into a group that is hated in this organized way, like the Philistines.
There, is that not Biblical proof, as valid as any other Biblical proof, that gays are born gay, then ?
Well ?
I’m sure as you know exactly what your talking about because you’ve walked in a gay person’s shoes. You are a jerk.
Being a Catholic fascist certainly is a choice, an evil, Un-American choice.
OK, tell us when you choose to be straight. If homosexuals choose to be gay, then sexuality is a choice for all of us. Since it isn’t, and you know that, this line of argument is a fraud.
“OK, tell us when you choose to be straight.”
There is the right reply.
Bookmark it for use later this years as the outta State hate groups gang up with the Bishop to bombard us with their lies and misinformation, again
> being gay is a personal choice.
So, with a starry eyed, romantic look, ask;
“Oh, so do your remember your first time ?”
> Huh, what ?
“Yeah, they say you never forget your first time, and if everyone’s sexuality is a their own choice, can’t you remember how old you were and all about the first time YOU DECIDED to be straight ? ”
: )
Is pedophilia a choice?
It is known to be a negative reaction to childhood exposure to strict, stiff, authoritarian adult role models, alone.
But it is greatly aggravated by exposure to either physical or sexual child abuse, as well.
What do you think?
Like I said earlier, typical non answer by JD. If he can’t wiki it he can’t answer it.
LOL you funny man. Wiki LOL…I use Wiki that is a real knee slapper.
But God does make people who are innately attracted to people of the opposite gender or the same gender or to both genders …… acting on any attraction is a choice. You choose to act on your attraction do you not? Did you choose what gender you are attracted to or is it innate?
Care to share chapter and verse?
If we are created in God’s image doesn’t that mean that he creates everyone?
Another non answer. I’ll ask the question again , care to share chapter and verse where God made people attracted to the same sex. Knowing you won’t find it I’ll help you. God doesn’t. In fact God clearly states He finds it an abomination. Try as you might to twist it, its abundantly clear in Scripture. Old and New Testament alike. Now this is where you jump in with the shellfish argument…
So are we made in God’s image or not? Where does Jesus say anything about homosexuality in the Bible? You know cp444 those would be the words printed in the color red.
AHHH. A “red letter christian”. Now things are beginning to make sense. Wish I had the time today to shoot down that nonsense. Now there is a cult full of holes if there ever was one.
“AHHH. A “red letter christian”.”
There you go being judgmental again.
~~~~~
“Now things are beginning to make sense.”
Deflection
~~~~~
“Wish I had the time today to shoot down that nonsense.”
Translation – Jesus didn’t say anything about homosexuals or homosexuality so I will just say I don’t have the time.
~~~~~
“Now there is a cult full of holes if there ever was one. ”
Translation – But I will call it into question so I won’t lose face among the other “ultra right wing conservative ultra fundamentalist Christians that read my thought provoking and insightful posts”.
I think he’s saying that some are more made in God’s image than others.
Being gay is no more of a choice than being left-handed is, or being black or female or tall. Some people are born one way, some another. If you could pay attention to reality instead of that many-times-edited book you might learn something once in a while.
obviously the church LOVES how naughty it feels to BE ONE
Aren’t the laws of our country based on civil and not religious laws?
No, they are based on the Ten Commandments.
Common misconception.
Our laws are based on English Common law.
English Common law can be traced back to the Code of Hammurabi.
The Code of Hammurabi is a well-preserved Babylonian law code, dating back to about 1772 BC.
“Common misconception.”
That’s much too mild and polite, if you understand where it is coming from. .
It is false tenant of faith of some semi-convert, radical, extremist “christian” , groups that they want to first take over American,
by controlling the seven power bases that they have identified as
critical to forming opinions in American society…
examining-the-seven-mountains-movement See: http://futuristguy.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/examining-the-seven-mountains-movement/
Tying it All Together
I began to see more parallels in the language of imperialistic social activism and supernatural warriorism when I looked more specifically at overlaps between Christian Reconstructionism and various branches in Charismatic supernaturalism (e.g., Generals/Strategic Prayer Network, the Sentinel Group and their Transformation video series, New Apostolic Reformation). With the Old Testament emphasis in these movements, it’s not surprising that there is a lot of warfare metaphorage, with references to concepts of armies, soldiers, generals, taking the land, strategic fronts, gameplans, infiltrating, invading, prophetic vindication of the victors, etc. (Many of these terms come directly from the words of Seven Mountain advocates, as heard in the videos on Matt’s blog.)
It all makes sense as these merge together: If you emphasize traditional military structure, you must have an absolute hierarchy in place (i.e., apostles, prophets, and other officials) to carry out such operations – though supposedly through war in the heavenlies – and thereby bring transformation to the domains of society.
Yes, it does make sense – but only within a closed system that has many dodgy theological premises. And so, I am still left with some very strong questions and concerns about the Seven Mountains movement, especially as to how it could taint, sidetrack, or quench the relational and social involvement efforts of those in the missional movement.
Then, after becoming the bosses, they plan to use the US Military to conquer the world , in their attempt to hasten its end
…. in one way or the other.
See:
“Those who literally desire to ‘conquer the world for Christ” [the gospel is supposed to be not about seeking political power but knowing people will change via the Holy Spirit and regenerated hearts. This is where they have gone off the rails!
As I have written before on this blog both right and left are a lie, and in examining the right, it is interesting to see how these leaders have led people to reject all compassion, with more defenses of the powerful and global elites, with the praise of mammon over everything else. ”
http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/01/politics-and-christian-deceit-of-this.html
They are not anti-Christian sites.
Look at them, and decide for yourself.
NOW, my point is not to say any American does not have the right to be a traitor to the principles of the US Constitution, or the religious freedom to be heretics.
Instead I must hold my nose and say, as an good American,
I must defend their right to spread their sedition and heresy.
But I trust in right to prevail, if good people stay informed and
do the right things.
So it goes.
BUT I must ask decent conservative Christians to inform themselves and decide if they want to actively support, wittingly or otherwise, the the agenda of these influential, but semi-covert, heretics, spiritual warriors, latter day self-appointed “Apostles” and new age “christian’ Prophets ?
You can know them easily enough :
American Theocracy ; Who is Trying to Turn America Into a Theocracy?
“I want you to just let the wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good… Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want pluralism.” Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue
http://www.brucegourley.com/christiannation/theocracy.htm
Today’s optional reading is from Matthew Ch. 7
Verses 15 thur 23.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7&version=NIV
Which side are you on ?
No they aren’t. Not one law we have comes from the ten commandments, unless you count laws common to all cultures, like don’t kill and don’t steal.
Trent McGlasson, if they were based on the ten commandments… “thou shall have no other God..” then stop praying to saints and the supposedly-virgin Mary.
Besides, one of the ten has language directed to gays… “Thou shalt not covet they neighbors wife, nor his ox, nor his ASS”!
How is life in Iran?
That is completely false.
I think you’ve got it in reverse.
Which side are you on ?
Be careful.
In a more “christian” America, whose going be running the show ?
The Mormon’s Avenging Angels might track you down for making comments
like that .
You do know they already have a big database that knows all about you and your
whole family line.
It is a fact that can’t be denied.
The Mormons . Genealogy and the Mormon Archives | PBS www.pbs.org/mormons/etc/genealogy.html
This is ugly. No organization purporting to be Christian should be ‘teaching’ intolerance.
The Catholics started a voluntary program for people who requested it. Mind your own business.
They should be helping their homosexual followers accept and love who they are, not treat them like God somehow screwed up.
I thought the pope was God. I gotta get a copy of the catholic bible and check this out.
No, the Pope is just an old Nazi youth member who they trained to say homosexual instead of jew.
What a bigoted, pathetic and deliberately ignorant remark about the Pope. This group is voluntary in nature and available to those who wish to live their faith in a faithful manner. The stupid and hateful remarks that articles like this summon forth from anti-Catholic bigots is predictable but always sad to see.
I’m sorry, but any instituion that preaches intolerance as part of their rule book and doesn’t disband those within their organization who are guilty of child molestation are all going to hell by measure of their own rules as far as I’m concerned.
Yeah, don’t you know that the catholic church can freely run the personal lives of its parishoners. Tell them who to marry, that they can’t take birth control, that the only true Bible is the edited catholic version,women are inferior, and that priests, bishops, cardinals, and the pope are holy men no matter what their transgressions may be. And don’t forget to fill the collection plate for God’s work, like paying off the victims of some of these holy men. The catholic cult, whoops I mean religion, is an entity in and of itself and we inferior, hell bound non catholics should agree with them, or mind our own business.
Nobody is forced to go to Church on Sunday, certainly not by priests or bishops. If your parents were forceful in your Christian upbringing, I’m sorry, but it has nothing to do with Catholicism. Christianity has been a light of freedom an truth throughout the centuries, it allowed for science to blossom. Just look at the non-Christian world and see the sharp difference.
Give me a break. The pope believed Galileo was right when he said the Sun was the center of the galaxy, they were in fact friends, but the pope publically condemned Galileo because it went against the catholic beliefs at the time. The catholic church branded Mary Magdalene as a whore and prostitute for cenruries even though she was a disciple of Christ and they knew it, because women had no place in the catholic religion. Get off your high horse. Catholic history speaks for itself, and it’s not flattering, and has little to do with real, honest christianity.
*Has little to do with REALITY, you mean.
exactly!
Yes, just like abortion is voluntary, If gays want to marry is voluntary. Go tell the church to mind its business when it come to these things.
The primary victims of abortion do not volunteer for their own deaths. They are destroyed due to the mostly selfish wishes of those who have control over their lives.
Instead of helping the poor, hungry etc, the chuch has lost its focus. Years ago, the church forced left handed children to use their right hands….same concept. Malone is a fraud
This bishop started a program that every legitimate medical and psychiatric society in the U.S. and Canada has called dangerous to patients. Most Catholics in the U.S. support civil equality for gay and lesbian people. The Catholic bishops, on the other hand, would deny gays and lesbians any right they can even if those gays and lesbians are celibate.
Mind your own business, Christofascist.
You are confusing, maybe deliberately, this program with attempts to change sexual orientation. Courage is there to help homosexuals live chastely and not to change their orientation. As for the fascism mantra, you might try telling that to those posting comments here who seek to meddle in internal matters of the Catholic Church. The hatred spewing forth here is disgusting and ugly even if sadly predictable.
Maybe you don’t know the meaning of the word chaste. Non-participation is an attempt to change sexuality by making it non-existant. It certainly isn’t acceptance.
chaste
Show IPA
adjective, chast·er, chast·est.
1. refraining from sexual intercourse that is regarded as contrary to morality or religion; virtuous.
2. virgin.
3. not engaging in sexual relations; celibate.
4. free from obscenity; decent: chaste conversation.
5. undefiled or stainless: chaste, white snow.
As long as the program only helps those who choose to live chastely. I am sure that there are gay people who desire that as part of their religion as there are straight people.
Yes, there are a lot of anti-Catholic and anti-religion attitudes here. It is unfortunate and I wish that everyone had an open mind, but as a gay man, I have heard horrible things about me from Catholics and people of of other religions. I know not all Catholics and all religious people think the same way, though.
And, just like all Catholics are the same, not all gay people are as closed-minded about Catholics and people of other religions as you might read here.
Those who once drank kool-aid in South America were also voluntary. Truth is, when a message of intolerance in this country exists on a wide spread basis like this one, it’s absolutely not an acceptable part of the community. Legally, they are allowed to do what they want, but socially we should never accept exclusion as an acceptable way of dealing with adversity.
I’d follow Darwinism, long before I’d follow Catholicism. For centuries they as an organization have taught that either you’re with them or against them. And if you’re not one of them, you go to hell. You can commit sins, but show up for confession once a week, say 10 hail Mary’s and everything is good to go.
Exactly!—And that gives you another week to do what you did the week before ,before confessing again!
“Exactly!—And that gives you another week to do what you did the week before ,before confessing again!”
It is just like the conservatives believing that you can balance the budget with tax cuts, in that way isn’t it ?
Does that explain why Bishop Malone is out in front of all the conservative political issues, now, too ?
Please do bother to look up the actual teachings of the Church before you post sweeping generalizations about them. In fact, since Catholicisms still teaches Faith and WORKS are necessary for salvation (unlike the vast majority of protestants) this kind of empty hypocritical approach has always been condemned. Penance for your sins plays a major role in confession, and if you don’t do it in this life, you will in Purgatory before you go to Heaven.
The belief that non-Christians go to Hell is again a protestant idea, here let me quote the Vatican II council: “Those also can attain to salvation who through no
fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely
seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known
to them through the dictates of conscience.”
”
I’d follow Darwinism ” … No, it follows your health and behavior … no matter what you believe.
don’t comment about Christianity; a subject of which you know very little
“don’t comment about Christianity”
Does “christianity”…. which is actually the Catholic Bishop playing not only less than useless, but proven harmful, political PR games, in this case, supersede freedom of speech in your vision of … what … a more “christian” America ?
Personally, if I thought America should be a “christian” Nation,
I’d be worried about which “Church” were in charge.
Chances are , the odds are, it would be a different sect then yours running the show.
So no matter what brand of Christian you are, with a different sect running the show,
you’ll just be another infidel, non-believer, so just like the people you are now telling
not to speak up in defense of YOUR freedom, YOUR liberty and real American values
as they are spelled out in US Constitution .
i have not met many christians who know much about christianity.
unless, of course christ knew nothing about it… as most of todays christians know nothing about what christ taught
they do not teach intolerance for homosexuals; they teach the Bible which says the ‘act’ is wrong, not the person. most Christians I know welcome homosexuals with open arms, as they would anyone they thought/knew was committing a sin. there are other things considered sin in the Bible as well, and some of those people choose to abstain from the ‘act’. it is never the person.
Assuming someone sins in a particular way isn’t welcoming him with open arms; it’s forcing him to wear a scarlet letter if he acknowledges an inborn trait. The Church does this with it’s “Love the Sinner; Hate the Sin” slogan and offers only a lifetime of silence as an alternative to persecution. The pope did this as Prefect for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith (the rebranded Roman Inquisition). The USCCB did this in the letter “Always our children.”
Ok, I’m not exactly a religious person. This is by choice, as I was raised Christian. From what I remember, Jesus said in the book of Mark ” Harken unto me, every one of you, and understand. There is nothing from without a man that entering into him can defile him.”
EVERY ONE OF YOU… NOTHING FROM WITHOUT… It seems to me that the person your religion is based on was VERY clear about this matter.
If only your viewpoint was shared by everyone. I agree, it is very disturbing. There is a lot of medical evidence that suggests these groups can actually cause psychological trauma to the people that participate. Luckily we have real support groups, in the area, that help people cope with something that cannot change, and teach them that being gay or bi-sexual is only a part of who you are, not what defines you. And most of all, to not be ashamed. Funny how the catholic church is closing down their church buildings left and right, yet somehow think a ministry that teaches intolerance and self denial is a good investment.
The Mayan say it is the end of the long count calendar period called The Age of Kings, too.
Wow the group started in 1980 and already has 1500 on it’s electronic mailing list. Not bad for only a short period of time like 22 years.
even better since it was started 32 years ago……
Because the church only sanctions traditional marriage as described in the bible.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Dsy-Gx5RPjk/TpRhiQC0v0I/AAAAAAAAClA/FOJhAfX00aA/s1600/biblical+marriage+traditional+christian+values+slavery+rape+polygamy+war+god+genesis+deuteronomy+hypocrisy+antigay+homophobia.jpg
Baahahhahahah! I just went to the website! Priceless! Where do I get the bumper sticker version??
Print out a few copies. Post them on bulletin boards or any where else you see flyers for NOM.
Will do!
AWESOME LINK!
This helps the Roman Church to stay within it’s own venue and teach it’s own values. Hopefully the dioceses will stay out of the forum of the state in this upcoming referendum in November and not spend a million dollars to change state politics. Jesus stayed out of state politics, he wouldn’t speak to Pilot or recognize his jurisdiction. When the Church intervenes in state politics it invites the state to interfere in Church politics, this is dangerous. Quid pro quo.
Dominus vobiscum: et cum spiritu tuo.
Who said: “Render onto Caesar….”
Conect the dots.
And maybe take away their tax exempt status? We could use the tax revenue.
This is the way Michelle Bachmann, [and husband] and so many others want others to believe that you can change people’s sexuality. This has been a battle for gay people for such a long time. For heavens sake “live and let live.”
“in accordance with the church’s teaching on homosexuality”I thought the churches teaching on homosexuality boiled down to “BURN SINNER!”…?
I am not practicing, but was raised Catholic. I believe the teaching is that it is not a sin to BE homosexual, but it is a sin to ACT on it. So they expect homosexual people to be celibate for life. Of course I think it (religion in general) is a bunch of baloney.
Thank goodness not all religions are “a bunch of baloney.” Try Spiritualism, HDB Spiritualist Church, 15 State St Bangor, Sunday AM service, 10:30 am. everyone is welcome
“There is NOTHING from without a man that entering into him can defile him” Yeshua bar Yoseph (Jesus, Son of Josheph) (Mark 7:15)
Notice he didn’t say”NOTHING but another mans penis.”
well the churches and gays have a lot in common.
care to elaborate?
Kind of like putting your hand in a wolfs mouth. Here’s an outfit that hates gays, and wants to help them. Yeah right.
“It’s a trap!!!” – Admiral Akbar
Wolves in wool suits ?
would not want to be the alter boy in that church!
The Church’s mission is to preach the truth, whether you choose to listen and follow is your own business, you have a free will. However, I find it the mission of the pro homosexual marriage mission is to put down all who don’t follow their cult.
Why should I have to follow their teachings? After all, all I will have to do is buy an indulgence from the church to be admitted into heaven.
Wow it’s nice to know anti- Catholicism is alive and well among the pro homosexual marriage crowd.
Around the time of Martin Luther in the 1400s-1500s not only would I have been able to buy my way into heaven but I could also have bought my ancestors’ way into heaven. That was one of the “church doctrines” that turned Martin Luther against the Catholic church. I really hope that is still possible since most of my ancestors were not Catholic. In fact, on my mother’s side some were actually…gasp… heathen Indians.
Awwwww do you feel picked on? Feel discriminated against for making a ‘choice’ in your ‘lifestyle’……..too bad so sad…….suck it up like the rest of us do when dealing with bigoted nit wits.
Baloney. Like any other organization that has any size to it, the church’s sole mission at this point in time is the retention of power and its circle of influence.
CULT??? Definition of cult: ‘a particular system of religious worship, especially withreference to its rites and ceremonies.’ News Flash: Homosexuality is not a system of religious worship…….but gee what IS a system of religious worship…..the CATHOLIC CHURCH (you know the one with all the pedophile priests…shhhhhhh)…..pfffffffft.
Homosexuality is a cult and yes there are many Catholic priest who are involved with the cult of homosexuality.
Even I didn’t have to look up ‘cult’ to know you were wrong in its usage.
You’d better find a new word there, Bucko
THE CULT OF HOMOSEXUALITYBy Dr. P. Bradley Carey
Gee, an author’s gotta use a dictionary?
“Just because it’s written doesn’t make it true”. I thought most people understood that….
I see…someone calls homosexuality a “cult” so its a cult.
Here a nice tidbit on Dr. P. Bradley Carey:
Now, here is something about “the Bishop”: He was charged in 1993 with rapeof a child, and got off with a light sentence after plea bargaining.Nevertheless, the circumstances described by the prosecution, based ondeposition of the child, are truly sickening.
Here is the text of the warrant used in his arrest after he had fled fromjustice:
IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF THE STATE OF OREGONFOR THE COUNTY OFDESCHUTESSTATE OF OREGON, Plaintiff.vs.PRESTON BRADLEY CAREY,Defendant.
http://www.christiandoctrine.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=876:homosexuality-a-death-cult&catid=188:sex-and-sexuality&Itemid=564
Last time I checked our countries laws were not taken from the Bible.
just like heterosexuality is a cult??
The “cult” some of the Priests were involved with was Pedophilia. Look it up, there is a huge difference.
“The Cult of Homosexuality”…I love that song by Living Coulor.. Vernon Reid did a killer guitar solo on that tune….Peace
Homosexuality is not a cult, it is possession of the
devil…Jehovah Witness and Mormons are a cult…
Why do people feel the need to label everyone and everything?
Another superstitious fool. It’s an inborn trait. Tell me, do you go to a faith healer when you’re sick or do you just trot out your asinine superstition to defame others?
a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
So I guess that would apply to heterosexuals as well……..so………….???
Just because the church says something doesn’t mean it is true
a. I am a heterosexual married male.
b. I support extending marriage rights to same sex couples.
c. I put down no one
d. I am not a member of a “cult”.
you better take another look at C and D. Especially C.
I did and I stand by my post.
The truth is that their policies increase abortion, or would if anyone paid any attention to them. Another truth is that Bishop Malone is in to politics instead of preaching.
A cult? You’re the freaks who worship death. Your church’s are filled with the pornography of death, including dead saints holding their own skin and eyes. You have chapels built of human skeletons. Your church has a long history of torturing, dismembering, and burning people who disagree with it.
Yet you are stupid enough to call any other group of people a cult. That’s dumbfounding.
Christianity does NOT teach the truth, it teaches a point of view. A great man once said, “You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.” Gravity, air, and water, these are truths. Religion, political affiliation, philosophy… these things are points of view.
Gravity is just a theory though…
The churches mission is to keep the masses deluded and ignorant, by jamming their version of the truth down peoples throats at gunpoint, and threatening people with everlasting pain and suffering if you make the sinful choice of thinking for yourself. This makes the herd or flock much easier to control.
I suppose these meetings could provide a way for people to find a new partner.
“Catholic church announces new gay singles group; a place for lonely gay men and women to meet and support each other.” ;)
Homosexuality is a choice. People can choose whether or not they act on sinful desires much like drug abuse, alcohol abuse, and gambling. Its not natural and its reckless to teach children that this is somehow normal and something to be embraced. especially when thousands have died from aids.
Homosexuality IS NOT A CHOICE. Are you gay? No you’re clearly NOT so therefore you know of nothing of which you speak. Was your wife/you a virgin when you married? No? Well THAT’s a problem. Been divorced? Well THAT’s a problem. Eat shellfish? Well THAT’s a problem. Have a slave? Well THAT’s ok. Rape someone? Well THAT’s ok just pay the father 50 silver pieces and no problem (oh and you have to marry her.) Want to sell your daughter into slavery? Well THAT’s not a problem. REALLY?? Pfffffft.
Well I do not think it is a choice I am not sexually attracted to men . Some has o be born different or something in thier upbringing . Not a choice.
It most certainly is a CHOICE. There are thousands of testimonies of people who “used to be gay”. that have gone on to have happily productive lives and marriages with the opposite sex. We as humans have an endless capacity to deceive ourselves in the pursuit of desires. The good news is God will forgive us of all our sins.
Thousands? Happy? Can you cite these references?
Generally the “choice” is whether on not to accept one’s sexuality and live life accordingly.
Its true. Would you beleive the sources?
If they are from reputable sources, sure. If they are from sources known to manipulate and fabricate, then probably not.
Cite your references- ‘testimonials’ are NOT scientific so what do you have to offer for scientific evidence from real reputable sources (you know like a university or institute that doesn’t have an open affiliation with any religion what so ever)….and people who ‘used to be gay’ and are now with someone of the opposite sex are called BISEXUAL- and they date males or females (hence the prefix BI) that being said when did ‘god’ appoint you has her spokesperson? Pffffffffffft.
More heterosexuals have died from AIDS then homosexuals, in fact the largest group of people contracting and dying from AIDS in the world is married women.
On edit added in the world
Try only the US .
Homosexuality is not a choice. Nor is it something to be ashamed of or compared to substance abuse. God made some people gay just as some people were given brown or blue eyes. Wouldn’t it be right to teach children tolerance for all peoples, regardless of their sexual orientation, color, religion, disabilities? Thousands have contracted aids from heterosexual sex and have died.
@pbmann-again I say, get your facts straight….no pun intended…. MSM-men who have sex with men
Since the beginning of the US epidemic, MSM have consistently
represented the largest percentage of persons diagnosed with AIDS and
persons with an AIDS diagnosis who have died. http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/index.htm
Odd then that the Catholic Church would have this ministry, huh? Why would someone choose to be attracted to the same sex, just to enter into a ministry of celibacy and denial?
The only real choice is if we live in denial and isolation or embrace life and find companionship. What harm do you come to from our love?
Please do not encourage teaching children that HIV and AIDS are only contracted through intimate relations with a member of the same sex……. that myth was laid to rest over 25 years ago.
There will be a prayer meeting following each class asking that w
I’d like to start a support group for people who believe in God.
Are you insinuating that gays don’t believe? I think you’ll find the ratio is about the same.
Heck! What is this organization (among similar ones) all about, then?
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
Mahatma Gandhi
Excellent.
They already have one, it’s called church.
The onslaught of Catholic bashing is now in full progress.
Where????
I know, and it’s so darned undeserved. Just because they meddle in peoples personal lives, and now their bedrooms. Poor catholics.
Well, that’s just great!
Where are they going to get priests from now?
The support group.
Bible says strike down all who is homo, gay, or whom lives the gay life. justify that !! read the the Book!!
It also says we shouldn’t eat shellfish, etc….do you follow all the rules and laws found in the Bible?
doesnt take a bible to know that homosexuals are sexual deviates
Well FamindaleRes surely you must follow all the rules and laws of the Bible then?
He can’t read…..
actually I dont and if you read my statement i think I made it clear that its not a bibical stance. males were created to copulate with females. its the natural order of things. males and females having deviate sexual relations with other males and females is a deviation from the natural order of life.
Natural order of life… So you are saying your anti-gay stance comes not from God but Mother Nature?
Nothing wrong with being gay, and absolutely nothing wrong with living your life in truth and honesty.
Excellent point. I think that is where the church butts heads with everyone. Truth and honesty mean little to the church…
years ago scribes copied the Bible word for word to make copies (prior to copy machines & computers). If they left a couple of dots off a letter, the entire meaning was changed. Then the Bible was translated. The translations were not always accurate. Long story short, you can’t believe everything you read in the Bible literally. Also, the Bible says different things in different parts of the Bible. Jesus said “you will do the things I do and more. ” He was the greatest healer and medium who ever lived and was referring to people who heal others by the laying on of hands and people who speak with the so called dead. Yet there are other parts in the Bible that state people shouldn’t go to mediums.
Pfffffffft.
The bible says far more in support of slavery than it says against homosexuality. Read the book, indeeed.
“Strike Down”?? Sounds like the Bible advocates violence, not very christian is it?
Yah, because this lifestyle has worked out well for the priests, huh? Seriously, leave homosexuals alone and stop trying to ‘save’ them…..
So when is the Catholic church going to deal with it’s issues of pedophilia. Homosexuality, bisexuality and transgenderism are not choices. There is medical evidence the proves the existence of Homosexuality from birth. The Catholic church excommunicated Galileo from the church because he was able to prove that the earth wasn’t the center of the universe. I was brought up to believe that the Catholic church stood for charity to all people; now I am seeing that just like with the Protestant church you’re only a believer if you’re straight white and follow the rules of the hierarchy to the letter and aren’t a deviant than you’re accepted into the fold. It’s funny how sins like murder, rape, greed, avorice, sloth, lust, gluttony, pride and other sins like these that are overly perpetuated are forgiven. When someone is HOMOSEXUAL then we must dig out the pitchforks. In Leviticus and Deuteronomy it says we’re prohibited to eat pork. Hmm, It’s funny that no one is scorned for eating sausage on a pizza or pepperoni or pork chops. Someone is homosexual, bisexual or transgenedered and we have to damn them and they have to forsake who they truly are just so that others are not uncomfortable.
You said the sins of murder , rape , greed , etc. etc. etc. are forgiven. So is the ACT of homosexuality if you ask for it and wish to atone for it.
By asking for forgiveness for it, you have to admit it’s wrong.
I guess all Catholic priests ought to be celibate since…
AD 1074-Pope Gregory VII said anyone to be ordained must first
pledge celibacy: ‘priests [must] first escape from the clutches of their
wives.’
AD 1095-Pope Urban II had priests’ wives sold into slavery, children were abandoned.
Pretty scary stuff!
Sounds like some people are asking for this ministry.
How dare they!?!
That’s the ultimate sin in the eyes of the gay marriage advocates. It threatens the template that homosexuals are so much happier and more well adjusted than run of the mill, breeders.
Ah Bobby where did you get that idea?
Personally I have no issue with the Catholic Church (or any religious group) doing outreach. It is no different than a single heterosexual that is attempting to stay celibate and a virgin for marriage.
Change one word twice and the goals can apply to anyone.
The five goals for Courage participants are to:
• Live chaste lives in accordance with the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching on “promiscuity”.
• Dedicate their lives to Christ through service to others, spiritual reading, prayer, meditation, individual spiritual direction, frequent attendance at Mass and the frequent reception of the sacraments of Reconciliation and Holy Eucharist.
• Foster a spirit of fellowship in which all may share thoughts and experiences and so ensure that no one will have to face the problems of”promiscuity” alone.
• Be mindful of the truth that chaste friendships are not only possible but necessary in a chaste Christian life and in doing so provide encouragement to one another in forming and sustaining them.
• Live lives that may serve as good examples to others.
So, if gay marriage passes, then the “promiscuity” part is taken care, and both partners would be welcomed to participate fully in the mass?
I doubt it. The Catholic Church (nor any religious order) will not be required to marry anyone that goes against the teachings of the church.
Actually this is what is required of all single Catholics, heterosexual or homosexual. It may seem shocking but the Church is recognizing all as individuals and treating them all consistantly. Kind of the opposite of acting with prejudice. As a Catholic you are supposed to be living a chaste life until marriage.period…..
Agreed
Huh?
We are people, just like you. We are your coworkers, neighbors, acquaintences, and family members.
We are boring, exciting, rude, courteous, smart, dumb, delightful, shallow, and real.
Sure some of us might have a chip on our shoulder about being gay, but don’t judge all of us for the personalities of the least of us. I sure try not to judge all Christians by the behavior of the group that pickets military funerals, after all.
Homosexuals get married all the time they probably always have look at Carlson for an example. A front to fit in for political reasons . Even new a female(lesbian) teacher who Married a gay man . It was not socially acceptable In some professions to be gay. We have come a long way. Still have a long ways to go.
Just a scam to get is in the door, after which they will subtly start the conversion process.
At least they won’t make us take a personality test. Or maybe they will? They can borrow it from their buddies in NOM…
“The Cult of Homosexuality”…I love that song by Living Coulor.. Vernon Reid did a killer guitar solo on that tune….Peace
actually,l the name of this same-sex-attraction group set up by the catholics is really called “dating club for priests” what a load of malarky!!!
I’m starting my own organization called ‘All Families!’and our focus will be to pray the stupid away….starting with these Catholic leaders!
Plan on that being a full time job….
I am confused– this is the Catholic group for masochists?
Because if sexual orientation is a choice, as many here have claimed, why would someone choose to have same sex attraction in order to live a life of celibate conflict and denial?
OR, is this the Catholic acknowlegement that our sexual orientation IS NOT a choice, and this is their idea of acceptance?
Either the Catholic church is perverted, or malevolent.
This is abusive.
I want to know where the new Bible is? Where Adam & Eve were fiction. Now there is Adam & Steve ……. Who will b writing this new Bible? Gov. Lepage?
$10 says this guy is trying to hide something…
Sent the pedophile priest there!
God would not condone this and those that do will end up in hell!
Judging others… how very Christian of you
This is why I no longer support organized religion.
Kinda sounds like the wolf taking care of the henhouse.
What does any of this have to do with Christianity? It’s just the Catholic cult brainwashing people into thinking they actually can “cure” homosexuality. That is such a crock.
Mark my words, this is nothing more than the beginning of the Catholic Church’s tactics to battle the marriage equality referendum. Look for the Bishop to pay for a 30 second commercial sometime in late October that will drag out all the “ex-gays” that this program has “helped.”
Great…another “Pray the Gay Away” club…Maybe Michelle Bachmann’s hubby will finally be able to admit his homosexuality and crawl out of the closet.
I grew up with the belief that the Catholic Church treated all people with equal focus. It now appears they are treating gay people as a special interest group apart from the rest of the flock. Do gay people really want that? I rather doubt it. I had no idea the Church was so out of step.
The Catholic Church does not hate homosexuals. Those of you voicing your “knowledge” of the Catholic faith and her teachings obviously are not Catholic. Catholics do not damn other faiths, including Muslims. In order to understand the very basics of the Catholic faith one only needs to read the Bible – any Bible. Even the one guilty of the most heinous crime can enter heaven if he so desires, his sorrow comes from his heart and out of love and desire for God. It is easy to categorize all priests as predators of children but in reality those that commit abuse are about 1% of all abuse that is committed by clergy of all faiths. The priests are easy prey because of the number of Catholics versus other faiths. This in no way implies that those that are guilty of abuse shouldn’t be prosecuted as any other criminal. Believe it or not folks there are homosexuals out there that love God more than their sexuality and want to live chaste lives. It is a gift and if this new ministry can connect them with others who wish to live their lives in harmony with God let them do so without spewing such hate. Not everyone has ulterior motives and to imply that this ministry is just an eharmony.com for gays is truly sad.
Mostly good points. I don’t think that the majority of people think the majority of priests are pedophiles, and the anger has nothing to do with the Catholics being a bigger target than other faiths. People are angry at the Institution of Catholicism for they way they hid and protected the offending priests.
The Catholic Church has a long history of being intolerant, so you will have to forgive those of us who are skeptical about the new found acceptance of gays. The Catholic Church has lost the public trust, while many find that sad, it is the reality. It is that lost trust that is in evidence here on this board. It seems like there is a hidden agenda (Pray away the gay, conversion, etc) because people do not trust this church.
The only statement you made i take exception with is, “Catholics do not damn other faiths, including Muslims,” … So the Crusades were what? A war of tea drinkers vs. coffee drinkers? Again the Catholic Church has a long history, and a lot of that history is taken up with hate and intolerance, most of which having little to do with the faith and more to do with politics and trying to rule over everyone.
Of course there were wars; there are wars today and there will be wars tomorrow unfortunately. However; one must remember there are always zealots and radicals that stoke the fires and instill the hate that becomes war.
I again state Catholics do not damn other faiths. People have such a hard time understanding chastity and why a person would choose to live a chaste life. If they are happy and take comfort in joining a ministry that supports that journey who are we to judge? I am sure it is very personal and difficult decision for anyone including homosexuals to choose that path. People need to be supported not ridiculed for putting God first.
You may say the Catholic Church has a history of being intolerant but it isn’t intolerance; it is following what is taught in scripture and teaching that. I would argue that Martin Luther could have tried through diplomacy and conversation to help right the wrongs during that era of the Church instead of creating the schism that ripped it apart. Those schisms continue to this day in other denominations – if one member doesn’t agree with the current church they belong to they start another and then other…… The intolerance lies with those critical of the Catholic Church. She doesn’t sway from the teachings of Christ. People do, the Church stays true. There is a difference.
By becoming involved in what is going on in the political arena – someone has to stand up for the abuses against the respect and dignity of the human person and unfortunately it is taking place in the political arena. We are outraged when an animal is abused or a family is murdered by a spouse and other acts of violence against the human person and rightly so but what about the abuse and murder of babies in the womb? Where is the outage against that? We hide behind the viewpoint that it is a woman’s body and her choice. Pregnancy negates the fact that it is just her body and her life. Where is the outrage against elder abuse; it is a sad reality. If Catholics are the only ones who are going to stand up for the respect for ALL human life they will do it. It has EVERYTHING to do with the faith and not politics. It has nothing to do with trying to rule over everyone. God made the rules. He is in charge.
Jesus told you to stay out of politics, and live your life his way. You haven’t (by you I mean those who profess to live by his rules) so from the get go you haven’t lived “the way” The Crusades were a war against Muslims not only authorized by the Pope (who I would call a zealot and agree with you, but most Catholics would disagree in calling the Pope a zealot),but actively fought by the Pope. The Knights Templar answered only to the Pope. They had to heed no king or any other authority on this Earth save the Pope. The Pope ordered them to take the Holy Land and slaughter every Muslim man, woman, and child who stood in their way. So please do not tell me the Catholics have never damned other faiths. Any wacko can start a war, it takes a religion to start a Holy War.
As far as intolerance, I respectfully disagree with you. Intolerance is a mainstay of most religions. Catholics have been intolerant of free thought for centuries. Even when faced with irrefutable proof, they maintain their intolerance. My favorite example is Galileo. He was imprisoned for heresy because he dared to say the Sun not the Earth was the center of the universe. Jesus taught tolerance, religious institutions do not. When Christianity held power in Europe, and the Pope’s word held more power than any king, it was the worst time in world history. The era of Christian power, the utopia all Christians yearn for, was the darkest time for society in all recorded history. It is referred to as The Dark Ages. With Christian rule, not even God’s light could pierce the darkness.
Christian history is full of death, hate, and intolerance. You are not alone of course, many religions share in the hate and intolerance. You have allowed these Dark Men in the Holy See to twist your mind until now you have become the very thing you swore to Jesus you would destroy. Intolerant.
And Muslims aren’t full of death, hate and intolerance? Ask the victims of 9/11 if they believe that? Oh sorry – THEY ARE DEAD. My point is still the same – and for the record my mind isn’t twisted – I am not so close minded that I can’t see the violent history of the world – but that isn’t for the Catholic Church, other Christian denominations or Muslims to shoulder the blame alone. Who are you going to blame for all the bloodshed before Christianity was established by Jesus Christ, the Jews? It isn’t Christians who are rising up in our world today – it is the Muslims and who is inciting it? The zealots and radical factions of the Muslim faith.
Have a nice day.
So you defend the violence and hate of your church with the old, “They do it too!” argument? That’s pretty weak, specially considering I mentioned it before. Not your fault though, it is very difficult to defend actions when you know them to be wrong. There was a lot of violence prior to Christianity, and I never indicated I blamed all violence on Christianity. Most religions prior to Christianity accepted man’s violent nature and had God’s to represent that nature such as Mars the god of war and bringer of battle. Therefore they did not go against the teachings of their religions like Christians do. That is what is at issue here. Preaching one thing and doing another. Jesus taught peace, love, and tolerance. Man has taken those teachings and the popularity of those teachings and twisted it in order to justify hate and intolerance. Remember, we are not so far removed from the Catholic/Protestant wars in Ireland to prove my point. Christianity would do well to harken back to Jesus’ teachings of peace, love, and tolerance, and worry much less about who is sleeping with whom. Instead of searching the bible for a quote that your interpretation will justify being against someone, why not ask yourself, “Am I approaching this in a peaceful, loving, and tolerant way?” As it stands now, Christianity is falling far short of that mark. There is the popular question “what would Jesus do?” Looking down upon his “flock” now, all I can imagine is him shaking his head and saying “I am so disappointed in you, I taught you better.”
May the Force be with you, always.
Yes – PRAY AWAY THE GAY! That will DEFINITELY work!
There are reference to homosexuality in the old testiment, I can’t find where Jesus mentions it at all.
“Harken unto me every one of you and understand. There is nothing from without a man that by entering into him can defile him” Mark 7 14-15
I’d say he was very clear about it.
No, Not clear at all. You have got to be kidding me right? That is the best you can come up with? That is greatly open to interpretation, non of which saying gay is bad come to mind. I have read the whole thing, and I do not even come close to thinking that he was talking about homosexuality. I think we was talking about food? Drink? I am not really sure because it was not clear, however what is clear is that its a stretch to say it
was homosexuality.
Edit: I have read it again and I am now pretty sure he was talking about food, The beginning of Mark 7 they talk about eating with unclean hands, and basically was declaring all food clean? Again this is the best you can come up with? There is no way this verse was talking about Homosexuality. Its clearly food. You take one line and warp it, but when you read everything before it, its pretty clear Homosexuality is not even close to what he is talking about.
Mark 7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
Mark 7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
Mark 7:12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Mark 7:14 …Hearken unto me EVERY ONE OF YOU, and UNDERSTAND:”
Jesus is clearly speaking to EVERYONE. He himself has identified these words as IMPORTANT. He insists that people should make the attempt to understand them. They should not let their preconceptions get in the way of understanding the words just as they are phrased. Jesus is not throwing these words around with no thought. He expects people to MISunderstand unless they really make the effort to think about the words.
That is important, because he is saying words that contradict the traditions that people have come to incorrectly accept as the word of God. Most people would prefer to turn a blind eye to the facts rather than admit that their traditions are wrong — especially if those traditions are harmful to others. They would have to admit that they themselves have been spreading evil AGAINST the word of God, and it is so much easier to just ignore the words of Jesus.
“Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him:”
These words are widely interpreted as overturning the kosher laws. And they have. After all, eating involves something entering into a man from without. Therefore, the kosher laws, which said that a man was defiled by eating certain things, are set aside for Christians. Jesus says they are wrong, because they involve something entering a man from without.
Likewise, blood transfusions, medication, organ transplants, and artificial insemination are not sins and do not defile, because all of those involve something entering a man from without.
Likewise HOMOSEXUAL ACTS are not sins and do not defile, because all of those ALSO involve something entering a man from without.
I’m an atheist by the way.
Malone, Please resign, You are a disgrace to the church
Funny thing, I live in Ogunquit MAINE, and I see more catholic priests frolicking around in the gay bars. Things that make you say, hmmmm or is it hymnnnnn
So many of you are severely under educated and if you find the need to criticize someone’s beliefs then make sure you’ve done your research. Everyone has their cross to bear and we all have to deal with those in different ways. Jesus’ life here was not easy by any means what makes you think that yours should be a breeze. Those who are homosexual, that is their cross to bear, and if they choose to obstain and follow Christ’s teachings then more power to them. I am a firm believer if you love someone you should have the freedom to marry that person if you choose to, whether that person be of the same sex as you or opposite but if you choose to obstain and are seeking fellowship with that choice then that is what the Catholic church is setting in place right now. Many heterosexuals have chosen an chaste life and none of you seem to acknowledge that. It is something that pertains to individuals not a community of people. I am frustrated with the amount of people here just looking for another way to attack the Catholic church. Grow up. If you don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything at all.
The Church buildings themselves are usually really beautiful buildings… yea that’s all i got for good stuff to say.
The need for ministry should be with the abused victims who are still having to deal with the injustice done to them, the ministry should not be for the “same sex preference group” Remember, preferring the same sex caused this problem to begin with (priests and little boys)…so focus on the bible, not religion, not anything else, God is your answer, not with the vatican where man is law, try putting God’s word as law, we would all live in a better place…and I am not undereducated; I used to be catholic, but know the truth now, wish you would know it too, it’s never too late to educate your self (pick up the bible) you don’t have to take out a college loan for this.
The Catholic Church is trying to “cure” homosexuality?
That’s rich.
yessah
Hypocrisy at its finest. They need the money.
I dont think the catholic religion should feel they should try to help anybody, giving the issues they have inside their own religion. Maybe they should work on their own problems first . I have always felt that the catholic religion is a guilt ridden religion with the confession thing !
this practice is against the bible this stupid bishop needs to be told that. i will not attend a church with queers involved in it go ahead and be mad at me but they were never welcome before so why now
Wow, Jesus would be so proud.
HILARIOUS- but you’ll attend a church who has multiple pedophile priests and covers up for said sicko priests……….what does that say about you?? I’d rather be sitting with the ‘queers’ in church than the pedophiles anyday. Pffffffft.
So many of you are severely under educated and if you find the need to criticize someone’s beliefs then make sure you’ve done your research. Everyone has their cross to bear and we all have to deal with those in different ways. Jesus’ life here was not easy by any means what makes you think that yours should be a breeze. Those who are homosexual, that is their cross to bear, and if they choose to obstain and follow Christ’s teachings then more power to them. I am a firm believer if you love someone you should have the freedom to marry that person if you choose to, whether that person be of the same sex as you or opposite but if you choose to obstain and are seeking fellowship with that choice then that is what the Catholic church is setting in place right now. Many heterosexuals have chosen an chaste life and none of you seem to acknowledge that. It is something that pertains to individuals not a community of people. I am frustrated with the amount of people here just looking for another way to attack the Catholic church. Grow up. If you don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything at all
The Catholics should start a ministry for those who have been abused by the priests/pedophiles hiding within the church instead of enabling the situation….get real, no wonder they have lost alot of members. The Catholics is an organization run by man, why dont’ you try preaching and living from the bible (run by God), you may learn something!
Retired and on Social Security and give 15% of my income to the Catholic church. I have seen
the pedophile, alcoholic, adulterer, gambling priest and still supported my
church…Creating a support group for homosexual’s is the last straw…I’ll
continue with my faith but the Catholic church has seen the last penny from
me…I’ll not support the homosexual support group…Unbelievable…
Sounds very accepting of you. THIS is typical Christian behavior. PEACE as long as you do what we say LOVE as long as you do it how we say. ACCEPTANCE as long as you do exactly what you’re told.
Yes, don’t be mistaken, this is the Catholic’s war on Gays. It’s never been about marriage.
One hundred chapters with 1500 members “on thier electronic mailing list.” The organization started in 1980. That is 0.7142857 members per chapter per year. Me thinks that someone didn’t look at this from a marketing standpoint. Is this the new view of what is successful today?
Or are these numbers reported accurately in the first place?
I’m proud to be a member of the United Church of Christ- open and affirming. Thank you for your leadership and courage, Rev. Doty!
Yes, voluntary…..We will see how many already confused, and outcasted teens get dragged here by a “loving Catholic” in their family. This will only cement those feeling of shame…..we can only hope their isn’t a rise in teen’s hurting themselves after being “saved” by this “support group”. I am a christian lesbian and the church can support me by encouraging me to live a life full of joy and doing good upon others, and supporting my family, by teaching love and acceptance!
Kind of odd that the work “catholic” means all encompassing but that they need a special parish for gay people. What a horrid contradiction in openness and caring to make this distinction. Let the priests marry and stop the predation on innocents and the whole thing would be straightened out, including their loss of membership over the past 25 years. People are leaving the church for a reason.
that really IS fantastic… kindof about time the priests gave some sort of advice to people with whom they share commonalities… unlike the advice they usually give to the people who partake of the sacrament of marriage… something (almost all ) priests know nothing about.
Bishop Malone continues to amaze as both a close-minded person and also as a real hypocrite. The “Courage” group that he is starting in Maine to “supposedly” help gay and lesbian persons and their families has been widely recognized and criticized by the LGBT community as a thinly veiled disguise by the Catholic Church “monitor these folks in the hope that they will come to their senses and deny their homosexuality.” “Courage” is nothing more than another 12-step group designed to “help addicts and their families cope with some addiction.” Bishop Malone, homosexuals are NOT addicts, and they do not require the help of “support groups.” If you really wanted to help gay and lesbian folks in Maine, you would “ditch this Courage sham” and encourage your flock to support gay marriage — rather than to consistently fight against its acceptance.
Religion is acceptable when it encourages, but not when the people at the wheel us it as an excuse to discourage, hate, or manipulate identity. Shame on them for questioning the character of people who see things differently.
For those of you claiming homosexuality is a “lifestyle”, that is a false and ignorant statement. Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don’t choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.
http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/03/differential-brain-activation.pdf
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html
Gay, Straight Men’s Brain Responses Differ
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html
http://www.livescience.com/health/060224_gay_genes.html
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w27453600k586276/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2008/06/16/172/
There is overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Sexual orientation is generally a biological trait that is determined pre-natally, although there is no one certain thing that explains all of the cases. “Nurture” may have some effect, but for the most part it is biological.
And it should also be noted that:
“It is worth noting that many medical and scientific organizations do believe it is impossible to change a person’s sexual orientation and this is displayed in a statement by American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association.”
We need to get the word out to religious communities that anti-gay people are twisting God’s words to suit their agenda.
Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.
http://www.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm
http://www.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html
http://www.christchapel.com/reclaiming.html
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php
http://www.gaychristian101.com/
http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Resources&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2121
http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence.html
http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
http://www.goodhopemcc.org/spirituality/sexuality-and-bible/homosexuality-not-a-sin-not-a-sickness.html
This is the perfect example of how anti-gay people change the bible’s words for their anti-gay agenda.
Corinthians 6:9-11
Let us examine that very closely.
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
First of all, before we address this line, let us consider one thing. Supposedly taken from a 2000+ year old book, understand that the word “homosexual” was not coined until 1869 by Austrian-born novelist Karl-Maria Kertbeny. So how it happens to be included in a true reading of the particular biblical passage should make you ponder how accurate the interpretation actually is. So man changing the words of the Bible to conveniently spread their anti-gay agenda?
Absolutely.
There is no scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed. Reparative therapy has as much validity as pen1s enlarger pills. Notice how only religious groups claim to “change sexual orientation”. Sorry, but religion is not valid science. Also, most of those groups that claim to “suppress sexual orientation” merely means the gay person represses their sex, not change their sexual attractions. Most studies in fact have disproven reparative therapy, including Spitzers study which was debunked by scientists long ago.
More on Spitzers Reparative Therapy
Spitzer’s study was peer-reviewed, and these were the conclusions “Two years later, the paper was peer reviewed and published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior. The publication decision sparked controversy and one sponsoring member resigned in protest. The paper has been criticized for using non-random sampling and poor criteria for success.”
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_spit.htm
There are no ex-gays. There’s the Kinsey Scale. Anyone who isn’t a 5 or a 6, and mostly gay, has an out option. If you are mentally damaged in any way and a 3 or 4 on the scale, and somewhat attracted to the same sex, you can say, “My family/friends or religion doesn’t accept me. I don’t accept me. I want out. I’m not going to have sex with the same gender anymore.” If you are a 5 or 6 and really scarred, and say you are ex-gay, you are just faking it. And we all know it.
That’s your science lesson for today.
I have to keep reminding myself that I’m talking to a man who is completely blind.
Read the Bible, you’ll know enough of the will of God to know how He feels about homosexuality. You will also learn how much you personally are tearing down the Church that He loves and cherishes so much. FYI, The church is not a building, but Christians. You will answer to Him for what you’re doing. Thats a fact.