For the birds
Have you been enjoying the celebratory bird song of spring this year as much as I have? If so, I hope you will consider the birds this spring as you make your plans for lawn and garden care. When we declare war on lawn pests and weeds by using chemical fertilizers and pesticides we in effect declare war on ourselves. We put not only the birds into jeopardy, as we poison their food supply, we also put our own health in jeopardy as we contaminate our soils, air and water.
There are alternatives to our chemically supported green lawns. The resources available to assist us in transitioning to a full-spectrum-creature beneficial landscaping system are ample. MOFGA is a great starting point for accessing resources, at www.mofga.org.
If you happen to be involved with a business that promotes chemical landscaping, I hope that you will see this letter as an encouraging invitation to explore ways to expand your business in innovative, earth-supporting ways. My concern is for your health as well. The sprays are potentially harmful to everyone.
I envision a world where we all finally recognize the interconnectedness of our human and nonhuman communities and world where we gather together for collaborative problem-solving, generating creative solutions that benefit us all — solutions that address and support our personal and global health, our creative expression and financial solvency for everybody.
May we all cultivate seeds of peace in our gardens and hearts this spring. Evolve and resolve with love.
Happy spring.
Lelania Avila
Northeast Harbor
Compromise is possible
The battle lines are formed again on this upcoming referendum on same-sex marriage. Could we hope these battle lines would disappear if we give a heartfelt reflection on the two issues that seem to be central?
A reflection on compassion and consideration: Same-sex advocates are looking to their opponents for compassion and I believe the overall readiness to sanction civil unions and grant to these unions all the same privileges and benefits of traditional marriage is proof that compassion is abundant.
Traditional marriage advocates do not want to stand in the way of anyone’s happiness. They also are not standing in judgment of those of differing views but only request the consideration of their beliefs. The marriage title is the name of their belief. The belief that marriage is a union both civilly and sacramentally of one man and one woman. They want to stress the sacredness and inalterability of the marriage title.
Compassion and understanding is sought by the same-sex advocates and consideration of their beliefs and understanding is sought by the proponents of traditional marriage. Is there a compromise that would satisfy both sides? Is there a title that would appeal to the same-sex advocates other than marriage with all the same rights and privileges?
May everyone, regardless of their orientation, continue to receive compassion and may the ordained, deeply revered one-man-and-one-woman definition of marriage receive its due consideration.
Peter Pinette
Woodland
Charter school caution
The Maine Charter School Commission is visiting communities throughout the state to gather public sentiment regarding the creation of 10 new charter schools. According to the commission, they are interested in finding out where there are “gaps” in public education.
The charter school movement is based on the premise that our current school system is not meeting the needs of all our students. Many Maine students drop out of school. Many barely make it to graduation. Who are the students who are not successful in the public school system? Who are the students likely to drop out? Who are the students who can’t function within the current school structure?
As state government embarks on this new venture to establish 10 charter schools, I hope the commission will focus on who should be served rather than what these schools will offer. The establishment of charter schools in Maine offers us the chance to develop new school models that will meet the needs of students who have traditionally not been successful. If we create 10 new charter schools with no commitment to those students who are least likely to succeed in our current school structure, we are wasting an opportunity to make real progress in education reform.
I encourage the commission to support the creation of charter schools designed specifically to service students who have not previously experienced success.
Craig King
Topsham
Whose God, whose service?
Rev. Roger Tracy’s OpEd (BDN, March 28) states a clear vision of America, formerly and in the future, as a Christian nation. Yes, “the Declaration of Independence references God four times,” but how many times does it reference Christianity?
My parents were atheistic secular humanists. I’m an agnostic, I think. I don’t know what my daughter believes, but she doesn’t call herself a Christian. Muslims and Jews believe in one God. Buddhists, Hindus and pagans believe in other gods. What place is there for any of us in Rev. Tracy’s America? Should our children be forced to pledge allegiance to his God and read his Bible?
He disparages the opinion of the third president of the United States, Thomas Jefferson — “separation of church and state” — while quoting the second president, John Adams — “the general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence, were the general principles of Christianity.” Which view should prevail?
The words “under God” were added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954 during the height of anti-communist hysteria, as a rebuke to atheistic Russia. The Cold War is over, is it time to restore the Pledge to its original (godless) form?
The Rev. Tracy thinks “it is obvious that someone’s values will govern America.” It’s obvious to me that he wants his values to govern America. My values are different. Whose should govern? Is this a free country or what?
Henry Elliott
Blue Hill
Misquoting the Constitution
Roger Tracy’s OpEd, “When God was in school and state,” is interesting, but it has one glaring error. He misquoted the U.S. Constitution.
His quotation was, “Congress shall make no law establishing religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” In fact the First Amendment of our Constitution says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”
The difference is important as much of what his article is based on his misquote.
Stephen Porter
Searsmont
““A civil union is same-sex marriage under a different name,” said Michael Heath, executive director of the Maine Civic League.”
Sorry Peter… as long as folks like Heath are around, they will not compromise. Look at the outpouring of animosity and hostility by church leaders in IL when their civil union law was passed.
I personally don’t care what you call it. But with rhetoric like Heath and those leaders in IL spouting at everyone, there’s not only no need to compromise on this issue, doing so would only be kissing the cheek of those who wish us harm.
Mike Heath is 100% correct. There has been far too much compromising done already. We need to draw the line in the sand. Voting for marriage to be solely between one man and one woman works for me. If homosexuals want the same benefits of marriage couples work on changing the existing laws.
Change the law? That will be done this coming November.
And if it isn’t changed in November, it will be on the ballot in the next election…and the next….and the next….and the next…and so on until the good people of Maine are beaten into submission, or just stay home on election day.
If the SSM supporters cared a lick about the people of Maine, they would make a deal that if they lose this time, they will just drop the subject.
Already been tried – did not work.
Gay people and marriage equality supports ARE people of Maine.
It’s pretty sickening how you constantly pull this garbage about real Mainers and real Americans. You need to drop that!
As long as there is a sufficient number of people who recognize that discrimination is wrong, it will be brought to a vote. In view of the fact that most of the younger people have a more open mind and those with prejudice are getting old and will eventually pass on, equality for SSM will probably only need to be voted on once more. It will become more difficult as time goes by for those opposed to SSM to secure support for their misguided views.
We have already seen that happen with regard to women’s rights and racial equality. Although full equality in both cases is yet to be achieved, I think progress has been made in the last 50 years. It may take 50 years to recognize SSM as being fair and just, but it will happen because people realize it has no bearing on OSM.
The real discrimination is against moral Americans that believe in the holy sanctity of marriage between one man and one woman.
No, you can continue to believe that, and your life will remain unchanged.
Meanwhile, marriage will continue to be a civil contract with no mythology necessary.
In what way have you been discriminated against? You were allowed to marry. As a result, you and your spouse receive benefits under state and federal law as a married couple that those in civil unions are denied. You and your spouse get special income tax benefits that unmarried couples and single people do not. Married couples can inherit wealth and property amassed together without taxation, but gay couples do not have this advantage – even if they have been together for longer than you. Social Security survivor benefits accrue to married people, but gay people who have lived together do not benefit. Many work health insurance policies cover family members – but not for gay couples. If you and your wife divorce, you or she can still benefit from the Social Security of the other if you were married for ten years, but gay couples who split up cannot so benefit.
Marriage is and has always been a contract about property and wealth. It
is a means of protecting it; expanding it through marriage into other
families; and keeping it in the family. When you marry, even if you
marry in a church, you have to get a license from the state to do so – this is the
civil law part. Marriage provides protection for
children, and should include the children of gay people as well. So, if for example, a
couple divorces both parents still have financial responsibility for the welfare
of any children. Because it is considered
a public good, the government has decided to give marriage a special
status in law.
I would say that moral Americans believe that loving and committed
couples who would like to be married should be allowed to do so. Since there are a host of benefits to marriage under civil law, either all those who are in committed relationships should benefit from them – or none.
The law passed in 2009 and the question on the upcoming ballot did not and does not address the “holy sanctity of marriage” ….. that is left in the realm of individual religious institutions (ie churches), they and clergy representing them maintain their beliefs and traditions governing the “holy sanctity of marriage”. Civil marriage is not governed by religion.
EJ you worry too much about other people’s morality. I believe the bible cautions against being a nosy busy body. If you don’t like gay marriage, I suggest you don’t do it. That solves your problem.
No one is forcing you into a marriage that is not between a man and a woman. No one is telling you who you can and cannot love and marry. Your life will NOT be changed one iota if same-sex couples are granted marriage equality.
You have NO idea what discrimination is and your statement is absolutely ridiculous. It’s laughable, but then again it makes me sick to hear such nonsense. Go live your own life and allow the same for others.
A REAL American recognizes that they should not force other Americans to live by their religious creed. A REAL American doesn’t try to control the lives of others. A REAL American doesn’t force others to live by your religion.
You are bigoted and the one who is embracing discrimination.
Me and hundreds of others question your morals every time you post.
I suspect it will be settled long before by the SCOTUS.
Um, EJ we live in a democracy (ok,ok, representative republic) you don’t get to tell people what they can bring up for a vote.
Again, your ability to comprehend is lacking. I didn’t “tell” anyone anything.
You are suggesting that people really ought to stop doing things you don’t approve of. How is that very different from “telling”
Of course you didn’t …. you only implied that if you don’t succeed … drop it (if you really give a lick about others). Funny I thought there was saying: ” If first you do not succeed try, try, again.”
Not any more. Nowadays it’s “If at first you don’t get your way, make more noise, call the opposition bigots and haters, and beat them into submission any way you can.”
Whose beating you into submission? No one is impeding on your freedom to pursue your life according to your beliefs. You are free to live your life as you wish. You are the one suggesting that everyone who isn’t your kind of Christian should be beaten into submission because your way is the only “right” way.
big·ot [big-uht] noun:
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
bigot (ˈbɪɡət)
— n
a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race.
That definition fits many on both sides of the issue. However, I am one of the few that have offered a compromise that has been flatly rejected by just about everyone on the other side. At least I’ve tried to find a middle ground.
Your posts get more entertaining as you write. There is no compromise when one group of Americans is being denied something that others can obtain easily. Why should anyone have to compromise with you on whether or not they can marry the person that they love?
The definition does not fit both sides of the issue. No one on the other side is doing anything to keep you from freely practicing your religion and from making decisions in your life based on your religious beliefs. No one is telling you that you will burn in hell as you have told so many. No one is keeping you from following your path, keeping you from attending services, studying your Bible, etc. No one on the other side is trying to take away your American freedoms. YOU are the one doing all of those things.
People are rejecting you and your religion’s attempt to discriminate and to force everyone to live by your creed/religious beliefs. The day is coming when your religious dogma will no longer invade other people’s lives.
You have absolutely NO business meddling in other couple’s lives. You should get out of their bedroom, out of their family and stop blocking their American right to pursue life, liberty and happiness. If you are against homosexuality than practice your religion and don’t become a homosexual. If your religion tells you that same sex couples should not marry, then don’t marry someone of the same sex.
You become a bigot when you cannot accept that not everyone is Christian and not everyone is going to follow your creed. When you try to force other people to live by the rules that you dictate, you are a bigot.
Thank you for proving my point.
Hmmmmm ….. sounds like a page out of NOM’s released memos…. “The strategic goal of this project is to drive a wedge between gays and blacks—………. provoke the gay marriage base into responding by denouncing these spokesmen and women as bigots”.
Of course supporters have been called bigots and haters too ….. haters of traditional marriage, haters of God, the bible and religion in general, haters of morals, haters of family values …… and bigots for not petitioning to make marriage inclusive for polygamy, human and animal, adult and child, siblings etc. …..
But then it also describes most divided issues in the country.
When the opposition are bigots and haters it is just and right to call them out on it.
And when the supporters are bigots and haters???? And they are, especially on this topic.
Kind of like how the Pro-Life movement stopped their efforts when the law of the land was changed.
Yes, just look at New Hampshire ….. the law has been in place for 2 years. You would think that SSM opponents, if they cared about the people of New Hampshire would just dropped it.
What should happen is this: When an issue goes to referendum, regardless of the outcome, there should be a minimum five years before the same issue can be brought again.
That sounds fair. But fairness isn’t an attribute of many.
Ironic that you would make this statement.
“Fairness isn’t an attribute of many.”
Why is why gay marriage still isn’t legal in most states.
That’s exactly what they are doing.
Errrr……….Ahhhhhhhhhhh isn’t that exactly what is being done?
“If homosexuals want the same benefits of marriage couples work on changing the existing laws”
Yes, this is called civil marriage, and it is what we are fighting for. I will be voting for it in November!
Watching federal trend fall against folks like you repeatedly since 1996 makes me very happy.
You wish harm upon others yet wish for your choice of religion to be protected. The hypocrisy is miles deep.
Watching you lose is fun.
And we are indeed working on changing the existing laws.
“There has been far too much compromising done already. ” That is correct…… the laws of the country have gone from the death penalty or life imprisonment given during colonial times t0 imprisonment and or institutionalization with various t reatments such as shock therapy and aversion therapy and castration to decriminalizing sodomy for heterosexuals and then homosexuals to allowing gays and lesbians to live among the rest of the population.
I recognize that these compromises cause you great distress as they increasingly have shown society moving further and further from the penalties laid down in Leviticus and the letters authored by Paul (specifically Romans).
Existing law is changing ….. it is becoming inclusive.
“Works for me” so it must be moral. That is the developmental morality of a 3 year old.
“Traditional marriage advocates do not want to stand in the way of anyone’s happiness. ”
I’m sorry, but I don’t believe you. When civil unions are put up to a vote, the campaigns are identical to the ones we saw here in 2009 regarding marriage. The commercials imply gays are immoral predators and they seek to indoctrinate school children, etc. People make the same slippery slope arguments, asking what’s next, dog unions?
We’ve seen this in our history, separate is not equal. It inherently creates inequality.
Their minds are so clouded that they can’t even see that they ARE standing in the way of other people’s happiness AND security that comes with the legal contract of marriage.
I cannot for the life of me understand why these so-called Christians are so obsessed with what other people do in the privacy of their bedrooms. Makes me wonder if they might be suppressing something within themselves.
Harry Elliott, Stephen Porter: good letters.
LELANIA,
I want to respond, but Scottie is beaaming me up.
PETER,
Peace to all,but never support or understanding of the gay lifestyle.
HENERY,
If you haven’t noticed there is little of value left in America. The reason is the God who we have abandoned. The only God is the ChristianGod. He is the only one who has risen. All other gods are dead and buried.
STEPHEN,
Not as bad of a misquote as ” seperation of church and state “.
By definition, isn’t God Jewish?
Good question. Jesus Christ was for sure.
Considering that before the Jews decided on one God, all religions were multideists. A long time after they created God (about 1000 years) the Christians came along and changed him around a little, but essentially it was the same one. Then in the last 2000 or so years Christians have rewritten the bible so many times that even biblical scholars are having trouble keeping track of who did what to whom.
I am curious though about what the Christians did with God’s wife, since they do not mention her. Archaeological digs have found statues of her, and old Jewish texts describe her, but as far as I know there is no reference in any of the versions of the bible the many sects of Christians use.
I would have to conclude that God is Jewish. Jesus, who is fully God and fully human was Jewish during His time on earth. All of God’s ancient names like Yahweh and Jehovah do not have equivalent words in languages other than Hebrew. Also, every civilization that rose against the Jewish people was utterly totally destroyed.
Jesus was not “The Christ” when he was alive. He has never been identified as “The Christ by the Jewish religion.
Nope. He’s nondenominational. After all, He created us all.
Not me!
Sounds more like you’re creating the God you want to have. You know, just like you create the facts you want.
Your only God is the Christian God, but many others are worshiped in this country. REAL Americans realize that this country was founded on the freedom to live one’s life according to their own belief system. You are trying to take away other Americans’ right to follow their own religious path by insisting everyone follow your set of rules and beliefs.
Many, many people across this land are sick and tired of this mentality and of language like this which is null and void of any compassion and filled with the negative overtones of egotism.
Maybe you have abandoned God but maybe you are so blind that you can’t see that your words and attitudes are FAR from Godly.
“The only God is the Christian God. All other gods are dead and buried.”
Why are all other gods “dead and buried”? Because you said so? By those criteria, your God has been dead and buried since 1882.
Lelania Avila
My “lawn care” consists entirely of cutting the weeds to a length which doesn’t support rodents (including squirrels)
Peter Pinette
I voted in favor of same sex marriage last referendum. This fall I will vote against it. While I believe that everyone should be treated equally, I no longer believe that the State should have any part in any marriage. I am not married, so there is no hypocrisy here.
Craig King
I’m opposed to Charter schools. I already pay enough in property taxes, and this is just one more scheme to part property-owners from their money.
Henry Elliott
Amen.
Stephen Porter
Roger Tracy like many other self identified “Christians” believes that we should all go goose-stepping into his version of heaven together. Frankly I’d rather spend an eternity with a angry skunk.
The issue on the ballot will be for same sex people to have the same rights that heterosexuals now have. It is not a vote on the validity of marriage. If you vote no then you are voting to continue this discrimination against same sex couples. If you cannot vote yes in support of fairness to them, then perhaps you might consider refraining from voting on this issue rather than casting a vote to deny same sex couples their civil rights.
I am sorry, but there is no “traditional” marriage anymore. Traditional marriage was a way to pass on property, that being a daughter for a price. Marriage has continued to change over the thousands of years and will continue to evolve. By the looks of divorce rates and infidelity, I do not believe that offering the same civil marriage rights to homosexual couples will harm the so called religious “sanctity” of marriage.
Henry Elliot, the Declaration is not a legal document. It is strictly a historical document and independence was not official until the Treaty of Paris in 1783.
In addition, the Treaty of Tripoli, article 11, passed in Congress without dissent and signed by President John Adams in 1797 stated the following; “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion….”. BTW, unlike as so happens today, this treaty was read in full before Congress voted on it, so everyone knew what was in it before voting for it. As per the US Constitution, treaties issued by the US have the force of law, regardless of what anyone says.
Any one wishing to read the entire article 11 or the entire treaty can find it online.
Treaties by the US have the force of law?
My indigenous ancestors would laugh in your face. As would the French citizens of Louisiana, The Spanish citizens of Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona, and the Island people of Palau where we tested Nuclear weapons.
Your point is well made. Just as there are those who selectively read the Constitution, others selectively enforced the law and treaties. They also are selective about what American history should be taught in schools.
That however is a subject for another thread.
Peter Pinette – Nice idea. Unfortunately, there are many on both sides of the issue that will not accept any compromise.
Henry Elliot – Maybe it is time to make the Pledge godless once more. After all, that’s the direction America is heading. Warning, however, this country will not survive without God. So, be careful what you ask for.
Gee we agree. “This country will not survive with god” When did you convert to Atheism?
Thanks for catching that. I’ve been on the road all day and didn’t take the time to proofread my comment. Regardless, we both knew what I meant.
Absolutely… I knew you would get my humor!
When I read and also reread the quote it said “This country will not survive withOUT god”.
That’s because HHS caught the mistake, and I edited it.
There was a pastor recently arrested in England. He was spit upon by two homosexual men. His crime was preaching from the Bible against homosexuality. Don’t think for a moment that that won’t soon be coming here. They are well organized and know enough not to be doing that here……just yet. It would ruin their chances of ever getting SSM voted in. Feel free to compromise if you want, I’m not going to.
I googled “English Pastor attacked by homosexuals” and all I found were references to Pastors attacking homosexuals. Could you supply your source?
http://www.citizenlink.com/2012/03/23/march-23-uk-street-preacher-describes-court-battle/
And again what you fail to say about this case is:
1) He was a lay preacher not an ordained pastor or minister.
2) He was cleared of the charges this year.
You really need to learn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
The “lay preacher” was found not guilty of “hate crimes” but he was assaulted by two men that disagreed with him and was later intimidated by the two that assaulted and others.
It seems that the wrong people were arrested.
Well I have now read multiple British news accounts and not one mentions anything about anyone spitting at or on any other person. Did they spit on the “lay preacher”? I don’t know if they did or didn’t. And I don’t know what the law is in the U.K..
When I googled “pastor” and “homosexual” in a number of combinations, all I could come up with were many references to gays being attacked, verbally and physically, by various religious groups. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, but it appears to be extremely rare when gays attack someone.
What does the bad behavior of two people in another country have to do with our petition for civil marriage rights under Maine law? Nothing.
Larry, that was only what the “preacher” claimed happened. The site given by Cp44 is a propaganda arm of Focus on the Family, an aggressive right wing religious group. Apparently the “preacher” was obnoxious enough that the police had to get involved in questioning the “preacher” about his hate speech.
Focus on the Family is a right wing conservative christian propaganda site, Cp44. Find something unbiased.
I consider it more about protecting traditional marriage than anything else. The direction this country is going, if a compromise isn’t offered and accepted, then marriage, as we know and cherish it, will be nothing more than an agreement approved by the state. The truth is, however, that no matter what is offered, many on both sides, but most on the SSM side, won’t accept it. It’s all part of the homosexual agenda to infiltrate every aspect of society while pushing God, the Real God, and our beliefs out of existence.
It’s sad, but it’s gotten to the point in America where the God that led us to greatness has been demeaned, demoralized, and discarded by the majority of Americans. Of course, He saw it coming a long, long time ago. Imagine that.
Dear EJP Would you please give a link to this spitting incident? It seems my research skill are failing me.
thanks
You’re asking the wrong person. I didn’t bring up the spitting incident, cp444 did. And cp444 provided a link.
But cp444 only told half the story. He was a lay preacher and not a pastor or minister and he was cleared of the charges this year.
While everything you said is true I have to ask myself would God approve of SS civil unions. You and I both know the answer to that.
We got racial killings, a debt that’s piling up, loss of jobs, a culturally divided country, wealth gap that keeps widening, declining wages, corporations buying laws, wars, famine and you think God is losing sleep over gay marriage? Surely your God isn’t that petty.
Yes, we do have a lot of problems. Strange that just about every one that you listed have come into being and grown under Democratic rule. And you keep voting for those that are to blame.
Liar.
The cultural divide, the wealth gap, declining wages, and corporations buying laws can all be linked to actions and laws enacted by Democrats under a Democrat presidents.
Wrong. It’s people like you with your “real American” garbage rhetoric that are responsible for those things.
I am on the wrong side of the wealth gap, my wages increased under Bush, but have declined under Obama, I have no corporate ties at all, and my healthcare insurance is about to quadruple if Obama gets his way. I am a real American, and my rhetoric contains no garbage. That must be why it stirs you up so much.
I’m sure to people with minds corrupted by conservative religious screeds that is all quite true. Unfortunately, real history, real statistics, real economics and real people say differently.
That’s garbage.
Republicans have held the office of the president for 20 of the last 32 years. The only president to have run a balanced budget in that time was a Democrat. In that time Republican presidents invaded four different countries (Grenada, Panama, Iraq twice and Afghanistan) and attacked many more (Libya and Lebanon to name two).
The Republicans held control of the House from 1994 to 2006 and the Senate has gone back and forth between Democratic control and Republican control.
So much for your Democratic Rule.
Interesting. That President that had a balanced budget had a Republican controlled Congress that he fought tooth and nail before finally giving in because he was coming up for re-election.
Grenada and Panama? They were barely police actions. And Obama is still in Afghanistan and preparing to invade Iran. He just joined in on threats to invade Syria. But, he did take a back seat in Libya in order to let someone else take the blame if it failed.
Neither party has clean hands. But, when corruption, government intrusion, pay-offs, corporate dealings, and questionable endeavors are laid on the table, the Dems do have an upper hand.
If it was the Republican congress that was responsible for the balanced budget then why did Bush start deficit spending 6 months into his first term? And don’t blame 9/11, we started deficit spending in August, 2011. We had a balanced budget because Clinton increased the taxes on the top wage bracket from 36% back to 39%, that is what balanced the budget and Bush lowered it and we are still dealing with that mistake.
We invaded Grenada on the pretense that we were defending college students but it was more likely because Reagan wanted to get the country’s mind off of the death of 241 US Marines in Lebanon that should not have died (but Reagan wanted to look tough and have them billoted in a hotel) not a secure military installation or better yet on board ships. Ask the US soldiers and Granadian policemen (Granda did not have an army) that died what they think of the “Police Action”
We invaded Panama to arrest Noriega, a CIA stooge, because we no longer needed nor wanted his help and he was threatening to go public with his dealings. Again ask the US soldiers and Panamaian soldiers who died what they think of your “Police Action”.
Niether of those so-called police actions were necesary or necessarily legal (by treaties we have signed).
As for government corruption, the Reagan Administration was the most corrupt adminstration (with the most convicted administration officials) then any administration in history. The only reason more members of Reagan’s Administration was not in jail was George H. W. Bush pardoned a whole lot of them BEFORE charges were even filed.
Vice President Chaney had an energy task force that to this day we don’t know who was on it or what they decided and we were soon at war with Iraq. Coincidence?
Government Intrusion? Just ask the women of Pennsylvania and Virginia about government intrusion. Their Republican leaders what them to be violated with internal sonograms (against their permission), an act that if done by an individual would be defined as a sexual assault.
So tell me which party has the upper hand on corruption and government intrusion.
So, Democrats are godless devils and Republicans are all good christians worried about money’s corrupting influence on the souls of poor. LOL
Considering your god is not our civil law, and it cannot vote, its approval is meaningless.
NEWS FLASH!!! Gays and lesbians have been infiltrating every aspect of societies for centuries, from long before the Roman gladiators and their young trainees, to the modern US military. It is only now that societies throughout the world are coming to grips with reality and examining their prejudices.
At least you are a bit closer with an example this time. Still not happening and I doubt it will. But I know this, the hate and uncompromising ways of the anti-SSM groups will continue just like it did post 1967.
“you doubt it will” Well gee, thats good enough for me (sarcasm).
But I know this, if this passes in November the hate and uncompromising ways of the anti-SSM groups will continue.
Do we need to show you how many gays are being killed in the name of religion?
What is your definition of “recent”?
Here is why I ask…the only reference I could find in the UK media was a case involving a Dale McAlpine who was arrested “for saying homosexuality is a sin”. Source – http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/7668448/Christian-preacher-arrested-for-saying-homosexuality-is-a-sin.html and this occurred in May of 2010. Not exactly “recent”
But there was no reference to anyone “spitting” on anyone.
But here is the rest of the story which you always seem to either hide or not bother telling. The charges were dropped 7 days later. I know you knew this so why do you go around deceiving people? Source – http://www.christian.org.uk/resource/video/criminal-charges-dropped-against-street-preacher-dale-mcalpine/ (PLEASE NOTE: The source of this follow up article was The Christian Institute. Seems that you could learn a lesson from this honest, straight forward Christian group)
So why don’t you post the whole story cp444? Why do you like to use smoke and mirrors when you post cp444?
The “pastor” sounds like a typical soap box loony, raving and ranting in Speakers Corner in Hyde Park. From his own recounting he kept goading his audience on so he could accuse them of harassing them. Instead, his religious insults got him a visit to the police station to explain why he was harassing others. Typical stupid religious freak. They aren’t tolerated well in the UK. Unfortunately we do.
Well I will take our 1st Amendment rights every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
You’re right, of course. However, religious conservatives eagerly use the First Amendment rights granted to them by the Constitution to enact laws that deny others their First Amendment rights.
You really have to try to get arrested at Speakers Corner in Hyde Park and it takes a lot of work to succeed.
Europeans are less tolerant of those who spew hate than we are. They lost several million people in the last century as a result of a war based on hatred. A few million were killed here because of hate, but most of it happened in the 1700-1800s, and many people have forgotten.
What does the bad behavior of citizens in England have to do with our legitimate need for civil marriage here under Maine law?
I have news for you– people act like idiots in public all the time, regardless of what equality gays and lesbians do (or don’t) have.
Don’t think for a moment that denying us equal treatment under the law will result in unicorns, rainbows, and world peace– because there will still be offensive preachers and people who react poorly to them.
Feel free to be divisive and hateful if you want, I’m not going to.
You will lose.
I know this because you have no rational argument in defense of your views. You have “ick factor” and religion: neither one will stand for you in court.
There is no chance of compromise with same sex marriage. Christians believe it is out right wrong (before i get the you belong to a cult reply). Some liberal churches thing it is ok for a man to marry a man /or Women to Women. There is large divide in both sides of the same sex marriage issue. No one is going to agree to compromise on this issue no matter how flowery people try to make it sound. America is sliding to the left as the younger progressive college kid who have been taught evolution since kindergarten enter adult hood. The left doesn’t believe in a God who stands for morality, but God is still at work. Christian also know the signs of the times in the last days and are not surprised in how America is falling away. CNN last year said a survey of America that New England was the least Religious area in America. Same sex marriage is stronger from New York north. People can write what ever they want but the divide is wide with people on same sex marriage. Now let the vile venom fly.
I hear the left even believes that the earth is round!
Perhaps the children don’t believe in a god who stands for morality because his followers are the most immoral people they know. Just a thought.
More likely children don’t believe in a god who stands for morality because in school and the liberal media they are taught that “anything goes” and religion stands in opposition to hedonistic, self centered life choices.
Morals are independent of religion. There are plenty of amoral religious folks, plenty of moral athiests, and vice versa.
I’ve met plenty of the amoral religious folks. I’ve met few moral atheists. Most atheists seem to have rejected religion so they can rationalize their personal amoral behaviors.
That’s absolutely ridiculous.
Might it be that your religion has no evidence, and is used to harm US citizens?
I’m thinking that makes more sense.
Mr. Problem. The cognitive dissonance of conservative christians is the locus of rationalization not the atheists thoughtful rejection of man made gods.
If you need a book of mythology to tell you what is moral and right, then you’re a dangerous person. Decent folks know it without mythology.
I guess you believe decent folks are just born knowing what is moral and right.
So who decides who are “decent” and what is moral and right? I get it, self styled experts like you get to decide based on your personal prejudices.
That makes as much sense as the mythology you disdain. I forgot, you have created your own personal mythology.
It’s the same thing. You’re taught right and wrong and that can be done independent or dependent of religion. You have absolutely no point.
In part, instinct, yes.
The rest you can garner from your surroundings and your culture. No book of mythology is necessary.
Each person decides for himself or herself what is “moral and right”. Law only gets involved when victimization of others becomes an issue, or a scenario (like meth addiction) is likely to lead to the victimization of others.
See, 90% of your “sins” are perfectly legal… even our constitution stands in direct opposition to the “10 commandments”. What those who follow christianity view as “moral and right” varies from other folks, and even from the law.
“Each person decides for himself or herself what is “moral and right”.”
True moral relativism. Using your definition literally ANYTHING can be justified. Slavery, discrimination, women as property, pedophilia, environmental destruction, you name it.
Under your definition if a culture believes in female genital mutilation then it is ok. Or drug addiction. Or anything else you can rationalize.
Define “decent folks”
Mr. Problem, if the schools started teaching your kid morality, you’d be the first to screech, parental rights, religious freedom, government control and invasion of privacy. Get off that schtick. You don’t believe a word of it.
You just cannot understand that the schools are presently teaching morality. But since it is a version of morality that you support and believe in you have no problem with it.
OK, I’m listening. What morality are they teaching. To defend you position you will need to give concrete evidence, not just screeds from right wing christian propaganda. You need to list curriculum, texts, lesson plans, minutes from school board meetings and authorization from parents, superintends and school board members that show your child is being taught some sort of morality of which you disapprove.
I guess then in your mind teaching tolerance, environmentalism, multiculturalism, etc, have nothing to do with morality and a particular viewpoint.
The rest of your demands are nothing more than one of your usual attempts to kill debate. In this case demanding someone provide a level of detail that you yourself never do in supporting your own opinions.
Teaching tolerance is wrong so we should be teaching intolerance. Does this make any sense? We live in a multicultural society. Even Maine has populations that come from different countries, different races and different ethnicities. Do you suggest that we ignore this fact. Would you like the curriculum to teach your kid that the best people are all white, all English, all Christian and preferably Protestant? Have you ever looked at a school curriculum to see what they are actually teaching?
The word environment simply means surroundings. The study of the interrelationship of biology, chemistry, physics of a particular surrounding whether it is an ocean, or woods, or junkyard, or pond or prairie or toxic waste dump or mountain top is called ecology. It is a science not a moral persuasion. Do you object to children learning the science of the woods or waterways of Maine?
Exactly what morality do you think is being taught and exactly what are your objections? Where are you getting this nonsense?
I am not attempting to kill debate, and when I discuss something I bring statistics, quotes, definitions, and information to that discussion. You need to have solid evidence to back up your claims of immorality in schools or it is no longer a debate. It’s just you raving about something you know nothing about.
I’m not hearing any discussion from you Governmentistheproblem. Where is all this immorality and view point that I approve of?
Some of us actually work and are not paid to be here.
I’m retired
Most of what you bring are opinions and spin. LOL
I have not expressed an opinion or put a spin on either diversity or environmental studies. I expressed skepticism that children are being exposed to morally damaging lessons in tolerance and diversity or are being lied to in science classes. Expressing skepticism is not “spinning”. Until you give me more information i cannot make an informed judgment about your accusations that school damages your child.
http://education.byu.edu/diversity/curriculum.html
http://science.nature.nps.gov/im/units/netn/Education/Curriculum.pdf
Here are two sites you might want to visit to find out what is being taught in diversity and ecology curriculums across the nation.
The first is a diversity curriculum from Brigham Young University. A very conservative university.
The second is an ecology curriculum from National Park Service a government organization. Since you think government is the problem this would be a valuable site for you to see just how much problem the government is.
Oh, by the way tolerance is part of any diversity curriculum.
Your top link is not an actual curriculum so it is impossible to comment on it.
The bottom one is actually somewhat useful if used as part of a biology course.
The Brigham Young University gives you links to diversity curriculum. I posted this particular site because it gives the philosophy and reasons for developing a diversity curriculum which I thought you might find helpful. Have you asked to see to see the goals and objectives of the diversity and ecology curricula of your school? Have you discussed these goals and objectives with the curriculum committee?
Teaching tolerance is not in itself wrong. It is the way it is taught and used to justify any behavior and that we should not make any judgments about any other culture that is wrong. I got in a big fight one day with a teacher when I denounced a pedophile and stated I thought he should be put away for life at least. I was chastised for not being “tolerant” of his “issues”. Multiculturalism is usually taught in a context where all cultures are to be considered equal and students should not make any negative judgments about any other culture. So students are not to make any judgments about cultures that still consider women as property, or still practice slavery, etc.
You never will understand how multiculturalism is destructive of society as a whole or the problems it causes.
Environmentalism as it is being taught in schools now is not the neutral teaching of science and ecology that you portray. I have seen young children come home crying because their father hunts and they were told at school that hunting was “wrong”. Or using Al Gores movie “An Inconvenient Truth” and portraying it as fact without pointing out the inaccuracies or differing opinions.
I’m finding it hard to pictures a scenario where teachers would tell kids hunting is wrong since a high %of Mainers hunt or have businesses that depend on hunting. Equally difficult to picture are women teachers standing in front of a class telling children that women as chattel, female circumcision or slavery are simply cultural differences to be accepted. Have you attended a class where this has happened? Have you attended a class on climate change? Have you discussed or read the publications about climate change written by the people that actually record and interpret weather and climate data? Could you list the publications you read for climate change information.
A detailed description of your conversation with the teacher about the pedophile would be helpful.
I am trying to understand your point of view but you are giving me very little concrete information to go on other than hearsay evidence.
But Christ children are forgiven, that’s the difference!!!
“Christians” should not get married to same sex partners. There, problem solved. Now go find something else, that is none of your business, to rant about.
You are right about the Christians.
Good letter, Craig.
Charter schools might add to the educational scene in our state provided that they are implemented in a fashion that doesn’t harm the public school, as the vast majority of Maine youth will be educated in a public school setting.
Charter schools won’t be implemented in beneficial ways. Online schools and charter school management corporations are salivating in the wings ready to suck educational dollars out of Maine. Why do you think we have a paid commission pressuring districts to start charter schools. These commercial outfits will give us very poor educational results and sometimes fraud in exchange for taking millions of educational dollars out of Maine.
Wait till the money starts flowing out of Maine for online charter schools. It will look like the Penobscot River at flood stage.
In no way will charter schools be implementing so public education is unharmed. In the first place the salaries for the people on this well funded commission come directly out of public education funding and the people on this taxpayer funded committee almost certainly have direct ties to corporations that provide online charter schools or corporations that manage brick and mortar charter schools. Essentially we are paying a commission to take money out of public education and give it to corporations and not to Maine kids.
Mr. Pinette:
Such a compromize has been suggested and roundly denounced as the marriage defenders attempting to stigmatize the SSM supporters.
The only thing acecptable is calling their unions marriage
misplaced post
Why are we paying a Commission to visit school districts to recommend charter schools? If parents and teachers are so uninterested in applying for a charter school why did we pass the charter school bill? This paid commission can not be working for the good of education in Maine if they have to promote something that apparently few or no districts have applied for. If they aren’t representing education in Maine, who are they really representing?
>>>>>
Peter, Thank you fro a kind and well written message. I have struggled with the same question. I do understand now that, unless it is marriage, we will always be second class citizens. The NOM has denounced any recognition of our relationships. But, there should be more people like you.
NOM’s not alone in this. It’s not about marriage vs. civil unions, it’s about a dislike and fear of people these wingnuts don’t understand.
It’s really nothing more than that.
Speaking of birds:
Vindkraftverk: green energy blues
http://youtu.be/l-yo9CYv1mM
Peter Pinette: The compromise is easy…Have those who oppose same sex marriages worry about their own lives and stop butting their holier-than-thou noses in everyone else’s business.
Well said.
If you have any reverence for life, you would never apply pesticides and herbicides to your lawn because they not only kill weeds, they kill everything throughout the top 12″ of soil. If you want proof walk along the sidewalk after a heavy downpour when the worms have to come above ground to avoid drowning and look at the difference between lawns that are ” treated” and lawns that are natural. The difference is startling…you’ll see tons of worms on the sidewalk in front of natural lawns and you’ll see zero worms in front of the pesticide treated lawn…it’s because they’re all dead. So it’s not only birds that are affected, it’s all life that comes into contact with the poisons. The mindless acceptance of these chemicals by the general public is a marketing coup for the chemical manufacturers. They’ve convinced a good portion of the American population to poison their own environment without a second thought.
The more people become disconnected with nature the more they become disconnected with their common sense. It’s really bleak when people can be so easily convinced to act against their own interests through advertising….when will people start to think for themselves instead of letting themselves be programmed
The worst part is that municipalities hire their lawn maintenance out to landscaping firms who apply the pesticides with total abandon in all public places…so now you can not only get poisoned at home by treating your lawn, you can also get a dose by visiting any public place…but of course those little white warning signs make it all better. Some fast talking pesticide salesman has sure got the municipal officials acting against the publics interests
Saw this on another website:
A guy is visiting San Francisco, and walks into a small store in Chinatown.
He notices a small bronze statue of a rat.
He asks the owner “how much”, and the owner replies “$50 for the bronze rat, and $1000 for the story behind it.”
The guy says, “forget the story”, and buys the rat.
As he’s walking down the street he notices two live rats following him. As he continues to walk, more rats start following him.
He starts to get a little concerned, and heads for the waterfront. By the time he gets there there are thousands and thousands of rats following him.
He walks up to the end of the pier and throws the bronze rat into the bay, and the rats all follow and leap off of the pier and drown.
The guy rushes back to the store and walks in. The owner says, “Ah!, so your back for the story”.
The guys says, “No, I was wondering if you have any bronze liberals?”