Campaign slogans
Raising taxes for the rich sounds like a good campaign slogan. Why don’t we simply accept taxation at the level during the times of President Bill Clinton and President Ronald Reagan? Did the rich or the investment institutions suffer then? Of course not. Past knowledge has shown that tax cuts for the “rich” did not stimulate the economy, did not increase investments nor did it reduce national debt, but neither did increase in their taxes.
Tax cuts for the rich is only one of the very many factors aimed to improve our economy and reduce the national debt. Furthermore it is known that money in the pockets of the rest of the population ends up in circulation and thus stimulates the economy. In fact this group is also encouraged to invest, which may not be large by any single individual, but it does add up.
Perhaps a better topic would be “closing tax loopholes” that are being exploited by too many individuals.
Bohdan Slabyj
Brewer
Disrespectful law
The Lewiston Sun Journal on Dec. 13 wrote that the president of the Maine Town Clerks Association said, “we shall deal with the same-sex marriage law with the utmost respect.” This article had to do with whether town offices needed to make special efforts to be open other than regular times.
The question I have is why did the president of the town clerks association have to make a statement like this? There are good and bad laws and in my estimation this is the most wicked law Maine has ever passed. Why would a government official give a public plea for respect for a disrespectful law? Thousands of Mainers feel this law disrespects the commandments of the holy law in the Holy Bible.
Write Kim McLaughlin, president of the Maine Town Clerks Association, at kmcLaughlin@oobmaine.com. Tell her not to give a public statement that would seem to embrace this unholy law.
Elaine Graham
Farmington
Ways and means of killing
I see there are already many who immediately have jumped on the gun control bandwagon, and an equal number who have insisted on their right to bear or own guns, in the aftermath of the Newtown, Conn., tragedy.
Neither the presence nor lack of guns will stop tragedies such as this from happening. A determined individual who wishes to create mayhem, for whatever reason, can and will do what their mind tells them is the rational course of action.
We can take away all the privately owned guns and there are still ways and means of killing. What defense would a single teacher in a classroom of 8- or 9-year-olds have against a determined adult armed with a machete?
If memory serves, well over 100,000 people were slaughtered in Rwanda less than 20 years ago with mostly machetes.
What we need is a return of the availability of psychiatric care in a hospital setting with trained psychiatric care workers. In my lifetime I have witnessed the dismantlement of a system that wasn’t perfect, but at least gave people with mental illness a safe haven with the potential for a stabilization of their disease.
Families that are usually the first to recognize the onset of mental instability need the option of finding help for their loved ones.
Options that might have prevented the tragedies we have witnessed in Virginia, Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Maine, etc.
Thomas Bonner
Alexander
Gun control
We need more gun control and less dead children.
Jim Alciere
East Machias
Thanks from the greeters
So many businesses, organizations, schools and individuals have helped us in 2012 accomplish our mission of “expressing our thanks from the Maine troop greeters” to our service men and women who pass through our great city and airport.
You helped us reassure these overworked tired men and women that we still care and support them, until we finally bring them home. We’ll still be there, night and day, at Bangor International Airport in 2013 with the light on, with treats, phones, love and handshakes.
Charles Knowlen
Eddington
Meaning of Christmas
It is apparent that Christmas is more of a “Happy Holiday” to too many caught up in the politically correct rhetoric, yet people are willing to have the time off from work and school.
We celebrate the Christmas season because of the baby Jesus, who came to Earth to die in our place, with the understanding that heaven will be our home if we repent and ask him into our hearts as Savior and Lord of our lives.
So, Merry Christmas everyone, as you celebrate the birth of the Christ child.
Sharon I. Rideout
Hermon
Elaine, dear, there is NOTHING more “unholy” than “people of faith” such as yourself and your desire to harm others.
I’ve emailed Kim and thanked her for her cooperation, respect, and support through this time of great positive change! I suggest everyone do the same to counter all of the sour, angst-filled email she’s likely to get as a result of this.
Me too !!
Bravo.
Because our place or work are closed, Its not like they are open and we just don’t show up.
Elaine, town clerks, and other local and state officials, are bound my local, state, and federal laws, not by a 2-3000 year old book of fiction.
Thomas Bonner, the Rwanda murders were state sanctioned gangs against mostly unarmed women and children. It is not comparable to a single individual with a semi-automatic attacking children in a closed environment. In addition, a machete requires close contact as opposed to long range attacks from a gun. It gives the victim a better chance at survival, as in the case of the 22 children attacked in China the same day. None died (at last report) and the perpetrator was captured alive.
I do agree with your comments on the state of the care of the mentally ill.
Google the Bath school disaster.
That’s interesting, but not really relevant to what I said. I think it would be much more difficult for someone to get dynamite today, and it was an explosive weapon making it easy to affect people who were not close, as would be necessary with just a machete.
I believe the point is that guns were not neccessary to commit mass murders. I believe in the internet age that someone could find the means to build their own bombs.
Do you honestly think that your average 1st grade teacher and her students are prepared to defend themselves from a determined healthy male armed with a machete, hatchet, knife, sword, etc.?
Please don’t bring up the case in China with the knife attack. If that guy wanted to kill, he would have at least succeded in one of the stabbings or slashings.
A “gun free zone” is nothing more than a government backed guarantee that there will be little (usually none whatsoever) resistance to bad guys. Think about it, a large (usually enclosed) crowd of prey that won’t fight back would be a dream for any four legged predator, same with two legged predators.
There would most likely be less deaths from a machete or knife attack since the perpetrator would have to get close to each individual. With a gun, or dynamite, they can kill from a distance. I do not believe a teacher armed with a gun would be very effective against a determined attacker. You made my case in your statement ‘he would have at least succeeded in one of the stabbings or slashings.” One is considerably less than 26, and that was my point, less chance (fewer) of people being killed by a knife or machete.
Ms. Graham: how is the SSM law somehow a “disrepectful” law? It may run counter to your religious beliefs, but it is a law of a secular government. I wonder if you supported Blue Laws, which were “disrespectful” to other faiths. Should mixed-race marriages have remained outlawed because they “disrepected” some beliefs?
The laws of my church are holy. The laws of my state are neither holy nor unholy.
I’m curious to know what your feeling would be if the state allowed the murder of children. Would you still say the law of the state is neither holy nor unholy? The state used to allow slavery. Was that neither holy nor unholy? The state used to promote sterilization of blacks. What is your feeling about that? My point is this: human beings should always be considered sacred. Any departure from this puts us all at risk for mistreatment by the state. If history has any lesson to teach, this certainly has to be one of them.
How ironic. You may think your strawmen are ridiculous, but in point of fact the pro-slavery South used the Bible and Christianity to justify their use of slaves, and the anti-segregation dixiecrats used the Bible to justify the segregation of the races in their society.
I agree that we should recognize each others humanity— the abolition of slavery, the ending of segregation, and the acceptance of marriage equality are all aligned with that ideal.
The fact some people use the bible as justification for injustice is besides the point here. The philosophy and religion that promotes the stature of human beings does much to protect it. When these fail for some reason or other, you end up with utter disrespect of humanity as what happened , for example, in Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, and Rwanda not too long ago.
If the state allowed the murder of children or slavery, it still would be neither holy nor unholy. While the fortifcation to solve such things could be found in a holy book, the solutions should not.
Yet the Bible is FULL of Holy edicts that advocate the murder of children…
Illiterate irony is the most ironic irony of all !
Republicans across the country made voting harder with only the myth of voter fraud and no real evidence, now with several mass shootings in the past few years, they’re going to tell us now is not the time to make obtaining guns harder?
Or tell us it is really a mental health issue.
Exactly. Like they ever cared about “mental health” until it became a means of blocking a conversation about guns.
Mental illness is real and serious and we need better mental health services. I know you agree. As for Adam Lanza, he may have had aspergers but that does not usually lead to violence. It seems there was alot more wrong in that household.The mother seemed delusional with mental health issues of her own. He methodically planned out this bloodbath and in fact planned to kill more. He was very capable of thinking it all out, damaging his computer hard drives,etc. How mentally defective was he, or was he always catered to, everything was about him, no empathy whatsoever. Maybe he was evil, what do you think? I don’t believe that mental illness is an excuse for bad behavior anyway.
He was a “loser” in his social life….he virtually had none. No one knew him in recent yrs. He was failing at most everything in his life. It seems this happens with so many of these recent mass killers. Nothing is going right for them, they find slights and grudges everywhere (in their minds) …..the only control they have is to make others pay for their grudges, rage, paranoia. David Brooks calls them the “injustice collectors”. That is all they see. They are in their own little black tunnel. He finally was in control…..Lanza. He shot his mother in the face while she was sleeping and then went to an elementary and shot defenseless, mostly very young children, and the teachers who were trying to shield them. This is an individual who was more than mentally ill.
I know mental health is a real issue, but my problem is that people are using the “mental health” issue as a means of blocking a discussion about guns. The same people who suddenly care about “mental health” now, didn’t care about it one bit before this happened. Now they’re pretending they care so they can stop new legislation on guns because that’s what they REALLY care about.
I understand /understood your point and agree.
Just as the republicans cared so little about security at foreign embassies and consulates that they cut funding 3 years in a row. Now they are concerned about it enough to blame Obama.
Excellent point!
So why was mommy dearest looking to involuntary commit dear son if he didn’t have mental health issues?
Jim Alciere- With over 300 million guns already in the hands of American citizens, where do you suggest we aim that jerking knee?
Thomas Bonner- From what I have read so far, that kid’s mother was in complete denial and protection mode. All the psychiatric care in the world would not help if the kid isn’t exposed to it. The moral of this story is don’t introduce your deranged kid to firearms, period. He could end up shooting a bunch of little kids someday.
Sharon I. Rideout- MERRY CHRISTMAS to you too!
Well, you know, we could start with the ammunition…
There’s no good reason to permit people to buy and use military assault type bullets that are specifically designed to kill people by traveling 3 times farther (by increasing their weight with tungsten and other environmentally irresponsible and toxic metals), and that are designed specifically to fragment upon impact.
Tungsten is more dense than lead but it, unlike lead, is environmentally responsible.
Elaine, God Bless you and remember the words of Christ ‘Love each other as I have loved you’. And the words of God, I have placed every person of power in power and those who do not respect them do not respect me’. I am sure you do not believe that God put Hitler in power so then you cant believe every word of the Bible is fact. But continue to judge me but I will not judge you. However, I do know some things.
The Jews are God’s chosen people. They celebrate Chanukah this time of year. Because I am not sure who is Jewish and who is not I say Happy Holidays and peace to all. Imagine, giving a damn about how it is said after all the horrible things that have just happened. You really need to get your priorities straight lady. God Bless and keep you and soften your heart to His children.
Excellent, excellent comments by you. I also am mindful of the other faiths , so do not automatically assume that Christmas means the same thing for all.
Sharon Rideout sure does need to get her priorities straight. I am sure she is also against other human beings being able to marry , something she can do without fighting for it. She always sounds hard and cold.
Elaine Graham, is Santa bringing you more sour grapes for X-Mas this year?
It’s pretty sleazy to ask readers to harass a public official for daring to uphold the laws around civil marriage. This person did not publicly take a stand for gay marriage, yet you are seeking to demonize them for not condemning it?
I’m glad the majority of Mainers aren’t as obsessively hateful as you seem to be.
Sharon I. Rideout–Merry Christmas to you!
You know what’s funny though? According to the best figuring of biblical historians, Jesus was actually born sometime in September. The holy church moved the date to December so they could usurp the traditional solstice celebration that everyone enjoyed…….So, Happy Solstice too!
did you throw the baby out with the bathwater, too?
Hi again Schmid. Now I have a question for you like you had for me above. Well actually you had several so I will keep it short.
I have heard a lot of things about Christmas, you know the Christ Child being born in a stable, the star in the east,even the Three Wisemen but when did anyone mention anything about throwing out the Baby Jesus with the bath water? I think you are just making that up Schmid. And if you are just making it up Schmid I find that to be very disrespectful, unholy and unnatural as well.
I think you are too logical for him.
He may have been born in a cave. Wood was kind of scarce so why waste it on a stable?
Is your religious belief so fragile that the truth of why we celebrate Christmas during the Winter Solstice is threatening to you?
I’m absolutely not telling you to celebrate anything but what you want to at this time of year. But please don’t pretend that Christians are the only ones who have a right to celebrate during this holiday season, or that we are somehow denigrating your religion by pointing out the true, older reason for the season.
You attribute the December date for the celebration of Christmas to the Church’s effort to “usurp the traditional solstice celebration”. A source I just read says the move in the 4th century to the December date was meant to coincide with the ending of the week-long period of lawlessness called the Saturnalia allowed by the Romans. The Church adopted the date hoping to take in and convert the pagan masses with it. In doing so it met with some success. That was a good thing since it led to the gradual elimination of Saturnalia that often proved to be a very violent period.
It didn’t hurt when the Northern Europeans were being converted. Because of short winter days, they observed the solstice.
Actually, I’ve heard several theories on the date of Christ’s birth. I’m not Catholic, but I think the day of immaculate conception just occurred. That would indicate a September birth. However, other scholars have pointed out that shepherds would have been out in the fields in the Springtime so that would indicate a Sp[ring birth.
Sharon I. Rideout, I am amused and puzzled by people who seem to be so perpetually outraged by life that they can even find fault in how other people wish them well.
Happy Holidays to everyone, whether you celebrate Chanukah, Christmas, the Winter Solstice, or even Kwanzaa. I’m sure some here will roll their eyes that I included all of these in my wishes…. to you I ask, why be so cynical? Why is it so difficult to accept random kind wishes from strangers at this time of year?
I think those who find outrage over “happy holidays” are missing the true spirit of the season.
You forgot the FSM (flying spaghetti monster) !!
May His Starch be Upon Thee…
RAmen.
Thank you and happy pasta to you and yours !!
Fair enough, if you celebrate Holiday, Happy Holiday to you!
Pastafarians are outraged ……… OUTRAGED ……. that you have not included the December celebration of the FSM and his noodley appendages in your list of holy days. My panties are most certainly in a major twist.
I’m just glad no one brought up Festivus :P
My response to “Happy Holiday” during the Christmas season is “Merry Christmas”. While I don’t have a problem with the former expression, I don’t think its’ appropriate for employers to require their workers to greet the public with the sanitized version “Happy Holiday”. After all, the season is mainly about Christmas, not about being inclusive for political reasons.
Not everyone is christian, GET OVER IT!
Like talking to a stone wall.
oh but I like to push it’s buttons (:0P
Good for you. Happy Holidays wharrgarbl!
I don’t think it’s appropriate to require workers to use either.
Holiday Season is more accurate than Christmas season.
Elaine Graham: I’m sure you will appreciate everyone contacting you to discuss all your concerns regarding the ‘unholy law’ of people you don’t even know who want to get married: Elaine Graham- 690 Holley Rd Farmington, Maine 04938-5255- (home) 207-778-2364…..and while you’re at it after 70 you can take free classes at the University of Maine (UMF) I suggest you take a class on CIVIL LAW and perhaps you can come to comprehend the difference between the two….this country’s legal system follows civil law NOT holy law…….try again old girl.
Ps. I emailed Kim in support of Kim and her respect of our fellow citizens who want to get married.
I don’t think I would want to be Elaine’s mail delivery person.
I think she is one of those people you mentioned last evening when I said who would not like jolly old St. Nick….remember? Do Sharon and Elaine eat a lot of sour grapes and sour candy, do you think ?!
I think there are just some people in this life who are never happy unless they have their panties twisted in a wad about something all the time…and these two ‘ladies’ fit the bill.
On November 6, 2012 an election was held in the State of Maine. The question of allowing same sex marriage was one of the ballot questions. The measure received the majority of votes cast by those voting and is now law in The State of Maine. Perhaps this law at some future date may be over turned at the polls by the people. I seriously doubt that it will. I liken it to trying to put toothpaste back in the tube, it may be possible but highly unlikely. The law is just that a law. It is not a disrepectful law or an unholy law. The statement by the President of the Maine Town Clerks Association did not say that it was in support of the law or opposed to the law. Rather it was indicated that the law would be respected as all laws should be. To attempt to mount what amounts to a personal crusade against an individual for saying that the law, any law, should be respected is wrong. If you do not like a law then work constructively to change it. But do not attack someone simply because they said to respect the law.
Maybe you have forgotten, but there was an election a few years ago that had an opposite outcome, with a majority of voters voting AGAINST SSM. And in the minds of many, many people, it IS a disrespectful and unholy, and also unnatural law. There should be no special arrangements made by towns to open above normal hours to satisfy this abomination. Are we paying overtime to people with our tax money to be open above and beyond normal town office hours? Is there undue pressure being put on town employees to work these hours? There was no need for the president of the ME town clerks assoc to make this statement. Work to change this is certainly in the works.
…and The rest of us will continue to work hard to minimize the malignant influence of judgmental people who perpetually seek vengeance…
Marriage is a civil law. Marriage licenses come from the state not the church.
Hey schmid I’m getting on in years but my memory serves me pretty well so I haven’t forgotten the election of a few years ago. Hell I can even remember when people were voting against blacks marrying whites. I even remember back in the 50’s people voted to put fluoride in the water. I remember Ike winning twice, Kennedy, Johnson and every other election as well. But from the way I understand things is that the issues or people , whatever the case maybe, that win the most recent election are the winners. Now like I told Elaine in another post if you don’t like the law you are free to try and change it and I wish you the best of luck with that if it is what you decide to do. However for now same sex marriage is legal in The State of Maine. Don’t you just love it? It kinds of adds a whole new meaning to all men are created equal doesn’t it Schmid? Now as far as your question about town clerks is concerned. As far as I am concerned if they work they should get paid. Do you work for free Schmid? You would have to ask the individual clerks and those who work in their offices if undue pressure was applied, but I haven’t read or heard anything about town clerks being forced at gunpoint to work or anything like that. Have you Schmid? All the president of the Maine Town Clerks Association said was that they would respect the law. Do you have a problem with people respecting the law Schmid? I don’t. I have to admit that there are a few I wished didn’t exist, but they do so I respect them. You say in the minds of many many people the law is disrespectful, unholy and unnatural and I am sure you are 100 percent correct in that assessment. Only problem is Schmid is that it is the law and until it is changed that is just the way it is. Are you asking all these questions Schmid because you and someone of the same sex are planning on getting married soon? If that’s the case I am sure that when you and your same sex partner go to the Town Clerk”s office to get your marriage license they could answer all those really good questions for you. .
Oh my….
Is it wrong to open town offices late or on Saturday so working people can register their vehicles and pay the excise tax? It is called accommodating the needs of the community.
Yes, commerce…..business. Imagine that!
You know Maine, Open for Business …
I would love more time with my town office – they are only open on Mondays and Thursdays………….so I’m with you, I’m fairly certain there wouldn’t be any overtime involved :)
It will not be overturned. It would be the wrong thing if it was. No, look at other hard won struggles. Once the right thing happens, it is done, and life goes on. That does not mean there won’t be other injustices to overcome.
Mrs Graham We as Christians are no longer bound by law, The Christ came to abolish the law and Upon His sacrifice at Calvary a new period of Grace came to earth.This time of year is a good time to remember That our Savior did not just die for our sins but also to bring a time of Grace not judgement that comes later..It is not our place to judge others lest we bring the same type of judgment on to ourselves.Remember let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone.I don’t know about you but I have a hard enough time minding my own walk.
“We as Christians are no longer bound by law, The Christ came to abolish the law…”
Christ would disagree with you: “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to fulfill them. I assure you, until heaven and earth disappear, even the smallest detail of God’s law will remain until its purpose is achieved” (Matthew 5:17-19).
So you do follow old testament laws?
U.S. Constitution.
There goes the shellfish industry.
Is this in English?
Well I could read it……
Is what in english.
Bohdan,
I can accept the tax rates that we had under Clinton. IF you are willing to accept the spending levels as a percentage of GDP we had then as well. Then government spending accounted for about 20% of GDP. Today it is around 40% of GDP.
If you are unwilling to accept that then your whole premise is bogus.
If we’re going to compare GDP percentages, than let’s also take a cold hard look at how much health care has gone up as a percentage of the GDP too – as well as imported goods !
Times sure do change…
No matter how the number is arrived at it is still far too large to have a good self-sustaining economy.
Which number ? Imports or health care ?
Elaine, the law is the law. Live with it. If your town doesn’t open on weekends you don’t need to in my opinion. Just treat people like people and get on with it.
Cheers!
Sorry. Won’t work this time. Pointing the finger at mental illness is a way of circumventing, sweeping under the rug, or just plain avoiding the discussion about why guns. That is exactly what needs to be examined. Until we confront our obsession, might I say addiction, to guns we will talk around the real issue. A gun is a weapon whose sole purpose it to kill or maim. To need or desire a gun is pathological. We need to question deeply the heritage we have inherited that says guns have a part in an enlightened civilization.
The thing is momma as evidenced by these events we are not an enlightened society. I don’t think there is one. Our planet is forever on the edge.
I was a little contemplative about the the whole massacre today and could not for the life of me recall an event in my childhood that compares with what happened in Newtown. I was trying to think of the things that have changed from then til now that would account for such a thing. We had plenty of guns around then. If fact probably more as a percentage of the population with all the hunters that were around. Never was there anything like this. What changed? Any input?
Not too long ago it was not uncommon for kids to have guns in their cars (in the school parking lot) or even leaving them in the principals office. Heck, prior to 1934, a child could order a belt fed machine gun through the mail. Mass shootings then versus now?
You know, you are right. I can remember HS kids with gun racks that as soon school was out headed for the woods to hunt.
But they were not glamorized high output weapons.
And who is doing the “glamorizing”? Hollywood? TV?
And who pays to go see those movies. The responsibility for the glamorizing resides in each of us.
It takes inner discipline, will power….rejecting the violence. You are right….no one forces us to watch anything. One can turn it off, for the most part. (for instance, on a different level…..I am not interested in pornographic videos,etc. etc. and would never have any interest in watching it; yet it is there for those who are interested in it. Should it be banned? Of course not. And, I am not tieing that to what led Adam Lanza to murder. Somehow, I don’t think pornographic images are what he was interested in.)
If people are interested in watching violence (and the big bucks), it is going to continue on , unabated. Yes, there should be a choice and freedom to watch the movies and videos one wants. Not saying otherwise. And it goes back to how they affect different people different ways.
I believe the way Adam Lanza lived (some of his mother’s choices,etc.) built up and tragically, led to the horror he caused. I believe there was evil in him. I don’t think his “issues” were dealt with in an appropriate way at all. However, he is to blame for the deaths of all those innocent people. It is human to hope he pays for what he did. Taking his life….no, that is not paying.
Do we really need to see exploding heads to know a person died?
I realize that black and white pictures might leave something to be desired today, but I really don’t think all that much has changed in firearm advertizing.
Google the Bath school disaster of 1927.
Not the kind of guns that are around today when we were children. And, it was the day of Leave it to Beaver although there was Davy Crockett taming the wild frontier with his rifle and Dale Evans taking on the bad guys…. okay, okay we had all that going on. So we grew up on the notion that the good guys have guns to take care of the bad guys. And when we played cowboys and indians we were shooting each other up. The American pysche is just plain brainwashed with a love of guns and a love of violence. Not a good combination for shaping the minds of our young. I had to shake my head when I read about the man who shot off 50 rounds in a mall parking lot “to relieve stress”. So I am not sure anything has changed except the availability and easy access to weapons of mass destruction. What about you?
Semi-automatics have been around since WWII/Korea and Vietnam.
M1 Garand
M1 Carbine
1911A1
M14
M16/AR15
As a society we have limited access to mental health screenings and care. The level of violence in movies has changed dramatically over the past 30 years. Compare the movie Patton (1970) to Saving Private Ryan (1998) and then toss in the very graphic and popular computer and video games.
War movies SHOULD be explicit. John Wayne was a perpetual hoax that sent many to war thinking they were going to a frat house. To glorify it via video games and neutralize the sensitivities of our youth is criminal.
“m” rated games are for adults. if your child is playing an “m” rated game and having their “sensitivities neutralized”, you have no one to blame but yourself. if an adult cannot differentiate between the fantasy of a video game and reality, then that is mental illness and needs to be treated. this blaming movies and video games stinks of the scapegoating heavy metal took in decades past. people need to find tangible reasons where sometimes there are none, or they want anything to blame but themselves.
You’re asking for discipline in the home. There is none. Our shooter would have been given a time out.
Any child who can read a book or listen to a bed time story know the difference between real and pretend. I don’t think kids who aren’t phased by violence in video games and movies are desensitized, I think they just haven’t seen real violence.
Desensitization in this society and so many reasons for it. Video games (violent) will affect people differently…..will affect an empathetic, mentally stable person differently than one who is otherwise.
We live in a civil society…we need to get along with others. If at all possible, reducing violence in the country and world can only be looked at as a laudable and necessary goal.
Prior to 1934, it was legal to order a belt fed machine gun through the mail. Prior to 1968, there were no mandatory background checks or “prohibited persons”. It used to be common place for soldiers to bring home their service weapons (probably against regulations) and captured enemy weapons.
Cheesy, I found the answer. It started in 1977. That is why we did not see what we witness now. I found the answer here: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2012/12/jeffrey-toobin-second-amendment.html
Probably the biggest thing that has changed is that our parents brought us up to respect other people. We used to call adults Mr. or Mrs Jones or Smith or whatever the name might have been. We were taught that we had to obey the rules. If you didn’t obey the rules in school you got sent to the Principal’s office which was the second worst thing that could happen to you. The first worst thing that could happen to you happened just after you handed the note from the Principal to your Dad Now if a kid gets sent home with a note from the Principal the next thing you know is that the teacher and Principal are being sued by the kids parents for hurting their darling’s feelings. When we were kids we used to shoot guns at the kids we were playing with but they were cap pistols or water pistols It used to be that if your name got in the paper for doing something wrong, even speeding you felt shame. Now if a kid gets his name in the paper for doing something wrong he is looked up to by his peers.
I know you don’t care much for facts that get in the way of your opinion, but as a whole the violent crime rate is down compared to decades past. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/tables/viortrdtab.cfm
If we want a real discussion, why don’t we talk about how the vast majority of these mass shooting occur in “gun free zones”?
Once again deflecting away from the real issue. Look at us. Defending the use of guns in the name of hobby, sport, and the last one…. safety. That last one is the most laughable.
If, God forbid, Joe Parolee is high on PCP and kicking in your door in the middle of the night, there will be nothing to laugh about.
Different scenario.
I prefer Senator Lieberman’s approach to this topic which is a comprehensive look at:
Gun Control
Access to Mental Health (his mother was in the process of trying to involuntarily committing him according to at least two reports)
Violent video games (several reports say he “played” them and computer games regularly)
Violent movies
It is more than one thing and to treat one symptom while ignoring the rest means you do not cure the disease.
Yes, agreed.
you forgot to blame marilyn manson, too.
The only person I “blame” is the person that pulled the trigger.
Senator Lieberman has an approach I agree with. It’s not just one thing.
Sorry if you cannot or refuse to see that.
comprehensive approach, good. using the tired old whipping boys of the entertainment industry, bad. this stinks of scapegoating.
From all reports the shooter was a gamer and played violent games. If we are going to look at gun control, access to mental health screening/care we need to look at EVERYTHING he was involved with and if that includes gaming so be it.
I know this is just a rehash of another thread, though Lieberman is a dangerous man, who would use censorship to further his agenda.
Lieberman is no more or less “dangerous” then any other Senator out there. At least he can sit down and talk about issues rather than shout across the room or worse, refuse to talk or sit down with the other side.
Video game and TV violence has been his “thing” for a long time, far before this tragedy. Much of the game rating legislation is of his doing – and that is as far as it should go.
His past pushes to allow the government to censor internet content ala China, makes me very suspicious of his motivations. In some ways, he is very reasonable, in others, I find him to be very dangerous.
Look if it is shown that the shooter spent a large amount of his “free” time playing violent video games and computer games it needs to be looked at to see if there is any link between his gaming and the events of last Friday. I know you don’t like the thought of it but we need to look at ALL potential causes and contributing factors.
What if he spent a large amount of time fishing?
When it comes to mass murderers, serial killers and other assorted sociopaths, it always comes back to mental issues. Perhaps not insanity, but mental issues.
It’s not the examination of the “why”s that worry me, it’s what the proposed “cures” coming down the pike might be.
It’s not guns or violent video games/movies. I think the issue is that this individual clearly wasn’t taught the value of life.
I agree. I don’t know if it’s even a lack of teaching. Sociopaths brains are simply wired differently. Where empathy, compassion and value of life should be, is a void.
“What if he spent a large amount of time fishing?”
Last time I checked hooks, monofilament line, spools and poles were not the chosen tools for mass murders.
~~~~~
“When it comes to mass murderers, serial killers and other assorted sociopaths, it always comes back to mental issues. Perhaps not insanity, but mental issues.”
Agreed. But if that mentally unstable person used an extremely violent game to hone their shooting skills because it was cheaper than purchasing bullets that is a problem that needs addressing.
At one time you could use Microsoft Flight Simulator as part of learning to fly a small plane. It was used in flight school as part of ground training. That’s how realistic it was.
~~~~~
“It’s not the examination of the “why”s that worry me, it’s what the proposed “cures” coming down the pike might be.”
Sorry but if it is demonstrated that it contributed to the killing spree last Friday then it was part of the problem and we need to find a solution.
No one has committed mass murder with a fishing pole that I am aware of, no. Nor have they with a video game controller. Although, now that you bring up the flight simulator – I understand the future of warfare will become more and more like video games – talk about a detachment from reality – remote controlling a drone with a joystick thousands of miles away and unleashing missiles at targets they think are bad guys on a screen? Lieberman loves that sort of thing by the way.
My point was that the correlation can be made between games, hobbies, or even these psychos diets. If they all ate wheaties the morning they went on rampages…should we ban wheaties?
As you said – maybe .1% of people who play games can’t tell the difference between game and reality. I guarantee you more than .1% of guns in this country are used to commit murder – but you’ve already stated that banning guns certainly isn’t the answer and rightfully so. Right? Seeing the inconsistency?
“No one has committed mass murder with a fishing pole that I am aware of, no.”
Good we agree on something.
~~~~~
“Nor have they with a video game controller.”
Please go back and read what I wrote because you obviously missed a few words.
Never said any killed anyone with a video game controller. What I said was “if that mentally unstable person used an extremely violent game to hone their shooting skills because it was cheaper than purchasing bullets that is a problem that needs addressing.”
~~~~~
“Although, now that you bring up the flight simulator – I understand the future of warfare will become more and more like video games – talk about a detachment from reality – remote controlling a drone with a joystick thousands of miles away and unleashing missiles at targets they think are bad guys on a screen?”
Nice job at distracting and presenting a smokescreen. One has to do with the other. We are talking about a shooter that is said to have sent hours and hours of free time playing violent video games. Did they have an impact on his mind? Don’t know but to ignore that the possibility exist is to bury your head in the sand.
~~~~~
“Lieberman loves that sort of thing by the way.”
Personally I don’t care if Senator Lieberman flies on a broomstick and casts spells. He has a proposal that makes sense and that plan is to look at all potential aspects of this mass murder. If you lose access to a game that has exploding heads and rape we just might become a better society.
~~~~~
“My point was that the correlation can be made between games, hobbies, or even these psychos diets. If they all ate wheaties the morning they went on rampages…should we ban wheaties?”
You are afraid of what might be shown.
~~~~~
“As you said – maybe .1% of people who play games can’t tell the
difference between game and reality. I guarantee you more than .1% of guns in this country are used to commit murder – but you’ve already stated that banning guns certainly isn’t the answer and rightfully so.”
Guess you haven’t seen my other post. I am more then willing to look at everything. I am not afraid of what might be shown. I already know that access to “assault weapons” is a done deal. It’s really to bad because no one has been able to define an assault weapon yet or if they can have refused to do so.
~~~~~
“Right? Seeing the inconsistency?”
No and No. You are just afraid of losing a game. You are putting access to a game above a life. Right? See the inconsistency?
No attempt at smokescreen, just a sidebar (that the flight simulator made me think of.)
Some common sense regulation is acceptable, such as tightening enforcement on selling violent games to minors and closing the gun show loophole as discussed. Though censorship on adult entertainment and true infringement on 2nd amendment rights is not something I would get behind, ever. Trading in freedoms for false security, is not an acceptable deal.
“if that mentally unstable person used an extremely violent game to
hone their shooting skills because it was cheaper than purchasing
bullets that is a problem that needs addressing.”
this statement is ludicrous. have you ever even played a “violent” video game? i can tell you with 100% certainty that playing a first person shooter will in no way translate to skills with an actual weapon. the military uses these games to teach tactics and how to fight as a team, not to improve marksmanship / use a weapon. i’ve played legend of zelda for nearly thirty years now, by your logic i should be a master swordsman by now. besides, there have been numerous studies done on this already; its all misdirection from the real issues.
Not a master swordsman yet? :D
I still play Tecmo Superbowl, and I think I’m almost finally ready for my tryout with the Patriots. I’ve got the zig zag run down, no ones gonna tackle me. ;)
The solution won’t be implemented because the tax payers don’t want to foot the bill for comprehensive mental health care. We have been dismanteling in patient care in this country for 60 years. Even those who have demonstrated a violent side aren’t kept in hospitals. That is if they can ever get into a hospital.
I see the problem on a first hand basis almost everyday. We do a horrible job with people with mental health issues and substance abuse issues.
If mental illness is not a factor in gun violence and talking about mental illness is simply an unnecessary waste of time to circumvent a discussion about gun control why have you chosen ‘obsession’, ‘addiction’ ‘pathological’ and “question heritage” to address the need for gun control. These are the very words indicating mental illness.
All of the rampage shooters in the last 4 years were known to have been mentally disturbed and in need of help that they never received. We have cut and cut and cut funding for mental health facilities, resources, education, research and clinics in the interests of lowering taxes. As a consequence people can not identify those who need help and even if they can there are so few facilities and resources available that help never comes.
There would be no rampage shooting if everybody were completely rational. We need to address mental health. Rampage shooters would be unable to wreck as much violence if high capacity, semi-automatic weapons were not so readily available. We need to address gun control.
In 1927, a man killed 44 people, in a school, with explosives. In 1997, two convicted felons bought body armor and fully automatic rifles through the black market (this was in California during the “assault weapons ban”). These people don’t care about laws.
You are saying that because two people used bombs instead of guns we can’t do anything about rampage killings with assault weapons?
I’m saying that where there’s a will, there’s a way. Timothy McVeigh used fertilizer and killed far more people than these mass shooters, same with the 1927 Bath Disaster. If a criminal wants a gun, he can get one illegally, and if he chooses not to do that, he could easily procure homemade explosives or incendiarys.
Jim, if you want more gun control, move to Chicago, you know, the city that averages about 400 murders a year.
Sharon Rideout: that is why YOU celebrate Christmas. I celebrate a secular holiday filled with jolly men in red suits and elves and lit trees and presents and cookies. Not a baby jesus in sight at my house. Maybe I’ve stuck to all the pagan foundations of the solstice, but these are the traditions that speak to me, and I’m not going to be told what the “right” way to celebrate is.
then you are not celebrating Christmas, for the true meaning is to celebrate the birth of Christ…regardless of what day those who would like to put a damper on the particular day. And may I remind you that “holiday” is actually a version of “HOLY DAY”
…and Holy Days existed LONG before Christianity…
You don’t get to dictate to people what their Holy Days are and are not; maybe you’d be happier living somewhere where the clerics make the laws – like Iraq !
Something tells me Schmid would like to be the one to say what the laws are. Just imagine Ayatollah Schmidlap
LOL @ Ayatollah Schmidiap. Yup, I’d say that was about right.
So says you. Fortunately, there are no Christmas police to enforce one person’s vision of what the day means. Jesus was a good dude by all accounts, but his birth is not why I participate. To each their own!
It must be exhausting to be you, schmidlap. Having to examine everything everyone else is doing in their lives to see if your fevered ego is threatened.
Personally, I am fine with people celebrating Christmas for whatever reasons they want! And I certainly don’t take offense when someone wishes me Happy Holidays, since they are wishing me well.
So who appointed you chairman in charge to determining the correct way to celebrate Christmas?
How does proper observance of good will subvert the Christian Holiday?
Bohdan, the Bush tax cuts gave significant cuts to the middle class. A family of four paid federal tax of $1,924 in 2001. In 2010 they received a check for $2,523 for a cut of $4,447. There have been numerous other cuts, the stimulus $300 & $600 rebates in 2008, the making work pay credits which turned in to the 2% cut in FICA (sorry state workers and teachers, don’t know why this administration cut you out). We have had first time homeowners credits, cash for clunkers, education credits, weatherization credits etc etc etc, The economy must be pretty stimulated by now? Where are the results you talk about?
The economy is improving, versus continuing the second worst decline in American history…
You can certainly PRETEND that NOTHING we’ve done has contributed to this gradual improvement, and the prevention of a continuing spiral downward, but many people argue that things haven’t improved quicker specifically because the government hasn’t done more; like it did during the Great Depression. Where are the mega projects, the investment in the building of infrastructure, the creation of effective social programs, like there were during the Depression ?
If you don’t see results you need to get out more, and read a little history – as opposed to listening primarily to talk radio and Faux Newz….
The Bush tax cuts gave significant cuts to all. The revenue increased significantly and the unemployment decreased after 2003 through 2008. You can pretend nothing we did contributed to this improvement after the downward spiral after the bust of the dot.com boom and 911. The CBO says allowing any portion of the tax cut expire will result in the loss of jobs. Warren Buffett says the increased taxes for the rich is good for the morale of the middle class except if you are part of the 200,000 the CBO estimates will lose their jobs.
Aha, support for my contention that the 2nd amendment does NOT give you the right to bear arms: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2012/12/jeffrey-toobin-second-amendment.html
Very interesting….to bad you didn’t read it.
“The battle over gun control is not just one of individual votes in
Congress, but of a continuing clash of ideas, backed by political power.
In other words, the law of the Second Amendment is not settled; no law,
not even the Constitution, ever is.”
Nothing new. You cannot yell “fire” in a crowded theater. You cannot slander someone. Gun rights have been limited in the past. In Maine I need a concealed weapons permit to carry a concealed weapon. I have to be 21 to purchase a handgun.
Oh and it’s one persons opinion in this case Jeffrey Toobin
Why do you argue points that no one made? Where did Kayak act like the article was more than just one person’s opinion?
She made a point. I made a counterpoint. She seems to have no issue and neither should you.
Exactly my point. How we interpret the constitution changes with time. It is time for a change. Well, it is two persons’ opinion. Probably more. It is opinions that reach a critical mass that creates change.
I believe 9 wise jurists will have the final day on any legislation, etc…enacted.
Thankfully we do not operate in regards to law and rights based on one opinion…..
At least two opinions. Mine and his. And from what I am hearing more and more are questioning the 2nd amendment. Here is one: http://theweek.com/article/index/237982/is-the-second-amendment-obsolete
I wonder if the 2nd Amendment is deemed “obsolete” which of the remaining Bill of Rights will be next?
Well, we have NDAA and the “Patriot” Act…………
Elaine Graham . .no . .the people have spoken to end the kind of cruel inequality that should not be a part of our culture! Unholy . .really? Not allowing people to be who they really are . . . to openly celebrate and express their love to the world . .to pursue their own vision of happiness. Now THAT . . is reprehensible!
Don’t quote the bible . . over the past many centuries, that book could hardly be seen as the purveyor of peace and understanding. Written by men who lived in a time when reading and writing produced much power . . power to control the others that could NOT read and write. That is not the case today and we as a society will not return to the kind of myopic thinking that you envision!
FORWARD!
Well said.
Here is a suggestion: please write to Kim McLaughlin, president of the Maine Town Clerks Association, at kmcLaughlin@oobmaine.com and tell her that she is correct, that town clerks do not get to pick and choose which laws they will respect or not. Support fair and equal treatment. And be nice, and thank her too–I do not envy having to deal with her e-mail inbox today.
In 1962 one woman decided that she would show the Russians that she was a favorable person to be given citizenship in their country, so she came up with the idea of taking prayer out of our schools–Madelyn Murray O’Hare–and you know the rest of the story. She was successful in her quest, but not with gaining Soviet citizenship, much to her dismay, but we as Americans have been dealing with the consequences of a misguided woman and Supreme Court ever since.
THAT kind of ridiculous rhetoric is not based on easily verifiable facts.
Try again !
This time without outright lying about what O’Hare accomplished…
She STOPPED the creeps and fascists from FORCING COMPULSORY Bible readings on kids in public schools. It isn’t yours or anybody else’s right to dictate to school kids what Bible and what religion they should believe in.
Taking prayer and bible reading out of the schools was the right thing to do. I remember when each member of the class had to pick out a biblical passage and read it to the class. After that we repeated the Lord’s Prayer. The class was 25% Jewish. It was a ridiculously stupid and insensitive ritual.
Mr. Bonner certainly makes a more compelling argument than Mr Alciere…why even print that? Completely devoid of substance.
B. Slabyj, J. Aciere, K. Knowlen; Goor letters.
Elaine Graham: this is not a theocracy.
T. Bonner: I agree with the mental health portion.
Thank you Sharon. Merry Christmas to you, also.